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Comments
Subies tend to be a bit better though.
As for heads, do a compression test. You should get no more than a 10% variation in the pressure of each cylinder, and that would mean the head gasket is sealed nicely.
It's not a very costly test, either.
-juice
I would be wary of a private sale car that has had a head gasket problem, especially at that high mileage. You have no recourse from a private sale if there are further problems. A few months ago we traded in a 1993 Taurus on a 2000 Legacy. It was our first experience with Taurus and I think our last. During the early 1990s, Taurus had a history of head gasket and transmission problems. Given the two choices, I would have the Taurus checked out by a Ford mechanic and then only buy it with an extended warranty. I would also try to get them to drop their price on the Taurus or give you the extended warranty at that price. You may want to check out the vehicle's history via the VIN number to ensure it has never been wrecked. Good luck.
Jon W.
You AC will break the day after its 5 year anniversary and will never be the same again.
On the Sube your looking at shocks, belts, starter, alternator, vavle jobs and other "Accessories" going between 100-130K. Your CV boots need a good looking at. Have a mechanic have a long look at that engine.
I guess it depends on how long you plan on keeping the car. The Taurus is safe bet for about 60-65K before chances of it costing you big get real. Its got 30K on it now so thats two years of relative trouble free driving.
The Sub has a real chance of racking up $1000 worth of work in that timeframe but after that your good for another 60-90K.
Initially speaking the Sube is going to need more work more often. But once the problem is fixed it is likely to STAY fixed. On a Taurus it will stay fixed for a year or two and then come back. And if its a transmission problem forget it, they just get worse every time.
I think you could get a better deal on a Sube than that guy. I know here in town a 96 w the same miles was going for $10K.
My dad owned 2 Tauruses over 10 years. The first one got 190K before the transmission lost it. He had to have the AC replaced several times, suspension work a few times, brake work (above and beyond normal) and a couple of other knicknacks done here and there. All and all it held up very well for the type of abuse he put it through. His Second Taurus was not so lucky. Tranny started going after 55K and a whole bunch of other issues were creeping up (brakes, suspension, electrical) so he traded it for a Ford Exploder (He likes those fords). Some poor sucker out there is going to buy a Green 99 Taurus with a whole load of problems.
Sure did! Spent the night in Eureka, so we did the Redwoods National Park one day and the Avenue the next. Spent the evening crawling through the brewpubs in Old Town (watching the Mariners blow a 12-run lead to Cleveland!). Thanks for the 211 tip - sounds like the hidden roads in Texas hill country that were so much fun to explore.
Joe -
If it's been a one-owner OB and the guy has good records, it could be a decent car. If you're looking at multiple owners, I'd pass at that mileage and price.
Cheers!
Ken M.
-juice
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
What's happening with your OB and the pinging problem?
Vince
Well it's still pinging consistently. We've washed our hands of the local subaru dealership since they wouldn't even consider taking our car as a trade because something was obviously bad wrong with it (even though SoA contends that the car is fine and completely within normal operating limits). Susan with SoA even talked to them, but they didn't seem to care. They didn't have a problem selling me the car, but they don't want to help me be happy with it or Subaru. So Susan called another dealership 30 miles from here and told them the situation. She had them agree to offer me the Subaru family discount which is $300 over invoice. So I went in, but the prices they gave me are $2-3,000 more than Fitzgerald's up in Maryland (I've been checking out their website thanks to advise on this board). Also they only wanted to give me $18,000 to trade in my 2001 Outback with 10,000 miles. When my husband called the manager to see if they would come down on their price or give us more for the trade in, his attitude is they were doing us a favor, and that we should be happy with that, he also pointed out that there was something wrong with the car. My husband told him that SoA says it's perfect, so who are you going to believe? The legal option is still there, I just don't want the headache if I can avoid it. So we actually are going to talk to Fitzgerald and see if we can work with them from down here in NC. Since SoA is offering us $1500 toward a new Subaru and we can probably transfer our extended warranty, we just lose the least amount of cash that way (actually we could get back more if we pursued the lemon law, but then we have to find another type of car,and again we want to give this one last try). Susan with subaru has been better and willing to help us try to get in another car without admitting there is something wrong with our car.
I've just been sitting back reading everyone's posts waiting for another pinger to emerge...
I'll keep you posted when something happens. I've actually reached my tolerance for the situation and have handed it over to my husband. Hopefully he'll have better luck than I.
thanks
Sharon
I would warn anyone against ever dealing with them on any level. They also sell Volkswagons and Nissans. If anyone is in this area and looking for any of those vehicles, go to Maxwell in Burlington.
Those are my two cents.
One of our techie regulars, Colin, mentioned how detonation and pre-ignition were not the same, and how the latter was not really detrimental to the engine. The topic was discussed extensively on i Club, and that was the general consensus.
So I was thinking, maybe this is what that Subaru Rep was talking about.
Still, if the noise bothers you, work with Fitz. Talk to John Proffitt, and tell him juice (AJ) sent you. I've worked with him several times, with both friends and family. He's a really nice guy and the best thing about their dealerships is no surprises.
If you can get deal, plus the $1500 credit Subaru promised, he might make you a happy camper after all. Boy would that be great.
-juice
Becker Subaru in Allentown, PA is advertising 2001 Beans for $25799. Sales guy told me this morning they're down to the last one. Two weeks ago they were selling them for $24999 and sold 14 of them in a few days. They will probably offer at invoice deals on the 2002 models in a few months. I bought my 2000 OB just below invoice in Dec of 1999.
They are a large volume dealer. Sales experience is low pressure and hassle free. They do not however want my pinging OB as a trade based on the $16000 trade in offer that I received.
http://www.beckersubaru.com
Allentown is 50 miles north of Philly and about 3 hrs from Fitzgerald's. Might be worth asking Becker about how they could deliver a car to NC.
Don't give up on forcing a buy back since it will force SoA to pay you for the car as well as preventing Subaru from reselling the car without telling any perspective buyer why it was bought back.
Vince
It's #2691 in the Subaru Crew - General Maintenance & Repair topic.
Check it out, you'll find it interesting.
-juice
Vince -- you're giving me ideas!!! I hadn't thought about buying a new outback without trading the current one/or having to sell it myself. My conscious does get to me a bit when I think of some unsuspecting soul buying the car not knowing of the engine pinging problem. Maybe it doesn't bother other people like it does me, but it should be up to them to decide.
Anyway, thanks for all of the information and recommendations for car dealers. I wish I could have gotten in on the $24,999 LLBean deal.
I'll keep weighing my options.
Thanks
Sharon
Then, at least they do an extensive check/service on your old car before they'll resell it.
-juice
I think there is a $750 rebate, though it may be only in some regions. Automotive News does not list any incentives, though.
-juice
I've been following the problem you are having with your Outback. I had a problem with a Subaru a few years ago and in the long run was very satisfied with the way SOA handled things. I have a suggestion - ask Subaru for an additional $500. I know they have done this in the past. Even with $2000 it won't cause them to loose anything on the new purchase and would probably make you a loyal customer as I am.
Just a thought.
Chris
Thanks ahead of time for any responses.
1.0 - 1.1 mm (0.039 - 0.043 in)
Synthetics - is your OB a manual and if so what synthetic gear oil did you use?
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
The car is really clean too.
The only thing I can think of is they must be suspicious of a car that we're trying to get rid of after 6 months. Also a lot of dealers don't have any pricing info on the 2001's yet, so I think they're using 2000 info.
In any case it's not right. We lose several K on the deal. We're going to talk to the Fitz. people today (I have my husband on the case).
Thanks
Sharon
I agree with Juice on the Carmax deal...I spit shined my 93 Lexus ES300 and got $13k for it with 86k mi on it....the Honda dealer was only going to give me $8500 for it due to the mileage. The cleanliness (show room condition) of the car helped...even with the high mileage and oil leak at the crank seals.
As for another option on your replacement vehicle, the Subaru dealers here are not selling H-6s or even WRXs at the pace they thought they would. I was just at my service dealer the other day and they had 5-6 new h-6s and 5-6 wrxs of different colors and trim levels. Atlanta is not a bad trip down from Raliegh. You could make a weekend out of it and catch the Atlanta Symphony or maybe a nice show at either Chastain or the Fox while here.
The dealer I bought from is Ed Voyles in Marietta and the dealer I go to for service is Troncalli. When I bought my Bean, I got it for $200 over invoice. I bet you can do better than that now. I can put you in contact with the salesman I dealt with if you'd like. Also, you can check the inventory at each of the local area's dealers via Subaru's web site.
LMK if I can help.
Good luck,
Robert in Atlanta.
If another subaru pings, then I suppose it would support SoA's position that it's a pretty common thing. But I will never like it and in the end it will be the last Subaru I ever own if a second one did it.
Sharon: your pre-delivery inspection should be thorough. Take your time. Test drive the exact car you will be buying, and I mean for 15 minutes or more. Go over bumps, around turns, and on the highway. Hit the gas and check for hesitation. Make sure there is room, and then test the brakes in an emergency stop. Listen for any annoying squeeks, rattles, and yes, pings.
Walk around it once or twice. Check the paint, the panel gaps, everything. Try every accessory to make sure it works.
Also, don't take delivery at night. Make sure it's daytime so you have plenty of light to see every last detail. Also, shut off the radio for you test drive, which would mask unwanted driveline noises.
Sorry if all this sounds obvious, but so many things run through your mind when you buy a car that many people forget.
-juice
-juice
If you want to do it yourself you'll need to pick up a filter (I have been educated by others that the new engines have an external filter) from your dealer as well as a crush ring (same type of oil changes). Look for the broad flat pan under the transmission and take the bolt off. Let drain, take the filter off and let drain. Put bolt back on w/crush ring, fill filter with fluid and put back on. Then refil transmission through the check hole on the left side of the transmission near the back of the engine bay. The stick should have a cherry red fluid on it. If the fluid is more brown than red and has a distinct pungent smell to it you've got the wrong one (thats differential).
Greg
Personally I prefer to get as much fresh fluid in my filters (all oil filter types) as I can to avoid the possibility of air bubbles and inaccurate fluid levels (fluid level will not be accurate until the filter is full). Kind of priming thing I guess.
All filters are only good down to a certian size of particle. Presumably particles smaller than this would not cause undue wear. I still think a good flush the first time to make sure everything gets out is a good idea.
Synthetic - Redline works for me.
That seems a bit too good to be true, so I checked Edmunds invoice price on the car and it's $26,692 without the destination charge.
How can they sell an LLBean for that?
I think we're going to wait to trade in since I doubt the trade-in amount can go down any more (the best we've gotten is $18,000).
Sharon
Still, that's more than fair, especially for a brand-new 2002. You get a few extras, like the new dual cup holders, the ignition light, variable intermittent wipers, the cool in-glass antennae, and IMO better tires.
Seems like quite a fair price. I'm sure the 2001s had an incentive to be any lower.
If my wife had to buy a new car today, it would likely be a Bean wagon or the base H6 sedan. Though I'd prefer to be able to wait for a Legacy Blitzen.
-juice
Based on their newspaper ads they sell about 20+ Subaru's per week and they are closed on Saturday, the biggest car day of the week, as well as Friday evenings. Based on juice's numbers that's a little under $11000 per week just in holdback money. (This number obviously doesn't mean much w/o knowing the expense side of the equation).
They also move alot of used cars where profit margins are higher and they have an extremely busy, and very competent, service department.
They are a very reputable dealer and as I mentioned in a previous post awhile back the owner even has a "listed home phone number" in the telephone book. How many car dealer owners would do that?
juice, my 2000 ob has the inglass antenna and vbl intermittent wipers. Did they make changes to these for 2002?
Vince
The antennae may have spread to more models now.
-juice
I've been lurking here for quite some time waiting for the 'planets to line up' in order to purchase my LLBean. There seem to be a couple of them (2001s) left around town (Minneapolis, MN) and low interest financing. I like the improvements of the 2002 but not sure it warrants potentially paying more for it? I will be selling/trading both a 99 Honda Odyssey EX and 99 Honda Accord EX V-6 Coupe for the Bean. (Wife will drive the Bean for a while and I'll drive a F(*&^ Ranger that my Daughter won't be needing for some time). We need to get rid of a car payment due to change in job situation.
Any comments/opinions welcome.
Oh, BTW, anyone here have experience with either Morries or Luther dealerships in the Twin Cities?
Thanks.
Paul In MN.
Trading in two cars? Wow. You may want to consider private party selling, try cars.com or something. Or go to CarMax and see what they will offer you. Those cars should be very easy to sell.
I think you'll find a Beanie will do a fair impression of combining the sporty nature of your coupe with the utility of your van.
-juice
wipers have a fixed intermittent mode, 2 full on modes (slow and fast) and also a vbl mode when in the full "on" setting. There are either 3 or 4 vbl settings. I forget the exact number.
rear wiper intermittent mode would be nice.
Vince
I found generally that the dealers here and in MN are selling their '01 Beans at invoice. Chicago dealers are selling the same car for prices comparable to the Fitz prices which are around $1300 less than invoice. Morries was one dealer I checked with. Very nice people on the sales side. They said frankly that they had a good market for the cars there and didn't need to discount them very much.
The story is the same here in Ohio as the dealers are lower volume/higher markup. Good luck.
I think it was the Forester that got the fixed variable intermittent rear wiper.
-juice
my previous post is partially incorrect. the vbl settings are in the intermittent mode and not in the full on position.
Vince
Anyone know for sure which wipers were upgraded and how?
-juice
Today unfortunately its in an extreme pinging mode. Can't even touch the gas pedal and its pinging. Driving out of the parking lot at lunchtime and not exceeding 10 mph and it was pinging. Becker Subaru is about 2 miles from where I work so I stopped in to speak with the svc mgr. He was busy so I'll stop back later in the day.
Pinging was also rather loud when holding a steady pedal between 35 & 45. It didn't ping accelerating up a rather steep hill but when I let up on the gas at the top of the hill the pinging returned. It was pinging from easy starts from stop lights. Start out with a "heavy foot" and it doesn't ping. Go figure.
@##@#@&%& is my response!!
My wife and I need to discuss whether we will follow the arbitration path under PA's Lemon Law.
Never had a car that I enjoyed so much. Too bad there's been so much aggravation to go along with it.
Vince
As you're well aware they told me mine is normal too. I just think they haven't found a fix yet. I have the extended warranty, but I doubt we keep the car long enough to matter unless they come up with a miracle fix and apologize!
But since they have offered us $1500 toward a new one, we may try again. I think we're going to wait until next year provided nothing catastrophic happens to the car before then.
Good luck with yours and keep me posted as well.
Sharon
my 2000 ob is a ltd. wonder if the non ltd previously did not have a vbl setting while the 2002 non ltd does.
epeterson@whitebearasi.dealerspace.com
Basically he gives a no haggle $500 over invoice. might be better now that 2002s are out. The other guys there are you basic car sales people.
Service is OK. They make you feel like your getting special treatment but I'm not sure of the actual quality of the service/repair.
I was there Monday for an oil change and they are getting thin on 2001 models. Lots of empty spaces.
I don't like recommending sales places/people but I do like recommending a subaru. I have 2001 OB wagon.