BMW 7-Series 2006 and earlier

c43amg7 · February 2002

"I'm not sure if there is a S-430 amg or whether it even would sell because most people would be in an s-500 at that point."

-------------------

The only S-class AMG car is the $100,165 S55 AMG: 355HP and 391 FT/LB of torque from a 5.5L V-8 (actually a 5,439cc stroked version of the 5.0L engine in the S500); 0 - 60 MPH in 5.7 seconds.

There has not been an AMG car built off the 4.3L V-8 since the '98 - '99 C43 AMG (about 17 model year '00 models were also made for the US before production ended -- a total of 1,500 C43s sent to North America).

For info on the S55 AMG see: http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=S55

jstyle · February 2002

I thought I'd too update my opinion on the 745i. I saw it in Vancouver BC during a preview but didn't get to play with or drive the car. I did today at a local dealer (demo model)...First off the ride is incredible. Much better than an S-class. The interior is still a bit strange to me compared to previous BMW's but the materials and fit and finish are way beyond the S, although I think Mercedes will address that in this falls complete interior redesign. I also liked the seats. They are real comfortable. The idrive is a different story. Much easier to use than I thought but way to many options and I think most people will only use it for the radio and HVAC anyways, voice control for everything though was fun to watch the sales guy show me....One other thing I must mention again is the audio system. Incredible, puts Bose to shame. I would just love to sit in the thing and listen to music. The car does look way better in a dark color too as someone else mentioned. The dealer had white and a metalic black demos and it looks much better in the dark. Oh, one more thing, the high gloss wood looks much better than the matte to me. I guess it all comes down to personal preference. One thing as these cars become rolling computer networks (read very expensive repairs) I would never keep a 745i or S-class or even the new E-class past the warranty period. You would only be asking for thousand$$$ in repair costs.

ljflx · February 2002

I know I saw several S-500amg's and recently an S-600amg on the road in the current body style. I was particularly surprised that the S-600 was available as an amg model.

bobbyknight · February 2002

You can also get the S430 with the same sport package. Its just the body kit and the AMG wheels. The only TRUE AMG S-class is the S55.

BTW, the new 745i is gorgeous!

merc1 · February 2002

I have got to find a way to get my hands on a 7 for a real test drive. The car's only real problem seems to be the styling. I'm starting to think idrive may not be as complicated as some make it out to be.

M

w210 · February 2002

Tried it, it really isn't such a big deal, much more user friendly than touch screen at least.

merc1 · February 2002

Just out of curiousity, how many 7's have been sold at your dealership?

M

millerro3 · February 2002

we have sold quite a few, the problem comes when it's time for people to bite the bullet and come to take delivery, we've only had one so far.

Bear in mind though, that we are no where near being the biggest dealership in the area, others could have delivered more.

laithy_74 · February 2002

This is interesting. The 7-series already outsold Mercedes and Lexus for January.

BMW 7-Series: 1,513
Lexus LS430: 1,490
Mercedes S-Class: 1,256

sean2g · February 2002

Yestersay, Saturday, we were cruising in downtown Atlanta and a silver car flew by us. Imediately I knew what is was. I was so impressed by that glance at it compared to the pictures that I headed straight to the dealers. I didn't drive it, but the dealer had 3 I think. There was a dark black with the 19's and tinted windows, BEAUTIFUL. The 19 inch design is also beautiful, those would be the only option for wheels on that beauty. That is all I could say. I doesnt look as humongus as it does in the pictures. It was just beautiful. We were thinking of purchasing the facelift S500 in a year or two, but I think that's not happening. Go check out the car all I can say is HOT!

What do yall think BMW's tuning companies will do to this car??? Keep your eyes open cause it is going to be something.

jstyle- the 7 you were in, which sound system did it have, the upgraded or the standard system? thanks

merc1 · February 2002

Only one really has left the dealership so far huh? That doesn't sound too good. I'm sure things will pick up as the car gets more exposure. It does indeed look better in darker colors though.

laithy_74,

Where are you getting these numbers from?

M

jstyle · February 2002

The upgraded system. I beleive it is built by Harmon Kardon, which is BTW a division of Mark Levinson Audio which builds the Lexus system...Go and get a sales guy to let you plug in your favorite CD. Dang it sound great!

Merc1- The local dealer here too said that they took a number of orders but only one delivery and it seems that some of their more conservative, gadget phobic customers were having second thoughts...Just a note

I too wonder laithy_74 where those numbers come from?

lenscap · February 2002

The numbers can be accessed at prnewswire.com. Part of the 7-Series' boost was all the pre-orders being fulfilled I would imagine. Every car coming in is already sold.

Seems like a good start for the car.

laithy_74 · February 2002

I got the numbers from America on Line. Keyword: business, then industry, then auto, then auto news.

taurus2 · February 2002

Saw the new 7! Wow it really turned my head.

afty · February 2002

Before you ask, it's not mine! It's parked in front of my apartment building. I went out and took a closer look. It really does look a lot better in person. I particularly like the front end styling, the power dome on the hood, and the profile view. The rear still looks somewhat awkward (kinda like a Chrysler Cirrus), but it's not that noticable. The wheels on this car are huge! They dwarf the 17ers on my car.

This car had normal plates and everything, so I don't think it's a dealer car. I guess people around here are buying them.

autoc · February 2002

I would appreciate very much if anyone who has driven the 745 care to post how well the new car handles. Too cushy, handling too soft, steering weighting too light, just right, perfect?

Thanks!

sner66 · February 2002

I test drove it last week and the handling is truly amazing for a car of this size/weight. Much better than the old 750 and as good or better than the 5-series. Steering could be a little more responsive but still "best in class" for this type of car imo. Plenty of torque/power where you need it; sensors will *automatically* slow car if you go into a curve too fast(which is hard to do since the roll stabilization works so well). Mild understeer. Overall still blows away the Lexus 430 and Mercedes S in overall handling. I can live with the new body styling but wish the cockpit stayed closer to traditional BMW style instead of moving toward Mercedes/Lincoln territory.

autoc · February 2002

Sounds great. Now I have to try to find a dealer with the 745 and test drive it (and start saving my pennies!)

sysadb · February 2002

I was at my dealer today and saw several that were in stock. Like an earlier poster said, the size of the optional 19" wheels draws attention, especially up close.
The car seemed much more impressive up close than in mag photos. I even liked the rear end styling, which, to my eyes, makes the rear styling of my 98 look drab. In comparison, the LS400 and the S-Class look generic as well. But to each his own - on balance I'm glad BMW gave the car a more "unique" look. The rest of the car's shape was muscular and pleasing to me, just like I would want a BMW to be.

I thought the interior was a little more controversial. I liked the i-drive a lot, but I can see where they might lose some sales because technophobes will reject it. The interior room seemed larger, but that may be illusory, and quality and feel seemed top-notch. I would prefer the older gauges, though, and more of them.

One of the best features may turn out to be the price. I noticed a base car with a heated seat pkg. for about $69k. With all the improvements I think it's to the buyer's benefit that BMW kept the base price under $70k.

I think a test drive is in order...

DB

pat · February 2002

A major newspaper is looking to interview folks who learned how to drive stick in their adulthood, and either fell in love or hated it. Also welcome is any input on why people love to drive stick, and any unusual anecdotes about how you learned etc.

Hope to hear from you before Feb 22 via the Talk to the Press discussion or at jfallon@edmunds.com with your thoughts and contact information.

Thanks as always,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director, Edmunds.com

buyer4568 · February 2002

I ordered a new 745i in September, and the dealer tells me that it is supposed to be here in March. I drove a dealer car last weekend. While the car drives phenomenally well, especially around corners, I'm underwhelmed by the interior, especially the iDrive system and that controller device. I think of myself as fairly sophisticated on gadgets, but just having the car for 30 minutes, I found it difficult to even change the radio station. I don't know what to say about the rear end. Ugly is an understatement. Can I get used to all of this? It's hard to tell in 30 minutes. My dilemma will come in a month.

bobobo2 · February 2002

I picked up my 745 last week, and overall love it. I had a cl500, and it simply felt to large, so I traded it back 2 days later so I got my money back.

The car drives like a much smaller car-generally I hate large cars always drive Porsches, had 2 sc430's etc. This car is terrific however, they did go overboard with the technology. I am now very comfortable with it, but it took me several days for that to happen. The many voice controlled functions, simply do not respond well. The dealer tells me there is already a software update to fix the problem. I did get a flat already, and I was told there are less than 30 tires for that car in the entire country-I have the 19 inch ones. The found one and it took 5 days to arrive, and cost me over $400.oo

Others who have had the car for a few weeks, let me know your experiences with it.

toyotas1 · February 2002

An M7 will be out by the end of 2003 with over 530hp (536 was the number tossed around online!). The new Valvetronic really gives the engineers a lot of latitude when it comes to tuning the powerband! A six speed stick is being developed for the NEXT M5 (500hp V-10) and future 6-7 series. Love the 7 with 19's! Hate the "Frankenstein" headlights and iDrive! That WILL CAUSE ACCIDENTS. But at least hand held cell phones seem to be "too 20th century"!

toyotas1 · February 2002

An M7 will be out by the end of 2003 with over 530hp (536 was the number tossed around online!). The new Valvetronic really gives the engineers a lot of latitude when it comes to tuning the powerband! A six speed stick is being developed for the NEXT M5 (500hp V-10) and future 6-7 series. Love the 7 with 19's! Hate the "Frankenstein" headlights and iDrive! That WILL CAUSE ACCIDENTS. But at least hand held cell phones seem to be "too 20th century" for these new cars! Thank god!

merc1 · February 2002

Where is this info on the M7?

M

dhanley · February 2002

Interesting news on the m7! Will it be the v12 engine in there? Info, info.

dave

jstyle · February 2002

Here is a link to a site showing a little info on the M7. Also pich up Auto Express mag it has actual pics taken of the next Gen 5-series and a mention of the M7. Cars rear end looks more integrated with the body modifications on the M7 I think

http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm

shoes · February 2002

I am interested to hear from owners of the new 7 like Bobobo2 above (wow, I thought I was the only one crazy enough to buy a CL500 and get rid of it inside of a month. I also found it too big and conservative).

My test drive with the 7 series was impressive in many ways and a turn off in others. The car is very capable- fast, handles well, comfortable. At the same time I felt disconnected from the road unlike other BMW's. Also I-drive addresses a problem I did not know I had- that my car has too little computerization. I don't know about you guys but I sit in front of a computer all day. When I get into my car, I want to be in touch with something other than another computer. Plus, I am tired of all this computerization without any true benefit- what is the point of I-drive? Does it control anything or do anything better? For me the answer is no.

Maybe after owning and driving the car for a few months, your other cars seem awkward and antiquated by comparison. Somehow, I doubt you will see stuff like this in Porsches (although they just recently such innovations like glove boxes and cupholders, so they may be stuck in the 1950's). Let's hear from the owners.

xmf314 · February 2002

I have seen several new 7-Series sedans cruising around here in Los Angeles. Although I think the front and side views are appealing, what were the designers thinking when they tacked on that ugly rear end?

It's as if when they got to that part of the design they lit up the same substance that the Pontiac Aztek stylists were puffing.

The BMW boys should consider an early rear end revision.

bobobo2 · February 2002

It has as I said taken over a week to figue out the easiest way to work al lof the electronics in this car. I really like the car now that I have learned to use everything. It is the first car I ever had that no one could drive without me explaining how to first. Included with the owners manual is a booklet of tearofinstrtnsht sto give a valet so he/she can figure out how to start and drive it-I think from that aspect they have gone too techno. crazy. I have a 996 Targa arriving in March as well as an sl500 April. I need to decide before than if I am goingto keep this car-My leaning right now, or go with a spotier, easier to use, but less comfortable automobile.

Other owners please comment. Without a week f drivg tait is impossible to fairly judge it-as have many of the car mags.

bobobo2 · February 2002

I really can write, though it does not appear so.

shoes · February 2002

Hey Bobobo2, you must have typed your post using the I-Drive in your 7 Series.

You sound like you have a similar automobile affliction to me. I bought an '02 Porsche 911 Coupe last month and am picking up my '03 Mercedes SL500 in April. However, where we differ is that I am also purchasing the existing body style BMW 540, specifically because I do not like what BMW has doen with the 7 series, so your honest appraisal of this new car, particularly the interior and its electronics and computerization, would be very appreciated by your brothers in automobile adoration.

What part of the US do you live in?

bobobo2 · February 2002

I have bought far more than my share of cars in the past 36 months-82 to be exact. The list includes mostly Porsche, Mercedes, and BMW. Also have had 2 different SC430 Lexus cars. Two Range Rovers, and a few Audis thrown in.

One of the reasons I bought the new 745, was in hopes of keeping for a while, since I figured it would take me a ling time to simply get used to all of the features. The voice recognition system is marginal at best. You also need to memorize the exact wording in order to have it perform properly for you. Even then, similiar sounding names etc., are easily confused.

So to contine my comments. The car rides superbly. It handles and accelerates like a much smaller car. I find the "I-drive" easy to use now, though as I said it did take a while. The GM of the dealership has had a number of small problems with his car, and tell some there are several software upgrades in the works that will help the voice recognition etc. He also says that all future redesigns of the BMW line will incorporate the "I-drive" system.

The more I drive it, the more I like it. Unfortunetly the intended audience for this car will probably be lost to other brands. My Mother is 80, and says there is no way she would consider a car this "complicated". I suspect that will be the reaction to many would be BMW owners, who may now move over the the S Class MB cars.

At any rate I do have a 911 Traga due in in the next 30 days, as well as an SL500 sometimes in late March or early April. I have not cancelled either, and won't until I am sure what I will be doing with the BMW. The dealership has wagers on me whether I will keep it for more, or less than my usual 6-8 weeks.

Lets hear other opinions from owners.

shoes · February 2002

I cannot wait to tell my wife that there is someone with a bigger auto buying habit than me. Wow, 82 cars in 36 months. The car industry should give you some kind of award. If you live in the SF Bay area, I want to start a car dealership with you.

Of all these cars, which have been your 2-3 favorites?

zeliforp · February 2002

Bobobo2: Please excuse my curiousity (since it's off-topic on this board), but what do you do for a living? You apparently have a very large amount of disposable income (and parking space!)... It's probably too late for me to get into whatever industry you are in, but it's good to dream ;-)

booboobo2 · February 2002

I'm a sanitation engineer.

zeliforp · February 2002

Touche!

bobobo2 · February 2002

I own 4 cars, not 80 at one time. My wife drives an Audi all road. I have a VW Passat 4motion as my bad weather car, and also own a 1998 Suburu wagon(my 18 year old son drives it mostly). I have had Porsches, and MB in the past. The large amount of money is not really the issue. The addiction-yes it really is an addiction for me, much to the joy of several car dealers. I do not recommend doign what I do for anyone. I have been fortunate to be retired at 48, though I do teach a course at a local college.

The amount of money I have wasted on cars is monumental, even though in some cases I have made money after my purchases (MB CLK cabs., or my SC430's early on). There is also luxury tax on every car over $38,000. So yes, I love cars. like driving different ones, but I am not bragging about my addiction, just stating a fact.

On that note, the 745 is terrific in many ways still, but... I went to have it parked at a hotel and the valet refused to do so, told me he didn't want to mess with it, and I shoudl park it myself, just to be safe.

Will I keep it, or get the Porsche or MB when they come in? I don't know yet.

shoes · February 2002

Bobobo2, you are not alone in your sickness, althought the rest of us may not be in your league financially. I have owned 75 cars, but over 30 years not 3 like you. I have told my wife that at least I don't gamble, drink or womanize and I think cars are cheaper than those other vices.

v12power · February 2002

I think I share your affliction guys. I don't go through them quite as fast but we do seem to change a couple each year. I just bought a '01 S600 in California and drove it home to Minnesota. We looked at the 745i. I have a 750il as well, so the 745 was the next logical step. My wife and I agreed that the i-drive is overkill, the column shifter is an abomonation, the exterior styling is awful, the interior is art deco, not our style. I didn't even drive the car, I would never own one. I think BMW seriously dropped the ball on this one. I am keeping the 750, it is a great car, and great looking too. It will just get used less now with the new MB 600 around. It is more conservative than the BMW but with Brabus wheels and the active suspension the car drives very nicely, 0-60 in 5.4 seconds doesn't hurt either.

The new SL looks great to me. I just read the review of the SL55 though, that may be the one. Tremendous power speed and luxury all in one car, and a drop top to boot.

balderdash · February 2002

I've heard of disposable income, but we're talkin' wasted income, here! What is with you? Have at you with this guilt trip: Come out from under your cloud of hedonism long enough to take a look around. The world is burning! Try to hold this picture in your mind for a minute: there are millions of babies starving in this world. Push aside those hallucinations of BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches, etc, and try to picture the starving children. What? You say you gave a million dollars to charity last year? Never mind.

sianyde · February 2002

Is there any way to select gears in a 740il? I know with the sports pack you can.

blumrln1 · February 2002

Does anyone know how to reset the dash board lights for a 1997 740i oil change

laithy_74 · February 2002

There is a picture of the 745Li in BMW web site. I thought it was extremely attractive, better looking than the 745i. any opinions?

richardga73 · February 2002

To v12 power. How do you compare the 750il and the S600? I am seriously considering purchasing one or the other. Please compare as many features as you can. Speed. Cornering. Road noise. Wind noise. Smell. Complexity(not a good thing!). Road feel. Thanksk!

merc1 · February 2002

Are you talking about the outgoing 750iL, if so they'll be hard to find at this point.

M

v12power · February 2002

First lets preface this with some facts. The 750 is a '98 with 40k miles on it. I have owned it for 18 months and put 20k miles on it. The S600 is a new 2001, most of my driving in it so far was the 2400 mile trip home. I haven't had time to really drive them back to back for comparison. I do have some insights though.

Driving impressions; Both cars have sport and normal suspension modes. The BMW is tied to shocks the MB to active hyd cylinders. The BMW rides softer in normal, after the MB I find it a little too soft and floaty. In sport you hear the bumps in the road and the car is far more responsive. Typical BMW, it is the biggest sports car I know of, a joy to run hard.

The MBs ride is firmer to begin with. Some of this is because of the 20" wheels fitted. It never feels as floaty as the BMW in normal mode. Sport only slightly firms the ride, not as much as the BMW. Cornering in sport in the MB is amazing. The car literally does not roll in corners, yet the ride is completely acceptable. My view on this is that the Active Body Control system on the Benz uses hydraulics to effectively alter spring rates. Firming the shocks BMW style improves transitions but in steady cornering (long cloverleaf ramp) the BMW rolls much more. I doubt the new anti roll bar system on the 745 even compares with ABC. The springs are still geared towards comfort and will allow the body to roll. So I think MB is one up on BMW, even the new model.

The MB is the faster car, at least half a second to 60. The BMW sounds faster, both sound great, no real preferance on engines. They even get identical fuel economy, around 18 mpg.

The BMW is very quiet inside, slightly more so than the MB, which is silent itself. I attribute this to the dual pane glass with an air gap inside. The MB uses two panes but they are touching, no air gap, and by comparison are about half as thick. My 750 is even much quieter than a new LS430 Lexus.

The MB was brand new, it smells better!

On the luxo features front; The MB is the more modern design, it has more features. This is not to say that a '01 750 wouldn't have a few more goodies than my '98. The MB has heated and cooled seats. You can use the cooling fans and heat to really speed up the bun warming. The cooled seats are a very nice feature. We did four long days of driving in a row in the MB. I was always very comfortable. The MB seats have more adjustments. The side bolsters can be adjusted and there are more and better infaltable lumbar chambers. The icing on the cake is that the lumbar chambers can be set to "pulse". This saved me from ANY back pain on the long trip. I like the NAV system on the MB better. The command system is easier to use than BMWs. The message center below the speedo is much better than BMWs and gives more info. Both are complex, the MB is easier to learn and use IMO, and it has more functions. Both have terrible cupholders, though the MB is slightly better. The general look and feel of the materials is better in the MB, regardless of age.

The seating positions are very different. In the BMW you sit lower, the view out is not quite as good either. It does give a sporty BMW feel. Typical of MB, you feel like you are sitting up much higher, and on the seat rather than in the seat. In the BMW you feel more like you can sneak down the road. In the MB you are in command of the road, the experience is almost regal (not the Buick).

I also looked at a new 745. I decided that I can not live with the interior or exterior styling. The trunk lines are bad, the front end treatment is bad. I do not like the positioning of the big i-drive knob. I don't like the placement of the screen. I don't like the column shifter at all. I prefer glossy wood and do not care for brushed metal in my car. The 745 was just not the car for me. Besides, and I never thought I would admit this, the MB absolutely REEKS of class next to the new BMW.

The 750 is a great car, I wouldn't be keeping it if it wasn't. It still is the sportier of the two, even if the MB outperforms it slightly. There is also the $30k price difference. If I had to choose ONE, it would be the MB, even considering the premium.

Did I cover it all? Sure feels like it!

I have a few pics up @ http://homepage.mac.com/bwinterholm/PhotoAlbum7.html

The BMW is wearing its winter shoes still. I have the 18" M-sport wheels for summer which really dresses the car up.

nyccarguy · February 2002

Whoever you are, you're a lucky man! Those are 2 absolutely beautiful cars you've got there!

richardga73 · February 2002

See, the analysis given by v12power should be a showcase for the attempted level of "conversation" done by the participants of all of these car topics. I'm blown away by the level of detail that (I'm assuming "he") went into. I love it! I'm in a profession where I deal with detail and high quality aspirations all day and it is neat that a fellow car fan has the desire to put his love and obviously money where his mouth and heart is! Props and kudoes! You should seriously do car reviews for someone who appreciates telling it like it is and who digs a lot deeper than most. Problem is, they'd have you into Daewoo's as well as MB's. So your position as an independent and occasional commentary is probably best.

BMW 7-Series 2006 and earlier

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