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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    Good advice! Thanks! ;)
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    Think there's on in the future?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I wonder, if it was made in 2WD, crash test result would change. I figure it might because the loss of weight, but gas mileage would improve. I know you guys like the AWD, just to make a choice between the two, at least for the sedan. I'd be happy with that.

    I doubt you will ever see a 2WD Legacy again. Subaru's worldwide branding vehicle identity is 99.9% AWD. In Japan they offer a few bottom-feeder Imprezas and tiny 660cc JDM-specific models that are offered in both FWD and AWD, but that's it. Outside of Japan every Subaru sold is AWD.

    Being virtually all AWD is what they known for. It's part of their DNA and a huge part of their marketing. It goes to the core of what a Subaru is all about. I don't expect that to change.

    Offering a FWD alternative will weaken their brand image. Subaru has been saying for years that AWD is the best drive system out there. If they offer FWD, in a way they're saying that what they've been promoting all along may not be true. It's sending mixed signals to their customers. They would be shooting themselves in the foot. Let the other brands offer a variety of drive systems. Being 100% AWD is another braggin' right feature they can sell to the public.

    Bob
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    As prices rise and dino fuel becomes scarce, AWDs will cost $$$. What happens when gasoline prices reach $5? Unless they start using alternative fuels like diesel.

    All 2006 automatic non turbo models EPA mpgs:

    Legacy sedan/wagon: 23/30
    Impreza sedan/wagon: 23/28
    Forester: 23/28
    Outback: 22/28
    Baja: 21/28
    Tribeca: 18/23 premium only

    As of right now, these mpgs aren't bad, but I live in the city and really don't need AWD. People who live in an area that needs AWD, these mpgs are probably the one best you can find (except for the Tribeca).

    Interiors of Subarus could be a little roomier for people who have families. Like the Legacy, with a 93 cu ft interior, is classified as a midsize sedan, but for a growing family of 5 I think would need at least 100 cu ft interior.

    Otherwise I think Subarus are one of the best and original makes out there. There are AWD alternatives though like Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe, Dodge Caliber, Ford Five Hundred, Dodge Magnum, 2006 Toyota Rav4 (which has an optional 3rd row), Honda Pilot (with standard 3rd row for a total of 8 passengers), and others.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    How about if they offered a FWD with standard traction and stablility? This would allow mpgs to rise, would help prevent skidding and keeping it standard like the AWD. ;)
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Subaru in the US almost folded when they tried competing against Toyota, Nissan, and Honda in the 2WD category. They were rescued by AWD and the Outback campaign. It's unlikely they will venture down that path again. Subaru simply does not have the volume to compete in that specific arena. Today's challenge is to retain their niche (and market share) while everyone else is coming out with AWD vehicles.

    MPG should really be compared between like vehicles.

    Jim
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You're missing my point. It's all about marketing and positioning the brand. Subaru has spent a ton of time and money marketing themselves as the only company in the world that's 100% AWD. They're not going to change that.

    Bob
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    OH, O.K. :P :blush:;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru is tiny compared to Honda and Toyota, and can't compete directly with them. Last time they tried they nearly went bankrupt, sales took a nose dive to 100k/year back in 1995.

    Where they'd succeeded is at being a niche player, AWD wagons mostly. The OB and Forester have done quite well and now sales are nearly double that level, selling more profitable cars at that.

    Remember something - common sense does not apply to Subaru. Think about it, they DROP half their lineup (all FWD, Justy, SVX), increase prices dramatically, and sales DOUBLED! :confuse:

    Sure, they could come out with a FWD Legacy, but it would probably still not match the Accord's 26/34 mpg and so the fuel misers would still buy the Honda. They could probably get about 25/31 out of a FWD Legacy, but it would be smaller than the Accord and they have only half as many dealer outlets to sell them from.

    Now, look at it differently. You're shopping for an SUV that gets 16mpg, and suddenly an Outback's mid 20s mpg seems quite reasonable. It is a legit alternative to what most people use SUVs for. Bingo. Jackpot.

    Forester's 23/28 doesn't seem that great? Well guess what? It's best in class, matching the 4WD RAV4 and besting the CR-V, which takes 3rd place. Bingo again. Jackpot #2.

    Those are the models that sold well. FWD Legacys from 1994 and earlier were a disaster Subaru is better off forgetting about.

    A FWD Legacy is less efficient than an Accord.

    An AWD Outback/Forester is more efficient than an Equinox/Vue/Escape. That's why it works.

    -juice
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    Subaru is piggy backing on SUV craze.
    It seems to be ending so what will be the next move?

    Krzys
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    A little late to chime in here but I can tell you that I have a 06 LL Bean Wagon (H6) and have been tracking my mileage since I picked it up at the end of October. overall I am getting 17.396 mpg with the worst being 13.31 and the best 26.06. It is an AT, and I live on Staten Island.

    Hope this helps. Good luck with whatever you decide.

    Mark
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree. At least partially.

    The Vue and Escape have hybrid versions that get hwy milage in the 30's. Yes they cost more $$, but the milage is there. Even a Chevy Tahoe is improving mpg (up to 22 mpg)
    The new GMC/Saturn/Chevy SUV coming out soon is an 8 passanger that is reported to get about 24 or 25 mpg. Its an improvement over the old Trailblazer and 22mpg. I wonder what the hybred Tahoe will get? maybe 24mpg? The RAV4 can get 30mpg and can carry 7 passangers. The v6 4wd RAV gets 28mpg. Size and power wise thats more like a Tribeca.

    Yes most big SUVs are still less than a little Forester, but 4 to 6 mpg isn't a big deal.

    Recent years Subaru has gone more to worse MPG for sake of performance. Look at the turbo models.

    How about a Hybred? or Flex Fuel model? or something that gets slightly better MPG.

    Most (All?) the other companies are showing improvements in MPG. Where is the improvement from Subaru?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The next craze is crossovers, which is sort of what Subaru has been doing all along.

    The products are well positioned, the only question is how much new AWD competition will appear and how will it affect their sales.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Escape hybrid is too pricey. $28 grand plus is too much to pay to save a little fuel, when "normal" models cost $6 grand less.

    Saturn Vue Greenline will be a hit, I predict. The price is right - under $23k. But....we're talking very limited supplies, here. It won't put a dent in anyone's market share.

    The RAV4 that gets 30mpg is FWD. The AWD model in automatic gets the same 23/28 as the Forester auto. The next-gen Forester is coming soon, so we'll see how Subaru responds. The RAV4 is a hit, sales have boomed.

    I think the Forester is competitive. It needs to grow a tad, else people will cross shop with the cheaper Jeep Patriot. The Jeep even LOOKS like a Forester.

    -juice
  • jbrew7jbrew7 Member Posts: 17
    Ok, this may be a stupid question, but what is the general difference between the Outback wagon and Legacy wagon? I know about body style, but what else. Generally, Legacy's do seem to be a lot cheaper. Is that because they are not as good.
    Also, just got a quote from a dealer in Sac saying he will sell for 100 dollars over invoice, plus the rebates for both the 2006 Legacy and Outback wagons. Good deal?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's not a question of one being better than the other. They're aimed at different customers.

    Think of the Outback as a heavy-duty Legacy. The suspension is HD and raised, and it has larger tires. If you travel a lot of bad roads the Outback the better choice. if, however, you prefer great handling, the Legacy is the better choice.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Agreed, and I'll add a few things.

    The OB is pre-wires for trailers, so if you tow that's the way to go.

    You also get the roof rack w/cross bars. Fog lights and that sort of thing. Heated seats are standard on the 06s, as are heated mirrors and wiper de-icer up front.

    So the price is higher but so is content. If you can make use of those things, it's probably worthwhile.

    The Legacy is a better value if you do not need those items.

    -juice
  • shrinermonkeyshrinermonkey Member Posts: 58
    I just got a Legacy Wagon 2.5i SE for invoice -$2000 Rebate from Subaru and 4.9%apr. Salesmen said that they sell 10 times as many Outbacks as just standard Legacy Wagons so they seem ready to deal on them. Invoice for my car said they purchased it in Nov '05 so it was sitting on the lot for a long time. They also gave me a fair price for my 2001 VW Passat in trade. I am really happy with the deal that I got and love the car so far.
  • alysonalyson Member Posts: 3
    I need advice! I am getting "graduation present" from college 2 years later--once I get the car I have to pay for everything else--I am between a Lexus IS 250 or a Subaru Outback Wagon 3.0 (I know, pretty different), I'm moving to San Francisco and will use it mostly for weekend trips to Tahoe, camping, Napa etc. Which car is going to be less expensive, more reliable, last the longest etc in the long run? I've heard great things about both, I worry that since Lexus is a foreign luxury car replacing every little thing can get pricey. (not to mention higher insurance rates)
    Any and all thoughts are welcome!! THANKS.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    Consumer Reports rates Subaru with better than average dependability and is recommended. The Lexus is rated with much better than average dependability and highly recommended.

    You'll save more gas with the Lexus. Following Safety features standard: Braking assist, traction control, stability control.

    More passenger and trunk room with the Subaru and 46 more horses.
  • satire2satire2 Member Posts: 22
    Both are tremendous cars. Both are utterly reliable, but the Lexus may be more reliable. Both will last forever with reasonable care. As mentioned, the Lexus will get a tad better miles per gallon but the Subaru will be zippier and more practical room-wise.

    Drive both. Go with your heart, with the one you love the most.
  • sfotahoesubysfotahoesuby Member Posts: 1
    If you are using the car as a SF->Tahoe transporter, make sure you get an AWD, unless you want to be crawling around in the slush on your hands and knees on a regular basis at CalTrans chain controls. Suby's are waived through.

    Something to consider: if camping is in the mix the Outback will have considerably more cargo space (and also room for skis without having to use a rack). The Outback also is a pretty decent trailhead camper with the seats down in a pinch, key for late night escapes for the city that find you arriving at a trailhead at 2am.

    My cousin has a Lexus IS250 and its nice, but for your purposes, I'd say go Outback.

    Given the deals Subaru is running right now, I'd try to talk your parents into using some of the money they can save vs. the Lexus up front to buy you an extended warranty.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    if high mountain driving is the objective I would pick Outback XT. Turbocharger makes all the difference with attitude.

    Krzys
  • scottmcpheescottmcphee Member Posts: 10
    I was not happy that my brand new 06 Legacy wagon did not have what is now a very common feature "retaining accessory power" that keeps things alive for a while after removing the key. Later I found this very fact had been noted (on Edmunds!).. as a "minus" for the car.

    Long story short: I made a black box module that wires in under the dash to give the car retained accessory power after removing the key for a selectable time (2 to 16 minutes.) Does the job nicely.. It has options for killing accessory power, since I don't like it when opening the door kills power instantly - because often I'm out of the car then realize I need to jump back in and use a power accessory... I made it that when you LOCK the car cuts power. And along these lines, I made it that pressing UNLOCK breathes life into accessory power - the radio comes on and is playing when you hop in which is kind of novel.. but also lets me use other accessories without ever having to put a key in the ignition! .. it powers off after a time, or locking the car again.

    I also found a one-wire way to get power windows to work when Accessory power is on (instead of requiring ignition power to be on).. Also applies to sunroof on wagons.. so now I can use windows during retained power time.

    I've posted the brainpower on doing this elsewhere on another forum, legacygt.com I also offer install kits on a website if you don't want to make your own but buy a complete and tested kit ready to install, with Legacy instructions. Read more about it here
    http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34363

    Cheers
    Scott McPhee
  • audioiaudioi Member Posts: 7
    OK guys, I am thinking of offing my 03 Passat 1.8t that has been a trouble free car and seriously thinking of a New Outback Wagon. I drove the Ltd. with base 4 cyl automatic and find it very good but lacking a bit of zip. Does the 5 speed help?
    Also can anyone tell me of ther fuel mileage with the 2,5 (either trans.)?
    Thanks
    Mike
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,795
    Boy, my '96 must really be a dog because I swear the '06 OB Ltd I test drove felt like it had "zip" to spare. :sick:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm moving to San Francisco and will use it mostly for weekend trips to Tahoe, camping, Napa etc.

    Welcome to the Bay Area in advance! If I look at your statement, it's not even which will be more expensive, but which one will let you do the things you want.

    If you take one trip to Tahoe, you'll notice that the area is crawling with Subarus. While the IS250 is a nice car, it's not going to let you do all the things you want to do. You'll need the AWD, extra ground clearance and cargo space for an active lifestyle.

    When CHP waves you by during chain controls on I-80, you'll be SO glad you're in a Subaru!

    Ken
  • scottmcpheescottmcphee Member Posts: 10
    Do it. Toss the Passat while you can still get value from it. I had to wholesale my 99 Passat wagon, with the same 1.8T engine, after it started having low oil pressure problem. This is a serious issue for VW and the used market has caught on - a design flaw. There is class action law suit on VW for it - you may qualify for a new engine, if yours seizes, but you may not... if you can't show all your oil change receipts at the recommended intervals. Notice this year, VW ditched the 1.8T engine across the line. No surprise... they now sell a 2.0T engine but I won't trust it. I ditched the brand. Let's hope they've improved.

    Anyway, I immediately got a 2.5i Legacy wagon manual transmission across the street (literally) after the VW service tech said, "if you want reliability get a Japanese car". Advice taken. Glad I did so far, it's been 6 months. Got 14,000 km on the Legacy now, the fuel economy has constantly improved now to about 8 l/100km average. This is all a very Canadian way of saying, it's good.. but not as good as you might have got on the 1.8T - for both power and economy. But VW "gas economy" comes at a price.. It costs about $4000 for a new engine after 175,000 km, so I'd call it a false economy.

    Scott
  • jjdatjjdat Member Posts: 3
    I want to install a trailer hitch on my 2006 outback, no
    towing just for bike rack. I looked at several brands on
    e-trailer and downloaded the instructions. Installation
    appears simple with no drilling by using existing holes
    with weldnuts. When I look under my car I see brackets on
    both frame rails where the hitch is to be mounted. Since
    these are'nt mentioned in the instructions that I have read
    I was wondering if these need to be removed for the hitch
    installation. It does'nt look like the hitch would bolt on
    top of these brackets. Anyone have idea about this.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tahoe means snow, and snow means AWD. They will wave you by in a Subaru or stop you to put on chains in the Lexus, if chains even fit. Plus the wagon has more room. No brainer if you ask me.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The manual trans does help, drive it if you thought the auto was a bit slow.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For my '98 Forester I had to remove both tow hooks to install the OE hitch (per Subaru's instructions), so my guess is Yes.

    -juice
  • pcnewmanpcnewman Member Posts: 1
    Hi folks -

    I have a 2000 Legacy GT (5 spd MT) with ~65k miles that displays the exact same characteristics as sfnova's problems: juddering or binding during tight turns when hot. I first suspected CV joints, but boots are fine and no unusual rotational play is evident when the wheels are jacked up.

    I'll try getting a good transmission flush, but I'll bet they'll try to sell me a bunch of new parts. We'll see . . .

    Also, anyone know of an online service manual that includes the manual tranny? I found a great one, but it only covers the automatic.

    Thanks,
    Peter
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If it's a manual, it's not a flush, just a drain and fill. The drain plug is on the bottom of the tranny, a big bolt, 17mm IIRC. About a gallon will drain out. Get it hot so more comes out.

    You fill via the yellow dipstick. I ran a tube down from the engine compartment and then put a funnel on the top of that tube. Poured in just under 4 quarts of 75w90 GL5 gear oil, just until it begins to spill out of the filler hole.

    It's messy so wear gloves and take your time. But overall it's not any harder than changing engine oil.

    -juice
  • sfnovasfnova Member Posts: 4
    Well, it has been a long time since i checked in but i do have new info on the steering difficulties. A friend in Seattle had her Viscous (vicious) Coupling unit replaced for around $800 and the problem is solved. I have had two mechanics take apart the transmission and change the fluid within one week of each other. One guy charged me $165 and the other did it for nothing which was great. Both of them said the problem was most likely in some distinct element of the transmission. One guy called it the viscous coupling unit, the other called it something else.Now i am trying to evaluate two estimates i have to do the work - one for $1400 and the $800. BTW I have been advised to have the clutch replaced at the same time as the original has taken us 115,000 miles. I think i have pinpointed the problem, now i just have to evaluate the mechanics and their estimates. Work is much cheaper in Seattle but I live in VA.
  • bruce3bruce3 Member Posts: 13
    I have had a Legacy GT for 2 years and drive that route 20+ times a year. My wife and I were looking for a car for her and checked out the Lexus IS 250, but bought the ES350 instead. Several things to like about the Legacy over the IS250 - Much more room inside the car - the hump in the Lexus makes it a 4 seater. They Subaru blows the doors off the Lexus in handling and acceleration. While the Lexus 350 is probably its equal, it is RWD and dangerous in the conditions you are planning to drive in. If you are looking for better mileage the regular Legacy is the way to go. Subarus are much easier to get repaired and are cheaper to insure. In Tahoe they are the car of choice among locals and are very easy to get repaired. Oubacks have better snow clearance, and are more utilitarian, ride smoother, but do not handle as well. The Lexus is nicer inside and has better technology.
  • larrycrowelllarrycrowell Member Posts: 33
    I installed a HiddenHitch on my 2005 OB wagon; installation was exactly as directed. A quote: "On the wagon only, remove the forward-most bolt (one per side) on the bracket that is bolted to the underside of the frame at the back of the vehicle." I didn't remove any bracket so I guess the bracket stays.

    I found this job much easier after I completely removed both mufflers rather than just letting them hang.
  • cdqcdq Member Posts: 2
    Just bought my 2006 OB 2.5i wagon less than a week ago and I couldn't be more excited! Champagne gold, automatic, but otherwise bare bones. Still, with all the standard features and Subaru's reputation for quality I'm not sure I could ask for more! (Also, I feel like I got a great deal.)

    I love everything about this car and look forward to a very long term relationship here in Bellingham, WA ((where the car will see much family duty up to Mount Baker (skiing/snowboarding), down to Seattle, and over the Cascade Mountain passes to the in-laws amongst other trips.))Not only is this car a good practical fit on all fronts for our active family of four, but I really love the styling -even more so than the pre-2005 models, which I always coveted.

    I am also stoked to own what has always been portrayed as one of the more reliable cars on the road. And in the event it does need work, it won't cost me an arm and a leg like some other cars. Reassure me this is the case, have I really bought one of the more reliable cars out there?

    Finally, I thought it was really cool to find these Subie message boards. I've also lurked around the Ultimate Subaru Msg board. Got to say, it's kind of addicting to read all the positive feelings and feedback. Makes me even more excited to be a new Subaru owner. Any other resources/sights worth visiting?
  • satire2satire2 Member Posts: 22
    Oh, man, you'll love your car! We have a Legacy 2.5i bare bones except for an automatic, plus an auto Legacy GT. And yes, they are super reliable. We've had good luck with Hondas, too, but we had a bulletproof '95 Outback (the first year, back when it was just a Legacy trim package), a little Impreza wagon, and a Forester, all super cars. Practical yet fun. Have a blast out in WA!
  • skicrazyskicrazy Member Posts: 5
    We're seriously looking at the Outback, Highlander or Rav 4 for our next family car. We want enough room for 4, decent gas mileage, ability to go off road to hiking trails and drive in snow to go sking. Thoughts on which vehicle is best?
    :confuse:
  • nerdnerd Member Posts: 203
    I installed a Draw-tite hitch with similar instructions. The bolt that was removed was replaced with a stronger bolt that came with the hitch. The bracket remained in place. My kit included spacers that were installed at the bolt location where the rubber plug was removed.

    I totally agree with you about completely removing the mufflers. Took me only about 15 minutes to remove both of them. Removing them made the job much easier - allowed me to get everything aligned properly as well as providng good access to get a torque wrench on the bolts.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    ...just until it begins to spill out of the filler hole.

    juice, That is the correct instruction for the diffy, however, the manual tranny has a dipstick and should be filled to the "full" mark. (Just a thought...mine is a 2000 so your instructions may be correct for a '99.)

    The drain is very close to the "Y" of the exhaust pipe. If you get gear oil on the exhaust, it's going to stink until it burns off. Consider shielding the exhaust pipe while draining.

    Jim
  • lascottcalascottca Member Posts: 11
    Also having tough time on which 2007 model to purchase? Question- Why doesn't the outback 2.5i have privacy windows (tinted glass) like the other cars. Is there any way to have them installed. Thanks
  • scottmcpheescottmcphee Member Posts: 10
    Subaru scrimps on details we take for granted on other makes. Tinted glass is one thing. They put clear glass in everything. Visit your favour window tinting place. We did 7 windows in our Legacy... $350.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Because they can - Subaru registers the OB as a truck. You can't tint cars, but you can tint trucks.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OB has the most ground clearance, but the front bumper sticks out so it doesn't have great angles of approach. It really depends on how bad those hiking trails are.

    The RAV4 has very little clearance, in the 7" range. Consider a Forester, maybe even an LL Bean with the self-leveling rear suspension.

    -juice
  • tdiidmantdiidman Member Posts: 35
    I would strongly consider buying an Outback but am hesitant because vehicle stability control, which is increasingly recognized as an excellent safety feature, is only offered on the VDC V6 version of the Outback (the most expensive version). I have not figured out why Subaru doesn't offer this feature on all of their cars. Anyone know if there are plans to offer it on more of their cars in the 2007 or 2008 model year?
  • flyboy616flyboy616 Member Posts: 5
    I own a 1999 Passat (with the 1.8L turbo engine) with over 159,000 miles on it. I've never had an oil pressure problem.

    All I've ever done to it (other than oil/filter changes every 5,000) is new brake pads, new battery (last year), new timing belt (at 89,000) and a new clutch (recently).

    I guess I got lucky.
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    "...the front bumper sticks out so it doesn't have great angles of approach. It really depends on how bad those hiking trails are."

    I thought you were supposed to "hike" the trails - not drive up them! :-)

    Matt
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    I had a new 2001 1.8T - it was in the shop every single month for the first 12 months. I ditched that ASAP and bought my '02 Bean. Have never regretted it, although the Passat interior was nice!
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