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Comments
I'm hoping the 2005 re-design is whisper quiet. After 45K flawless miles (knock on plastic wood), this is by far my most reliable car ever (vs. Camry, Accord, Buick, VWs I have owned - all over 150K miles). My only minor minor tiny tiny gripes with the car are:
- heavy understeer (but it has never come close to slipping - and I guess the new shock/spring design took care of that)
- highway road noise (>55 mph)
- two-tone paint (so 90s)
- lack of a diversity antenna (to pull in distant stations - my 92 Camry had one as part of an upgraded 6 speaker stereo option!)
But again, I'm being real picky. The car is unbelievable in all aspects - reliability, safety, performance, durability, repair/parts costs, etc....
Ralph
and the occasional snow...
Ralph
The 2000 Outback did gain refinement, and the H6 models have both a quieter engine and more insulation.
I have not driven a Lexus recently, but we did sample a Camry SE. The LL Bean we drove was definitely more hushed. I'd put the Camry somewhere between our Legacy and my dad's OBLtd in terms of overall noise.
-juice
Greg
I rode in a coworker's Avalon a few weeks ago, and it was nice, but not noticeably smoother than the Bean. I would expect the Avalon to be a notch better than the Camry.
So yeah, I stand by Lexus-like statement. The H6 engine and longitudinal layout is hard to beat for smoothness and quiet. It's certainly more refined than recent FWD/V6 platforms I have sampled.
Craig
-Will
-juice
I also own a Lexus, so can perform daily comparisons. The result is that my wife and I have put far more miles on the Bean than we have on the Lexus in the two years we've owned the Bean. And, we share each car equally for commuting to work, so the choice of cars is made for the fun driving.
Steve
I always thought my 92Camry was built unusually well. It was basically in the same shape when I sold it 9 years later at 160K miles (my 4 yr. old daughter cried when we sold it - to a friend).
I have to admit I haven't driven a Lexus since the 99 RX300 model...so...I take back what I said. We love our Bean anyway so it doesn't matter...
Ralph
The mechanic (who has won many awards from Subaru and is very sharp) said the H6 plugs are double platinum tipped and should go to around 90K - not the recommended 60K. He said to wait until I feel performance slip. Also said all of the H6 plugs he has taken out at 60-70K have looked brand new. Seems like good advice - he has been right on everything else with our Bean so far.
He also said "they will make you bend way over when it comes time to change them". Apparently the engine has to be lifted up to change them. Anyone get to changing their H6 plugs yet?? Condition of plugs/price??
Mechanic also told me all 2005 U.S. market Subarus will be turbo charged. I didn't like hearing that, but he said they are more reliable than other turbos because they are triple cooled - water, oil and air (with the new hood air scoop).
Also learned the H6 pcv valve is a lifetime part (because it is impossible to get to), Japanese H6 engine is belt-driven vs. the US chain driven (also a lifetime part), and the wrx sti is actually 290+ horsepower, but Subaru listed it at 250 to avoid lux tax.
He told me 2 proud parents came up to him to ask him what he thought of their purchasing the sti for their 17 yr. old son. He asked them if they bought a coffin too. He then proceeded to give them the name & number of a special racing driving school their son should go to before taking the car out. Said otherwise he'll have it wrapped around a tree within 2 months. Has anyone seen the tires on that puppy - they screem summer from 40 feet away. I'll have to test drive it...
Sorry for the ramble...
H6 tuneup stories??
Ralph
Craig
Statements like that make me even more leery of dealership personnel; a mechanic spewing that kind of misinfo (however harmless it may be in this case)is not encouraging. Lux tax? Not anymore, and when there WAS one, it surely was not levied based on HP numbers. 250 hp? Subaru's claiming 300hp for the STi. Ugh.
Ralph: that's a myth about needing to pull the engine to change the plugs. You don't. I'm not sure if anyone has changed their own plugs, but surely someone has had a tuneup.
Japanese H6 belt-driven? They are made in Indiana and shipped there, I don't see why they'd be different.
STi is rated at 300hp, not 250. Subaru managed to avoid a tax by removing the stereo to get weight down, a story confirmed by Patti.
This guy seems to be full of errors, you might want to ask someone else to work on your car! LOL
-juice
a set of lowering springs and KYB AGX should set you on your way to a H6 VDC GT
Or, when they become available, a set of PRAXIS coilovers
PRAXIS
-Dave
No offence was intended, and apologies to all.
(But I do like my Bean!)
Steve
Jon
Thanks,
Ralph
Also, I suggested to him that he consider a whole new head unit (w/CD) from a WRX or the like. Anybody put one of the newer heads in a last generation Legacy/OB?
Steve
here's the write I did and idahodoug's too
hypov Jun 15, 2002 7:47pm
idahodoug Jun 16, 2002 12:43am
I did a WRX 6CD swap into my '98 OB and it works just fine.
However, in the case of my install, I ran into the problem of the harness not having enough slack to plug the new head in. Ended up removing the vents and the control module for access to plug the unit in.
Oh, the socket for the WRX unit is on the left whereas the OB unit is on the right, which made it even more challenging with limited slack.
-Dave
Have a nice weekend...
Steve
It should be very similar, though.
The plood from the earlier model interchanges perfectly, did that myself.
-juice
Craig
She'll be doing 60 on the freeway and suddenly the check engine light will be flashing, there's no power (even floored), the engine runs rough (bucking) and the rpms are very high (~5000). If she makes it to the side without being killed she can turn it off and restart. Then it's OK except the check engine light is on steady.
Our dealer never finds anything wrong except the computer says there was a misfire. Of course they've gone all over the ignition, replaced oxygen sensors and so on. They've even tried to remove any carbon buildup on/near the intake valves with compressed air. We drew the line at replacing the heads since the dealer won't guarantee that that would fix anything.
Just now on the radio my wife heard that we're not the only ones with this potentially fatal intermittent. Apparently it's a known problem but Subarau and the dealers have been playing it down. The radio program said that they don't know the fix but it doesn't happen on Subarus after '96. The radio guy guesses that it's an unfixable transmission problem.
Has anyone heard of this? I happen to own an identical '95 Outback (manufactured a few days later than hers) but mine has never done it, not once. Anyone have a fix or similar experience?
Sincerely, Spickynitz
ECU or sensor problem maybe
I just did both oil filters today, the one in my 03 Forester and my wife's 03 Outback and noticed the area around where the filter screws on is slightly different.
I thought it was the same in engine in both. Not that it matters, just curious.
Thanks
Larry
Some observations for the DIY crowd out there -
1) at 7300 miles it was filthy. 7500 would have been okay, but 10k would have been too many - juice may remember the picture of my Forester's filter - this was almost as bad.
2) More involved than the Foresters to change. Arrgghh. About 7 light duty screws, two hex head screws, one harness connector, and the lower center console trim panel. BTW - the trim panel uses a plastic push-screw at the far end, not a clip.
3) There's two pins that control the drop on the glove compartment door, and you really need to squeeze the compartment to get those to clear - don't try to force them from the inside, they're clipped in.
4) On the plenum door, one harness connector for the ballast resistor and 4 clips . Then the door pulls down for filter access. Reinstall is the reverse.
4) To reinstall the glove box, start with the harness, then unless you have four hands, I recommend slightly screwing in the two hex head screws and letting them take the weight while reattaching the center console trim.
5) Its mentioned in the instructions that its a good idea to remove the two guide pins and reinsert them when you're done. I can see those pins not making it past the 6th or 7th change.
All in all it took me about 45 minutes being super careful. Next time should be a half hour. I hope.
HTH
Larry
Craig
Thanks, Jim
As for the fuel requirement, I would recommend using premium grade fuel. It has been my experience with my Outback H6 that using premium fuel will create more power (According to Subaru, the engine produces only 207 HP with regular, 212 with premium). I have also noticed that it runs smoother, and fuel mileage is slighly better with premium.
The engine is also 'tuned' for premium fuel. Premium fuel burns more slowly, which allows cylinder pressure to build progressively to higher levels. Injection, ignition, cylinder position and more are timed to take advantage of premium fuel, and in some cases, can be damaged by extended use of regular fuel.
The cost really isn't that much more, and there are too many benifits to justify using regular fuel.
Have fun with your new Outback!
Maybe Subaru of Canada says 207hp, or maybe the fuel in Canada is different. ;-)
-juice
But I figure there is a reason Subaru recommends premium so see no reason to try anything else (although I wouldn't hesitate to use it in in a situation where premium is unavailable).
Enjoy your new ride, I sure do like mine.
Steve
Jon
Steve
-juice
As an example, you know those big speed bumps, the gradual ones that only slow you down? I have to go 20-25 in my Miata else I bottom out, my dad's Outback blows by then at 40 and actually handles them better even at that speed.
Skid plates are probably not necessary, but they sell an OE rear diffy protector and Primitive sells a front one for a couple hundred, so yes, you could even get those.
That warranty issue is often debated. They sure can build loyalty by taking care of their customers over the life time of the car. And honestly, I don't see how they can make significant profit off a 7/70 warranty for $700. The roadside assistance it outsourced, and that company charges $284 for those extra 4 years alone. Subaru has $416 to cover rental/loaner expenses and repairs for the extra 4 years over the standard B2B warranty. So, they are estimating an average of just $104 per year in repairs in the case of that warranty.
Subies are reliable so maybe they do make a profit, who knows.
-juice
The rear differential protector is a joke. If you look under the car, you would loose several major components (exhaust system, etc.) before hitting the rear differential. Unless you have a habit of backing up over large boulders...then you may need to protect the rear differential ...
Ralph
Greg
Many portions of the exhaust, and even the structual front cross member (which I've used as a jacking point) are lower.
For full protection, you'd need the front skid plate and another to protect the fuel cell, too.
-juice
I always put 91-93 octane in my LL Bean. One time, my wife put in 89 when she had the car (we use 89 in the Forester). I could tell the difference right away, enough to ask her what kind of gas she put in. The car just felt like it had a little less of the silky power feel. A few HP off peak is no big deal (who often drives at the peak HP anyhow?), but the effect over the whole RPM range is what I noticed most.
Craig
1) Kicked up stuff can break your diffy, kicked up items will likely not harm your exhaust system
2) If the diffy gives way 25 miles deep on a trail, you need that to get you home, however if your muffler comes off, it's not imperative to the operation of the vehicle.
-mike
But dropping perhaps $500 on underbody protection is overkill. The car will treat you fine in a rough urban environment. One thing I would suggest is that you avoid models with low profile tires and expensive alloy wheels.
IdahoDoug
-mike
Somehow, I think I may be the poster to these boards who has greatest potential hazard for underbody. My Outback does go off-road, on farms and bush tracks and on to Construction sites (almost bogged this morning, in fact). Australian bush tracks are markedly rougher than Chicago streets.
I have also run over a tree that fell in front of me.
The only damage I have suffered after 65,000 miles is a slashed drive shaft boot. Diff has never had problems and plastic guard under sump has a few scuff marks but nothing else.
I'd spend the $500 on something nice for yourself.
Cheers
Graham
The diffy protector is $80, even less, IIRC. A front skid plate starts at $200 or so. A little more for aluminum, but still not $500.
-juice
I felt they are a good investment, since I have "lost" the plastic shield underneath once. I also feel that with all the junk lying around in the city, I would rather have added protection. I have occasionally taken the OB onto dirt roads and prefer to be cautious.
Mark