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BMW 7-Series 2006 and earlier

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Comments

  • sysadbsysadb Member Posts: 83
    There may be isolated electrical problems on some of these cars, but I think the problems have been more of a software nature than wiring installation. In talking to my dealer, the service mgr. said they've sold about 120 of the current 7-series so far, and are servicing about 10 others not bought at that store, and so far have had serious problems with about 7 or 8 cars. Almost every one of the problem cars suffered due to bad software. Keep in mind that this vehicle is "controlled" by about 17 different central processors, so there's plenty of opportunity to fail.

    Of course, BMW stuck it's neck out with this approach to engineering, and is suffering growing pains, but I think they will successfully stay the course. I'm actually surprised that the car has sold as well as it has, but the car has some excellent appeal aside from the glitches that some have experienced.

    DB
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    Tasillo, f1Buick, et. al. help me out. Wouldn't a BMW certified 2002 7 Series at 40K next November be a good deal? You just know that these two year old 71K sleds will be at 40K by Thanksgiving. Maybe at 40K they will be even a better deal than when the 6K shower curtain story came out and TYCO was at 15?

    Presumably the bugs would be worked out, BMW would stand near me (as opposed to behind it) for three (?) more years, and I'd save 30K. Then I dump it on a pizzeria owner who never heard of the IRS and run.

    What did I miss? I know that there isn't a free lunch.
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    For what it is worth, the E32, especially the 750, was full of bugs when it debuted in early 1987. Complex even by modern standards (the wiring diagram for my 93 750 is 3 times the size of the one for my 2000 Buick Park Avenue), the car was gradually updated until by 1991 it was a reasonably solid car.

    The old rule of thumb has been that you never buy a new design in the first 3 years of production, because it takes that long to iron out the bugs and make any necessary tooling changes. This rule probably holds true even today. The first three years of the E32 (1988-90) have numerous electrical and software problem that the last 3 years don't have. The software was fixed, numerous troublesome circuit boards were redesigned, etc.

    Applied to the E65, this means you should avoid 2002-2005. If you don't want to buy new and suffer the depreciation, that means you can start shopping for that used 745 in 2009, when the first ones start coming off 36-month leases. Heck, by then they might even be good deal since the early years will have poisoned the resale value.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    It seems a Domestic make can iron out most of the nightmares in 1 year. Why does it take BMW so long? Complexities???
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ...... Complexities??? ... Well, thats one word for it .l.o.l. maybe corporate Ego would be better ..

               Most of BMW's nightmares are kept a big secret, they want that "aura" of the ~ invincible vehicle .. with the failure of the new "7" (and who knows about the new "5") they still feel that the market will just wake up, smell the roses and buy their vehicle ... the problem is, the dealers have been crying for some help for over 18 months and they aren't ordering them .. that's a lot of floor plan cost to have sitting around when folks aren't cracking the doors ..

                         Terry.
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    I have to disagree that the domestics can iron out the bugs in a year. The "3 year rule" is based on some fairly fundamental issues, like the life of tooling on the production floor. Since the mfg has to retool after 3 years, he can alter components and design at relatively low cost after 3 years. So, for example, if a circuit board has to relocated farther away from the heater core, that won't happen in the first 3 years because the machinery on the production line is set up to install a circuit board in a very particular place, the tool that punches mounting holes is set up to put holes in that place, etc. This will not change until a time comes up when the tools are scheduled to be worked on.

    Having said that, it is amply clear to me that BMW does indeed favor more complex designs. My good old dad, an engineer who traveled all over the world on projects, once told me something that, at the time, I dismissed as amero-centric (is this a word?), but I now have to agree with.

    He said that if you give a German engineer a design that is 5% better on some level, but 100% more complex, he will chose the complex design. An American engineer is the opposite--he will gladly forego a bit of functionality in favor of simplicity. A parochial generalization from a WWII vet? Probably. But there is a bit of truth to it.

    My Park Avenue is the "Ultra" model, with every gadget and gizmo in GM's arsenal. But the wiring diagram for my 750 is 3 times the size. This is not an exaggeration. Some of the complexities are a bit bizzare--why does BMW use FIVE relays to turn on the bloody headlights? And if they go this overboard on something as simple as headlights, I can only shudder at what they must have done with i-Drive, or with that two-stage steering in the new 5.

    One of the reasons that your partner's car has seen so many modules replaced is related to the BMW's complexity. Unless BMW starts making a MENSA membership a prerequisite to working in the dealer service departments, there is no way the average service tech can understand the car or diagnose what is going on. It already was that way with my old 750--the techs did not understand the car and blindly followed the BMW diagnostic software. My 750 is simple compared to the 745.

    That software only goes so far: it peels back a couple layers of the onion, gets a general idea of where the problem likely lies, and then says "replace everything in this area." The result is underdiagnosis and over-repairing.
  • tmjddstmjdds Member Posts: 22
    I am reading with interest because I am getting ready to get out of a 2001 LS430 and step into a 2004 745Li. I don't think that anybody advised Lexus that they were suppose to take 3 years to get things right. My 2001 was an early model, new platform and not a single problem. It has lots of gadgetry and it all works flawlessly. My only reason to change is that the 2004 LS430 isn't much different. I've read about the buy-backs and all the other issues with the 7 series and I hope that the problems are now limited to being minor. Changing vehicles on Feb. 9th...will let you know how it goes.
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    does not say it takes three years to get a design right. The design could be perfect to start with. However, IF there are design flaws which can only be corrected by substituting new parts and rearranging the production process, generally it takes 3 years for that to happen.

    Software flaws should be correctible at any time. Many of the early flaws in the E65 strike me as software flaws, correctable with updated Eproms. This is good as far as it goes, but it can also create the illusion that everything is "fixed" when in fact the only thing fixed was what was easily fixable.

    The E65 is a major departure in system architecture from the E38, so it is more likely to have flaws requiring correction at the production process level. The LS430 was a conservative design and thus was less likely to exhibit such flaws. I imagine the same is true for the new Jag XJ. The E65, on the other hand, is full of stuff that NOBODY has ever tried before, like an otto-cycle engine without a throttle. I would not have much confidence that anyone would get a clean-sheet redesign, full of such experimental stuff, right on the first try. Nor would I expect the flaws to be corrected in the first couple years.

    As I said before, the E32 was a similiar situation. Released in 1987 with a new V12 motor, drive-by-wire throttles, computer-controlled tranny, electronic stability control, all sorts of stuff which was radical, Formula-one level tech for its day. The first year was full of flaws, and the next two had gradually fewer. Many fundamental issues, however, were not resolved until after the third production year because circuit boards needed redesigns, etc.

    The E38 successor to the E32 didn't have the same teething problems because it was an evolution, not a revolution. The E65 is a revolution.

    Well, guess that is what warranties are for. Hope I'm wrong. I'm sure the E65 is a stunning car to drive.
  • landspeedlandspeed Member Posts: 6
    My friend is almost up with his 2002 745i lease in 2001. He asked me if I was interested in buying the car after the lease. He told me it would be around 40k to 45k. Is this right?????
  • mike331mike331 Member Posts: 6
    BMW doesn't recommend tire rotation on my 03 745LI but the dealership says it does (for $39.95).
    all 4 tires are factory bridgestone 245/50 r18.
    why wouldn't this be part of regular maintenance?

    also, not ONE problem with my car. every time you get in it's exhilarating. biggest problem was when the dealer didnt know how to buff a black car properly...it was a joke how they responded on a $70k car. 14,000 miles & not one issue.
    i-drive is ez...like using a mouse pad on a menu driven system. i dont know what all the hubub was about.
  • 92735i92735i Member Posts: 25
    Ok...I'm bitting the bullet...ordered my new 2004, black on black 745i. Gonna do the BMW Performance Center delivery in S. Carolina.

    I am leasing so if this baby bugs out...no problem, they get the car back.

    Giving my trusty 1992 735i , beautiful white/tan, 174k miles, running like brand new, to my son.

    It was between a nice 2001 740i w sport package for $35k with 35,000 miles or a new 745i.

    The payment over 36 months is about equal...no brainer.

    I was totally impressed by the 740i...I got to test drive it alone...no salesman...the car is now deemed 'broken in', heheheheh!.

    Great car....have not driven the 745...first time I buy a car without a test drive. All I hear is how much better it is than the 740....hard to believe, can't wait.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    A major challenge faced by the luxury makes such as BMW, MB, Audi, Jag, etc. is and will be achieving quality goals in year 1 of production. Remarkable complexity is the name of the game today... and getting unit 1 off the production line with the quality expected at unit 10,000 can only be achieved with a passion for perfection.

    At this time, Lexus(Toyota) is the only luxury marque with the relentless pursuit of excellence as a corporate "mantra". "Getting it right" the 1st time is part of their corporate being.

    Their challenge has been a lack of design and performance passion, not a manufacturing passion. This all stems from their lean manufacturing orientation that has driven them for decades... and still drives them.

    My personal experience with lean manufacturing tells me that it can make a dramatic impact... witness the dramatically improved J.D. Power scores for Jaguar! They have made substantive improvements in their manufacturing and product launch processes by applying elements of lean mfg. Still not at the level of Lexus, but certainly a world apart from where they were 5-10 years ago.

    The Germans have focused on design and engineering excellence, which often translates into complexity. If they figure out how to marry the best of lean mfg with their ability to engineer the finest performance vehicles on the planet, look out!

    Without a major dissertation on lean... just consider that each generation of Toyota passes approx 70 percent of its content to the next generation. Camry's today have feature content from prior Lexus models. Corolla's today have panel fits and feature content from prior upline models.

    From f1buick's comments above, you may never see a Lexus LS with 5 relays used in the operation of headlights! They would anticipate the maintenance problems. In fact, one might suppose the greatest asset of Lexus/Toyota to be manufacturing excellence... insiders might differ and say that "problem-solving" by the real "value-adder" employee is their greatest asset!

    I say all this as an extremely passionate 2003 BMW 530 SP owner. BMW got this platform right. The challenge is getting the 1st unit of the 1st model year for a new platform right from the start. If the new 7 was built to Lexus standards, we'd all possibly forgive Bangle (well, maybe!) a bit just to enjoy the faultless joy of driving a fabulous car designed to perform unlike any other in its category.

    I often use a quote from Peter Drucker when assessing today's automotive manufacturing challenge... "An innovation, to be effective, has to be simple and has to be focused. It should do only one thing, otherwise, it confuses. All effective innovations are breathtakingly simple. Indeed, the greatest praise an innovation can receive is for people to say: This is obvious. Why didn't I think of it?"

    The concept of iDrive is easy to understand, but the execution has been poor. "It confuses". Let's hope BMW will not take 3+ years to figure this out!
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ...... He's probably not too far off depending on the miles, options and the condition .. if he's leasing it, then all he has to do is look at the residual and that will give him a pretty good idea what that "buy" figure might be ...

              The resales on the new 7's are weaker than pond water .. 02 745Li's with all the stuff and miles in the 12/15k range are only doing "around" that $50kish range for trade/auction $$, that's pretty sad for a vehicle that had an MSRP of $80ish+ 18 months ago ...

                          Terry.
  • amber12amber12 Member Posts: 1
    I am trying to find out some information about this model BMW. Looking for comments on years made - supposed to be a 1989 model but I cannot locate - think it was earlier. It is a 4 dr. V-8. I have driven a MBenz for quite a few years but considering a change
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    regarding tire rotation, BMW does not recommend tire rotation on any of its cars, as far as I know. I'm not sure why.

    Tire mfg's, on the other hand, generally insist on tire rotation if you want to maintain the mileage warranty.

    Regarding a "720iL" V8, there is not and never has been such a car. The last two digits indictate the engine's liter displacement, i.e., a 745 has a 4.5 liter engine. A 720 would have a 2.0 liter engine. The only 2.0 liter BMW engine is a 4 cylinder.

    Back in the early 80's you could get a 720 in Europe--a full sized sedan with the tiny 2.0 liter 4 cylinder engine. Never made it to the US for obvious reasons.

    Only 1989 7 series models were the 735 six cyl and the 750 v12.

    warning: the 1993-1995 740 V8 had a "nikasil" engine which was defective. Avoid this car unless the engine has been replace with an "alusil" engine. don't trust the dealer to properly inform you on this issue.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "warning: the 1993-1995 740 V8 had a "nikasil" engine which was defective. Avoid this car unless the engine has been replace with an "alusil" engine. don't trust the dealer to properly inform you on this issue."

    Wow.....that's reassuring! I thought this kind of stuff only happened to Oldsmobile,,,
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    In an earlier post someone said BMW sweeps the big problems under the rug. Nikasil was one of them. Eventually, BMW was forced to extend the warranty to 6yrs/100,000 miles, but that warranty now is gone and a lot of engines never were fixed.

    The problem is that the cylinder walls corroded in the presence of high-sulpher US fuels. Lots of used car dealers out there are selling nikasil V8 740's, asking top dollar and not even aware of the problem.

    1995-98 Jag V8 has the same problem, but apparently to much less of a degree.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Hmmmm, I thought the Jag V-8 came out in 98. No?
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    you may be correct. 1995 was clearly wrong on my part. can't recall if the v8 came out in 98 or 97, so now I'm mixed up on whether the 99 v8 is nikasil. a jag expert would know more. I'm sure the 1998 has the problem because one of my friends has a 98 XK8. apparently the plastic guides for the timing chain also are suspect on the early v8's (his literally blew apart a couple months ago, but fortunately there was no collateral valvetrain damage).
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, ok then, I will definitely steer clear of the 98 either way. Thanks.
  • johncaliforniajohncalifornia Member Posts: 28
    >> The problem is that the cylinder walls corroded in the presence of high-sulpher US fuels. Lots of used car dealers out there are selling nikasil V8 740's, asking top dollar and not even aware of the problem.

    Threads like this are a good example of how misinformation gets spread around on these boards and eventually accepted by many as truth.

    There was a problem with the 1995 4.0L and high-sulphur fuel in some southeastern states. Here in California the problem is non-existent. Yet, dealers and private sellers are asking anything BUT top dollar. They are practically giving away 1995/1996 740-series.

    Any 1995 740 that has not had Nikasil-related engine problems to this date never will. A clean, well-running '95 could be the ultimate 740-series bargain.
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    well, misinformation certainly gets spread around all right. Where did you get yours?

    The Nikasil V8 was intoduced in 1993 and infected all 1993 and 1994 e32 v8's. BMW extended the warranty on all of these cars to 100,000 miles and 6 years. I can personally vouch for that because when I shopped a 1993 V8 in 1997 the salesman made a big deal about the extended warranty, and the service manger quietly warned me away from the V8 because of the known, nikasil issue.

    Yet somehow you think the problem was limited to 1995.

    as for the idea that it is limited to the southeast, I personally know people in the Northwest whose V8 blocks were replaced under warranty due to nikasil corrosion of the cylinder walls. Or maybe BMW was just giving away free engine blocks for the heck of it?

    more info on the problem can be found at numerous web sites which, unfortunately, Edmunds will not let me give links to ("competing" sites). I'll just say that on one very active BMW 7-series board, we get at least one poor fool a month who just bought a nikasil 740 and now is realizing that rough idle will not be fixed by a "tune up."

    Whether a 4.0 block is nikasil or alusil can be determined by examining the serial number. Due to the link problem, any interest person will have to Google for a list of serial numbers to stay away from.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So THAT's the reason for the rough idle, eh?
  • whemmewhemme Member Posts: 4
    I have a 1994 BMW 740iL that I have owned for 7 years with the original Nikasil V8 engine. It currently has 60,000 miles on it with no hint of idle problems associated with sulfur in the fuel damage to cylinders of this particular engine alloy. I have always used AMOCO - now BP - Ultimate premium fuel because of it's low sulfur content. I live in Iowa. I personally think that a Nikasil V8 engine that has lasted this long with no idle/compression problems probably will last OK into the future because the fuel refiners are reducing the sulfur content in the fuel more and more under federal regulations as time goes on.

    Any other opinions on this?
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    Whemme, thanks for asking. I've got an opionion on the Ultimate Driving machine. It constantly amazes me that BMW can get away with this and more (plastic in the thermostat area, bad radiators, extreme tendency to alignment/vibration problems, tendency to overheat and crack heads, horrendous repair expenses, maintenance schedules that only a C130 crew chief could relate to, the obsessive-compulsive suggested frequency of changing fluids that American V8s run with for their entire 150K mile life) and still sell these things.

    If this were an American car line, New York's Elliot Spitzer would have them in court once Martha vacated a court room. And I write this as a former 7 Series owner who had good experiences!

    As an aside, I spoke with a fellow tonight about his new 7 Series. I fully expected a blast about i Drive. Rather than knock it, he dismissed with it as just something that you get used to using. His big complaint was the overly gimmicky features of the car that resulted in all new control settings when he picked it up after dealer service. He continued on about the tendency for i Drive to reset his radio settings, the lack of a solid feel with the controls (he constantly leaves his left turn signal on for the first time in his life), and all the other gimmicks that annoy as opposed to impress. Wow! He wasn't a happy camper in his 80K soap box. As we both left the athletic club parking lot with the snow coming down heavily I suspect he would have been far happier in a Denali or AWD Volvo for a lot less money and aggravation. Maybe these aren't the Ultimate Driving machines but you can get home in them in New England on a February night.
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    wrote "I personally think that a Nikasil V8 engine that has lasted this long with no idle/compression problems probably will last OK into the future because the fuel refiners are reducing the sulfur content in the fuel more and more under federal regulations as time goes on."

    I think you probably are right. It still is more than possible, however, to pick up a 4.0 liter BMW V8 that has NOT been carefully shielded from low-sulpher fuel, and it is hard to tell exactly what they are selling down at the local Quicky-Mart on a given day. Therefore, a 4.0 liter BMW V8 has an element of risk associated with it which is not found in other automobiles.

    The 4.4 liter V8 and all V12's are Alusil motors which do not have the sulpher corrosion problem.

    I'll also note that the particular Nikasil formulation used on the 4.0 liter BMW V8 seems to have been particularly susceptible to sulpher corrosion and that other Nikasil engines (e.g., Porsche and Jaguar) are not nearely as "at risk" as the BMW.
  • redsweetredsweet Member Posts: 1
    Hello,

    I am in the process of buying a 1984 733I, but I want alittle more history on the 733I itself. I can't seem to find any comments on this vehicle. Is there anyone out there to direct me to website that can tell me the original sticker price for this vehicle. It seems I should be able to find something.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The 733i is a variation of the original 7 series introduced by BMW in 1977. The 733i was the only 7 series available in the USA until late 1984 when the 735i came out.

    List price was about $37,000 without options.

    Graham Robson has a nice book out on the History of the 7 series which you can buy for $22 from Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1861264399/104-5259- 879-4157568?v=glance

    I'm sure that a search on Google using the keywords "History of the BMW 7 Series" will get you to parts outlets and forums.

    Also be sure you have this car checked out thoroughly prior to purchase as they can be expense to repair relative to their market value, which is not very high at the moment. So be sure you pay a fair price as well. Very often parts can be found on Ebay, I have very good luck there--if one is patient.

    Good luck with it.

    MrShiftright
    Host on the Coupes & Convertibles Board
    Just Visiting Here!
  • peakspeaks Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know if the 1997 740iL garage door opener could be set for the revolving code door openers?
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    I've noticed that the 2001 740il has 2 different dash layouts -- one with a small squarish navigation screen and one with a much larger rectangular screen. They seem to be the same year car (2001) and the same model (740il).

    Are there different dashboard layouts for this car or am I missing something here?

    Thanks for your help!!
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    For most cars I've noticed that to program the "revolving code" type openers you have to first program the garage remote to one of the buttons on the car, then go up to the opener itself and press a little black button that turns on a flashing red light next to it (the black button is usually hidden next to the light bulb on the opener). While that red light is flashing (around 15 seconds till it stops) you have to press the button you just programmed on the car from one to five times until the garage door opens or closes.

    Sounds complicated I know, but pretty easy once you've done it a couple of times.

    I hope this helps.. good luck.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    It's enormously complicated, and sometimes tough to do alone, ladders required and all, but I can testify, it does work. I have 2 garages, and both are programmed in. What I can't get to work, is the gate to the community button. I guess it's because I can't get to the rotating code button on the opener. But my niece has her Lincoln LS programmed to open her gate where she lives...... I gave up on the gate.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    I know we're veering out of 7 series talk but just a quick note on opening gates... I had a similar problem with my community gate.. it turns out I had to change the battery on the clicker to get a "stronger" signal to the homelink system in the car.. now it opens just fine. Also, depending on the system, many times you might have to continuously hold down the homelink button and get REAL close to the gate to open it.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I may give 'er another go.
  • hookteehooktee Member Posts: 2
    Interested in 95 740i with 240k at 6,500.00 is there anything I should be looking out for, and is this a good deal? Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Miles are too high. I'd bail on that one. One major repair and you are in the car double the money. Statistically at least, the car has reached the end of its life. If it's the world's cleanest and you simply must have it no matter what, offer about $4,000 tops. It's too high priced for that mileage. You'd be better off paying $10K and getting something with "normal miles", around 120K.
  • michaelmichael Member Posts: 3
    Friend is selling a 92 750il with 140,000 miles. In good shape, well maintained, regular service. Am I crazy to even consider, regardless of purchase price?
  • davieboy1davieboy1 Member Posts: 14
    I am trying to decide betweeen 745i and A8 base versions. New lease in area for 745 with no options is $789 for 36months, 10000 miles, nothing down, taxes/title not included. Any thoughts on the 2 cars or the lease. Thanks
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    It's going to cost $28.4K+ to drive the car for 3 years. + taxes and fees. Considering the car's depreciation, etc., it doesn't sound like a great deal to me.
  • davieboy1davieboy1 Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for the answer. The idrive and previous posts on the 745i bother me. Does anyone have any thoughts about the A8 or another car for a sedan to replace an suv
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What about a 5 series BMW? the 528i of a few years past is an awfully nice car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Q45?
    XJ8?
    S500?
  • f1buickf1buick Member Posts: 45
    I own a 1993--almost identical car. You are not crazy, but I wouldn't every pay more than $6000. At 140k you'll be getting a complex car with a lot of miles and, potentially, many long-term parts that are due for replacement. 140k, for example, is on the tail end of the tranny lifespan in that car.

    I think there are 3 types of people who own cars like this:

    1. Those who lease them new and under warranty

    2. Those who buy them out of warranty, thinking they are getting a great deal, but who then find out that maintenance can be pricy and try to sell them

    3. Those hardy souls who do all their own maintenance and repairs, and end up with a world-class auto for cheap.

    I'm in the latter category. My car actually is pretty darned reliable for an 11 year-old, but when it does falter, it is not easy to work on.
    If your a hot-rodder who loves to tinker, these cars are nirvana. If you like Honda Accords just fine and are only considering the 750 because the price sounds low and you're curious about having a BMW, stay away.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The S430 just went way up on my list today. At least as nice inside as the 7 - with no I-drive.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2004 Survey is posted and ready for your input!
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    F1Buick, thanks for the nice three part typology of 7 Series owners (the buy it/lease it/dump it in three years crowd; the guy who gets who in way over his pretentious head on a used Bimmer he can't afford to keep up, and the small coterie of Do It Yourself types).

    But how about the canny guy who zips in to buy a CPO 7 Series for somewhere in the high 30's (because of the high depreciation) and then dumps it years later at 99,000 miles when the CPO warranty runs out? Didn't he beat the system? Or is the CPO Warranty essentially a come on and not comparable to the new car warranty?
  • michaelmichael Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for the insight. 12 cylinders might be 4 to 6 too many for a guy who drives 6000 miles a year
  • designodesigno Member Posts: 14
    After owning my S430 for a horrifying two years, I want to get rid of it ASAP.

    My main concern is that I have heard reports that a refreshed 7 Series sedan is comming relatively soon; seen claims from as early as late this year to 2005.

    I would like to take delivery of a new sedan sometime late this year. Should I wait it out for the 2005 model or just get the '04? (I am worried that because it will be a refreshed model, there will be software/electrical bugs, as opposed to the '04 model, which has been out for two years).

    Any input would be great! (FYI: Although I enjoy the BMW the most, I am also considering the Audi A8L, Jaguar Vanden-Plas, and Mercedes S430 (hopefully it will be better!)

    Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well if that "refreshment" includes styling, I think I would wait, because if it is "cleaned up" and it is popular, then the 04 models will depreciate more rapidly than normal.
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    I had a chance to see the huge auto classsified section in the LA Times over the weekend. It beats everything else in the US combined! (E.G., if you combine the used car ads of the Boston Globe, Washington Post, NY Times, etc. you still wouldn't have the LA Times used car lineage.) Anyway, I've long hoped that I could get into a used '02 745 late this fall for around 40K. I may be (slightly) wrong. The 01 7 Series in the LA Times were at 43K or so, asking. The '00 7 Seriese were at 35K or so, asking.

    Even so, if this is a good guide, it looks like I can pick up a 745 next April for the target price and even get a CPO unit. (How else to buy one of these?). I happen to like the regular wheelbase series (do you really need the iL to carry around a gym bag?). Does anyone think that the iL commands significantly more resale than a non iL or is it a non-issue? Even if one was going to get a set of snow tires on dedicated wheels for winter and make the tire size difference between the two wheelbases a moot point, the larger tire/wheel package on the iL must hydroplane more and less suitable to foul weather?

    In any case, I figure that with the 30K I saved over MSRP, I could hire a good looking programmer to check me out on I drive for the first week or so.
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