Subaru Legacy/Outback

mistershake · July 2007

I have a 96 2.2l legacy outback with 190k plus miles. Recently when im traveling at low rpms in 4th or 5th gear, especially uphill, the motor sounds like its missfiring, losses alot of power, reaks of sulfer, the check engine light blinks, and shudders. the first time it happened i was afraid it was going to die. but after a mile it cleared up. it's done this about once or twice a week since then (havnt been any openings at the garage). I've had the following replaced within the past two years front o2 sensor, knock sensor, both catalytic converters, water pump, s belt and new plugs/wires. any ideas? the check engine light is on always, but blinks during the car's hissyfits.

suzyb2 · July 2007

I appreciate all of the advice. I had the dealership machine the rotors for now (it was at their expense). There was a pulsating when I would apply the brakes, so there was something wrong. I am kind of in a tight situation being in less then a week I'm leaving for a trip to Canada. There will be well over 1,500 miles put on my Subaru in about a week. I do plan on buying new rotors in the very near future, I understand that machining them won't last (but needed to do it this time). What is the difference between drilled and slotted rotors vs. non drilled and slotted? And at what pressure do you recommend tightening the lugs

jfl · July 2007

"At their expense..." They did it for free? Are you a regular customer of theirs?

Let us know if you have any other issues with the car in the coming months. I never like it when a dealer does something for "free".

suzyb2 · July 2007

I am a regular customer of theirs. It's the dealership where I bought my car. They did all the work for free. Hell, they even came to my house to get the car so I wouldn't have to sit there for hours with my two young kids. I made a huge stink before I left the shop after they first told me. I also asked for them to give me print outs of all my service work because I was taking my business elsewhere. They didn't want that, so they called Subaru and got it approved as a "warranty" repair. Like I said, I have all intentions of changing my rotors on my own, but after my trip. I know that these machined rotors won't last. I still would like to know the difference with slotted or drilled rotors vs. non slotted or drilled. Thanks.

paisan · July 2007

Unless you plan on tracking your car ALOT or Caging it and racing it, then you don't need the slotted and/or drilled.

I actually wrote a carspace guide on the differences....

http://www.carspace.com/guides/Performance-Brake-Upgrades

-mike

eawheels · July 2007

I had a very similar problem as yours (no check engine light blinking though). Initially I took it to a repair shop and they flushed the engine and added a "fuel system treatment" to the gas tank. The problem is that various engine components develope a build up of carbon. This solved the problem for about a year. I have since, whenever I have the problem, added a fuel system treatment by the name of Greased Lightning (can be found at Shucks) with excellent results. There are other similar products out there. A once a year treatment usually prevents this problem. This treatment cleans the entire fuel system among other things. Hope this helps. Good luck.

just_phil · July 2007

I don't know the exact numbers for your car, but the lug nuts torque should be around 75-85 ft-lbs. The lug nuts should be tightened by hand using a torque wrench. There's something called a torque stick that can be used with an air gun, but I've heard they are not very accurate.

mistershake · July 2007

I've tried fuel injector cleaner twice and dry gas, but to no avail, i should have mentioned that before.

xwesx · July 2007

It does sound like the knock sensor might be the most likely problem. This car is a manual, correct? How low is the RPM when this problem occurs? These engines are fairly high revving, and make their power at higher RPMs. If you are bogging down the engine by placing it under load at low RPMs, it forces the engine to retard the timing quite a bit to make up for it.

Your first course of action should be to read out the codes and reset CEL. If you leave it on all the time, you never know if/when another code records. At least if you keep a code reader on hand and reset the CEL after it illuminates, you can see if/when a new code is tripped. A simple handheld reader is around $100. Use it a few times and it has already paid for itself.

mistershake · July 2007

Its a standard. it happens at about 2200-2500rpms. how long should a knock sensor last? like i had mentioned it was changed about 1.5 years ago. also would a new pcv valve help? its going to the shop tomorrow to check on the check engine light issue, most likely the rear o2 sensor

xwesx · July 2007

I doubt they have a set life, but I would expect 150,000 miles out of one barring any problems that bring about abnormal wear. But, from your symptoms, it sounds somewhat like the car is receiving too much fuel (or not enough air) under those loads. If it came on suddenly, then something changed over night (clog, bad sensor, etc) rather than a more gradual change, like reduced power due to engine wear with high mileage, etc. Replacing normal wear items like PCV valve is a good start; also check to make sure there are no vacuum hoses clogged. My 2.5L '96 had quite a bit of crud in the vacuum lines near the PCV valve at 196K miles. You might consider checking the knock sensor to determine if it is within specifications. Work through the components that are taxed when the engine comes under load.

orangelebaron · July 2007

Go to a Subaru dealer and sit in a GT and other models to see if you like the comfort. Ask how much for the foam bottom. Ask an upholsterer how much if you give him the foam.
Just re-covering your seat would NOT solve the problem.
The problem is the cushion design, not the fabric.

bestdev · August 2007

Hi all,

I have just bought a 99' Subaru Outback Limited Wagon 4D, 80 ,000 miles on it for $4,600 (I am located in the Bay Area). It has a salvage title.

It was in the front car accident (the Air Bags did not blew up).

The condition of the car is very good. It looks great and drives great as well, that is what actually made me to buy it. I have done some drive testing today for couple of hours everything was great.

My question is: "Is there a way for me to make sure that the car is not dangerous for driving? So far everything is fine? Can there be some hidden defect?

Thanks for your replies,
Pavel

tigabump · August 2007

Hi!

I don't know if this is something harmless or common, but I couldn't find anything like it here.

My OB2002 drops water underneath the engine. It's not much and stops after a while when the car is parked - but it's weired. It does not smell like coolant - it's just water (no overheating problems encountered so far). My old '94 Legacy did the same thing but only when it was hot + the water would come out of a little pipe. Now it seems to drop from a connection point of a much bigger pipe.

Could it be some overflow mechanism ? Also my AC cannot be switched off in the moment, it's always on, but I can't draw a connection here.

Any ideas, experiences are greatly appreciated - because I do not want to turn it in and pay a whole lot of moeny it it's something 'normal'

thanks
Johannes

shrinermonkey · August 2007

Nothing to worry about, just condensation from the A/C.

ateixeira · August 2007

That's nothing, my van does this in 2 places!

Seriously, it has dual A/C, so I get one puddle under the engine bay, another behind the passenger side rear tire.

Strange location, I know!

ateixeira · August 2007

Well, that should have been asked before the purchase, not after, but you could certainly pay a mechanic to perform a complete inspection.

I'd have him focus on the areas that may have been damaged in the collision. Check the alignment, steering, the boots, etc.

paisan · August 2007

Yup I get 2 in my Armada with the rear A/C as well. The rear condensor is behind one of the rear wheels too.

-mike

tigabump · August 2007

Puhh, that is a relief.

I was hopping/guessing it might be something harmless, because it drives just fine - now I need to get the AC fixed....it's advantageous to be able to switch it off from time to time

Johannes

famof3kids · August 2007

I have to agree with this post. For the first few years of ownership, I've not driven my Legacy for over an hour at most. Recently, I've been making several 4 hour trips. Wow, I'm hating the seats now. It is hard and just uncomfortable for a long trip. My passengers have said the same. BTW, I'm 5'8" and 150lbs.
I remember the Subaru seats of late 80's, now those were comfortable seats!

Mark
2003 Legacy Wagon Spec Edt

shrinermonkey · August 2007

I have the opposite experience with my 2006 2.5i SE. I find the seats uncomfortable at first and then I get accustomed to them. I have gone on a 1400 mile road trip without any issues. Having the 8-way power drivers seat makes a big difference as I don't find the passenger seat to be as comfortable. The Lumbar support doesn't seem to hit in the right spot and they seem very firm. But for long trips it actually helps to straighten out my slouch and I can keep driving for a lot longer.

ateixeira · August 2007

The 06 would have different seats than an 03.

Basically the current Legacy came out in 2005. 2000-2004 were the years for the previous generation.

I do not like our 2002 Legacy L's seats much, either. I loved my '98 Forester's seats.

paisan · August 2007

Yeah my 05 LGT wagon seats are great, even though they aren't even power. My favorite all time seats were the SVX leather seats. We did 1500 miles in 2 days in the SVX and didn't feel a thing

-mike

xwesx · August 2007

We did 1500 miles in 2 days...and didn't feel a thing

Sometimes numb is the best way to go! :P

paisan · August 2007

Nah those SVX seats really were awsome! I should get a set for my dad's new 95 impreza.

-mike

terenceb · August 2007

I bought an 08 outback a couple of months ago. The front seats are the most uncomfortable of any car I've owned. In particular the head rest tilts so far forward it gives me a pain in the neck. I've had comments from passengers (my wife in particular) stating(unsolicited) the same. Anyone else having the same problem? I was talking to the salesman I bought the car from and he stated he's heard several comments on this same issue. His pursuing this issue.

xwesx · August 2007

It all depends on the person. I found the seats in my 07 Outback to be the most comfortable. I could drive from Anchorage to Fairbanks (6 hours, 350 miles) or vice versa without a bit of fatigue. That is the first car in which I was able to lay such a claim.

argon · August 2007

I don't know if you got this addressed or not. I had the problem with the same car with the last year, at 3,000 rpm, going up hill. The car would sputter and lose power, but never die. Grannies passed me on bicycles, but it never died.
And since the engine light came on (and stayed on, in my case) I couldn't pass Virginia emissions, for my plates.

One timing belt, a knock sensor, and three ignition coils later, the car still had the same problem.

But at one trip to the mechanic, he had an idea it might be a fuel injector problem, so he switched out the number 2 and 3 injectors, because the computer said it was missing on number 2.

Well, the problem remained, but then miraculously cleared up a couple of days later. Here's what I think happened:
I run a low tank constantly (aversion to and denial of high gas prices). I think i had sumped up some blockage into the #2 fuel line into the injector, and that the injector itself was partially blocked. When the injectors were switched out, I think the force in the unblocked line in #3 pushed any gum out of the injector that was switched there. And, I think, the unblocked injector that was switched to number two allowed the line to eventually unblock over a couple of days.

In other words, my fuel line was constipated.

I can't verify this was the case, but can offer no other explanation, and the fuel injector switch-out was the last thing we did.

So, if you haven't pushed the car off a cliff or fixed the problem in another way, I suggest you check your injectors and the fuel lines immediately before them.

bes001 · August 2007

I am in the process of buying a 2001 Subaru outback. During the discover process it was said that when the second owner recieved the car from the dealer. The dash had to be replaced and the milege was set back to zero. The dealer said there was no way for them to reprogram the dash to account for the 53000 miles originally present. So a statement was issued with the new dash. Is this normal???!!? I can't believe they are unable to reprogram dashes to the the correct mileage. Is this so???
Thanks,
Ben

xwesx · August 2007

That is typical of a modern car. They have designed them to be tamper resistant, so a replaced instrument cluster, if done by an authorized agent, will include a "statement" to adjust the displayed mileage with the previous mileage.

paisan · August 2007

Yup, they don't change the milage, just issue the statement. It's some federal law not to change the milage.

-mike

bes001 · August 2007

Thank you for your help.

Ben

ateixeira · August 2007

The headrests are active, i.e. they move forward in a collision to prevent whiplash.

In IIHS tests Subaru scores all aces in these tests, so at least it's designed that way for a reason.

mistershake · September 2007

funny you should mention that, it just got a fuel injector flush at the mechanics, so we'll see. im hoping it was that.

vxmqzz · September 2007

I bought a pearl white colored 2008 outback with beige inside, I want to use some seat covers to prevent stain, but most seat covers on the market are for seats without airbag, can anyone please recommend some seat covers for seats with airbag ?

Thanks in advance .

dzelinski · September 2007

Both lowbeam headlights are out on my 2001 outback wagon. Checked fuses and all are okay. High beams work fine. Any suggestions?

ateixeira · September 2007

Must be the bulbs, then. Weird that they both went out at the same time.

shrinermonkey · September 2007

Not that strange. Halogen bulbs are manufactured by extremely precise computerized equipment so when one bulb goes, the other being almost identical will often go very shortly afterward.

dzelinski · September 2007

It was the bulbs. Stranger yet was that I replaced one of the bulbs with a spare I had and it still didn't work. Last night I bought two new ones and that solved the problem. Thanks for the input.

ateixeira · September 2007

Cool, glad it was that simple (and cheap!).

jwheaton · September 2007

There is a pervasive mouse smell in my 05 legacy. I suspect the poor critter got into the ventalation system and died. I would like to find it and remove. Any ideas where it might be and how to acceess.

ateixeira · September 2007

A cat?

Check in the cowl area, where the air intake is for the cabin.

budrew · September 2007

I'm trying to decide on whether or not to get the navigation system with a new Outback XT. They are hard to find on the XT, particularly with my favorite color (Diamond Gray Metallic).

If you have it are you glad that you do? My wife has it on her Prius and swears by it. She was unsure about it when shopping for cars, but now uses it all the time.

It's an extra expense plus makes it harder to find a particular color. I would imagine that having it would help resale down the road. From what I read it sounds like the Subaru nav system is challenging to use. Plus, it looks like companies like Garmin make pretty good GPS units in a wide range of models.

A local dealer does indeed have an XT with nav in Silver, but I'm unsure about that color.

So... in your experience is the nav system worth pursuing?

krzyss · September 2007

lands you in your car in unfamiliar environmet or you hate to get lost or prefer to blame a gadget that you are lost go for nav system.

I use maps.

Krzys

bluesu · September 2007

Sorry to hear that Subaru still hasn't fixed its ergonomics in the 08 model. You are far from alone in your pain. I have an 05 Outback and had the same issues w/ headrest and driver's seat. I posted here and on other forums some time ago, and received a number of helpful responses in re: the headrest--stating that dealers probably won't/can't adjust it for you, due to liability or warranty issues; but that if you remove the headrest, it is possible to bend the metal posts to adjust the angle; with a warning to be careful not to over-straighten the posts or you won't be able to re-install the headrest: make certain that the headrest will click in and stay put at the selected height, and be sure that it still will protect you in a crash. As for the seats: I added a thick seat-bottom cushion (www.relaxtheback.com). Not perfect, but it helps. This only works if you have enough headroom; otherwise, the add-on cushion will raise you up too high. PS: both of my low-beam headlamps burned out (29,000 mi.). Dealer replaced them under warranty and said that the original headlamps on the 05 are known to be an issue. They replaced them with long-life lamps.

klauswa · September 2007

We are contemplating a 94 Legacy, said to have 263K miles. I've been told that the timing belt should be changed at 100K or less, and that a broken one will result in bent valves and a seized engine. True?
The seller claims to not know if/when the timing belt was changed.
Thanks, Klauwa

ateixeira · September 2007

Just budget a timing belt replacement in the purchase cost, a few hundred bucks.

That's some serious mileage! Quarter million mile club.

bat1161 · September 2007

Personally I feel that you are better off getting an after-market GPS system (such as the Garmin or TomTom) rather than the built in unit. You can save close to a $1000; get something you can use in multiple vehicles inckuding rentals; and the maps are easier to update (from what I have heard).

I think you are better off getting the car/color you want and go aftermarket.

Mark

ateixeira · September 2007

Yes, very easy to update. $75 and they mail you a DVD. Hook it up to your computer and it takes about an hour. I went from v6 to v8 on my Garmin c320.

Subaru's update is about $230 IIRC, and you just insert an entire new DVD they send you (actually, 1 of 2).

We've taken ours to Orlando and Tucson, and will use it again next month in Tampa. Never leave home (driving) without it!

paulman · October 2007

I noticed a metal plate on the inside of the hood under the scoop. It can be removed. I guess this will allow cool air to circulate over the engine. Are there and benefits/drawbacks to removing the plate? Thanks all.

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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