Subaru Legacy/Outback

ateixeira · May 2001

Reminds me of my home town (Recife, Brazil) when I was growing up.

It's mostly paved (and crowded) now. Too bad.

-juice

nwguy1 · May 2001

I'm looking at buying either a Passat 4motion or an outback. One of the clear safety advantages of the Passat is side head air bags. From the published accident stats, about 16% of fatalities are from head injuries from side crashes. The crash testing of side head air bags seems to support what appears to be intuitively obvious, that they work well in preventing trama in the case of side impact.

Is Subaru looking at adding side head air bags to the 2002 model? It appears that this could be done by simply making a fuller air bag that deploys from the side of the seat.

nygreg · May 2001

I agree with you on the dirt roads. I haven't really tried my new OB on the dirt roads here in NY state yet to give you more insite though. Since I travel to Vermont on business fairly regularly, I am looking forward to the near future when my Soob has enough miles to take the trip. I expect it to be fun going through the Adirondack State Park. Your crews do appear to take pride in their work and so do the cows!!!

Beautiful state.

-Greg

brownwj · May 2001

I have owned an LL Bean for three months. I only have driven it 3,600 miles, but I have been averaging 25 mpg driving around the Washington DC suburbs. The least I have ever gotten was 23.5 and the most was 26 mpg. I have not taken it on the highway for pure freeway driving.
I do not do a lot of pure downtown DC driving where you hit a red light on every block. I hit red lights as I pass through the suburban towns like Alexandria. I have not had any problems at all and am happy with the car. We drove both the 4 and the 6 and just felt the 6 accelerated better and was smoother and quieter.

david35 · May 2001

Fred J-
I considered a Passat as well. I also considered an OB limited before I bought the non-limited OB. Side airbags were appealing but after seeing how well the crash results of the OB were, I decided it wasn't as big of a concern to me. The OB side airbags looked useless, really. That being said, I still would rather have them than not but there were trade-off that swayed me against the Passat: better ground clearance (I drive in snow and occasionally on dirt roads), ~$8k price difference after bargaining was done, slightly more horses and better quality reputation and the OB seemed to be more utilitarian. Just my .$02

david35 · May 2001

Caleb & Taylor

I chose an aftermarket rack- Thule. Most people buy either Thule or Yakima and stick with it forever, mainly because with the purchase of small adapters, the racks can be used with any car. That way, once you buy your bike, canoe, windsurfing, cartop, etc -rack, you move the racks any other car that you have or might buy in the future. I don't know if Subaru racks will fit on anything else but a Subaru (but then again, why would you ever want to buy anything but a Subaru?).

http://www.gearonthego.com/ These guys have a great web site that shows lots of products. Before you know it, you'll have $1,000 in rack stuff:). I am happy with Thule racks. Any Yakima person would tell you the same thing about his racks too. It is a personal preference IMO.

gatorband · May 2001

Got to take my 01 OB to see the wife's family in rural NE Florida (Keystone Hts) a couple of weeks ago and play with it on some of the worst dirt roads around. (alternating soft sand & red clay washboards w/lots of places to get stuck.) My former 4x2 Ford Ranger used to bounce & skip all over the 4.5 mile "road" and I'd cringe every time I had to slow down/stop in a soft patch for fear that I'd be stuck for sure. Needless to say, the OB did great in the land of the 4X4. It rode incredibly smooth and steady on the bumps and was so sure-footed that I was actually looking for sandy spots to drive through. In fact, now that it's so much fun to drive out there, I think I'm going to enjoy visiting the in-laws more often! (Except for the cleanup afterwards of course!)

Stephen (SE)

rsholland · May 2001

When I refer to "bad" (poor word choice perhaps??) roads, I'm really referring to gravel, dirt, washboard, etc.; as opposed to glassy smooth paved roads. In any event, you know what I mean. Those types of roads can take its toll on cars much faster than paved roads.

Actually, I like "bad" roads. They're more fun to drive. Still recommend the Outback or Forester because of those roads...

Bob

dle01 · May 2001

sing4me: I was certainly not trying to belittle your local road crews, but I still do recommend the Outback over the Legacy if you can afford it. I had a fair amount of experience driving my Legacy over dirt farm roads and occasionally off road. The suspension seemed to have too little travel, and small bumps placed close together seemed to upset it (even on uneven "paved" roads). I once had the chance to drive an Outback limited owned by a friend off road on the way to a mountain bike trail and it drove and rode much better over the bumpy stuff, and was smoother on the highway too. I think you would be happier with the OB suspension on dirt roads of any type.

My advice would be to test drive both, hopefully on your dirt roads, and see which one you like best, and if the OB is worth paying extra for to get the suspension. Keep in mind that you will also get the 2.5l engine vs. the 2.2. The Legacy was a good car, but the OB is just better at the use you are describing.

Racks: I too explored putting roof racks on my 95 Legacy. Unfortunately, the factory racks on the 95s were unique to that year and as such it is hard to find a good aftermarket rack system for them. I have a set of Thules from my other car, but the cost of all the adaptors was probitive and it would have looked goofy. The factory rack is very strong, though - I used to strap my kayak right to it. The trailer hitch option may be best for your bikes. I ended up just disassmbling the bikes and carrying them in the cargo area.

donjac · May 2001

Legacy L. wagon, stick, alloys, '01, bought by So. Calif. owner grateful for continuing information from Sub group.

oclvframe · May 2001

Paul,

I have 4400 mi on my Bean OB and have been averaging 22.5mpg. Most of my driving is on the freeway (40mi each way to work). I also have an Odyssey...it does a lot more short drives but still averages 21mpg.

I have not taken a pure highway trip with the OB to see what kind of mileage I can get, but on the Odyssey, we have gotten 25mpg avg 80-85 mph on long trips (Atlanta-Miami).

brownwj:
That is fantastic mileage on your Bean...I have not been able to get over 23.5mpg on mine...how long are your drives? what speed? Are you using regular or premium?

nygreg · May 2001

Congrats on your Legacy. Welcome to the fun. The people here are really great, knowledgeable and as a new owner myself I appreciate it very much.

greg

francophile · May 2001

#1311 of 1314 Legacy vs Outback; racks by dle01 May 07, 2001 (05:33 pm)

I once had the chance to drive an Outback limited owned by a friend off road on the way to a mountain bike trail and it drove and rode much better over the bumpy stuff, and was smoother on the highway too.
...
Keep in mind that you will also get the 2.5l engine vs. the 2.2.

This sounds to me as though you owned (or still own) a 1995 Legacy, and got a chance to drive a newer OB. There have been two revisions of the Legacy platform since 1995, and both have been significant, fundamental improvements to the car. If you compared a 1995 to a 1997 of the exact same trim level, you would notice a significant difference. Also, all current Legacy and Outback models with a 4-cylinder motor have the same engine, a 2.5 liter SOHC motor that was first introduced to the Legacy in 2000.

I still agree with your recommendation that a prosepective buyer try both trim levels and decide for themselves. Ultimately that is the best route to take.

Cheers,
-wdb
(Who has just a few dirt and gravel roads around here to play on, and who loves to do so with his Legacy GT)

ateixeira · May 2001

Don: congrats. The L is the well-kept secret bargain of the line up.

-juice

theob · May 2001

The Subaru rack system is Yakima. The Round Bar set is a set of Yak DoubleCross towers with locks and 48" round bars. The ski racks are the old ButtonDown 6's w/ 2V MightyMounts(current Yak is the Powderhound series w/o MightyMounts). The top-mounted bike racks are LockJaws.
At REI.com, the Yak DoubleCross towers and 48" bars with 4 SKS cores will run you about $188 + shipping. At SubaruParts.com the same package w/ Subaru label is $124+$11 shipping. They are all interchangeable. Have a bunch of Yak stuff that works on my old 4Runner, so only needed 2V Mighty Mounts and round cross bar set to transfer everything.
HTH,
Theo

bandd1 · May 2001

I have a couple of questions; just purchased the LL Bean ed. and was deciding on the extended warranty from Subaru it is $1,700.00(from dealer); thought this was pricey any other suggestions??
Also what is the story on the outlet and not being able to use it for the cell phone?
Also the protective coat from dealer is that worth it??
Thanks!

nygreg · May 2001

Just filled up again with 900 miles on the car. Calculated 23.6 mpg on 93 Mobil. My first tank got 23 mpg. Of course, I have been easy on the throttle. Hope the trend continues.

-greg

otis123 · May 2001

Took delivery of my wife's black LLBean Outback w/ subwoofer/amp on 2/1/01. (Sold my beloved '92 Camry LE with 161,000 miles to a friend for a bargain $3K and took over my wife's Accord - I'm a nice guy).

H6 started out w/ 19-21 mpg, then saw an increase at around 2,800 miles (@ 1st oil change) to 21-23mpg. Best so far was two weeks ago at around 4,300 miles - 23.9mpg. Mostly parkway driving @ 70-80mph on Taconic State Parkway in Westchester Co. NY. Hope mpg gets a little better...

Love the car. Solid, smooth, powerful, and comfortable (love the way the Boxer engine doesn't dip the car when cornering). Definitely grows on you as you stop babying it, and start to test its limits. Drove the H4 Limited, but found the H6 to be a completely different car. Also drove the 6 cyl. Passat (grew up in Volkswagens) but don't like to sit in service departments (did that keeping a Rabbit alive in graduate school). Nothing else really competes with the H6 Outback when looking for a refined, near-luxury AWD wagon that you can drive out of the dealer's lot for $30K...

yaox · May 2001

I plan to buy an OB recently. I got a quote for $100 over invoice. Can you guys tell me if it is a good deal? Is there any "hidden" dealer incentive or customer incentive? Thanks a lot.

raybear · May 2001

Is a fair deal. Think about it, there are no incentives that I'm aware of, no need to haggle this one down really.

raybear · May 2001

:-)

jay_24 · May 2001

I got my first subaru (OB Wagon) 4 weeks ago. Thanks to all of you! I read this group and others while trying to find the right car. THe other groups (ford and VW) talk about problems. You guys and gals talk about adventures, accessories and maybe a problem once in a great while.

So far nothing but smiles. the OB replaced my 91 GMC Jimmy (s15) with 177,000 miles... On the three tanks of gas, I've averaged 26.5 mpg which was reason #2 for the OB. Happily suprised that its that good allready. Reason #1 was safety and AWD.

Only one possible problem. Has anybody had a speedometer that seem a bit slow? I'm going about 70mph in a 60pmh zone and just keeping up. In my old Jimmy I ussually was at 65mph.

--Jay

jim235 · May 2001

Even after knowing for many months about this cold starting problem on its H6's (Bean's & VDC's) Subaru still has not provided any service bulletins to its dealers regarding the problem. As a result it is almost certain that your dealer has no idea that a problem even exists with the ECM's. Subaru appears to be doing its best to cover up the problem rather than deal with it openly and honestly. If you want to have the problem fixed with the least hassle, you probably will have to call Subaru Customer Service directly, tell them that you have a cold starting problem that you believe is related to the defective ECM, and ask them to contact your dealer and authorize a replacement.

Subaru's unwillingness to provide frank and open disclosure of the H-6's cold starting problems to either its customers or dealers has left me wondering about the integrity of Subaru as a company. Is anyone at Team Subaru even permitted by Subaru to address this issue in a public forum?

nygreg · May 2001

We have much in common. I also traded my very much beloved 92 Camry LE with 180,000 trouble free miles (my wife's and I first car together) two weeks ago for a base outback in Winestone. We live in Putnam County so the Taconic is well known and a great road for the OB, especially going north to Albany. Congrats on the Bean - black is really sharp looking!

-greg

evilizard · May 2001

$1700 for a warranty is a Rip. Search the Web for cheaper ones. You can get a no deducatable 10y/100K warranty for less than that from links right here on edmunds (check out the Warranty tab on new car pricing and scroll to the bottom). Don't know about the level of service but its cheaper!

As far as the protective coat goes I don't know exactly what it is but generally speaking if its coming from the dealer its overpriced.

The Cig ligher works fine with my cell phone. Don't know why they say what they do in the manual.

scubated · May 2001

Hi,
Has anyone noticed any premature wear of their brake pads? I had to replace the front brake pads at 15,000 miles and the rear at 24,000 miles and now at 32,000 miles they are telling me the fronts are worn again. I have been driving only Subarus since my first one in '84. I drive on mostly country roads and am almost never in traffic. I have usually gotten way into the high 30000 and 40,000 before the brakes needed any work in the past. As goodwill Subaru picked up the tab for the first set of brake pads. I paid for the rear set. Now they are telling me that the braking system is normal and is within specifications. That is what they have been telling me everytime I brought the car in for service. The car seem unusually loud at times too when braking. Friends have commented on it. I was beginning to ignore the noise. Subaru customer service is saying that this is all with normal wear range and it doesn't look like they are willing to acknowledge that there could be a problem. It is really upsetting me to think that my beloved Subaru may have a defect like this. Please let me know what your normal wear is and if you have had any problems.
Thanks

brownwj · May 2001

In reply to question on how my LL Bean averages 25mpg. I drive to work on the George washington Parkway. Average 55-60. Hit three or four stoplights in alexandria then another leg of 55 - 60. Total distance = 16 miles. Average time is 30 min, so average speed is 32 miles per hour. I also burn either 93 premium or a mixture of 89 and 93. I think that I am just going to go 93 and take advantage of super tuesday.

I am curious to see what I will get on the freeway.

I am really suprised by the varience that I see for mpg of the Subaru cars. I have seen some comments from Forester owners complain about only getting 18-19 mpg and some of the 4-Bangars OB only getting the same. On the opposite end, I had one 4-banger tell me he got 30 mpg. Maybe he did on the highway at 60 mpg. I make a real effort to look a mile ahead to anticipate the traffic and will comeoff the throttle sooner than average so use brakes less and acelerate less. Of course, you have to not be obnoxious and be the slow poke if you have other traffic behind you, but still you can avoid the slam on the brake/full throttle mode.

Maybe some cars are made tighter than others. It really seems like my rolling resistence is low.

ateixeira · May 2001

Barb: $1700 sounds steep. Get a quote from an on-line provider (Edmunds' pricing has a link to one), and then ask Subaru to match it. I'm sure they will and you'll save hundreds.

Congrats to you and to Jay and Otis, BTW.

Jim: have you been in contact with Patti of SoA? I would think that they would work region by region, but that Alaska would be among the first!

Patricia: mine have 37k and a lot of life left on them. Are you commuting bumper to bumper, and do you ride the brakes?

You could consider getting the "lifetime brakes" offered by some franchises. I know they are not OE, but you'd only be paying for the pads since the rest is covered by warranty, and they'd last forever (or at least you'd get free pads next time).

-juice

david35 · May 2001

Patricia: I have 30k mi on mine and they are still in good shape.

Ray: $100 over invoice is a great deal. Take it.

mochalab · May 2001

I was informed by Ed Reilly Subaru (Concord, NH) Service Department today that there is a recall on the H6 computer. They said that Subaru is in the process of reprogramming the computer and will be shipping the replacement in two to three weeks. I was at the dealership on Saturday as a result of my check engine light appearing the previous Wednesday morning. They had put my LL Bean on their computer, and it revealed a code that was unfamiliar to them. They said they would have to call SOA. So, I guess I wait and, in the meantime, service told me that I could use my car without any problems. I wonder if this will cure the cold starts that I've also experienced and the shift fluttering that I feel when I'm driving. Despite this, I can't help but LOVE my sub. Donna

nygreg · May 2001

I agree that the mpg seems to vary quite a bit from car to car. Of course, many factors account for this (lead foot, traffic, etc.), but the spread does seem large. Consumer Reports stated that the mileage is a little dissappointing averaging about 20 (if I remember correctly). Could it be that the difference between driving easy and hard makes that much of a difference with the H4 configuration??

-greg

ateixeira · May 2001

IIRC, Motorweek had a long-term Outback getting mid-20s mpg figures, and they don't drive lightly.

There are so many other factors, like terrain, payload, gas quality, etc.

-juice

evilizard · May 2001

1 tank of premium (93oct) and I'm getting about 20.5 MPG. Mixed city highway driving with the Climate control on most of the time.

viktoria_r · May 2001

I'm new to the topic. From your past experiences, are A/T reliable in Legacies? Also, I will use a lot of A/C in summer, does it have tendency to overheat the car? Is it cold enough for 80-90 degree outside temeratures? I saw mentioning of timing belts. I thought many cars nowdays have timing chains? does Subaru really have belt? Is extended warranty worth getting for the car with auto transmission? Also, this is different topic, but how is ride comfort and queteness compare to Honda Accord/Toyota Camry? Thanks

subearu · May 2001

Don't forget the reformulated stuff we have to use here in the upper midwest (special ethanol blend). I think it has to have some effect on MPG, probably 1 or 2 MPG less, at least. I know the Winter blend they use here (more oxygenates) affects MPG too, probably 2 or 3 MPG less.

On our Outback we're averaging 22 MPG, with mostly city driving (probably 65/35). Granted, my commute is short (5 minutes) - so it doesn't spend time idling in traffic (which nets you 0 MPG).

FYI, $1.939 for regular unleaded (87 octane) here.

-Brian

FrankMc · May 2001

and I have had no problem in overheating when turning on the air-conditioning. Yes Subaru still has timing belts (but the maintenance interval on the 2.5 engine is 90k miles I believe). ps timing belts are not evil, as with everything else there are pluses and minuses with that design. The Subaru auto transmission is very reliable. I have had 2 Subaru's both have over 60k mileage and I am way ahead by not buying the extended warrenty. But with Subaru you can wait for a couple of years to "see how the car is acting" before you make the final decision.
I haven't driven a Honda or Toyota lately so I will let others answer the ride question.

Frank

ps the "L" is a real value in todays market.

originalbitman · May 2001

I drove in a lot of 90 - 100 degree weather last summer and found the AC more than adequate... however I have my windows tinted which makes a BIG difference. Soob timing belts now go 105K miles and the ride is very nice. We used to rent Camrys for our road trips and I would say my GT wagon feels as nice.

bit

viktoria_r · May 2001

thanks, FrankMc and originalbitman
regarding ride/queteness: i like Camry's, but I do not want Camry 'cause everyone is driving one and I feel wagon is more useful.
I had Accord coupe, and the road noise/vibration was very tiring on long trips. I need a car to be comfortable because we often take 6-hour trips.

Legacy L sounds nice, but of course I will test drive it to see for myself.
The gas mileage does not sound that great for a 4-cyl midsize car. i've always had 6 and 8 cyl cars, but then again, gas was lot cheaper even couple of years ago... now we have $2/gal regular! they say it will be $3 soon, so I guess everyone starts taking gas mileage seriously now...

originalbitman · May 2001

We take lots of long road trips and have rented everything from Camrys to Volvo wagons. We have found our GT wagon to be as enjoyable a road trip car as any. Very little noise even with the moonroofs cracked open and no vibration. Our last big trip (9k miles) we averaged 28.3 mpg but that is with the 5 speed. Only real downside is the cupholders. The one on the dash doesn't like anything bigger than a soda can (beer in Texas) and the one on the console is in the way of the shifter. I added aftermarket holders.

bit

viktoria_r · May 2001

is it hard to find car with options you want when it comes to Subarus? For instance, I only want auto trans and keyless entry options, nothing else. I know that some car companies (Toyota for example) play 'options game', i.e. options/prices are listed, but try to find car with just options you want and no other add-ons, and most likely you are out of luck. Is it better with Subarus?

originalbitman · May 2001

The L is pretty bare bones and depending on the dealer you can probably find one that way. You will have to add the keyless entry ($175 MSRP). Many dealers sell at or near invoice. If the car they have has options you don't want you can ask to have them removed or order from the factory. If you haven't already go to http://www.subaru.com/home.html and do the Shop Subaru to see what is standard and what the options are.

bit

FrankMc · May 2001

but you won't be able to tell the options. However, "barebones" has certainly changed its meaning over time, air conditioning, power steering and brakes, electric windows and door locks, stero w/cassette, cruise control, ABS brakes, tilt steering wheel, etc etc etc....

Frank

viktoria_r · May 2001

Edmunds lists following on Legacy L SW/ auto as standard:
4-speed automatic transmission; limited slip differential; front independent suspension with stabilizer bar, rear independent suspension with stabilizer bar; speed proportional power steering; 4 disc brakes with 4-wheel ABS; 4-speaker, AM/FM, cassette, and pillar antenna; cruise control; power door locks; power windows, 1 one-touch operation; Instrumentation and warnings include tachometer, clock, external temperature indicator, door ajar, low fuel; fixed intermittent wipers, rear window defroster; cloth upholstery, fixed rear seat; tilt adjust steering wheel; power black mirrors; front door pockets; remote trunk release, remote fuel door release.

This does not seem too bare-bone to me. I don't care for alloys, sunroofs, and other such stuff. The only objectionable thing IMO is absence of at least single CD player. Also, I looked on carsdirect.com and it lists roof rack as standard. edmunds doesn't mention it. I will go to Subaru website to see if it is. Other then that I wouldn't exactly call it bare-bones...

FrankMc · May 2001

with a story about my 1st barebones car, but decided that it made me sound older than I wanted to, however I agree with you that the "L" has an impressive list of standard equipment. (considering that the "L" is now the base car!"

Frank

raybear · May 2001

Standard Equipment
Every 2001 Subaru Legacy Wagon 5dr L Auto comes with the standard equipment below. Unless otherwise noted, standard equipment is the same for vehicles in different model years.

MECHANICAL
· 2.5L SOHC SMPI 16-valve 4-cyl horizontally opposed ''Boxer'' engine
· 4-speed electronically-controlled automatic transmission w/OD
· All-wheel drive
· Independent front/rear suspension
· Front/rear stabilizer bar
· P205/60HR15 all-season SBR tires
· 15'' steel wheels w/full wheel covers
· Speed-sensitive variable assist pwr rack & pinion steering
· Pwr vented front/solid rear disc brakes
· 4-wheel anti-lock braking system (ABS)
· 16.9 gallon fuel tank (2000)

EXTERIOR
· Monotone paint (2000)
· Raised roof line (2000)
· Roof rails
· Automatic-off multi-reflector halogen headlights
· Daytime running lights
· Dual black fold away pwr mirrors
· Fixed intermittent windshield wipers
· Fixed intermittent rear window wiper/washer

INTERIOR
· Reclining front bucket seats w/height adjustable head restraints
· Driver seat height adjustment (2000)
· Moquette cloth seat trim
· 60/40 split fold down rear bench seat
· Rear seat headrests on all seating positions
· Tilt adjustable steering column
· Instrumentation-inc: digital dual-mode trip odometer, ambient temp gauge
· Tell-tale door ajar graphic display (2000)
· Pwr windows w/driver-side one-touch down feature
· Pwr door locks
· Cruise control
· Air conditioning
· Rear seat heat ducts
· Rear window defroster w/timer
· Electronic AM/FM stereo w/cassette-inc: (4) speakers, clock
· Front 12-volt pwr outlet & ashtray
· 2 front/2 rear cupholders
· Lighting-inc: overhead map, glove box, cargo area, trunk
· Cargo area hooks
· Cargo area/trunk multibox storage tray
· Cargo area security cover

EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATINGS
· City 22/hwy 27 (2.5L engine/4-speed auto trans) (2000)

SAFETY
· 4-wheel anti-lock braking system (ABS)
· Driver & front passenger airbags (SRS) w/passenger dual stage deployment
· 3-point seatbelts on all seating positions
· Height adjustable shoulder belts on front seating positions
· Child safety rear door locks
· Uniform child safety seat anchorage system
· Energy-absorbing collapsible steering column
· Front/rear 5-mph impact-absorbing bumpers
· Side-impact door beams
· Daytime running lights

viktoria_r · May 2001

your post slipped in before my question. you guys are so nice here, unlike some other boards! what are the crossbars and what is their purpose?
thanks.

rsholland · May 2001

The crossbars are the two bars that go across the roof, and attach to the two roof rails, which run the length of your roof.

The crossbars are what you attach items to, so that the items don't rest on your roof.

Bob

hammersley · May 2001

Viktoria: The crossbars on the roof rack are the lateral members of the luggage rack... one front, one rear. They are adjustable front-to-rear to accomodate differing sizes of cargo, and also serve as attachment points for such things as bicycle racks. Handy things to have to keep whatever you're carrying up there from sliding off the roof!

And you're right... this is a friendly bunch... I've peeked at other subject boards here on Edmunds, and there are a lot of grumps out there! Stay here, we'll treat you nice!

Cheers!
Paul

hammersley · May 2001

didn't mean to step on toes...you & I were typing at the same time... you, however, faster than me!

Cheers!
Paul

rsholland · May 2001

I'm not really any faster... It's just age over beauty.

Bob

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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