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Comments
There is still a fairly good selection of '01 "Executive Demos" with about 5K miles, excellent condition, never been registered "new" vehicle, asking for about 13-15K off MSRP. I rather pay a little more for a brand new car, just for the new car smell.
I think I figured out the difference in the cockpit equipment among '01 740iL's. Apparently, the '01 were manufactured as early as 5/00. The early release has smaller LCD and side by side cassette player, and a CPT 7000 phone (Startac). The more recent release has a wider LCD and concealed cassette player, and a CPT 8000 phone (Timesport).
I note that many of the "Executive Demo" that are available were manufactured in 2000. This is another reason I did not go for the early release cars. The one I just purchased was manufactured in 8/01.
I will say that I find the styling in person to be very attractive, yet very muscular looking. The rear end I am not crazy about, but I think it is growing on me, and I think it is putting people off at the moment, but then again, didn't the Taurus/Sable of the late 80's turn everyone's stomach with it's space shuttle-egg design? But after a couple years with that same design, didn't it outsell the accord and camry for a year or two? No, it is not a traditional design, and I think that is a big benefit. It's a car that one will look at and instantly recognize, rather than wondering what it is, or it looks just like that other car.
As far as driving the car, there is Nothing that compares with it! It handles like a 3'er with a sport pkg! Very traditional BMW handling but the ride with 18" or 19" wheels remains very smooth and compliant, no matter the speed or road surface.
For comparison(lol)they had a Lexus LS 430 and a MB S430 for back to back driving. In terms of acceleration 0-60, it felt somewhat faster than BMW's claimed 5.9secs. It was ahead of the S430 by a couple car lengths, and the Lexus, well, it just wasn't there. For turning and transitional maneuvers, you could typically go about 10-15 mph faster through a given section in the 7 than in either of the other two. The MB felt ok when driving, but when it was pushed, it did go right off the track, where at higher speeds in the 7 it stayed on track and going where you wanted it to. And the Lexus was so much slower, it inspires little confidence in its' abilities, and people were driving that one much slower. And then at the end of the day, the Lexus needed new tires!? I swear, there was no tread left on them, when the BMW's showed NO sign of premature wear due to the flogging it received all day long.
As far as the interior goes, I think it is very rich looking, with a high quality feel all over. I wasn't too impressed with the other two cars, to me they just felt a little cheaper with the materials used. This may be a subjective area, and I'm probably a little biased. But I would like to comment for the poster who said he doesn't want the aluminum bits all over the place. Take a look at all these new cars coming out and see if they too are using aluminum bits and pieces in the interior. You may not like it, but apparently the masses do because I'm seeing it in a LOT of new cars coming out.
I like to think of myself as somewhat of an audiophile, so I definitely took note of the stereo, the Logic 7. 13 speakers, 420 watts. I was ready to be disappointed because I've heard SUCH good things about the Mark Levinson in the Lexus and the Bose in the MB, and BMW is usually slammed for their 'not up to par' systems. Well, I think Lexus and MB are not up to par when compared to this new system, not even close. It sounded absolutely beautiful, I likened it to a very high end home system. And BMW has FINALLY figured out that they need a CD changer in the dash, lol.
So, while everyone's a little uncertain right now, after spending two days driving and learning about the car, I have complete confidence in it, hopefully it wasn't just brainwashing!lol I think it'll take a couple of months for the sales to get off the ground, after some competent owners take delivery and see just how much better a car it is than the one it is replacing, and how much easier it is to use the interface, or I-drive.
Happy Motoring
Rob
M
M
ljflx, I'm just trying to report to this thread what I experienced, not what a magazine is saying about the car. You say you have two Lexus' right now, and I believe you, but I know you have not had a chance to do a back to back comparison with the new 7, so you don't know how badly your Lexus will look when this car becomes available to the public. If you want to doubt my credibility, so be it. The reality is, this car blew me away, it felt SOoo nice to drive, I was nowhere near the handling limits of the car, and it could do a lot more than I was asking it do. Driving the Lexus does not compare at ALL. It is much more of a luxo-boat than anything else. The balance of handling and comfort are just not there, COMPARED to the 745. I never stated anything that said the Lexus was a bad car, but it sure looks that way after coming out of this 7 series.
I would suggest getting to your local dealer when they arrive and drive it for yourself, and you can then dtermine if my comments 'are so far removed from reality'.
Rob
I think this is the thing here, it looks confusing, it seems like it would be confusing, yet when one sits with it for 5 mins. it becomes quite obvious it IS easy to use, and IMHO, a better interface than anything else currently available.
Rob
ljflx,
I predict your baby will be soundly trounced when the comparisons are done. As I've said all along.
M
I have never read a review anywhere that puts the S430 faster 0-60 than the LS430.
I'm not doubting you, but it seems contrary to what has been written and reviewed for two years now.
M
ljflx,
We'll see.....
M
I've mentioned this before: My grandfather had a 1977 Mercedes 450SLC and loved the look of the car (and all Mercedes models). But the car was a nightmare to own. He always said if a more reliable car looked like a Benz he would buy it. Sure enough, he bought three LS 400s before passing away.
What about what Mercedes copies from Lexus (like the glowing gauges among other things). Copying good things from other car makers, including styling, is not a bad thing.
The consumer's wallets will have the final say, whether this ugly car will be either a flop or not.
M
I also think I'd be concerned about Valet parking the car until it has been out awile and they figure out the proceedure for reverse,etc.
For now, I'm happy with the 330i, in March I will have a 330ci;)
pathdoc, while it is true that there will initially be no steptronic mode due to gas guzzler concerns, you can downshift the car using the L/D(limiting drive)button on the steering wheel. When you push that button, it allows you to then downshift with the thumb buttons to whatever gear you want to, but the trans will not upshift past that gear, until you hit the L/D button again, when it resumes a normal shifting program. It's like a "half steptronic", so to speak.
hope this helps
Rob
J "CaddyLac"
I don't have info for the 760Li from BMW yet so I won't comment on that, but I would expect to see every option in the 745Li to be standard in the 760Li.
Rob
Li's turning circle is 41.3 ft, vs. 39.8 ft.
Li's weight is 4464 lbs, or 88 lbs. more than the 745i
Rob
Have you seen the new 7 yet? Looks like its out per Edmunds new car pricing. I still don't like it, particularly that rear but I've yet to see it in person.
Now for the bad news.....the car is ugly. As much as it pains me to have to say this about a BMW it's true. The car's rear end belongs on another car from another era. It's true what they say about darker colors, but the 7 I examined was a darker color! Wait, it gets worse. The wheels are NOT centered in the wheelwells. The car is very akward looking from the side because of this. Even the front end doesn't look "right". The headlamp openings are just too large with too much space between the lamps and the hood. So the typical BMW "shark" look is now gone too. At this point I would be among the board members that are saying that Chris Bangle has to go. There is only one more styling test of mine that this car hasn't been through yet, hopefully it will look better then if not its truly an "ugly" car.
I can only hope the 2004 5-Series doesn't look like a minature version of the this new 7-Series. I'm still in disbelief.
M
I had the same thing with my car. It would only shake at about 65mph amd it was smooth at 60mph and 70mph, turns out I had a nicely bent rim.
By the way did you get any indication if demand for the car is hot, lukewarm or cold?
M
After reading your post, I went out to look at our car, which has the 19" wheels, and I didn't really notice the wheels not being centered. Did you notice whether the car you looked at had the 18" or 19" wheels?
Rob
That may be the $25,000 referred to earlier.
Have you posted any sales data recently?
M
LS Ultra -- Right around $70,000
S430 comparably equipped -- $89,860:
72,495 -- base car w/dest charge
2,000 -- ventilated front seats
1,155 -- xenon lights w/washers
820 -- wood wheel and shift knob
1,825 -- power rear seats
1,880 -- rear AC controls
140 -- NAV CDs for entire country
1,015 -- Parktronic
820 -- upgraded leather
1,565 -- ventilated rear seats
2,875 -- Distronic speed control
2,960 -- active suspension
310 -- rear side window shades
That's a nearly $20,000 difference. By the way, the S500 starts at $80,845.
No new sales numbers, but I'll see what I can find.
What I went to look at was our dealership demo car. We have to have it available for test drives and can not sell it for a month or so. Did the dealer you went to have one for test drives, or just the one on the showroom floor?
You gotta drive one of these, really impressive.
I can appreciate your test, I like to admire cars from that angle as well, and it's funny because I like to see the car rolling as well, maybe something about seeing it in action? Who knows
Rob
lenscap.
The S430 doesn't need ABC to compete with the LS430. Airmatic will suffice.
M
M
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
However, the trunk still looks horrible. As the new "Spin Around" article on Edmunds says, it was an afterthought by BMW to fix the aerodynamic problems posed by the taller canopy, and it looks like it. Just too much going on for my taste.
Finally, those (like Edmunds) who defend the iDrive are missing the point, in my view. They say that anyone who can operate Word can operate iDrive; maybe so, but I operate Word (complete with its infuriating crashes, non-intuitive commands and spurious bugs) every day AT MY DESK, not going 75 down the highway. As most engineers will tell you that when you ask a device to do two functions rather than one, it likely won't accomplish either as well as a device dedicated to one alone. Have you looked at the palmtop/cell phone combos? This device combines all of the electronic and electro-mechanical functions in to a single device that offers no tactile feedback, the way buttons and knobs on the dash can. The fact that this combination can be made to work at all may be a testament to the talents of BMW's techies, but it does not mean that functionality has been gained; indeed, functionality has been degraded significantly. I suppose for those that buy a car for the geewiz factor this will be attractive, but the goal, IMHO, should be to make the most FUNCTIONAL devices, not the most "impressive."
In sum, I react to the car the way I would to an intriguing concept car; some great ideas and some real flash, but clearly not ready for the market. We will see if I am right or completely off base.
M