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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    While it's relatively compact, the entire engine (sans transmission) is in front of the axle. That also deters decreasing the rather large front overhang.

    DaveM
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    I'm confused from that article. Is it just the Outback Sedans that are getting altered, or the wagons as well?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Both. The sedan would set a precedent so it's given the most attention.

    -juice
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    Got it. Thanks
  • momrita1momrita1 Member Posts: 2
    We have found a dealer with a brand new 2003 Legacy Wagon for 21,000 taxes, tags included, but with the 2005 just coming out and with lots of 2004's left on everyones lots would this still
    be a good buy at this point, It comes with the full 3 year 36,000 Warranty
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    What model Legacy? For an L, no - I think overpriced. For a GT, probably OK. Any additional stuff on the sticker to sweaten the deal?

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That price is way high.

    You should be able to find a 2004 35 Anniv. Ed. for $19k (5 speed) or $20k (auto) for starters. A 2003 L/SE is a year older and should be worth less than that.

    I bet what happened is the incentives on the 2003 expired and the dealer is stuck with it. The 2004s have incentives so they might actually be cheaper to buy.

    Go with a 2004, for less, or wait for the 2005 Legacy 2.5i.

    -juice
  • momrita1momrita1 Member Posts: 2
    What would be a fair price for a 2003 Legacy Wagon basic wagon, with Passive Alarm, dealer offered us 21000 including taxes tags and rebates-HIgh??? What would you offer, we keep our cars till they die, so we do not anticipate getting rid of it in the near future.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Including taxes? How much are taxes there? If it's an automatic that sounds like a fair price, at least.

    -juice
  • coifmocoifmo Member Posts: 3
    Guys:

    Following up on the posts a few days ago, a statement from NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council) on the Subaru Outback fuel economy move reported in the NY Times.

    Has every indication of being aimed purely at ducking fuel economy rules (you don't need truck classification to change the approach angle on the car), and comes off as a major affront to the company's cultivated image.

    Headline is 'Go Truck Yourself'. Link is here:
    http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/040114a.asp
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Many, many links can be found under Owners Clubs, Subaru Crew Future Models.

    -juice
  • magchasemagchase Member Posts: 16
    My wife's LL Bean (V6) Outback, 2001, with only 15,270 miles, is experiencing some difficulty starting at times. The battery is fine. Cold or hot weather (Lancaster, PA) is not a factor, only the problem occurs when the vehicle has set for a period of time (overnight, while at work, etc.). The car will crank for an extended time and try to start (as in sputtering) and "might" then start after 30 seconds or more of cranking. It had been checked for this one previous time to no avail. Well, it's going back in on Wednesday evening. This time, I'm coming home with a loaner and I don't want to see it until something is diagnosed correctly. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks, everyone, for any advice, suggestions, etc.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would suggest you prime the fuel pump before trying to start it - i.e. turn the key to the On position but wait until you hear the full "whirr" noise before cranking it.

    You could have condensation in the gas tank. Kate had that and a can of DryGas helped hers.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    If memory serves correctly, the ECU on LLBeans were reprogrammed, but not for this issue. You can also try turning the key and let the fuel pump pressurize your fuel line before starting; 1-2 seconds. That has helped some people. 30 seconds is a long time, so probably not related. 15,000 miles in 2-3 years? I'd complain too. ;)

    Greg
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    so Brenda is teaching you speed typing. right?

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No but I did get the same keyboard she has. :o)

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Juice and Greg have it right. On the Bean, it's important to pressurize the fuel system before starting. If you do that, I guarantee it will start right up every single time.

    Craig
  • canoeistcanoeist Member Posts: 12
    With 30K miles on my 2002 LLB wagon I noticed a air leak noise started. At first I thought it was coming through the window gasket along the leading edge of the driver's window, but could not locate it by applying pressure to the rubber seal. I found that it is coming from the seal along the edge of the tweater speaker. When I press in on the thin rubber gasket, pressing it against the window glass, the air leak noise goes away. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem. I'll be taking the car in soon for it's 30K maintenance and would like to get this fixed while it is there. Other than this, and two recalls (for undercoating that was missed and parking rod replacement) the car has been excellent. Thanks for any advise you can give me!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Ask them to adjust or replace the "gusset", that's exactly the part you are describing.

    More info: http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/gusset/

    Craig
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I was able to "bend" the gusset a few millimeters towards the window from the inside. This seemed to help.

    G
  • stevieb3stevieb3 Member Posts: 1
    I am considering an Outback Limited but given the comments on this board cannot decide if I should just wait for the 2005 now. Are we talking about a huge difference in price? And if I wait a bit longer can I still get a 2004 with what I want? Mainly basic cloth seats and a 5-speed. One more thing- am I to understand that the moonroof does not fully open (i.e. it tilts up), but that the 2005 will have a sunroof that one can fully open? I know that’s a small thing but I do like those sunroofs…

    Sorry if these are "basic" questions. Any help is appreciated.
    Thx.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    will be forthcoming on 2/5. As to pricing, reported ~ 5% increase max. The front of the moonroof will tilt up and the back part will slide back into the roof.

    There are loads of images of the new Outback (non-US-spec) all over the Internet, including here at Edmunds. If you go to Edmunds "Subaru Future Models, " and scroll back to ~ the 9/03 time frame, you will images and/or links. This is from Subaru's Global site, showing Euro-spec Outbacks:

    http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/outback/index.html

    Bob
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Canoeist - the air leak is the gusset as others have described - dealer fixed for no charge on my '02 Bean and it is whisper quiet now!

    Magchase - I had similar starting problem on my '02 Bean around 7k, and I used the Techron gas/fuel system additive/cleaner (~$8) and it cleared it up after a tankful. I think I had some moisture (gassing up in the rain no doubt). Has been fine for a year now (25k on odom). I also think the priming helps as others pointed out - esp. if car has sat for some time.

    Matt
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    My 0.02.

    G
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The 00-04 sunroof has two full size sections. The front (over the front seat) tilts and the rear (over the back seat) slides open.

    The 05 also has a two-piece design, but the sliding section is further forward, over the front seats. The tilting part is smaller. Much nicer layout.

    Personally, I would wait for the 05 models. They look a lot nicer inside and out. Definitely a more modern design.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    stevie: I would definitely wait. Cloth 5 speed Outbacks are not rare, they are abundant. When the new model arrives in dealers, they'll be cleared out.

    So you can see the new model, or pay less for an old one. It's win-win. You may be limited on color choices, but I'm sure you'll find a cloth MT5.

    -juice
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    I'm in the same situation as stevieb3, except I am looking at the base Outback because I don't want a moonroof. Will there even be an '05 base model with no moonroof? From the pictures it looks like the '05 Outback Wagon will have only roof rails and not the crossbars. Is there anything else of note being dropped for '05? I do like the looks of the '05, but I imagine there will be good deals on the '04's in the next few months.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    V40 is just a Mitsubishi Carisma by another name, made in Holland. V50 will share a platform with Ford/Mazda but at least Volvo was involved from the start.

    I kind of doubt the US-spec Outback will not come with cross bars. They always have, and they're trying hard to differentiate it from the Legacy.

    -juice
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    coifmo's post really struck a chord with me.
    http://www.nrdc.org/media/press releases/040114a.asp
    In the past I have been a regular contributor to the NRDC, but I found the Go Truck Yourself article to be very heavy handed and unfair. And how can organization that promotes social consciousness use such thinly veiled obscenity in the title of a press release?
    They were seeking letter to legislators to deny Subaru's re classification request. Instead, what NRDC received from me was a letter criticizing their methods and cancelling my membership.
  • canoeistcanoeist Member Posts: 12
    Thanks to everyone for the information on the gusset, I appreciate you taking the time to help. Hope I can return the favor in the future!
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    stevieb3,

    If you want cloth seats, a 5 speed and a moonroof, I think you'll need to wait for an '05. I don't believe that cloth seats and a moonroof are offered together from the factory in the '04 Outbacks. Moonroofs start with the Limited model, which has leather seats. The base H6 has cloth, but comes standard with an automatic transmission, and no moonroof.

    FWIW, we have a 2003 base Outback wagon with cloth and a 5 speed and it's a great car. I'd personally grab an '04 just that way, and enjoy the $$ savings, even knowing that the "new and improved" '05 is just around the corner. Just my two cents.

    Len
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There was hype for a day or two, but it died down already. CAFE is a big joke.

    -juice
  • subarujonsubarujon Member Posts: 13
    On the way to work this morning on the interstate...out of the blue...something invisible hit my windshield with a kaabang! I was not following any big rigs, etc. Now I have a nasty 1' diameter crazed edge hole in the windshield. I have a '03 LL Bean Wagon with the heated windshield wiper area. I am concerned about the availability and replacement cost of this windshield (my comprehensive deductable is $100). I thought I would check with the Subaru group before talking to my insurance company.
    Thanks.
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    I had my 02 LL Bean windshield replaced by Safelite Glass which was recommended by AAA. The replacement windshield also has heater filament for wiper which look exactly like the original windshield. Make sure the person who replace the windshield must wear glove to avoid contacting the epoxy with the oily hand which can result in windshield not being adhere to the windshield frame. There was a segment about windshield replacement by ABC News where improper installation could lead to a life treatening injury during accident. I can't seem to locate the link anymore. That is my 0.02.

    Alland
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's a link that refers to the 20/20 story:

    Shielding More Than Wind (the ABC link looks down)

    and an industry link about the story:

    National Glass Association

    Steve, Host
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Fresh from rally victories around the world, Subaru is taking the next logical step in its quest to dominate the racing wagon world -- it's going gardening. The company says it's hooking up with the rowdy crowd at the National Gardening Association (NGA) to promote the benefits of gardening.

    Subaru will be the official vehicle of National Garden Month in April of this year, and in conjunction will sponsor the Get Gardening Giveaway -- in which one hundred winners will each receive a $100 gift certificate to the NGA Garden Shop to buy plants, tools and supplies for their gardening needs, as well as a free 12-month membership in NGA."

    (source: Edmunds Wagons Newsletter)

    Steve, Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, that's our demographics, all right.

    -juice
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Jon -

    I had the windshield on my 2K OB Ltd (with the heating elements, etc.) replaced by Safelite in the Seattle area nearly three years ago. They procured the OEM part from Subaru and installed it perfectly - no problems since. They are a contractor for my insurance company.

    Ken in (unbelievably wet) Seattle
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    2 broken windshields! A small nick in our Forester's, and a larger nick in our Explorer's, which two days ago (due to the ice build up, and the defroster running full blast with hot air) became a crack going the full width of the windshield.

    Allstate has arranged to have a glass company come to our home next Wednesday and have them both replaced on site. let you know the results.

    Bob
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Subaru will be the official vehicle of National Garden Month in April of this year, and in conjunction will sponsor the Get Gardening Giveaway -- in which one hundred winners will each receive a $100 gift certificate to the NGA Garden Shop to buy plants, tools and supplies for their gardening needs, as well as a free 12-month membership in NGA

    Whoa, sounds like Subaru is hooking up with some real wild and crazy people!

    Actually, I shouldn't talk, I probably spend half of my weekends landscaping and gardening....

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Me too. Can't wait for spring. You should see my veggie gardens.

    Bummer Bob. I think comprehensive covers it, usually you pay $100 deductible (each, though).

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No deductible. It's a freebie. My rates may go up though? Obviously I hope not...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not sure. While it is a claim (the dreaded "C"), it's not like your driving was at fault. So maybe not.

    -juice
  • peggyloupeggylou Member Posts: 40
    Hi everyone, I was reading Edmunds descriptions of what each trim level adds, and they reference getting a 3 yr maintenance pkg included if you step up to ll bean trim. Went to subaru.com and could not find any reference to this. Has anyone here heard about this, or could it just be an oops in the Edmunds description? If it is true, it is probably worth the extra dollars to go up to ll bean, it isn't that much more than limited, and you would also get 6 cyl engine.

    Also, anyone compare Outback to VW Passat? Saw and loved Passat this weekend, but reliability reviews really give me pause. Would like to wait for 05 Subaru but need car soon. Any idea when the 05 will be out? Dealer is playing dumb here.

    Thanks!!!
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    The "free" 3 yr maintenance package is no longer part of the LL Bean package for MY04.

    DaveM
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    There's a whole thread devoted to this subject:

    blackbean "VW Passat vs Subaru Wagons" Nov 7, 2003 12:13pm

    As for when the 2005's hit the dealerships, the scuttlebut is that it probably will be around June, give or take a couple of weeks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You can get a deal on the 2004s, FWIW. I've seen LL Beans for $26k or so, not bad for AWD, ABS, heated leather, wood/leather steering, 2 moonroofs, 16" alloys, etc.

    Price a Passat 4Motion out that way, it's about $32k!

    -juice
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    The 3 years maintenance package is only good for oil change and tire rotation for every 7500 miles, except the first one is at 3750 miles. Tune-up is not included in the package. Since I hate to wait, I do the oil change and tire rotation myself. Too bad, the coupons are non-tranferable. I would have love to exchange the coupons for oil filters only.

    Alland
  • peggyloupeggylou Member Posts: 40
    Am looking at limited vs ll bean. Does the 6 cyl really have to have premium gas? Do any of you run it in reg and if so, how is it working? Any pinging? Would love to have the bigger engine but not sure I want to pay extra every week at the pump. Hope to get many years out of it if we get one. Should this car be able to be run to 150,000 plus miles without major repairs (read eng, tranny, steering rack) if it is well maintained?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The H6 has proven very reliable. I'd give it an edge over the 2.5l H4.

    Subaru said it makes 208hp instead of 212hp with regular fuel, and 87 octane is fine. They "recommend" premium, but require only regular.

    -juice
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