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Full Sized Vans
Hi. I'm new to these discussions. I had browsed
around some, but have not yet seen a topic which
addresses full sized vans. These seem to be the
step-children of the auto industry, though I'm not
sure why. I'm wondering if anyone else out there
shares my interest in more information on these
vehicles.
My particular interest is in the big
factory-equipped passenger vans (as opposed to
conversion vans). These would be the Ford Club
Wagon, the Dodge Ram Wagon and the Chevy Express
(and its GMC counterpart).
Dealers rarely stock them, they are reviewed in
the press about once every 10-15 years, and it's
difficult to find anyone who can even answer
questions about them.
The main reason for my interest is that I have
been trying to get info on the 1998 Dodge Ram
Wagon. Last February, there was an announcement on
Dodge's web site that the Ram Wagon (and Ram Cargo
Van) are getting their first serious makeover in
quite some time. There was some new front and rear
sheet metal around 1993 or 94, but the basic
structure and interior go back to around 1979
(which was the only serious attention that the
vehicle received since it came out in 71).
Since last February, I have tried twice to get
literature from Dodge's 800 number, and have seen
nothing yet (although I was sent literature on a
Ram pickup, once). Dodge's web site will tell you
all you want to know about a Durango or a Caravan,
but the Ram Wagon featured as a 98 is clearly the
old one.
My wife and I have 3 kids, and we do a pretty fair
amount of carpooling and family travel. Even the
biggest minivans don't have much cargo room when
there are 5 people inside. We bought a 94 Ford
Club Wagon Chateau. Although we have had quite a
few problems with it, we love the basic vehicle and
would not consider anything but another large van.
I don't know why they are not more popular. It
can't be the price. Any decently equipped
extended-length minivan costs as much or more. It
can't be the size or fuel economy. People are
lining up to spend an extra $5,000 or more for a
comparably equipped Suburban, which isn't one whit
more maneuverable or less truck-like than a van.
Ever watch people with Suburbans on vacation? If
they use the rear seat, the luggage and pillows are
always stacked up to completely cover the rear
windows. And my friends with Windstars only get
about 3 more mpg than I do with a 351 V8 and a 3.55
axle.
Anyway, this is a long way of saying Help! I
would like to hear from people who have lived with
the various large vans to see what they like and
don't like about them. Also, does anybody know
anything about the 98 Ram Wagon yet? I thought
hard about one before we bought our Ford. Those
Magnum V8 engines are a delight, but the rest of
the vehicle was hopelessly outclassed by the more
modern Ford. Also, I would be happy to share my
experiences with my 94 Club Wagon with anyone who
cares.
around some, but have not yet seen a topic which
addresses full sized vans. These seem to be the
step-children of the auto industry, though I'm not
sure why. I'm wondering if anyone else out there
shares my interest in more information on these
vehicles.
My particular interest is in the big
factory-equipped passenger vans (as opposed to
conversion vans). These would be the Ford Club
Wagon, the Dodge Ram Wagon and the Chevy Express
(and its GMC counterpart).
Dealers rarely stock them, they are reviewed in
the press about once every 10-15 years, and it's
difficult to find anyone who can even answer
questions about them.
The main reason for my interest is that I have
been trying to get info on the 1998 Dodge Ram
Wagon. Last February, there was an announcement on
Dodge's web site that the Ram Wagon (and Ram Cargo
Van) are getting their first serious makeover in
quite some time. There was some new front and rear
sheet metal around 1993 or 94, but the basic
structure and interior go back to around 1979
(which was the only serious attention that the
vehicle received since it came out in 71).
Since last February, I have tried twice to get
literature from Dodge's 800 number, and have seen
nothing yet (although I was sent literature on a
Ram pickup, once). Dodge's web site will tell you
all you want to know about a Durango or a Caravan,
but the Ram Wagon featured as a 98 is clearly the
old one.
My wife and I have 3 kids, and we do a pretty fair
amount of carpooling and family travel. Even the
biggest minivans don't have much cargo room when
there are 5 people inside. We bought a 94 Ford
Club Wagon Chateau. Although we have had quite a
few problems with it, we love the basic vehicle and
would not consider anything but another large van.
I don't know why they are not more popular. It
can't be the price. Any decently equipped
extended-length minivan costs as much or more. It
can't be the size or fuel economy. People are
lining up to spend an extra $5,000 or more for a
comparably equipped Suburban, which isn't one whit
more maneuverable or less truck-like than a van.
Ever watch people with Suburbans on vacation? If
they use the rear seat, the luggage and pillows are
always stacked up to completely cover the rear
windows. And my friends with Windstars only get
about 3 more mpg than I do with a 351 V8 and a 3.55
axle.
Anyway, this is a long way of saying Help! I
would like to hear from people who have lived with
the various large vans to see what they like and
don't like about them. Also, does anybody know
anything about the 98 Ram Wagon yet? I thought
hard about one before we bought our Ford. Those
Magnum V8 engines are a delight, but the rest of
the vehicle was hopelessly outclassed by the more
modern Ford. Also, I would be happy to share my
experiences with my 94 Club Wagon with anyone who
cares.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
1. I have a personal preference for factory equipped vans over conversion vans, although I may be in the minority. The ratio at every dealer I go to seems to be 20 conversion vans in stock for every factory version. First, I am a diehard used car watcher. It seems to me that properly equipped Club Wagons, Beauvilles and Ram Wagons are hard to find used, and expensive when you find them. It has also been my experience that the value of conversion vans drops like a rock when they become used cars. I have always suspected that the trim work in less expensive conversions have not been very durable in service, but I have no evidence to back this up. Also, all of the conversions that I have seen recently have the rear seats way back next to the back doors, which causes the same luggage capacity problems as in the minivans.
Safety? Good question. My experience may not be representative, but here it is. I am a lawyer who defends personal injury lawsuits for a living. Several years ago, I was involved in a case where my client drove into the side of a conversion van at relatively low speed (20-25 mph?). The van had one of those big windows in the side, and both that window and the passenger sitting next to it wound up on the hood of my client's car. I will say that the passenger was not belted in, and I suppose that this could have been a fluke, but it has been my attitude ever since that I see no reason to try that experiment with my own family. This may just be the uninformed ramblings of a budding curmudgeon, but it is my belief that the engineering departments of the Big 3 have more resources and that the companies have more at stake, and therefore outfit their vehicles with stronger stuff than do the relatively small converters.
2. Although I love my Club Wagon, it is true that I have had more problems with it that a fellow ought to have. I will tell you that I bought mine at one year old from a local Ford dealer which has a rental car business. I bought it with the understanding that it had been used in the rental operation, but it drove properly and looked quite good. Here is my experience.
a. an engine knock which turned out to be the air pump (an emission system component). There was a service bulliten on this, which was apparently a problem with the 351 V8 engine. It was fixed under warranty, although the knock returned. I now consider it in the category of petty annoyance, and haven't fooled with it since.
b.I have had complaints that the a/c air isn't as cold as it should be. I was told that it checked out ok, but then that the compressor failed while they were testing it. (something always sounded fishy about this to me, but Ford paid for it and I didn't care).
c.On the same visit a the a/c compressor, the service advisor told me that the fuel pump was noisy (it kinda was), that the brake rotors were warped (they had pulsated a bit) and that the lower ball joints were bad (I had not noticed any problem here). All were replaced under warranty.
d.I have complained about a periodic squeal from the rear differential. The differential was rebuilt and the axle bearings were replaced, all under warranty. This may have been paranoya due to my lack of prior experience with limited slip differentials, but I wanted to make sure it was on Ford's dime and not mine. The noise is still there, and is apparently just a petty annoyance.
e.At about 50,000 miles, I went in for an alignment and was told that the upper ball joints were shot and needed replaced. About $300.00. Afterwards, I complained that the steering didn't feel right. The dealer got me a steering gear at no charge, and I paid about $150 for labor. Problem solved. It seems to me that if there is an achilles heel to these vehicles it is the front suspension and steering. I ran into a guy with a 95 Ford conversion van who has had constant front end alighnment problems. He claims that two independent shops have told him about an "experimental front end" on some vans, and that it has proved troublesome. I cannot confirm or contest what he says. But Ford did give me a free power steering gear for some reason.
f.A couple of minor problems - a vacuum diaphragm for the rear a/c controls (warranty) and a fanbelt tensioner pulley (about $50). Also a gear shift lever ( about $150) because of the broken wire inside which controls the overdrive cutout.
Some additional comments: virtually every complaint has been repaired with no recurrence, so there have not been nagging, unfixable problems. Second, I have often wondered whether the indicated 20,000 miles at the time of purchase was an honest figure. I believe that odometer tampering is still possible in the 1990s, but I have no proof of it. Finally, it uses no oil at all between changes, always starts in the coldest weather and has never left us stranded anywhere.
I like to think that my experience has been unusual. Several people in my circle of family and friends have had good to excellent service records on other models of Ford cars and trucks.
3. My wife likes the large size just fine. She got used to it pretty quickly (even after dirving a Honda Accord before) and would not be interested in anything smaller in the forseeable future.
4. I would not get a V6 in a vehicle of this size. Mine weighs about 5000 lbs, and needs all the engine it can get. Some may find the 351 to be overkill ( the new versions have a 5.4 liter V8 now), but I can't stand underpowered cars. Anyway, I have no fear on an entrance ramp to a crowded highway.
5. I have no info on conversion companies, other that several are located in northern Indiana.
I hope this message was not too long. All in all, I have been happy with my Club Wagon in spite of its problems. If I had it to do over, I might have looked for one with the 2 rear bench seats instead of the Chateau with the 4 captains chairs. The bench seat version seats 8 instead of 7, and the benches may work better with small kids (mine are 5, 3 and 2).
I will also confess to a long term love affair with the big Dodge van. However, I elected not to buy one because shoulder harnesses were only provided on the drivers side of the rear bench seats. Also, the inside was kind of on the antique side, convenience wise. I'm waiting to see what the 98 will be like. I have learned that the official intro date on the 98 dodge is late December.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
discussion. Although I can't recount personal experiences involving ownership of larger
van types, I did pull together articles covering some of the vehicles in which you are
interested . Notice that all of these do not cover '98 models but I included them anyway.
Hope this is of some value.
For info on
Dodge
Ram Wagons ,
Chevy
Vans ,
, or
GMC
models .
which I understand is just about the size of a full
sized van. I love my van, at least the size of it,
Although we found out after we bought it that it
was made in a lemon model year. It also doesn't have
sholder harness seats in the back benches. But it
has a great amount of head room and good storage.
I can get a stroller and two bicycles in the rear
without taking out a bench.
I would love the 1997 Aerostar, but my husband and
sister feel that since the recall, and since it's
the last model year anyway, that I should get
something else. It's also very difficult to find!
I saw the Ford Mark IV in the showroom and it had
less storage than my van! The Caravan and the Windstar
are too small.Even the Expedidtion doesn't have any
storage! (As If I could buy it anyway!)
Is the GMC Safari Passenger as large as an Aerostar?
How about some of the others?
In 2 1/2 years I have had the starter recalled, the
transmission and air conditioning worked on twice,
the exhaust system done; oil pan, brake cylinder,
wiring system replaced. At 77,000 miles, I think
it's the time to sell, but what to get?
Thanks
If anyone here has recent experience, good or bad, with any Glaval Vans (Universal (Ford), Gladiator(Chevy), Autoform (GMC), or Travel Time (Dodge)) your input would be appreciated. We are more interested with stories of the quality of the conversion components rather than the vans themselves.
Thank you in advance!
When you click on this link you will create (spawn) a new window. To return to this page click on the "X" in the top right corner of your screen. You can also reach this discussion by going to it directly from the list of topics featured in the Vans Conference.
(I am trading in my Olds Silhouette, 160K miles essentially trouble free, which we have outgrown)
I have a '95 Dodge RAM Wagon I am trading for a '98. Just closed the deal a few days ago. My van has 41K miles and no major problems in the last three years. And I think the new double sealed front doors will eliminate the air noise I experienced when it was windy. But the vehicle has been reliable! It has NEVER failed to start on the first turn of the key . The 225 horsepower engine provides plenty of power . And I'm sure the Dodge will give you as more quality for less the Ford or Chevy.
We will most likely buy a 98 Club Wagon HD XLT (the 12 passenger version) because of its heavy duty suspension. My wife insists on the Ford because she doesn't like the looks of the Chevy (and I agree.) Because no dealer has these vans in stock (and a search has found none), I will be ordering one soon.
This raises a dilemma for me- I am considering ordering the V-10, rather than the 5.4 liter V-8, because the V-10 has a lot more torque and about 30 more horse power. However, I haven't been able to find any Ford vehicles with V-10s to test drive. So it looks like I'll have to make a buying decision before I drive the vehicle.
Does anyone out there have any info on the V-10 that would help me make my decision? Thanks.
P.S. I also had problems with the front suspension for the first three years that I owned my van. It would go out of alignment easily and wear out tires in no time. The solution was very straight-forward: I replaced the front springs and all shocks with heavy duty models at a Midas shop. Since that time, I have never needed an alignment and my tires wear evenly!
Clubwagon (XLT, 705A, std. GVW)with a 4.6L V-8. Will order soon. The mods I will be making include a 4" dropped floor(to eliminate hi-top and have ability to drive from wheelchair if required later), wheelchair lift, reduced effort steering and brakes, hand control, etc. My questions are as follows:
1) Does anyone in this forum drive such a vehicle?
If so, is there substantially more road noise than
a standard van?
2) General maintainability - is the Ford reliable?
3) How is the acceleration with the 4.6L? What highway MPG do you average?
I rented a 1996 wheelchair-lift E-150 in New Orleans last summer. This was superior to my current vehicle, a modified 1989 Dodge B-250, which is loud and crude.
Enjoy.
Go the the subject ''98 Dodge 2500 Ram Wagon' in this forum. MJK
RW
Thanks a lot for the info, especially about the new rebate program. I have been waiting to make my special order, because I had heard nothing about new rebate programs from Ford.
I will also be making a special order and hope to be able to make a deal as good as yours. I plan to call around to the various dealers within a hundred miles or so and see who'll give the best price on my factory order.
I intend to order the Club Wagon XLT HD because I want the 12 seat capability and stronger suspension. Mine WILL fit in the garage if I remove a 1 by 4 decorative header.
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments of full-size vs. minivan. Although more costly at the fuel pump and difficult to park, the full-size are much more useful in every other way.
The GM twins do have an extremely powerful and strong drive train (Plus for Towing), yet the fit and finish is unexcusable in a new vehicle.
My Ram van has excellent power and is much more versatile than a mini-van. My only major complainant is the wind noise during high cross
winds. The Bottom Line is - the Dodge Ram Van is just a good value for the dollar.
I wish to echo your sentiments, right down to the wind noise during high cross winds. Mine is a '95 B250 Ram Wagon that I am really satisfied with. However, since the new '98 Ram Wagons promise many new innovations including double sealed doors and elimination of vent windows to aid in eliminating wind noise, I am trading in my '95 for one of the new '98's. It won't arrive until mid to late February and I will post the pros and (I hope there aren't any) cons on this board.
I will be getting my 8,000 mile "used" 1994 Dodge Ram Conversion Van. It will have the 5.2 liter V8 but I have to put in the rear seating. Any recommendations? What kind of gas milage can I expect? Though discussed elsewhere on this list, how will the rear passengers do with only a front end a/c and heating source? (No one mentioned how the Dodge would do). Thanks for any info. I never had a full sized truck before and wer'e kind of excited (compared with minivan life we had before). Any more things we should be aware of? Thanks very much. compared to minivan travel?
First of all, you '94 should have the re-tooled 318 which included multiport fuel-injection and 220 horsepower. You will have plenty of power with this combination. You should be able to get 11-14 mpg in the city and 18-20 mpg on trips with this engine. Rear air/heat is a nice option to have, but in its absence, you/your passengers won't fry/freeze if you don't have it. Especially with a conversion van where the front vents heated or cooled air will flow directly back between the two front pairs of bucket seats!
I think you will really like your full-sized conversion van compared to a mini-van. I recall that '94 was the first year for the redesigned, more streamlined front end too!
One more thing. If 8000 miles is the correct reading, the van was probably one used for vacation trips. It practically new!! I'd explore through Chrysler, the dealer or Warranty Gold, if you could pick up some sort of extended coverage. Why the original 3Yr/36000 mile warranty expired due to the Year factor! How often does that happen?
Thanks
rwf07@aol.com
If I understand your question concerning "loose rear-end" correctly, I believe your wondering about traction (or a lack of). Over the past 6 years I have driven a GMC Safari, GMC/Starcraft short wheel base, Chevy/Tiara regular wheel base, and for the past month a Ford/Coachmen regular wheel base. All four vehicles were/are rear wheel drive with standard rear axle differentials. I live in suburban Detroit. I have found that these vans are no more difficult to drive in snow, rain, etc. than the front wheel drive cars I drove previously. Additionally, when it snows in this area, the snow is cleared from the roads rather quickly. To maximize traction, I recommend using good all season radial tires. Avoid the sporty, high performance tires like Goodyear Eagles. The GMC Safari came equipped with these tires and I found they wear more quickly, and traction dropped significantly. The new tires I put on that van were all season radials and the difference was like night and day. Also, for improved traction, you might consider changing the differential to a posi-traction or limited slip differential. When I checked into it for the Safari, I decided it was too expensive. About $700.00. By comparison to minivans and cars, you will also notice that your full size van will have a greater sensitvity to wind, particularly cross winds. Use care when driving in windy conditions on slippery road surfaces.
Jerry
thanks for your information and cautionary advice regarding windy driving conditions. I never would have thought this would be a concern with a full size truck. I should be getting the van next week now that my loan has come through. I believe that the van has all weather Michelins (nothing fancy) but I don't think it has the limited slip differential.
The original owner did install an ampheremeter over the steering wheel though I'm not certain of its function (to check how the battery is maintaining its charge? Do you know how to read this?)
In the rear the owner also installed an AC-DC converter. What is this exactly? If its for running accesories (someone told me) how does it get recharged? Does this allow me to run lights, music, while sitting in the van without the engine running? (But again, how would one recharge it?)
Thanks for info. Charlie.
as well, but we're in the market for a used one,
around the years 93-95. We want something that'll
be great for camping and long hauls. We're in the
military and love to travel.
Any advise on what to get/stay clear of for those
years, what dealerships/areas to avoid (i.e. avoid
Staten Island--we're in Brooklyn), better deals for
the money, etc. We'd prefer a high top, bed in
back and TV/VCR for sure.
If anyone's in the general area selling his/her
van, we'd love to hear from you too with the details
of what you have for sale.
Thanks for any and all tips!
JMBL
P.S. Haven't had a chance to read ALL the responses in this category, so if what I've asked for is a repeat, forgive me...
Needless to say, I've not been here in awhile. The ammeter in your van should give you a measure of the rate of power consumption being drawn from your battery. For more info on its use you may need to talk to an electrical expert. The ac/dc box is a power inverter. It will invert the dc battery power to ac household current. The power output of the unit should be marked on it somewhere, usually in watts. A unit with continuous output of 300 watts or more is a handy accessory. A 300 watt unit should power a 13" color TV and a vcr. I believe (confirm with an electrical expert) that to estimate the power requirement of an accessory that doesn't have its rating marked in watts, multiply its amp rating by 10 to determine approximate watts, i.e. 13" color TV might have a 13 amp rating and the vcr a 6 amp rating. A total of 19 amps would equal about 190 watts. The inverter may be wired in such a way as to permit you to run ac equipment without the engine running. To avoid running your battery down too low, you will need to know the amp hour rating of your battery and monitor power usage when the engine is off. The ammeter probably will show your consumption rate in this situation. The van may also have a device that will automatically shutdown the inverter when battery power is reduced to a specified level. I'd check with the seller on these issues.
Jerry
Thanks again for the feedback. I think I'm going to have to do some homework. I will try to use the I-net to track down some further infor. on inverters and the like. I could probably track down Trailer Life/Good Sam type addresses which I haven't done yet. I really like the feel of the full-sized truck though compared to the minivan. The ride is smooth,and relatively quiet. Real powerful feel too. Tires are Michelin, I think MX4s? which feel pretty good. I will also search local 'salvage' places to get my seating which I see can be pretty expensive. Thanks, Charlie (runner)
You might want to see my post #33 in this topic, if you haven't yet done so.
Jerry
You're welcome! I hope it turns out to be a great vehicle.
Jerry
thanks
sbas
The mpg you quote is quite impressive. My Ford 4.6 Triton only avg 12.5 on the 1st 1300 miles and has avg 14.5 from 1300 to 3400 miles. I am still hopeful that it will improve to about 17 after fully broke in. Like you, I have been quite pleased thus far on both the (Coachmen) conversion I have and on the '97 Ford E150 chassis.
Jerry
I had the same problem with my Ford 302cc when I lived in Colorado. The carb needed a "high altitude" kit to run in the mountains where the oxygen is thin. I remember having it floored and doing 25 miles per hour at 8000 feet. Once the kit was installed it ran OK.
The type of vehicle that I am trying to find out about is like a Freightlines FL50 or a GMC W4. I will be looking forward to any kind of feedback.
Thanks,
is the 6 cyl engine okay for this van or
should i go with 8 cyl.. i'm a heating and cooling contractor so the weight i carry is not tremendous.