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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    7k extra will put you in a VDC, even with options.

    You can get an LL Bean with the H6 for under $27k easily. That's only about half the difference you mention, plus you get tons of features and even free service standard.

    That may be just the ticket.

    -juice
  • breckcobreckco Member Posts: 62
    We just traded in our 2000 OB and will be selling the Yakima Doublecross Towers (may sell 48" bars also). Anyone used ebay to buy or sell this type of stuff? Any other suggestions to sell this?

    Thanks for a great forum. I've really enjoyed it.

    Live Happy,

    Chris
  • mybenjemybenje Member Posts: 18
    I have been contemplating to spend the extra 7K on an LL bean to get the 6 cylinder. I can get the Outback H4 for 23K.

    I am curious how does the H4 engine perform around town and in mountain driving?
    Did anyone make some modifications to increase the horsepower like air filter, exhaust, chip Etc... I would like to get up to the 180 horses range.

    Thanks
  • 20llbean20llbean Member Posts: 83
    IMHO: I didn't pay an extra 7K to get the H6, it was about 4K more plus the many options that come with a transition to the LLBean edition. I ruled out the VDC since I don't see a great leap in capability over the LLBean. Also, IMHO Subaru is very eager to grap a lead in the emerging sport wagon segment of the car marketplace by establishing a strong customer base that promotes itself without advertising dollars (as long as the cars perform well of course!) similar to the way Volvo's were in the station wagon market. That tends to translate into incentives to sell and sell more. I am sometimes pessimitic about getting 100 dollars less then invoice (as I got on my LLBean) but all reviews seem to predict a reliable, well-made car that is comparable to the Passat, Audi sport wagons. I know that Car&Driver rated those two makes above Subaru Outback, but I think that Car&Driver has a fundamental flaw in overranking German-made automobiles. Statements like the 'Passat is more sportier' seem more like an excuse to valid a model without the presence of comparable data.
  • 20llbean20llbean Member Posts: 83
    Is it just profit to the maker, but are there any advantages/reasons to using fuel injector cleaners in your gas tank? Is there any real data to back up using these additives in some cases like engine sluggishness, etc.,?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Check out my Pine Barrens album. My Forester is pictured in #16 and #32, but there is an XT6 and even an RS crossing water! Pretty wild.

    Two BRATs showed up and one owner was determined to cross anything in his path, and basically did.

    Check them out. Feel free to copy and share these and I took the photos and own them.

    -juice
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    most major brand gas companies have injector cleaners already in the gas at the pump so unless you buy gas from Freds local station who gets his gas delivered off an unmarked and probably hijacked tanker you should be fine. anything the dealer tries to sell, you probably don't need or can buy the same thing at an auto store for a tenth of their price. on my older vehicles I will occ put a bottle of some cleaner in the tank but its only a couple of bucks.
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    I have been wanting to buy a set....don't need the cross bars themselves, just the double cross attachments. How much do you want for them? Do they have cores in them?

    -r
  • scubadvrscubadvr Member Posts: 13
    Mmm... I may have to bid against oclvframe.

    I have used ebay quite a bit and have found it both easy to use and an easy place to find buyers for unwanted stuff that is cluttering the house. If I were to sell a yakima rack, I would do it there, unless you care to sell it privately.

    If you want to sell this privately, I would be interested in buying the towers and the bars. Feel free to email me off the list.

    Good luck,
    Colin
    colinis@REMOVETHISearthlink.net
  • wrobelcwrobelc Member Posts: 45
    Has anyone tried K&N Air Filters on their Subaru's. I've heard a lot of good things about these filters and was thinking of giving them a try but first wanted to get some opinions from other Subaru owners.
  • 99gs99gs Member Posts: 109
    Has anyone installed a Subaru hitch on an Outback? There are two 1.5" holes that need to be drilled in the under skin of the bumper. The instructions are limited as to where they go. There is supposed to be a nut welded to the frame rail to accept the bolts. Any info would be appreciated. Jack
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Really? Is that an OE hitch?

    I didn't think any drilling was required. Sure you're not talking about a DrawTite or HiddenHitch aftermarket model?

    I put one on my Forester, and it took 7 bolts, no drilling, and even included the harness.

    -juice
  • kevindiezkevindiez Member Posts: 5
    Hello, I have a few questions and I hope that someone can answer concerning the Subaru Outback. First of all we live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and our winters here tend to be quite harsh with sometimes over 200 inches of snow. I now have a 99 Jeep Cherokee Classic. I like the Jeep as far as winter performance but I think that the Jeep's ride is quite rough and the vehicle is very noisy (road noise, wind) The lease will be up in a year and we are considering a Subaru Outback as our next vehicle. My wife and I saw one a few weeks ago and were very impressed with the styling.
    Addressing my previous concerns I would like to know how well the outback performs in the snow and how quiet the Outback is. The reason I am asking is because the nearest Subaru dealer is 100 miles away.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    I have a 1991 model and it is a dream in the snow. The boxer engine has a lower center of gravity. This is more stable. Snow is where the AWD really shines.

    They handle so well that my son, just like the Edmonds reviewers, and some of my friends overdrive them, and crash into a curb. The AWD won't be an advantage in stopping. With care you will have the best snow vehicle around.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They are real popular in the snow belt.

    Heck, in parts of Colorado, almost every non-truck is a Subie.

    My Forester is great in the snow. Outbacks add a limited slip rear differential, so they could only be better.

    -juice
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    I agree with MRDETAILER. I have a 2000 OB and it really excells in the snow. We live in the Chgo area and got clobbered last December with an early winter snowstorm. I can honestly say that the Sube was more sure-footed than the '95 Blazer w/ 4WD that we traded in.
    Heck, we just bought a 2002 Forester last night (picking it up today) because my wife wouldn't even consider another vehicle without AWD. I tried to get her to look at other cars, but she just wasn't interested.
    In terms of quiet, it is almost (not quite) as quiet as a V6 Camry. In other words, I think it is both quiet and has a refined ride, not like a typical SUV.
    RR
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    How is the Outback in the snow? My LLBean was excellent in the snow last winter! Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow....
  • 99gs99gs Member Posts: 109
    I do have a Subaru OE hitch. I looked at your install pics for the Forester, but not much applied to this one. Jack
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    don't have the hitch - yet. probably will get one this month or next. now I'm very curious about this.

    I too thought it was a simple install (like juice). Anyone out there already have the OE one installed from the port? Maybe we could have someone take a look and see how it connects and all (pictures).

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats, Ron. As you know, I'm a big fan of Foresters. Which model? Color? Tranny? Drop in the Forester topic in SUVs and let us know. :-)

    -juice
  • wrobelcwrobelc Member Posts: 45
    I'm considering doing a transmission fluid purge on my 2000 Legacy AT (part of 30k tuneup). While speaking with the transmission mechanic who is a friend and quite knowledgeable, he recommended that a solenoid in the transmission be replaced at the 60k tuneup. He thinks the Subaru transmission is quite good but he has had a number of solenoids go out between 80-100k. When this happens he said you are looking at about a 3k transmission job. Since this is a friend, I'm sure he is being quite honest on his experiences and I'm just wondering if many folks with older Subaru's had experienced problems with the Solenoid or if anyone else had heard about this.
  • kem1kem1 Member Posts: 24
    Go with the Subaru or any vehicle with All wheel drive or permanant 4 wheel drive.

    Jeeps can go anywhere, but YOU have to manually put it into 4wheel Hi. The fact is that road conditions change faster than a person realizes. Usually you don't notice that the road has gotten slick until AFTER you have fishtailed once or twice. I have a Jeep Cherokee myself, and with no weight on the back 2 wheels, that back end is very loose (the Jeep's normal mode is 2wheel-rear wheel drive). ANY vehicle with AWD or permanant 4wd is better, on day to day - "on the road" driving, than one with "part-time" 4wd where the driver has put it into 4wheel Hi - either by a lever (the Jeeps) or by a push button.

    I myself, am looking to replace my 1994 Cherokee with an LL Bean Outback. I am tired of the Jeep's buck-board suspension, bad gas mileage, poor highway handling, loose back end, and the loud road noise.

    I want the LL Bean for its H-6 engine, I live in Denver and want it for climbing up I-70 up to the mountains (have season ski pass) (though many H-4's have passed me in my I-6 engine Jeep).

    The Subaru also has a lot more cargo room than the Cherokee and I think just a 1/2 inch less ground clearance. So the Subie will be fine for crawling over snow. Plus a nicer ride and better gas mileage.

    Go with the Subie.

    Kris in Denver
  • paulsgtpaulsgt Member Posts: 30
    I've had many new cars but none with such a strong desire to keep for a long time as the new LL Bean. It now has almost 1,200 miles and I'm wondering when you are doing the first oil change. After the first, I will do them at 3,000 to 3,500 intervals.

    Thanks for the input.

    Paul in MN.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think officially the first one should occur at 3000 miles. I did mine at 1000 miles, but the oil was almost clear when I did it.

    -juice
  • wrobelcwrobelc Member Posts: 45
    I too did my first oil change at 1k. Mechanics I talked to recommend doing the first oil change between 500 to 1000 miles. They indicate that there is always the possibility of metal shavings etc. in a brand new engine and you'd like to get these asap. After the first, I change my oil and filter every 3k as we are involved with a lot of stop and going driving.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    anyone know what the max load a Legacy wagon auto can carry? the manual and website only talk about the gross weight and there is no empty weight I can find to work it out.
  • mybenjemybenje Member Posts: 18
    I am curious if anyone compared the two AWD systems. I am sure Subaru outback AWD is good they have been making it for years and Toyota made a few card with AWD.

    I am trying to decide between both vehicles

    Thanks
  • kturner1kturner1 Member Posts: 33
    Without naming names, I tried the air filter referenced. It was a drop-in panel in my 01 L. I can't say I noticed any power improvement. Perhaps as cam/header/turbo charging improvements are made the filter will matter more.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    1.Outback AWD has a lot of std features than does Highlander. If stack up all the features in HL, you will pay 3-4k more.

    2. Highlander drives like an SUV, Outback like a car. If you are getting a 4cl, I would recommed HL.....Outback 4cl is more sluggish becos of its weight. If you are getting a 6cl...tough choice between the two.

    3.
    Highlander is a wider & bigger car than outback.

    4.
    But Subaru lasts longer than a Toyota ( in my opinion.....parts are more sturdy in Subaru )....Toyota has better resale.....So if you change car soon - toyota....if you want to keep for long - subaru.

    5.
    Subaru - definetely has the better AWD, with limited slip, VDC...Of course HL has the VDC too....you will have to pay more....

    6.
    Subaru's AWD is active rather than reactive ( if you get the auto )
  • kevindiezkevindiez Member Posts: 5
    Thank you so much for the posts! My wife and I will take the 100 mile drive this weekend to test drive an Outback. The Outback sounds like a great vehicle for the snow.

    Thanks again,
    Kevin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    cptplt: I think the payload is printed on the driver's door jamb. If not, it's basically the GVWR minus the curb weight. From a 2000 Legacy catalog I have handy:

    L wagon auto: 3400 lbs
    GT wagon auto: 3505 lbs

    Actually, the Highlander uses the same type of AWD as the manual trans Outback (center viscous coupling). The Outback has the edge because a rear LSD is standard (extra cost option on Highlander).

    The auto Outback has a more sophisticated (and just as effective) AWD system, also with a rear LSD. The VDC is comparable to a loaded Highlander with the VSC option.

    I like the Highlander, but Toyota nickel-and-dimes you for everything. Everything is an extra-cost option, including ABS, AWD, alloys, rear LSD, and a roof rack. My guess is a similarly equipped Outback will cost you a few grand less.

    -juice
  • kullenbergkullenberg Member Posts: 283
    I'm researching replacement tires for my mother's 99 Outback (5 spd) (she's 89!) The OEM tires are about done at 13000 mi. Mich. XW4"s. Using the Tire Rack tools, it points to the Pirelli Scorpion AT's. She does a lot of snow driving, and gravel roads. Any comments?

    Cheers
    Pat in NC
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    Also remember that this on the Highlander, is a NEW System.

    Any 1.0 version will have some unknown bugs.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It has the same AWD system found on the Lexus RX300.

    Bob
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    While at the dealer for an oil change, I saw a wintergreen OB with the hood deflector installed. It actually looked good. Having already had one bad road ding, I bought one (about 80 bucks); very easy to install. Even the wife likes it; makes people think we rough it in the mountins a lot.

    Also, on dealer's recommendation, I switched to synthetic oil (Mobil 1) at 5k miles on H6.

    Mike
  • anibalbanibalb Member Posts: 193
    After reading all these recent prices I am amazed at how cheap you can get outbacks these days. Is it the economy and location??? When I bought mine in Jan 2001 I could not get an LL for less than 27K anywhere. How much are people paying for ltd's these days? Talk about buyer's remorse.....

    In any case I love my limited. I have never test driven the LL because I did not want to be tempted into spending at the time 2K more than for Ltd. But at today's prices I would definitely get the LL. Maybe that will be next.

    I guess I paid the premium of the Bay Area along with wanting a car that week to take to Tahoe the coming weekend. Funny, the Dealer would not even entertain the idea of making less than 1K over invoice. I should go there today. I am sure the story is different.

    So congrats to all of you who are buying them now. You are getting a great car at a great price!!!
  • happyh6happyh6 Member Posts: 13
    I bought a VDC a few months ago and my father has fallen in love with it. Being on a fixed income he is looking at the Outback Sport. He lives in the Toronto Ontario area and I was wondering how much he would have to pay for one. Any suggestions to convince my mother would also be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Paul
  • 99gs99gs Member Posts: 109
    I'm not sure the prices would have been that different. What you paid is probably the going rate in the Bay area. I purchased an LLBean and found that the price difference had to do with location and competition. In my area of Ohio the local dealers wanted between $0 - $400 over invoice. Maryland and Chicago had '01 Beans for $1,300 under invoice. I've talked to many sales people about the pricing. Some just are satisfied to sell fewer cars at a higher markup. Some are in areas where there is a high enough demand for the cars that they can get pretty much what they want. One dealer said that they don't want to give up inventory cheap because of the buyer that comes in for a test drive and wants to take one home. The same dealer however would order an '02 for invoice. Some times it's maddening, but every dealer has their own business plan.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's pretty normal for a supply and demand curve. Especially when the product is new.

    Look at it this way - you could have rented or leased a car in the interim, but it would have cost you a lot more.

    In Canada, prices are obviously different than here in the US. Just for reference, a no-haggle dealer in DC has Outback Sports starting at USD$18,220 for manuals and going up to USD$18,721 for an auto. Considering all that you get (wagon, AWD, alloys, ABS, power everything, etc) it seems like a good value.

    How to talk your mom into it? AWD is a huge plus in Canada. It's about the most affordable AWD vehicle you can get. I guess the Sportage and Vitara are cheaper, but those are older truck-based designs, and you'll make up the difference with great gas mileage and cheaper insurance. Subaru has a great safety record, and long-term reliability ain't too shabby.

    I would also suggest they look at cheaper base Impreza wagons, and even a Legacy L wagon. The latter is listed for USD$18,817 for 5 speeds and start at USD$19,403 with automatic. Just be sure to mention to your mom that the Legacy aced IIHS crash tests.

    Good luck.

    -juice
  • paulsgtpaulsgt Member Posts: 30
    We heard reports of people buying LL Beans for less than $27K, it is very location dependant. Around the Minneapolis area, I considered myself lucky to buy it at $500 over invoice ($28,157).

    Outback vs. Highlander...
    Just remember, you won't find a Toyota dealer discounting a Highlander. I think they are pretty attractive vehicles but I also think you pay a premium for the "T" name. Best of luck!

    Paul in MN.
  • anibalbanibalb Member Posts: 193
    Okay,

    I feel somewhat better. Gees. Paulsgt $28,157 is what I would have paid more or less for a Bean here. I paid 26K for my LTD. I still have the sticker marked $27,500+. I was one of those that brough home the car I test drove. I looked at online orders and I could have saved 500 bucks at the time. To me that was not worth the wait and search for color.

    I guess location does mean something. I just learned that the 10th District of California has one of the highest per capita income. I guess that will do it.
  • ddtyddty Member Posts: 12
    I remember Subaru's Patti posted a message, saying fix for Outback brake squeak available September.
    I called two local dealers. None of them have had any notice from Subaru.
    If anybody have your squeak brake fixed, please post your stories here. Thanks.
  • pduboispdubois Member Posts: 73
    I gave a very serious look at the Highlander and test drove one several times. I really like the plush interior (much more upscale than the OB IMHO).

    However, this SUV drives more like a mini van than like a car to me (as many have reported, drives like an SUV). Perhaps I am not used to the high sitting position? I felt there was too much body roll as well.

    When I drive the OB I don't feel much difference than when I drive my wife's Camry. When I drive the highlander, I feel in a totally different kind of vehicle.

    That's too bad, as I was really in love with the vehicle otherwise!

    Pat.
  • mgiffordmgifford Member Posts: 1
    I have a 01 Bean. LOVE the engine. Problem is it won't hold 60 going up long hills without shifting over and over again. I have put it in 3rd and then it hunts between 2nd and 3rd.
    Seems to me the ratio in third is wrong or the electronic control is shifting it too soon. I even tried setting the cruise at the bottom of the hill at 60 and it will not hold it with out all the shifting back and forth.
    With a 212 horse power engine it should scream up hills. My Explorer which I traded for the
    Bean had no trouble getting over the hill. Any wisdom out there on this?
    Thanks!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Subaru H-6, while not considered "peaky," certainly puts out a lot more power at higher rpm, than down low, or even at mid-range. That, combined with only four gears, and gearing designed more for EPA ratings than real-world conditions, and you end up with the situation you described.

    The engine-transmission-gearing combo certainly needs to be revisited by Subaru engineers.

    Bob
  • wrobelcwrobelc Member Posts: 45
    I just completed a 30k tune-up on my 2000 Legacy. I've not changed the break fluid or power-steering fluid and wonder if anyone has changed these. If so, how much effort was involved?

    chuck
  • brownwjbrownwj Member Posts: 19
    Post 2672 asked a question regarding the need to replace a transmission Solenoid at 60K to prevent Transmission failure. He never got an answer. Maybe in these trying times not as many people have had the interest to participate in the discussions. But I was wondering if any of the Subaru Reps could provide input on this. I had never heard of it and I have been reading this site for about a year.
  • brewerbikerbrewerbiker Member Posts: 1
    My wife and I are plannng to replace our 91 Camry Wagon with an Outback Limited wagon. Drove an auto. and manual today. I like the manual's quicker pickup; the wife has no preference either way. What I am curious about is the differences in the AWD mechanisms between the 2. As I understand it, the manual uses a viscous coupling differential and the power is split 50/50 between front and rear. The auto. uses an electronic clutch emchanism, and the power is 90/10 F/R normally. Which is better, both from a durability and driving point of view? Are there any advantages that should be considered from an AWD point of view? If the two are comparable, I'd rather the manual trans., but if there are other considerations, I'd have to consider the auto. Thanks for any advice.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I personally feel the AT (which has initial split of 80/20) is a better system, because it uses sensors to detect weight shifts (f/r) and varies the torque based on that + driving patterns + other items. The MT AWD is more of a mechanical system, and less variable/more reactive than pro-active.

    -mike
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    I enjoy the 50/50 5MT on our 00 GT wagon when accelerating on dry surfaces. Very different feeling than our FWD 91 Civic (also 5MT).

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

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