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Comments
The Cadillac? The new ones look so horrible and dated! I prefer the ones they had a few years back.
Do you know what the fair residual value is for a CPO BMW 740i? Looking at a 1999 740, w/18k miles, priced at $43200.....so far so good..
Dealer is quoting 50% from BMW, which seems way low, with a payment of $780/month/36mos..... seems to me this is overpriced.... your thoughts? Given the new model on its way, have you seen any good 740 deals around the country?? Thanks..
I am looking at the same car (1998 740iL with 50 to 60K miles). What kind of money factor and residual % did you get? Also, did you get 15,000 miles/year? I figure I can get the car for 30 to 35,000. How much did you pay?
I've never owned a BMW, but recently I came across one that has 120K miles that looks interesting. According to the current (second) owner, the car had its engine replaced in a factory recall at 80,000. Something about gas additives in the New England area harming the 4.0 Litre V8. Sounds like the car has been impeccably maintained - oil changed every 2500 miles, new water pump, brakes, and belts. Car is loaded - ABS, 6 Cd changer, etc. I've been looking at brand new V6s (Acura 3.2) and if the 4.0 Liter is a good engine and the BMW has a long life, I could pick up up for a fraction of the cost of a new 3.2 TL.
Owner is asking $14,900, but seems flexible. Kelly Bluebook has it @ $11,500 max. ANY THOUGHTS ON THE CAR'S RELIABILITY, MAINTENANCE COSTS, OR ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD BE AWARE OF??
Thanks!
The gas additives harming the engine enough to warrant replacement seems fishy to me. Why would the additives harm the BMW engine and no other car's engine? Either the BMW engine was so bad it had to be replaced, or one of the owners (or both) did not properly maintain the car.
I think if you buy the BMW you are in for a LOT of extra maintainence costs, so factor that in. The Acura will probably cost less in the long run.
BMW will cost more to upkeep than acura, yes, but it's more like 30% more maybe, and you have to decide if it's worth it. I think it is. Good things cost more.
dave
Thanks for your input! I am looking to hold the next car I buy for the long term, so I am leaning toward purchasing the new Acura. Just cannot afford the time (and $) of dragging what admittedly is a super driving machine (1993 7 Series) back to the dealership for costly maintenance.
Thanks again!
No one wants to talk about it here, but many of us are aware of the "740 Lemon" syndrome. I was told that 740i's have at times been junked due to serious electrical problems, cost of repair being higher than the value of the car. This is also why 740's depreciate like a stone. I have given up and may instead pursue the M3, a more reliable performance car.
I'm surprised that the car you looked at was offered for sale with all those problems, but I suppose there's no accounting for poor sales strategies. But I'm a little curious why you would look at a used 7-series if you really subscribe to the "740 Lemon Syndrome". I believe that BMW is spawning no more lemons than other luxury makes with these cars (with the exception of Lexus and Infiniti), but when these cars do have problems they can generate huge repair costs, as you mentioned. I think the cost of repairs to these cars is what alarms potential owners, more than the actual frequency of repairs.
I have a 98 740i that I bought 16 months ago that had 13.6k miles on it, and it had been in service exactly 2 years. I now have 28k miles on the car and the factory warranty expires next July. Since I've had the car both headlights burned out (at different times) before the car reached 20k miles. One of the brake lights went out after a TSB was done to the car, and the other soon after - again, before the car reached 20k miles. No "electrical" problems since. The one serious failure I've had is the water pump failing at 23k miles.
While these problems hardly qualify the car as a lemon, I feel they warrant the purchase of a (comprehensive) warranty service plan as the car nears the end of the factory warranty. Risk tolerance for potential repair bills varies among us, but personally I don't think I'd want to roll the dice with one of these without a warranty.
But I purchased this car knowing that. As you mentioned, the resale dives quickly on these cars, so the initial cost of this car (factoring in a couple thousand more for the eventual extended warranty) still makes the car an attractive buy.
DB
I sort-of agree that a 7-series is not the car to get for worry free motoring.
dave
Dont get me wrong, I think the 740i is the most beautiful, best styled performance sedan, especially the 740i Sport with 18" Sport wheels & suspension package. If BMW could somehow make them highly reliable and trouble free I think this car would almost completely displace Mercedes & Lexus. BMW really should try to understand this. I have a 95 LS400 which is a very boring car to drive & very soft but at 80K miles it has been 100% troublefree, from headlight to tailight, not a single glitch or fault; trouble is I get no plesure from driving the car. Gimme a 740i Sport as plain & simple as can be. I am still considering trading in the LS400 for a 97 or 98 740i Sport and I am willing to put up with up to $3000 in annual maint/repair costs. If anyone has any rough actual #'s I would appreciate it as it would help me decide.
I am shopping for a nice used CPO 7 series. Have heard that the ride of the i is pretty harsh with the sport package as compared to the iL as the iL does not have the same suspension as the i.
Can someone explain? Thanks.
Great site with members who know everything about the E38.
Steve
'99 740iL
"The controversial new 7 Series
Do You Think This Car Is Ugly?
If so, you aren't alone. It could mean bumps ahead for BMW, just as it's stepping on the gas."
Here's the link:
http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?channel=artcol.jhtml&doc_id=205377
The business press has had some interesting stuff, in both the US and in Europe. I ran across some interesting observations from various quarters.
It seems that the saga of the '02 Seven Series has the makings of yet another slow motion business train wreck that industry analysts, roundel enthusiasts, and competitors are watching with curious facination. You just know it going to happen, you hope it won't, but you just can't take your eyes away from the vision of market reality colliding noisily with badly-conceived product. BMWs mgmt was loudly critizied for the extraordinary way in which the Rover acquisition was mismanaged from the start by Munich and produced billions of dollars of losses and write-offs for BMW. The new 7 series seems to causing many of the same negative comments regarding the company's management skills to resurface at this time.
The company's excellent effort at beginning to recover from the self-inflicted multi-billion dollar shareholder value meltdown caused by the Rover fiasco has the potential to be completely stymied by the possible damage that may be caused by the upcoming 7 series debacle. This is the big worry among minority shareholders who hung on to their shares throughout the Rover disaster in spite of horrific financial losses. Just as there seems to be a bit of light at the end of the tunnel, they are horrified to realize that the light is a new 7 series about to run over their shareholder value yet again.
But then again, BMW is hardly alone among the car companies in terms of recent management blunders and shareholder value destruction.
It's hard to predict whether the recent Rover and upcoming 7 series train wrecks at BMW will have a more detrimental effect upon the firm's financial condition than the former GM Chairman Smale / P&G 'brand manager' mess at GM over the last decade, Or the 'Shrimp' led disaster @ DCX with the failed Chrysler integration (50% + of shareholder value destroyed in two years !!), Or Colonel Klink's (aka 'Piech') madcap brand mismanagment soap opera ($85k VWs ?, Bugatti v. Lamborghini v. Bentley ? etc. etc.) that continues to this day at VW.
Of all of these business disasters, only the recent appointment of Lutz @ GM suggests a serious recognition of problem & solution. VW, DCX, and BMW continue gliding down their odd self-destructive and anti-shareholder value paths. In contrast, GM seems to be making some very early but promising progress at repairing their problems.
The crazy Quandt family antics sure don't help the situation and show no sighs of letting up (at least until the estate and capital gains tax law changes in Germany next year tempt various family members to consider putting value over ego and thus finally sell BMW out to a larger firm).
The same sort of management misjudgements that resulted in GM inflicting the Pontiac Azteck on the public are clearly alive and well in Munchen with the new 7 series stupidity. What senior manager put his signature on the approval sheet for the i'drive, much less the 7 series styling? I gather from the business press that they are running for cover these days, saying "I didn't ok it, that guy did!"
I've read comments from various writers who've driven the new 7 series, and their derisive comments regarding the Toyota Echo like styling and applications of metal trim pieces all over the interior (Bill Mitchell would be tickled; bring on the '58 Roadmaster!) are exceeded only by their condemnations of the 1950's style return of the shift lever from the console to the column and the use of the 'i-drive' system to convert HVAC and entertainment system control from being quick in intuitive into something that requires "30 minutes of training before you can start the damm thing" (to quote one reviewer).
Since I'm considering buying a sedan having the footprint and interior volumn of the 740i, it's time to seek out a close-out special for a 2001 model on one of the local bmw center lots. Either that, or broaden my search to include other brands. The 500S and STS come to mind, for starters. In any event, I'll be sure that what I buy doesn't resemble a '58 roadmaster on the inside, nor a Toyota Echo on the outside, and does not have mechanically-acutated anti-roll bars nor a rotating mouse instead of a shift lever.
Just to set the record straight on 1 small point-- all of the primary controls on the new 7-- HVAC, major radio controls, windows, sunroof, etc, are controlled via convential knobs and switches. the iDrive really controls the "techno-weeny" features of the car that you really don't have to adjust or play with if you don't want to. I think people get carried away criticizing the iDrive in this respect-- reporters like to blow things out of proportion and say that in order to lower the temperature you have to navigate a series of menus. This is not true. iDrive works just like BMWs existing nav systems-- except there are more things to set and the knob is on the center armrest now. no big deal really. The interior styling, however, is in truly poor taste. I really don't know what they were thinking. I can almost forgive the exterior- but the interior is just plain horrible.
It would also be interesting to note that people from a variety of demographics find the new design to be hideous. For example, I'm a 28 year old first time 3 series owner--and hate the new 7. My father is a 59 year old 740 owner and also hates it. I've talked to numerous other people who have seen pics of it and also hate it. I wrote BMW a letter saying that this will be my last BMW if this uglification campaign continues. But-- they'll probably get bought by GM before that happens.
M
Personally, I like its shape more than the current Mercedes E-class, the BMW 3 & 5-series. The current 7-series look so dated next to the new 7.
Don't just repeat everything from magazines critics, be your own judge.
Thanks for the clarifying comments on the i-dirve rotating mouse. Not having had the chance to see the new 7 in person, i'm relying on the comments of others. I recall, however, that one commentator mentioned that the HVAC and entertainment system can be controlled through either the i-drive rotating mouse or thru traditional buttons on the dash. In any event, it will be interesting to see how the market (as opposed to auto mag writers) react to the car.
Re: merc1
Yes, you're correct, the prose got a little 'overboard', but I plead a long day and a late hour. Just as the Quandts and the other shareholders who hung on through the Rover mess are hoping for better times, I suspect that the potential financial damage caused by market non-acceptance of the new 7 series will be less severe than what happened during the Rover debacle. A similar error with the 3 series replacement would be another matter.
You also made an exellent point about RR. It's tough to envision a car company that (in the view of some German magazines) has built its success around "..producing the 'same sausage, just in different lengths" moving so far upmarket.
Shifting upmarket to the RR product level will require more than just a longer cut of the same sausage. It will have to be perceived as an entirely different cut of meat. BMW's success with the new mini bodes well, however. It's a delightful, if cramped and somewhat overpriced, car that captures the fun flavor of the original but in a modern iteration. If BMW could successfully jump down market to an iconic fwd fun product, perhaps they can jump upmarket to an equally iconic rwd luxo barge.
I've not yet run across any comments in the press regarding this project, other than having seen photos (@ www.autoextremist.com) of disguised prototypes undergoing hot weather testing @ the Furnace Creek Ranch.
BMW's execution of this new RR product line has all sorts of interesting ramifications. BMW is still selling the silly liner-less aluminum engines to VW for the current RR; it'll be intersting to see if they decide to upgrade the block with some proper steel liners and make other similar upgrades from the 7 series (such as dumping the inexpensive mcpherson strut front suspension and employing some modern interior and ip lighting arrangements). Those improvements will cost a couple of marks, but at the probable price target, the new RR would look a bit silly if it employed those cost-saving shortcuts.
As for Rolls Royce, BMW is going to have to let go of their sporting philosphy this time. The RR01 car is rumored to be so tall that a 6 foot man can't see over the top of it! Giving new meaning to a "big" car. BMW and VW are going to bitterly split these brands up Jan 1st, 2003. That's the reason why VW brought back Bentley's old V8. They know BMW isn't going to supply engines for them and the BMW V12 was no good in the Arnage anyway. Rolls-Royce is going to have a hell of a time with one brand new model to sell. As I understand it the entire like of current Royces are gone Jan 2003. The last Corniche last for over 10 years, the current one just two years! It should become a collectors item. I'm sure the RR01 car will be up to snuff.
Mini is a hit. It's cheap and cute so it'll sell out all over the world, but in the long run I'm not sure how long that popularity will hold up. All cars of that vein, PT Crusier, Beetle, Thunderbird etc all loose steam after a while. BMW was smart to see it at existing BMW dealers instead of going the new franchise route.
I guess, into every life some rain must fall. I guess the next 18 months will tell all for BMW.
M
Please let us know if you know more about this.
Someone going on such a long pontification about busines practices ought to look up stock dividends.
I know you're a die-hard "sneaky" GM booster, but you should try to come up with some realistic arguments.
I do not car for the looks of the new 7 either, bit some of the engineering is mind-blowing. Wish they could drop the new valvetronic engine into my e36!
dave
M
dave
dave
M
I think this car has two problems that, combined, may well be its demise. First is an unfortunate exterior design that looks (but plainly wasn't) slapdash. This will keep a sizeable number of potential customers out of the showroom altogether. Second, is the hideously complex mess they have made of their ergonomics. Among those potential buyers who actually make it in to the showroom, a significant number of folks will become frustrated during their test drives with being unable to figure out how to redirect the vents or turn up the treble. A company locked in fierce competition with formidable foes like MB and Lexus simply can't afford to alienate any significant portion of the market. I don't think this will be the death knell for BMW by any stretch, but I do think it will be seen as a regretable gamble from which BMW will ultimately have to distance itself.
dave
meanwhile, the current 3 and 5 series and z8 continue to look stunning.
upcoming Audi A8, now there's an attractive car!
M
I think BMW is taking a HUGE risk with the new 7-Series that will be arriving in the USA early in 2002.
The reason is simple: the interior design is TOO dramatic a departure from previous BMW's. Between the totally new steering column controls and the iDrive control system, this will just bamboozle current BMW owners (let alone any car owner) to no end, to say the least.
I mean, look at the latest Mercedes-Benz models; the traditional gauge set of speedometer, tachometer, fuel gauge and water temperature gauge are still there, along with console shifter for the transmission, even on the new SL500 convertible that will arrive in the USA this coming summer.
I think the next-generation BMW 5-Series will not likely incorporate iDrive because 5-Series cars tend to be more "sporty" and that means no radical departure in interior ergonomics.