Subaru Legacy/Outback

otis123 · July 2003

I wouldn't go that far - except maybe in the reliability category! The overall ride of my 2001 LLBean (feel of steering, engine, drivetrain, etc.) is refined and smooth (=luxury/near luxury), but it is not Lexus-like quiet. My 1992 Camry LE (which I sold to get the LLBean) was slightly quieter than the LLBean at cruising speeds.

I'm hoping the 2005 re-design is whisper quiet. After 45K flawless miles (knock on plastic wood), this is by far my most reliable car ever (vs. Camry, Accord, Buick, VWs I have owned - all over 150K miles). My only minor minor tiny tiny gripes with the car are:

- heavy understeer (but it has never come close to slipping - and I guess the new shock/spring design took care of that)
- highway road noise (>55 mph)
- two-tone paint (so 90s)
- lack of a diversity antenna (to pull in distant stations - my 92 Camry had one as part of an upgraded 6 speaker stereo option!)

But again, I'm being real picky. The car is unbelievable in all aspects - reliability, safety, performance, durability, repair/parts costs, etc....

Ralph

otis123 · July 2003

BTW, it's on dry and rain-soaked pavement that the AWD shines...

and the occasional snow...

Ralph

ateixeira · July 2003

Your '92 Camry was before cost-cutting ran rampant with asian cars. They only recently started adding the content back.

The 2000 Outback did gain refinement, and the H6 models have both a quieter engine and more insulation.

I have not driven a Lexus recently, but we did sample a Camry SE. The LL Bean we drove was definitely more hushed. I'd put the Camry somewhere between our Legacy and my dad's OBLtd in terms of overall noise.

-juice

nygreg · July 2003

Keep in mind that tires have a major impact on noise. My Dunlops have worn very uneven and sound like truck tires now. I expect the car to be much quieter tomorrow after the new tires are installed. (got them yesterday)

Greg

c_hunter · July 2003

I drove the Lexus RX-300 and Acura MDX back to back with the Bean, and it was easily in the league of those two, if not better (MDX was kind of noisy in my opinion).

I rode in a coworker's Avalon a few weeks ago, and it was nice, but not noticeably smoother than the Bean. I would expect the Avalon to be a notch better than the Camry.

So yeah, I stand by Lexus-like statement. The H6 engine and longitudinal layout is hard to beat for smoothness and quiet. It's certainly more refined than recent FWD/V6 platforms I have sampled.

Craig

willoc · July 2003

I just bought a VDC wagon about 2 months ago. the stereo is awesome it sounds much better than the Bose stereo i had in my Infiniti QX4. I'm real happy with the gas mileage compared to SUV (got 26 mpg on a recent trip) and it is quieter and handles better than any SUV out there. If you have any other questions about the VDC let me know. It launches great you can slam the throttle on a dirt/gravel road and it won't even break tires loose!! only time traction control kicks in is if you accelerate and turn a corner at the same time. straight line = mega traction
-Will

ateixeira · July 2003

Pilot is bigger and cheaper, and a better value overall, if you like those.

-juice

wilkich · July 2003

I have a 97 Outback and we need a basic tune up. I can't stomach the dealer high cost for servicing and had a bad experience at the Oakland dealership. Can anyone recommend an auto shop in SF or Oakland?

ncvol · July 2003

Thanks for the info on the VDC. My head right now is telling me that the VDC is the best overall value for what I want from my next vehicle, but I'm going to have to see what happens when I test drive all of them and sit in the seats. I've already had the good fortune to take an Outback on a "test drive" that was much more intense than any dealer would let me do, so the VDC already has a leg up on the competition. I'd like to get a luxury/near-luxury feel out of the interior of my next car as well, and I'm hoping the interior of the VDC is comparable to that of the Passat Wagon, Saab 9-5, Volvo XC70, and Mercedes E320. I know it won't be as plush as the Mercedes, but any Mercedes I would be getting would be 3-4 years old anyway. If it's anywhere close to these others, then the VDC's "rough and ready" character and reliability will probably carry the day for me.

ffsteve · July 2003

I also tested the Bean back to back with a Lexus RX300. Bean won hands down for driving experience, and was on par for noise.

I also own a Lexus, so can perform daily comparisons. The result is that my wife and I have put far more miles on the Bean than we have on the Lexus in the two years we've owned the Bean. And, we share each car equally for commuting to work, so the choice of cars is made for the fun driving.

Steve

otis123 · July 2003

I should no better than to even slightly dis my Subie Bean on this board! LOL!

I always thought my 92Camry was built unusually well. It was basically in the same shape when I sold it 9 years later at 160K miles (my 4 yr. old daughter cried when we sold it - to a friend).

I have to admit I haven't driven a Lexus since the 99 RX300 model...so...I take back what I said. We love our Bean anyway so it doesn't matter...

Ralph

wepperson · July 2003

My '03 Outback H6 VDC sedan is a very good car, but hardly "Lexus-like". For one thing, the comparable Lexus is the ES300, which is awful for torque oversteer, almost as bad as the Infiniti I30/35. But the ride comfort and quietness of the Outback don't approach the Lexus, nor my old A4 Quattro. And the handling has always been disappointing--yeah, I know it's a "sport utility sedan" and not set up for sport touring sedan handling like the A4, but I wish it was. I'd hoped they'd drop the H6 in a Legacy GT and put leather and climate control on it, but instead they're going the STi route, blowing the 2.5 H4. I'm too old for the really high performance experience, just want a luxury AWD sport sedan at a good price. The Mercs and Beamers are too expensive, the Jag is underpowered, and the local Audi dealer bites, so I settled for the Outback. It's pretty decent.

otis123 · July 2003

Had my front/rear differ. fluids changed last night for the first time - 45.3K miles (both clean - no metal on bolt). Good news.

The mechanic (who has won many awards from Subaru and is very sharp) said the H6 plugs are double platinum tipped and should go to around 90K - not the recommended 60K. He said to wait until I feel performance slip. Also said all of the H6 plugs he has taken out at 60-70K have looked brand new. Seems like good advice - he has been right on everything else with our Bean so far.

He also said "they will make you bend way over when it comes time to change them". Apparently the engine has to be lifted up to change them. Anyone get to changing their H6 plugs yet?? Condition of plugs/price??

Mechanic also told me all 2005 U.S. market Subarus will be turbo charged. I didn't like hearing that, but he said they are more reliable than other turbos because they are triple cooled - water, oil and air (with the new hood air scoop).

Also learned the H6 pcv valve is a lifetime part (because it is impossible to get to), Japanese H6 engine is belt-driven vs. the US chain driven (also a lifetime part), and the wrx sti is actually 290+ horsepower, but Subaru listed it at 250 to avoid lux tax.

He told me 2 proud parents came up to him to ask him what he thought of their purchasing the sti for their 17 yr. old son. He asked them if they bought a coffin too. He then proceeded to give them the name & number of a special racing driving school their son should go to before taking the car out. Said otherwise he'll have it wrapped around a tree within 2 months. Has anyone seen the tires on that puppy - they screem summer from 40 feet away. I'll have to test drive it...

Sorry for the ramble...

H6 tuneup stories??

Ralph

wepperson · July 2003

My '03 Outback H6 VDC sedan is a very good car, but hardly "Lexus-like". For one thing, the comparable Lexus is the ES300, which is awful for torque oversteer, almost as bad as the Infiniti I30/35. But the ride comfort and quietness of the Outback don't approach the Lexus, nor my old A4 Quattro. And the handling has always been disappointing--yeah, I know it's a "sport utility sedan" and not set up for sport touring sedan handling like the A4, but I wish it was. I'd hoped they'd drop the H6 in a Legacy GT and put leather and climate control on it, but instead they're going the STi route, blowing the 2.5 H4. I'm too old for the really high performance experience, just want a luxury AWD sport sedan at a good price. The Mercs and Beamers are too expensive, the Jag is underpowered, and the local Audi dealer bites, so I settled for the Outback. It's pretty decent.

c_hunter · July 2003

If I remember right, and this is a big "if", the plugs are good for 90K or 100K miles on the H6. I could be confusing it with something else. It's in the Bean/VDC owner's manual, but I drove my WRX today :-)

Craig

bkaiser1 · July 2003

"...wrx sti is actually 290+ horsepower, but Subaru listed it at 250 to avoid lux tax..."

Statements like that make me even more leery of dealership personnel; a mechanic spewing that kind of misinfo (however harmless it may be in this case)is not encouraging. Lux tax? Not anymore, and when there WAS one, it surely was not levied based on HP numbers. 250 hp? Subaru's claiming 300hp for the STi. Ugh.

wepperson · July 2003

My '03 Outback H6 VDC sedan is a very good car, but hardly "Lexus-like". For one thing, the comparable Lexus is the ES300, which is awful for torque oversteer, almost as bad as the Infiniti I30/35. But the ride comfort and quietness of the Outback don't approach the Lexus, nor my old A4 Quattro. And the handling has always been disappointing--yeah, I know it's a "sport utility sedan" and not set up for sport touring sedan handling like the A4, but I wish it was. I'd hoped they'd drop the H6 in a Legacy GT and put leather and climate control on it, but instead they're going the STi route, blowing the 2.5 H4. I'm too old for the really high performance experience, just want a luxury AWD sport sedan at a good price. The Mercs and Beamers are too expensive, the Jag is underpowered, and the local Audi dealer bites, so I settled for the Outback. It's pretty decent.

ateixeira · July 2003

WC: it's flattering to the Outback that you even mention it in the same sentence as all those luxury cars.

Ralph: that's a myth about needing to pull the engine to change the plugs. You don't. I'm not sure if anyone has changed their own plugs, but surely someone has had a tuneup.

Japanese H6 belt-driven? They are made in Indiana and shipped there, I don't see why they'd be different.

STi is rated at 300hp, not 250. Subaru managed to avoid a tax by removing the stereo to get weight down, a story confirmed by Patti.

This guy seems to be full of errors, you might want to ask someone else to work on your car! LOL

-juice

hypov · July 2003

wepperson-
a set of lowering springs and KYB AGX should set you on your way to a H6 VDC GT

Or, when they become available, a set of PRAXIS coilovers
PRAXIS

-Dave

ffsteve · July 2003

I reread my post above on the comparison. Much too stuffy, I intended a more lighthearted response!

No offence was intended, and apologies to all.

(But I do like my Bean!)

Steve

jlemole · July 2003

There's a post over on scoobymods on changing plugs on an Impreza. It requires some creative wrench extensions, but not impossible. I would imagine the H6 is no different, just 2 more plugs?

Jon

otis123 · August 2003

I better watch him more closely. His work has been excellent, so far. But that's a lot of information errors...

Thanks,

Ralph

fibber2 · August 2003

One of the guys in my office asked me for help with removing a dead CD player on his '99 OBW. I have .pdf copies of the instruction sheet on the '00-'03 models, but not on the last series. Anybody have, or know where I can get a copy? Always leery of breaking 4 yr old plastic because I don't know where the hidden screws or clips are!

Also, I suggested to him that he consider a whole new head unit (w/CD) from a WRX or the like. Anybody put one of the newer heads in a last generation Legacy/OB?

Steve

hypov · August 2003

Steve-
here's the write I did and idahodoug's too

hypov Jun 15, 2002 7:47pm

idahodoug Jun 16, 2002 12:43am

I did a WRX 6CD swap into my '98 OB and it works just fine.
However, in the case of my install, I ran into the problem of the harness not having enough slack to plug the new head in. Ended up removing the vents and the control module for access to plug the unit in.

Oh, the socket for the WRX unit is on the left whereas the OB unit is on the right, which made it even more challenging with limited slack.

-Dave

fibber2 · August 2003

Thank you! I will copy & send this over to Bruce.

Have a nice weekend...

Steve

ateixeira · August 2003

As far as the center console, it changed starting in 2002, that's when the 2 cupholders moved down near the hand brake. So 2000-2001 had no cup holders, then 2002+ had two.

It should be very similar, though.

The plood from the earlier model interchanges perfectly, did that myself.

-juice

c_hunter · August 2003

2000-2001 models had one cupholder near the hand brake (in addition to the one that popped out of the dash).

Craig

spickynitz · August 2003

My wife's '95 Outback has done this very scarey thing 4 or 5 times in the past year or so.

She'll be doing 60 on the freeway and suddenly the check engine light will be flashing, there's no power (even floored), the engine runs rough (bucking) and the rpms are very high (~5000). If she makes it to the side without being killed she can turn it off and restart. Then it's OK except the check engine light is on steady.

Our dealer never finds anything wrong except the computer says there was a misfire. Of course they've gone all over the ignition, replaced oxygen sensors and so on. They've even tried to remove any carbon buildup on/near the intake valves with compressed air. We drew the line at replacing the heads since the dealer won't guarantee that that would fix anything.

Just now on the radio my wife heard that we're not the only ones with this potentially fatal intermittent. Apparently it's a known problem but Subarau and the dealers have been playing it down. The radio program said that they don't know the fix but it doesn't happen on Subarus after '96. The radio guy guesses that it's an unfixable transmission problem.

Has anyone heard of this? I happen to own an identical '95 Outback (manufactured a few days later than hers) but mine has never done it, not once. Anyone have a fix or similar experience?

Sincerely, Spickynitz

cptplt · August 2003

doesn't sound like a tranny problem at all. radio guy is wrong on that one.
ECU or sensor problem maybe

lfdal · August 2003

Does anyone know if the 2.5l engines in the 03 Outbacks are supposed to be "exactly" the same as in the 03 Foresters?
I just did both oil filters today, the one in my 03 Forester and my wife's 03 Outback and noticed the area around where the filter screws on is slightly different.
I thought it was the same in engine in both. Not that it matters, just curious.
Thanks
Larry

lfdal · August 2003

I just changed the cabin air filter on the wife's 03 Outback wagon - decided to do it 200 miles early as the weekend weather's been kind of iffy around here.

Some observations for the DIY crowd out there -
1) at 7300 miles it was filthy. 7500 would have been okay, but 10k would have been too many - juice may remember the picture of my Forester's filter - this was almost as bad.
2) More involved than the Foresters to change. Arrgghh. About 7 light duty screws, two hex head screws, one harness connector, and the lower center console trim panel. BTW - the trim panel uses a plastic push-screw at the far end, not a clip.
3) There's two pins that control the drop on the glove compartment door, and you really need to squeeze the compartment to get those to clear - don't try to force them from the inside, they're clipped in.
4) On the plenum door, one harness connector for the ballast resistor and 4 clips . Then the door pulls down for filter access. Reinstall is the reverse.
4) To reinstall the glove box, start with the harness, then unless you have four hands, I recommend slightly screwing in the two hex head screws and letting them take the weight while reattaching the center console trim.
5) Its mentioned in the instructions that its a good idea to remove the two guide pins and reinsert them when you're done. I can see those pins not making it past the 6th or 7th change.

All in all it took me about 45 minutes being super careful. Next time should be a half hour. I hope.

HTH
Larry

c_hunter · August 2003

I don't know if the engines are exactly identical (I'd suspect they are slightly different), but the filters are the same. On auto transmission cars, there is an oil cooler mounted inline with the filter, so the filter mount looks a bit different between auto and 5-spd models.

Craig

oregonaj · August 2003

According to the owners manual our new 2003 Outback 6 cylinder uses premium fuel but can use regular in a pinch. I'd be interested in which one others are using and what kind of difference it makes?

Thanks, Jim

sebberry · August 2003

Congratulations on becomming a Subaru owner!

As for the fuel requirement, I would recommend using premium grade fuel. It has been my experience with my Outback H6 that using premium fuel will create more power (According to Subaru, the engine produces only 207 HP with regular, 212 with premium). I have also noticed that it runs smoother, and fuel mileage is slighly better with premium.

The engine is also 'tuned' for premium fuel. Premium fuel burns more slowly, which allows cylinder pressure to build progressively to higher levels. Injection, ignition, cylinder position and more are timed to take advantage of premium fuel, and in some cases, can be damaged by extended use of regular fuel.

The cost really isn't that much more, and there are too many benifits to justify using regular fuel.

Have fun with your new Outback!

ateixeira · August 2003

Jim: SoA said the H6 makes 208hp on regular fuel, so you lose 4hp due to timing retardation. Most people don't notice that slight change.

Maybe Subaru of Canada says 207hp, or maybe the fuel in Canada is different. ;-)

-juice

ffsteve · August 2003

I've always used premium in mine. Don't know that I would even notice 4 or 5 HP decrease if I switched to regular.

But I figure there is a reason Subaru recommends premium so see no reason to try anything else (although I wouldn't hesitate to use it in in a situation where premium is unavailable).

Enjoy your new ride, I sure do like mine.

Steve

jlemole · August 2003

I'm pricing the Subaru Gold warranty and I'm curious what others have paid. The dealer I bought from quoted me $1000 for a 5/100k w/ $100 deductible. The dealer I go to for service quoted me $1500 for the same (wow!?!). Does the first price sound fair, or can I do better? Thanks.

Jon

fibber2 · August 2003

I sent you an e-mail to your comcast address.

Steve

ateixeira · August 2003

Price sounds about right to me. There is a big difference between the retail and wholesale price of that warranty.

-juice

ateixeira · August 2003

Are they more rugged? Absolutely. Outbacks have a long travel suspension with a little more ground clearance than your average car. That gives it a smooth, very tolerant ride.

As an example, you know those big speed bumps, the gradual ones that only slow you down? I have to go 20-25 in my Miata else I bottom out, my dad's Outback blows by then at 40 and actually handles them better even at that speed.

Skid plates are probably not necessary, but they sell an OE rear diffy protector and Primitive sells a front one for a couple hundred, so yes, you could even get those.

That warranty issue is often debated. They sure can build loyalty by taking care of their customers over the life time of the car. And honestly, I don't see how they can make significant profit off a 7/70 warranty for $700. The roadside assistance it outsourced, and that company charges $284 for those extra 4 years alone. Subaru has $416 to cover rental/loaner expenses and repairs for the extra 4 years over the standard B2B warranty. So, they are estimating an average of just $104 per year in repairs in the case of that warranty.

Subies are reliable so maybe they do make a profit, who knows.

-juice

otis123 · August 2003

At 45K miles, I've only used premium in my LLBean and have had zero problems...so, no idea if regular would be OK. I asked myself back in 2001 - why would the Subaru engineers specify premium if they didn't think you needed it?

The rear differential protector is a joke. If you look under the car, you would loose several major components (exhaust system, etc.) before hitting the rear differential. Unless you have a habit of backing up over large boulders...then you may need to protect the rear differential ...

Ralph

nygreg · August 2003

I think the rear diffy protector is good insurance considering the cost of one (installed myself) and the cost of replacing a diffy, although I don't think it is necessarily needed. As for ride, I am amazed at how well this car handles dirt trails and rough pavement. Really absorbs bumps well.

Greg

ateixeira · August 2003

is not the lowest point, but it may be the costliest one if damaged.

Many portions of the exhaust, and even the structual front cross member (which I've used as a jacking point) are lower.

For full protection, you'd need the front skid plate and another to protect the fuel cell, too.

-juice

c_hunter · August 2003

The Outback definitely has a good suspension when the going gets rough, off-road or in the city. Probably on par with the best SUVs on-road, but handles considerably better than any of them. So yeah, it ought to handle those rough roads with aplomb.

I always put 91-93 octane in my LL Bean. One time, my wife put in 89 when she had the car (we use 89 in the Forester). I could tell the difference right away, enough to ask her what kind of gas she put in. The car just felt like it had a little less of the silky power feel. A few HP off peak is no big deal (who often drives at the peak HP anyhow?), but the effect over the whole RPM range is what I noticed most.

Craig

paisan · August 2003

A few reasons it's there:

1) Kicked up stuff can break your diffy, kicked up items will likely not harm your exhaust system

2) If the diffy gives way 25 miles deep on a trail, you need that to get you home, however if your muffler comes off, it's not imperative to the operation of the vehicle.

-mike

idahodoug · August 2003

You guys make me laugh - out loud. Chicago roads are rough, no doubt about it. But I think skidplates and diff protectors are a bit much to recommend, frankly. The Outback is an excellent choice in any environment, but more so if the roads are harsher than the norm.

But dropping perhaps $500 on underbody protection is overkill. The car will treat you fine in a rough urban environment. One thing I would suggest is that you avoid models with low profile tires and expensive alloy wheels.

IdahoDoug

paisan · August 2003

That's the other thing doug, out here we often get ice chunks and "walls" of ice that the plows will plow up, this can cause significant underbody problems IMHO.

-mike

grahampeters · August 2003

G'day

Somehow, I think I may be the poster to these boards who has greatest potential hazard for underbody. My Outback does go off-road, on farms and bush tracks and on to Construction sites (almost bogged this morning, in fact). Australian bush tracks are markedly rougher than Chicago streets.

I have also run over a tree that fell in front of me.

The only damage I have suffered after 65,000 miles is a slashed drive shaft boot. Diff has never had problems and plastic guard under sump has a few scuff marks but nothing else.

I'd spend the $500 on something nice for yourself.

Cheers

Graham

ateixeira · August 2003

Doug: they're not that expensive.

The diffy protector is $80, even less, IIRC. A front skid plate starts at $200 or so. A little more for aluminum, but still not $500.

-juice

bat1161 · August 2003

Actually the skid plate package (front and rear diffy) in 3/16" for OB goes for $340 at Primitive. If it stops raining long enough for me to get to my friends driveway, I will be putting them on. Hopefully in time for Sunday's Drive in PA.
I felt they are a good investment, since I have "lost" the plastic shield underneath once. I also feel that with all the junk lying around in the city, I would rather have added protection. I have occasionally taken the OB onto dirt roads and prefer to be cautious.

Mark

Subaru Legacy/Outback

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles