Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Subaru Legacy/Outback

1…8182848687…230

Comments

  • jjetsonjjetson Member Posts: 4
    Hi all, have enjoyed reading your posts.

    Here's my story:

    Wife and I bought a Legacy L wagon in 1995. We then lived in upstate NY (now reside in the South)and needed better traction than a 91 Civic SI afforded.

    After 6.5 years and 104K miles, we have only put in $400 for repairs other than routine maintanence. Wasted $600+ on that ext warranty. So now that I think the car is into its nickel and dime phase (needs a water pump for ~$450 at dealer), we're looking at buying a new car.

    We drove the base Outback with heated, cloth seats and OUCH! What's with the sheet of plywood? It was 30 degrees out and I'm not sure that made them stiffer, but it made us think we needed to move up to a Limited to get the leather. However, now it's $3K more than we want to spend and the seat doesn't feel that much better. Only other issue is the front pass. leg room for me (5'11"). Otherwise, this car rides and feels GREAT!

    So now we're looking at a Honda CRV or maybe just going to a Toyota Camry since the AWD isn't important down South... you don't want to drive with Southerners when snow hits the ground!

    We are huge Honda fans and allergic to minivans. Subaru treated us extremely well as far as reliability and durability.

    With only $2000-$2500 worth in trade-in, I might just enter the second century of miles and pay for the occassional part failure. I just hate to pay dealer repair fees.

    What are your thoughts folks?
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    The GT price is at least 2 grand less than a OB LTD but more than the base OB. Or get another L which is even less.
  • aps5aps5 Member Posts: 43
    Paid 300 over invoice; I thought invoice was the target, but I guess not. Is this a good price for LL Bean in NJ?

    We test drove the H4 and the H6, and actually both felt a bit underpowered, the H6 less so. The Bean interior is what sold us - really quite nice.

    Now need to decide on color - timberline or red. Both are great. And, anyone in NJ know of a good window tinting shop?

    thanks..
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    jjetson (Joseph):

    Your call about replacing or keeping - I always start in the "keep" position because I can change my mind later - once it's gone - that's it! I tend to look at reliability (if it's a second car, around-town type, this matters less) and the hassle factor of going upside-down (i.e., being faced with an inoperative vehicle where the repairs exceed its value).

    If you're looking at a CR-V, let me mention a nice vehicle I came across when I was looking a couple of years ago (ended up with the OB Ltd. Wagon) - the Mazda Tribute. Especially if there is only the two of you - it was peppy, fairly inexpensive, nicely appointed - and I believe it came in a 2WD and 4WD configuration. Mazdas have a pretty good reliability rep, too, but I haven't followed this vehicle - you might want an update from CR or Edmunds.

    Depending upon where you are "down South" - you might want a beach-capable vehicle.

    Good luck!

    Ken in Seattle
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    You can usually get within $100-150 of invoice or so on the Bean. The lowest price I found on the internet was at www.fitzmall.com, which was around $100 over. A nearby dealer was able to match that price for me, and I was happy. To be honest, I don't split hairs as long as they get $100 within the ballpark and there are no hidden costs or fees. Fighting over $100-200 on a $30K car is a little too nitpicky for me. I was already saving almost $3000 over MSRP, which is good enough. The only other vehicle I looked at -- Acura MDX -- was going for MSRP+, with no deals.

    My previous Outback was Timberline Green, and I started out wanting a different color just for a change. I really liked Regatta Red, but wasn't sure if it was something I would be happy with long term. In the end, I went with Timberline again (shows you how exciting I am). Regatta Red and Timberline Green are equally nice colors in my opinion, so it will have to come down to your personal preference. I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.

    Craig
  • sibbaldsibbald Member Posts: 106
    I personally do not like them but didn't let that stop me from buying an Outback. With our Toyota, you can just grab anything and push the door shut. If you do the same, you need to, IMHO, get into the habit of not shutting the door by pushing on the window.

    Also, a couple of times I have almost caught my head on the edge of the window when mucking around with the car. You don't quite notice the window edge the same as a framed door.

    Tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tom: true, but it hurts less! ;-)

    Even with my 1300psi pressure washer I use cannot make the frameless doors on my Forester leak. My Miata does, but only slightly.

    I tend to use cruise control only on long trips, so I actually try to vary the position of my feet so they don't get fatigued.

    Jetson: our 626 has reached the nickel-and-dime phase, too, but for us it's more like quarters-and-half-dollars. I say keep your loyal friend a little longer, then shop the L and GT models.

    Tribute had 6 recalls or so, and has not been reliable per CR. Both Mazda and Honda have short, 3 year warranties. Subaru, Toyota, and Nissan are up to 5/60 on the powertrain, if you want to avoid the nickel-and-dime thing for a couple more years.

    aps5: when you are that close to invoice, it's a good price. The key is how you felt treated by the dealer IMHO.

    -juice
  • jas28jas28 Member Posts: 50
    What's the general consensus of the 4 cyl auto Outback? I'm coming from a Saab with 185 hp turbo and am curious to hear people's impression of this engine. Too underpowered or is it sufficient? (I still need to get to the dealer to test drive it, but as the dealer is too far from the highway, it will be difficult to get a good realworld experience.)
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    (the following is just my observations)

    The 4EAT can be conservative at times, but it's an adaptive transmission. So, if you drive it like a grandma, it'll shift sooner (and at lower rpms), causing it to feel underpowered at times.

    The manual does let you control the engine better, and therefore is probably quicker than the 4EAT.

    Our AT Outback has been great. I too thought it might be underpowered coming from a 350 V8, but I was pleasantly surprised. While it's no WRX, it's sufficient for us.

    You should test drive a manual and an auto when you get to the dealer. Also, have you considered the H6 Outbacks? While only offered in the auto, they provide additional power over the H4.

    -Brian
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I would consider the H4/Auto adequate. Lots of low end torque, but, looses some punch at higher revs. If you want to drive aggressively, you need to work the engine (something it enjoys and works happily). The 1-2 shift comes early unless you press the gas. Right now I would say it has been fine for 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time I wish I had more power. The only time I feel I really need more power is when I start moving, get to about 15-20 mph and then floor the gas. The tranny usually doesn't down shift and the engine is in a power lull. Test drive the car and look for these things and let us know your thoughts. Keep in mind that this a bullet proof powertrain, sweet sounding engine and, arguably, the best AWD system around.

    Good luck,
    Greg
  • ccampbell4ccampbell4 Member Posts: 60
    I'm hoping you guys can put my OCD/AR mind at ease. I'm new to Subaru and I know that the boxer engine is supposed to have a different sound and feel than others. I've heard it described as a "growl". I have about 1500 miles on my base 02 4M, and I am still getting used to the sound. My worry is that I've heard some of you mention a knocking problem, and I'm not savy enough to know the difference between a knock and what I would describe as the "gritty" sound my engine sometimes makes, especially when it's cold. Once thoroughly warmed up it purrs nicely, but for several miles and in certain gear/power combinations it seems to make a little more noise. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    The knocking sounds like someone knocking on the front door of your house at a rapid pace. Some had noticed it only when cold. You might also notice a ticking sound. This is on all engines and is your injectors working away (you probably knew this already). I have also noticed the exhaust sound is slightly noiser and at a much lower tone than that of other engines. I kinda like it. And of course, the swooshing sound is your Subaru having fun in the snow. :)

    Greg
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That pre-warmup clatter is common in the H-engines in the subies. So long as it goes away once it is warmed up.

    -mike
  • moonsagemoonsage Member Posts: 19
    I probably don't normally warm up the engine enough before driving off, but I really want this car to last for me, so what's the ideal? Should I sit in the driveway until that warmup clatter goes away & it's purring? Or sit for a shorter while then drive slowly for the first few minutes? Or sit for a minute then take off normally? BTW, normal for me has been pretty conservative in my first 1000 miles, but I'm starting to revert to my slightly less conservative driving style now.

    Thanks!

    Jillian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd let it idle 30-45 seconds in cold weather, then drive it under 3K rpms until the needle lifts off the "C" into the normal range.

    -mike
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    about the warm-up. Studies seem to indicate that conservative driving after a very brief warm-up results in less wear than allowing the car to warm-up more completely. Seems related to varying the revs, much like in the break-in period. Side benefits are that it is more environmentally friendly and wastes less gas.

    Ross
  • k2rmk2rm Member Posts: 205
    The only problem I see with frameless windows is security. Here in CA, there have been a rash of breakins on cars with frameless windows. Several people I know have had their cars broken into. I guess it is very easy to use a screwdriver or something to pry the window open an inch or two and have a hanger unlock the door on the inside. Thiefs have been targeting these types of cars since they are so easy to break into. One person I know that had this happen had to have the entire window assembly replaced because the window would no longer seal properly. Just something to consider.
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    When we were in Jellystone National Park last fall I managed to lock the car with the keys inside, by using the control on the door before shutting it. The first guy to show up from the service station could not unlock the door using his slim jim down the window and got it stuck in there. So the grizzled old boss showed up with a massive plastic box full of car break-in tools and diagrams. He couldn't do it either. Eventually, using a long wire with a hook on the end poked in between the window and the seal he managed to PULL the lock switch back and open it. This took one and a half hours and the boss seemed to be very experienced, but he kept cursing Subaru for the design. It took him another half hour to get his slim jim out. The window did not move out from the seal very much at all and he was concerned about breaking it. When you close the door take a look; the window hits the seal long before the door is closed and is held very tightly against the seal.

    On another topic, I thought I'd share with you an impression of my 00 5spd Outback's emergency handling.

    I was travelling at 45-50 kph in the left kerb lane of a 4 lane one-way street in downtown Vancouver. It was raining as usual, traffic was light and I had green lights ahead for about 5 blocks. I remember thinking that pretty soon one of them would go red in right front of me. About 3 metres in front and in the lane to my right was a Chevy Astrovan or something similar, travelling at the same speed.

    Suddenly, with no warning and only slight slackening of speed (so that I was almost level with his bumper) this bozo hangs a 90 degree left turn into another one-way street! I was unprepared for this, especially as a couple of pedestrians were in the crosswalk of this street anyway. No time to honk, think, panic or do anything except slam on the brakes and haul hard left on the wheel. To my utter amazement the car actually made a tight turn with the ABS pumping and stopped about 1/2 way through the turn, across the crosswalk. The pedestrians had to leap out of the way of the van which went wider than me, but ended up just inches away alongside. I was about to jump out and give this moron a piece of my mind (most motorists do not carry guns in Canada) but he looked at me kind of scared and took off.

    By this time the light had changed and I was blocking traffic, so I manouvered myself back onto my original street and drove away, heart pounding. As I did so one of two guys who had been standing on the sidewalk observing the whole thing said, "Good driving.". I think it was intended as a compliment rather than sarcasm. I didn't respond but thought to myself that I would NEVER have been able to perform that manouver in any other vehicle I've owned, except possibly the Austin Mini. And I didn't even stall the engine.

    Thank you Subaru.
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    That sounds about normal for downtown Vancouver. I'm glad you survived the experience without damage. We do have a reputation as the worst drivers in Canada and I think it's well deserved. So you had a Mini too. I had two, a '68 Cooper and a '76 Mini. You are right about their maneuverability, necessary with poor brakes less than and 1500 lbs. Well done.

    Ross
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nice driving indeed, but having driven across Canada a few times, you guys on the West Coast have nothing on Quebec drivers. Substitute "semi" for Astro and you'd be about there.

    Are you sure you don't wish you'd been in that lemon yellow Pacer listed in your profile instead of the Outback?

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I said worst, not craziest - that title goes to Montreal, no contest. ;~)

    Ross
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    LOL, touché!

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Actually I live in Dutchess (just outside of Poughquag, Town of Beekman) a few miles off of the Taconic Pkwy - but close enough. Both of us are engineers, owned Toyota Camry's (90 vs 92 ?), and I almost bought my OB at Colonial but decided to buy local at the last moment. OB wagons with H4 automatics. And we seem to agree on most things.... Twin sons of different mothers???

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Mike,

    Mine actually has considerable downforce at the outer edges keeping a tight seal on the hood surface by way of the silicon bumpers and the paint protector tape squares they supply. I would call it a successful design.

    Greg, I think I may have mentioned that I used the spare tapes to cover the underside hood edge where the wraparound plexyglass just touches the paint. My OCD at work.....

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Craig, Juice, et al...

    You are quite right about a possible change in design. I had to replace manifold gaskets on my ancient Maxima, and discharged the rail as you described. But thinking about it, when I changed the fuel filter on my Toyota, I braced for sprayed fuel, but got very little.

    I guess pressurization must now occur rapidly enough to give instant starting. Still, EFI injectors yield poor spray patterns if the rail pressure is low, and that sounds like what is at play here on cold starts. I still think that something is not sealing properly when cold and curbing the pumps efficiency.

    Again, my 'old knowledge' may be flawed, but I remember that the Datsun used a loop type rail to maintain volume reserve and pressure. Excess / overpressure was shunted back to the tank by exceeding spring tension on a one way valve. Maybe bad???

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Chris: while adjusting the timing on my Miata, we played with it until we heard knock. To me, it sounds like a wood pecker, pecking away on a tree. Very loud, very distinct. I don't think you have a knock, else you'd be sure of it.

    Jillian: just give it enough time for the oil pressure to build (at least 10 seconds) before you drive off.

    Keith: I saw an Escort that had been broken into in my neighborhood, and called the cops. When they came, we took a close look and the thieves had pried open the door, bending the door frame to get in. So a determined theif will get in anyway, and do more damage while they're at it.

    Insurance rates are about average, so I think the design is sound.

    -juice
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Thanks Steve, I wasn't looking for compliments, just emphasising the handling and balance of the OB. I think the lemon yellow Pacer might have either swapped ends or more likely just plowed straight on. But lousy handling apart it wasn't a bad car. And yes, I am glad it wasn't a semi.

    We have an inch or two of wet snow this morning and my carpool vehicle, a Nissan Xterra, did not impress. Some roads are cleared and wet, others are covered in snow, and there's patches of all sorts in between. He used 2WD all the time because the 4WD is only usable in very slippery or rough conditions, and you have to go very slow to engage or disengage it. How useful is that for commuting?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    True 4WD vehicles are pretty useless on-road if the surface is not slippery enough to compensate for binding. In marginal situations -- such as melting snow or partially plowed roads -- it's a tradeoff between the added traction and it's downsides (difficult steering and unpredictable handling). I have heard numerous calls into Car Talk where people ask why their 4WD vehicles are so hard to steer or have such bad handling in these conditions. A lot of people are shocked to find out that it's actually more dangerous to drive! Definitely a reason why AWD is better suited for the real world.

    Craig
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Like the tape idea for the deflector. Think I'll give a try. Since I work in Hopewell Junction, that makes us closer sons of different mothers. :)

    Greg
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Just put Yokohama Aegis' on my Sienna replacing the Firestone Affinitys. Big difference in snow capabilities. The Firestones were terrible in snow. Even had a real apples-apples test between the two. My sister in-law has the same minivan with original Firestones in good condition. Recent snow fall, we had a hard time getting her minivan up the driveway, but ours went up without any slippage. I would recommend them. The Goodrich M65s also rated high in snow capability (for an all season tire). Check out CRs recent review of tires.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well put, Craig.

    -juice
  • 99gs99gs Member Posts: 109
    I seem to remember someone posting that they put larger wheels on an L Wagon. If I wanted to get an L Wagon rather than a GT, can you put the 16" wheels along with the 225/60 (Outback) tires on the L wagon?
    I believe the GT comes with 205/55 stock. For a second car or for that matter a first, the L has a lot going for it. Jack
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Hopewell Junction.... IBM by any chance?

    Steve
  • roflickroflick Member Posts: 14
    I want to replace the bulbs in the fog lamps of a '01 outback. I refered to the owners manual, but it says that it is difficult and let a service department take care of it. It can't be that difficult. Does anyone know where I can find instructions on this?

    Please help if possible.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would measure clearance to the rear spring base on the L models. I doubt it'll take a tire that much taller than stock. My guess is it would rub.

    Also remember you're changing gearing rather significantly. The Outback has a 4.1:1 final drive, but the L has a taller 3.7:1 ratio, something like that. So you'll slow it down off the line, but get lower revs on the highway. Your speedo would be something like 7% off, too.

    So if you wanted a Plus One, I would recommend GT sizes, 205/55R16, not Outback sizes.

    -juice
  • msheer44msheer44 Member Posts: 1
    I have a '98 Outback Limited. At 46K miles, I had an oil leak that was covered under warranty. Now at 68K miles i have 3 oil leaks that have coat me over $1,500 to repair. Subaru says "to bad". Yes the oil was changed every 3M miles. Has anybody had similar problems?
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Bingo! Actually, IBM is my customer. I use to work for them before the huge layoffs 8 years ago. I jumped ship before the ax came down. Phew.

    Martin - Oil leaks, unfortunately, are a known issue with the "older" H4s (pre 2.5L). I would call 800-SUBARU3 and complain. You might be able to convince them to help out since it only has 68K miles on it and current powertrains are warranted for 60K miles. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

    Greg
  • david55838david55838 Member Posts: 55
    After smacking a curb last week with the LR tire, I took several of your recommendations, and got my '02 OB aligned. As it turned out (if I can trust the tire shop that did the work), the rears were fine - it was the fronts that the toe-in had to be adjusted. Glad I did no major damage.

    David
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    This is an interesting dance. OK, I will go first:

    I work in B/310 - the Analytical Services lab (2-2381). My screen name FIBBER comes from what my team members are called - those of us involved with an obscure corner of the world of physics/chemistry/electrical engineering: Focused Ion Beam (FIB).

    Do you work for the site contractor Johnson Controls, or one of the big tool suppliers like AMAT? We need to get together for lunch someday....

    Steve
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Your email address in your profile is bouncing. You may want to check it.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    to Roflick:

    I had to replace a rock-damaged fog light assembly - access to the bulb is somewhat similar and I believe you'll have to partially remove the lamp assembly to replace the bulb.

    Go up behind the spoiler from underneath to get access to the clips that hold the whole assembly in. As I recall, they look like big Phillips screws (they're similar to the quick release plugs that hold the plastic oil pan shield in place). Pull out the center sections with the Phillips head, then the outer collar, and the fog light assembly should come out for bulb replacement.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I did find your case today. I apologize for the delays - The Representative that is investigating your concern is down with the flu. I'll be calling your dealer to see if something can be done to help you.

    Once again, sorry for the problem and the delays.

    Patti
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    I have just about had enough of the dealer that I have been going to here in Atlanta for service....I guess I am the dummy because I keep going back to them. At issue is my last visit to them. I took the oportunity of my day off on Monday to drop the car off for an oil change (free with the Bean but starting to become not worth it). I also asked for an alignment for two reasons...1) no car comes aligned from the factory and I have been begging them to do this since 3000 mi... and 2) my left front tire was starting to show signs of wear on the outer edge. When I picked the car up I was told that they did not do the alignment since the tire wear was normal and two tire techs looked at the car and it appeared to be fine?!? The next day I took my car to a local tire shop and low and behold...the toe is out more than twice the allowable limit on the left front....hmmmmm.

    This is very annoying. I will probably not use this dealer again (Troncalli in Roswell). My plan now is to take them the before and after sheet from the alignment shop and make them pay for the alignment (it would have been covered by warranty if they'd only done what I'd asked).

    Sorry....I just had to vent my frustrations. I guess here in the South our dealer network is limited as Subarus are about as rare as Bugattis here.

    -r
  • postmodernpostmodern Member Posts: 38
    This is a VERY small world! I work in B/640 as a programmer with ASTC Engineering Systems. This is my 20th Winter reverse commuting on the Taconic from Yorktown to Fishkill, but only my 1st with a Subaru. (It's never too late to see the light! ;-) Greg, I assume that you take the Taconic as well -- where do you get on?

    In 6 short weeks I've put enough mileage on my OBW that it goes to the dealer (Curry) for its 3K oil change on Saturday. I'm happy to report that no glitches have as yet shown up and the ECU has adjusted itself nicely to my lead foot. This car just gets better and better!

    Lyn
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I also had a bad experience trying to get the local dealer to align my first Outback when it was new. They test drove it and thought it was fine. At 15K miles, I paid to have an alignment done ($85), and the car was worse than ever. Plus, they did not get the steering wheel lined up when the car was pointed dead ahead. While getting new tires a few thousand miles later, I got the car aligned at Firestone ($65) and it drove great thereafter.

    The overall experience gave me a pretty low opinion of the local Subaru dealer's ability to "care" about a problem. They didn't try very hard to fix it, and I got the impression they were a bunch of bozos. I was tempted to go back to them and ask for a refund on the $85 they charged me for an alignment, but decided I had better things to do with my time. I now use a different dealer, 50 miles away.

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You will generally get better service from a dealer that is only a subaru dealer. 90% of the subie dealers out there only carry subaru as a side-line, and therefore doesn't staff as many subie techs/trained subaru techs, etc. as they should have. I've found in general a dealer that is dedicated to subaru is one with subaru as their main show or only show.

    -mike
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    Here in Atlanta, there are so few Subaru dealers and each of them do such low volume that they basically have to team up with something else or not survive. I am tempted to go to the dealer that is teamed up with a Cadilac dealer...they may be more service oriented than the one I currently going to that is teamed up with a Chrysler(sic) dealer.

    -r
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    oclvframe, I hear yah on that one. I'd bet the caddy/subie dealer would be a good bet. With my Isuzu I found that a honda/isuzu was better than my toyota/isuzu/subaru dealer and only slightly further away. If the honda/isuzu dealer doesn't work out for me, there is an excellent isuzu/subaru dealer about 50-55 miles away that I'll pursue. Luckily I haven't had to bring it in since the first 3 months of ownership (about a year ago)

    -mike
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Can you please call us? Please have your VIN and ask the Rep. to notify me once a case is started. I understand your frustration and I will make sure it is addressed. I apologize for the rotten experience!

    Patti
  • sweingastsweingast Member Posts: 28
    I would love to add a sun roof on my 97 Outback.

    I don't want to pay $800 for one of those flat roofs that will be behind my head.

    Does anyone know if I can buy an aftermarket flip roof that is not flat like the newer limiteds?

    S-
    Shawn
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles