Subaru Legacy/Outback

grahampeters · January 2002

G'day

I find it offensive that someone clearly acting as a spruiker for Chrysler products has posted links to the Chrysler Pacifica on boards for the Subaru Outback and also, at least, on boards for the following:

Honda Oddysey,
Mercedes M Class
Lexus RS300

Dont' waste my time!

Cheers

Graham

stever · January 2002

"Spruiker: someone who stands outside department stores armed with pa and microphone flogging goods for a dime a dozen."

Thanks for increasing my vocabulary today :-)

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

paisan · January 2002

That chysler is still FWD based so it wouldn't even be a consideration for me.

-mike

jeffmust2 · January 2002

One'92 Dodge Not-So-Grand Caravan was enough.

canadatwo · January 2002

see:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/autoshow/0201/06/a11-383553.htm

says it is AWD.

If there is enough Mercedes influence, this vehicle should be a touch better than a Neon.

But like you say, still a Chrysler.

paisan · January 2002

It's based on the Town and Country mini-van.

FWD Based
Transversely mounted engine
Quality transmission
and other such great chrysler parts!

-mike

ateixeira · January 2002

Thanks, Paul. I'll call my dealer to see if the parts department is offering those for sale. It was next on my upgrade list. :-)

-juice

fibber2 · January 2002

My O2 OBW has been topped in my office by a fellow engineer who recently bought a WRX. Like me, he had a big grin on his face this morning as the Hudson Valley got it's first real snowfall. It is fun to throw the tail into a spin with a jab of the handbrake, then power out of it in your direction of choice. Remarkable handling & control.

One surprise though. I love ABS, and have had it on my last 4 vehicles dating back to my '90 Camry V6 wagon. But there is no doubt that in some loose surface low traction conditions, ABS will actually increase the stopping distance. With Toyota, you could disable it 'on-the-fly' with a pull on the handbrake. Doesn't seem to work with the Subaru. Short of electrical modifications (which I wouldn't do on a safety related system), any thoughts?

Steve

ateixeira · January 2002

I thought one click with the handbrake worked, but I guess not.

Try using engine braking, by down shifting.

-juice

shortlid · January 2002

My Mother keeps complaining about the large amount of slop from the
wheels and the sides of the car that spays on the pass. and drivers
lower side window, and the side mirrors. Is there any kind of skirt or
shield for the lower mirror housing??

ateixeira · January 2002

That's odd, because mud flaps are standard. Many cars don't have those at all. Is she used to a much taller vehicle, or what?

-juice

shortlid · January 2002

The '98 L wagon she drives does have the factory mud flaps that are smallish and cup forward! I drive it in the sloppy stuff and I have to stop ever 20 miles are so to clean the salt and slop off the mirror and windows.

ateixeira · January 2002

Go with big rally-style rubber flaps, then. They're easy to install, and the Impreza owners I know that RallyCross get them.

-juice

shortlid · January 2002

How much are these flaps and where can I get them??

nematode · January 2002

Now I have seen just about everything. I actually ran home to get my digital so I would have evidence but its was gone. This is no fish story!!!

In front of Blockbuster on Dorsett Rd. in Maryland Heights, MO.

2000 Outback Ltd. (White). Really dark tint all around . IL plates.

17" BBS rims (225/55-17 Pilot Sport AS Michelins)
dropped about 2"
3" chromed tip and some Christmas ham eating eshaust system
Bunch of stickers too (COBB tuning, K&N, CATZ, and so on)

The weird part???? It looked pretty good.
I mentioned that and my wife said: "You do that to my car and you are sleeping alone."

paisan · January 2002

Now thats what I want to do to the VDC Sedan. Drop it and put on larger rims and tires. Then you'd essentially have a legacy GT H6

-mike

nygreg · January 2002

in the OB might not be so bad.

Greg

ateixeira · January 2002

Lowering an OB gives you a Legacy GT! ;-)

-juice

rsholland · January 2002

lowering an Outback H-6 VDC, gives you a Legacy GT H-6 VDC.

Bob

nematode · January 2002

looked nothing like a GT believe it or not. All the caldding and the 2 tone scheme made it look like a whole different animal. Kinda angry waiting to attack looking thing. The reason I first noticed it was the 17" rims. I would have loved to look inside and under the hood so see what other stuff had been one. You cant have a car look like that have have no teeth!!! The BBS rims looked really good with the car lowered. Now, I cant stoping thinking about doing that to my wifes car.....yet I dont want to sleep alone so I'll have to forget it. I bet they cost $300-350 a piece just for the rims. I know the Michelins must have run 2 bills a piece so $500 a corner or $2000 worth of tires and rims or probably more. Thats my guess but I'm not all that into the current prices of rims and tires. Is that about right??? Anyway, It really stood out....similar to the slammed Explorers and JGC I used to see all the time in South Jersey BUT it actually looked good. Has anyone else seen one of these? I did see an OBS with a lift kit once but never any Subaru that looked this "tricked out". The WRX owners seem to be stickng to the stock looks. I have seen several dozen and not a single one appeared to have any visual mods.
Does COBB make lowering kits or are they an engine shop?

ateixeira · January 2002

$2 grand for a premium wheel/tire package like that might even be a bit low, once you add wheel locks, mounting, balancing, shipping and handling.

Cobb Tuning focuses on engines.

Lots of WRXs are being slammed, though. We had "Da Big Meet" in Rockville MD, with over 50 Scoobies, and I had a web page (PhotoPoint is down) with 10 different types of aftermarket rims there. Several were lowered, too.

-juice

ccampbell4 · January 2002

Yesterday I had my first experience in the new Outback of going to the hardware store and hauling back something large. It was a 4x8 sheet of pink foam insulation. It was slightly flexible so fit in, but it was too long to close the hatch. I noticed that there is no tie down point for it. What have you guys done in this case?

ateixeira · January 2002

For rigid cargo, I've used the roof rack for lumber and other huge items. I think my record is carrying two sections of 6'x8' fence! I've also hauled a 21" deep 8 drawer double dresser made of solid wood, still in the box.

The Forester has 4 tie downs inside, and the handles for the roof rack make for perfect tie downs as well. I know all Subies have 3 tether anchor points for child seats, but those are up on the roof. They still might, in some cases, help you secure items, though.

For long cargo next time try folding down the front passenger seat. Remove the front head rest, push the seat all the way forward, then tilt it all the way back. Works in my Forester. The split rear seat is a bonus, too.

Inside, I've hauled an entire swing set, which came inside two really long boxes. The guy didn't think it would fit, but I proved him wrong. I've also hauled a oversized clothes washer, still in the box, and a Yamaha full size organ.

These Subies really can haul.

-juice

subearu · January 2002

My OB also has 4 tie downs in the rear cargo area. I carry bungee cords with me and use them to secure any 'fragile' cargo.

-Brian

sing4me · January 2002

Hi,

I bought my 98 Outback in NJ in October and in November moved to Burlington VT. The car now has about 45K miles. In December we finally got temperatures down to the 30's and my gas mileage (avg 33 mpg) started to drop. It didn't drop and stop, it's kept dropping. I'm getting about 22 mpg now. The car runs smoothly, starts easily, idles quietly. There are no drips on the garage floor. A couple of times I've smelled gas when I start the car. A couple of times after I've been driving at "highway speed" when I drop down to about 40 mph there will be a strange smell that lasts 2-3 minutes.

The dealer service people suggested a throttle-body service, replacing the fuel filter and cleaning the fuel injectors, which sounded sensible to me. Then the service writer says "The mechanic said the gas was funny." Now I wasn't born last night, and this is one of the oldest car-service excuses running. I've bought gas at the same 2 stations (exxon or mobil) since I moved here before Thanksgiving, and the car was running fine until the cold weather started.

My son the Volvo mechanic says it's not the gas, it's a sensor somewhere. I think the fuel system work makes sense in any case. Does anyone out there have a more enlightened opinion?

Elizabeth

aps5 · January 2002

We just test drove the new CR-V, and although it is supposedly much quieter than the old CR-V, it has about double the road noise of the Outback Ltd wagon. So, we have settled on the subie, but I just heard that a new Forester is coming out in a few months, with new design. Does anyone know what is planned, and if we should wait?

Thanks.

ateixeira · January 2002

22mpg is not bad, so my guess is it's just the extreme cold, which has an adverse effect on efficiency. The ECU will take 4-5 tankfuls of gas to get used to the new climate, and after that it should improve. But in general I would not expect to get the same mileage at 17 degrees F compared to 80 degrees F.

My own Forester breaks 30mpg in the summer on some trips, yet manages only 22mpg in extreme cold (last week in DC, for example).

A throttle body service isn't a bad idea, it solved our 626's hesitation problem.

The 2003 Forester is supposed to appear in Canada in February, per one rumor. At the latest, it will appear in late March at the NY Auto Show.

My guess is it'll be a little bigger than the current one, more refined, more rigid. I'm hoping it moves to the Legacy platform, or at least gets the Legacy's rear suspension, or a stretch in wheelbase. The 2.5l ought to remain the same, but for the 2004 model year there will likely be a turbo (sweet!).

-juice

mrdetailer · January 2002

Throughout the country there are over 150 different gas formulations. These are also adjusted seasonally. Less votility in summer, more in the winter. But in the cold flames don't burn so efficiently.

I camp with butane lighters. In the summer the flame on the highest setting will be 2-3 inches high. When snow camping, the same setting barely reach half an inch, and if real cold won't light at all. Similar things happen in winter.

Gas smell aside, 22 MPG in winter isn't too bad. Shouldn't need oxy sensor yet. Does anyone know the normal interval for these?

rangerron7 · January 2002

MRD is right about both different fuel blends and fuel efficiency in winter.
I would be ECSTATIC to get 22mpg in winter.
I have a '00 H4 4EAT OB Ltd and last winter averaged 18-19 mpg. I tracked my mileage for over a year and experienced wide variation between winter and summer mpg.
I live in northeast Illinois where we are served "winter-blend" oxygenated gas which has a definite negative impact on mileage. Do you know if this is the case in your area?
I can't comment regarding what you are smelling and if this indicates some type of fuel leak.
I hope this helps.
Ron

tidester · January 2002

mrdetailer,

I camp with butane lighters. In the summer the flame on the highest setting will be 2-3 inches high. When snow camping, the same setting barely reach half an inch, and if real cold won't light at all. Similar things happen in winter.

That is more a problem of the air pressure inside the lighter being considerably lower when it's cold. Therefore, less fuel is squirted out the nozzle and available for combustion.

It is also true that chemical reactions, generally, proceed at slower rates when the reactants are cold.

tidester
Host
SUVs

seabreeze3 · January 2002

I had an accident with my 97 outback in that lovely snow NY got this weekend. I went into a slow skid coming down a winding country road and hit a tree, dead on in the front center of the car. I think I was going about 20mph. It was hard enough to do more than $6,200 in damage to the car, but neither airbag deployed. Do you think there is something wrong with the airbags?

lark6 · January 2002

And here I'm planning on mounting a set of 225/55-17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on Speedline Prodrive P7's and putting them on my Forester come spring. I will not be changing the ride height, however. Should I reconsider?

Ed

cptplt · January 2002

airbag deployment is triggered by rapid car deceleration and/or the crumple zone collapsing. its possible your crash parameters were in between the thresholds! did the whole front end crumple or just in the middle where the tree hit, if so its possible the sensors which are on the side ie fenders, weren't displaced sufficiently?

c_hunter · January 2002

Chris, if I read your post correctly, you were wondering how to tie the hatch down. I have found that I can run a rope from the roof rack down to the rear tow hook to hold the hatch down. Not the best or easiest solution, but the only one I could think of!

Craig

mdisaacs · January 2002

Seabreeze3 - While reading my MY02 owners manual there were many pages dedicated to when the air bags will/will not deploy and hitting a pole dead center was in the 'unlikely to deploy' category. Page 1-53 under topic Seat,seatbelt and SRS airbags. Sorry to hear about the damage, are you alright? Sometimes pulled muscles etc show up days later...

-Mike

paisan · January 2002

Also I thought they were not supposed to deploy below 30mph?

-mike

leeduncan · January 2002

I ran a bungi strap from the rear wiper (at the attachment to the wiper motor point. I was able to concoct a length that minimized the strain. I guess I wouldn't recommend it, but it worked for me.

Greg in IN

fibber2 · January 2002

The lack of a sensible way to secure a tailgate when carrying an extended load has always befuddled me (having owned 7 wagons/minivans). The vans had pulldown handles that could be used, but the wagons usually require a rope/bungee from the roof rack or wiper motor shaft down to one of the tow hooks under the bumper. On one car I did drill a pair of holes and add eye-bolts, but have not had the heart to do it again since. One would think that the mfgrs of active lifestyle vehicles would see this as a need, and provide you with a hook near the locking latch at the lower center of the inside of the gate.

Steve

paisan · January 2002

Couldn't you use the latch mechanism? Just a thought.

-mike

ateixeira · January 2002

IIRC Bosch says 15k mile intervals for an O2 sensor, but then again they're selling the things. I bet 60k is more like it.

seabreeze: first of all, I'm glad you're here to tell the story, that's all that really counts.

Mike's explanation sound right on the airbag non-deployment.

For the tie-down: the 2001 and later models have a full handle for the hatch on the inside, so you could tie around that. 1998-2000 models only have a wedge, so you'd have to use the wiper, roof rack, or latch. I think I've used the latch to anchor my bungee cords.

-juice

nygreg · January 2002

I have the rear hatch bar on my 01 OB. Not only is it great for closing the hatch without getting dirty or scratching the paint, it works great for a tiedown situation Bar to latch on cargo floor.

Seabreeze - glad your OK. I agree with Paisan, the airbags usually don't deploy below 30 mph. Similar thing happened to me with a Taurus some years ago. I was able to get to a low speed before slamming a car that ran a stop sign. No airbag deployment.

Greg

c_hunter · January 2002

The 2000+ Legacy/Outback just has a "grab" point to use when closing -- no handle or anything (unlike the Forester). And there really isn't anything on the latch you can hook into, even with a bungie cord.

Craig

c_hunter · January 2002

I also posted this in the repair forum, but figured it might get a better response here:

Anybody adjusted a window and/or removed a interior door panel on a late model Legacy or Outback? I want to adjust the rear-door driver's side window on my LL Bean. I am sure it must be a simple procedure. My main concern is how to remove the door panel without exploding retainer clips all over the place. There are always a few things you end up figuring out the hard way when it comes to removing door panels, and it would help if someone else has done it and can offer advice.

Also, any info on how the windows adjust would be great. I want to reposition the glass just slightly, so that it seats in the gasket/molding better when closed. If you were looking at the driver's side of the car, the rear door glass would need to slide horizontally about 1/8 inch towards the front of the car.

thanks,
Craig

ateixeira · January 2002

Sorry Craig, I'm thinking Forester, not Outback. The Foresters from 2001 and later have one.

-juice

ccampbell4 · January 2002

Thanks for the responses. I guess I'll be buying a nice long rope and use the roof rack from now on. There is no place to use on the hatch itself, short of the wiper. If anyone is listening, it sure would be nice to have a tie-down on the bottom of the hatch.

bkaiser1 · January 2002

A few weeks ago I carried a friend's sofa to his house in the back of my Outback with the hatch open...to tie the hatch down I used my car key to "trip" the rear lock (so it thought it was locking around the striker ring (or whatever that ring shaped thing is) and used a bungee cord to hook to the locked-lock to the ring...it was easy and held the hatch perfectly without risking damage to the wiper motor or the paint.

ateixeira · January 2002

Nice, and creative, idea. :-)

-juice

paisan · January 2002

That is exactly what I was talking about earlier, although I didn't explain it so well!

-mike

ccampbell4 · January 2002

That sounds interesting. Does the keyless entry system then unlock it again?

bkaiser1 · January 2002

No, squeeze the gate release just like you were opening the gate up and it will open the latch...hit the "unlock" only if you've locked the doors. When you trip the lock like that, it just thinks the gate is closed so you would open it as you would under "normal" conditions.

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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