Lincoln Town Car

vic19 · May 2002

I am looking for a car and I still have about $1,000 credit toward any Ford product through the old Citibank Ford credit card. I was astonished to discover that I could buy a 92 base Town Car with the $7,000 rebate and my $1,000 for about $29,000. That's cheap. Or is is cheap? The Town Car is a pleasant vehicle, but it really seems like damaged goods when you can get a $7,000 rebate.

Any comments?

kinley · May 2002

My plan is to buy an 03 in a year on the same level. Portland, OR dealers have been selling Executives for $29,995. Your $1,000 is right on.

vic19 · May 2002

I mean is the car so bad that Ford must give away all it's profit and then some to the tune of an unheard of $7,000 to move the car.

At $30,000 the Town Car is close to a well equiped Crown Vic, but I guess they also have substantial rebates attched to them.

Why is there so much resistance to the car?

kinley · May 2002

for $9,000 of MSRP. The car is not bad, just way over priced at the gitgo. Resistance is due to the age group of men who have the wisdom and experience to appreciate a fine automobile. IMO there is not much quality difference between the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis, but there is a significant difference between the GM & TC.

kinley · June 2002

Cadillac 172,083 in 2001. Down 9%

Lincoln 158,934 in 2001 Down 17.7%

When will Lincoln recognize the need for a more powerful engine to compete with Cadillac? 300 hp should be the minimum for a luxury car of 4,000 lbs.

pat · June 2002

The Town Hall is about to take on a new look in an effort to make content more easily searchable and accessible.

Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.

And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.

Pat
Sedans Host

moondawg · June 2002

I recently came upon a used TC at a local dealers lot.It's a 97 Signature series.Nice shape.Some marring.It's advertised mileage is at 56k.Price asking..$14,900.I can't seem to find safety issues on this car.Anyone familiar?Should I pass on it or should i go for it?My other possible choice is a new Taurus.(My future father-in-law thinks the Taurus is garbage.In defense of him,he owns,and is a hands on owner of a transmission garage.)

audia8q · June 2002

The majority of T/C sales come from Fleet sales...which were way off in the past 6-7 months....

This is the big reason for the decline in sales...not the lack of Hp.

Rich

kinley · June 2002

Do you think Lincoln will offer an optional 300 hp engine in 2003? I'd pay up to $500 more for the privilege enabling the navigation of mountains better. Around here, new Executives are advertised for $29,995. I choose to wait and get a 2003 in about a year for that price and perhaps within that year the optional power package (300 hp) will be available. Your thoughts?

audia8q · June 2002

We do not expect Lincoln to offer an optional engine on the T/C...The 239hp will the the only engine offered unless they make an abrupt change in mid-year. On the 2003 they changed the axle ratio to 3.27 from 3.08 on the Exec and Signature and 3.55 on the Touring sedan T/C...This should help to get the land yacht off the line a bit quicker.

For those who didnt realize...the HP was increased slightly for 2003 over 2002. The Exec and Sig had 220 hp and the Touring editions had 235.

shewenchen · June 2002

I am current on the market to buy a 2002/03 Town Car or Seville/Deville. My main consideration now is reliability and durability of the vehicle. I would prefer to buy a model with engine and chassis being in use for at least 2-3 years instead of brand new to avoid some bugs or calibration problems. Could anyone assist or share your experience if you happen to own one? Thanks.

vic19 · June 2002

I've rented both several times.

The Cad is has a much larger interior. The front seat feels downright clostrophobic in the TC compared with the Cad. There is significant more room in the back of the Cad.

Cad with it's North Star engine has the smoothest power train of any car.

The TC is showing its age. Maybe that's the reason Ford is rebating the TC $7,000.

rea98d · June 2002

56K is barely broken in for the Town Car. Expect 200,000-300,000 with religous oil changes and not hammering it at WOT from every stoplight. And beleive me, there's no comparison. A Taurus will never be as nice of a car as a Town Car. Give me a 10 year old Town car over a brand new Taurus any day.

kinley · June 2002

the 300 h.p. engine used in the Marauder?

moondawg · June 2002

ThankYou for your imput.still don't know what I'm buying yet!I'll let all know.....:)

jerrym3 · June 2002

Edmunds does not list a 2003 Touring Sedan. Where are you getting your input?

kinley · June 2002

The Premium Signature is mentioned in the 2003 Towncar brochure, page 22.

jerrym3 · June 2002

was a separately priced model. I never thought that the Premium Signature was synonymous with Touring Sedan.

Is this a new wrinkle? What about the slight styling differences that the 2002 TSedan had?

corsicachevy · June 2002

Wouldn't it be nice if Lincoln had an engine/transmission package to call it's own - like Caddilac does with the Northstar?

Here is my idea: Lincoln should produce an aluminum block version of the 5.4 SOHC V8 used in Ford's truck line for duty in the Town Car. With the proper tuning this engine could easily produce a smooth, silent 280hp and 350lb-ft of torque. Plus, it would fit under the hood of the new model without having to make any modifications. To round out the package, Ford should introduce its new 5 speed automatic (apparently one is under development of the F150 line) in the Town Car along with the new engine.

Give this new powertrain a name with Lincoln history like "Zephyr" and FoMoCo would have a decent package that could go head-to-head with Caddilac in terms of performance and marketing.

Just and idea......

gkarg · June 2002

Lincoln does have a named engine system - the 32 valve engine in the Conti & old Mark 8 was called "InTech".

My 2000 Lincoln LS has a 5-speed auto tranny & is the same one that the Ford Explorer has used for the last several model years, too.

corsicachevy · June 2002

For some reason the name "InTech" never really caught on as a catchy moniker. Let's face it, the name stinks and should be changed.

The 5 speed auto in the LS and the Explorer is not capable of handling the torque of a 5.4 V8 Triton. I think its rated to something like 310lb-ft.

rea98d · June 2002

Didn't that name get stuck on some subcompact Mercury in the '70's? For some reason, That doesn't sound like something worth bringing back. On the other hand, "Continental" is now available, and I think Lincoln has a lot more "brand equity" with that than with Zephyr. Expect to see something called "Continental" from Lincoln in the next few years, even if it's nothing more than a option package on the Town Car. I can almost guarantee they'll recycle the name on something.

audia8q · June 2002

The HP numbers I mentioned should have been for 2002. For 03 I think they are all 239hp with regular unleaded fuel..

This time of year I cant get the model years straight....hey I even had 2001, 2002 and 2003 new gran marquis here at the sametime..lol

jerrym3 · June 2002

Is there a 2003 Touring Sedan model? If not, what does the buyer order to get the lower rear end ratio and stiffer suspension?

corsicachevy · June 2002

Actually, Lincoln has a beautiful Continental concept car making the rounds right now. I actually had a picture of the car up as my computer wallpaper a few weeks back. You wouldn't believe the number of "oooos" and "ahhhs" the car received from my co-workers - mostly 30-45 years of age.

corsicachevy · June 2002

http://www.supercars.net/

Go to "concepts" and then 2002 Lincoln Continental

audia8q · June 2002

No Touring sedan for 03.

For 03...All the retail T/C come with 239hp, 287 torque and a 3.27 rear. No optional rear from the factory.

For fleet only...the livery package comes with a 3.55 rear.

kinley · June 2002

is a great idea.

jerrym3 · June 2002

What about the Touring Sedan's stiffer suspension? Is it now standard on the new TC?

TC with 3:27; GM/CV's with standard 2:73.

Interesting.

The new TC is starting to grow on me the more I see it. The middle section of the fron seat, when down, almost makes you feel like the car had buckets.
Now that the Conti is dead, too bad they don't offer buckets/console in the TC

audia8q · June 2002

There is no touring sedan for 03...but the ride improvements make the ride and drive superior to the 02 touring sedan.

have you had an chance to drive the new T/C?....The improvements seem to be exactly what the car needed without running off the core buyers of the car....I personally would have liked a little more design work on the exterior but the ride improvements exceeded my expectations.

kinley · June 2002

offer their outgoing Executives for $29,995. The corporate rebates 7 grand, the dealer 3 and you get a new TC for 10 off MSRP. In your opinion - will this practice continue next Spring for the 03'? If so, I'll spring for one then. Autumn red with WSW tires and it will still have more than I'm used to with the 94 Signature.

trainiac · June 2002

Same old!! Please redesign the interior with floor shift, do something with the power train and rear suspension. This car needs to be updated not just a grille change that looks like the Buick Le Sabre.

kinley · June 2002

I'm against it, but a 300 hp engine with 315 torque would be acceptable. IRS is O K too.

audia8q · June 2002

T/C buyers would revolt over a floor shifter. Adding a floor shifter would kill T/C sales, not help it.

Get to know the T/C's real buyers and you would see the floor fhifter suggestions would be a disaster....Also the big percentage of buyers are fleet and they would never take a floor shifter for livery service.

jerrym3 · June 2002

Doesn't have to be a "standard". Buckets/console could be part of a Touring Sedan package. I'll bet that all of the pieces already available on the GM and CV bucket seat models would fit the Lincoln.

Maybe Lincoln ought to realize that the next generation of TC buyers may have different ideas about cars. Look at the luxury cars offered by the foreign competition- buckets/console/performance. Why is the guy buying those cars any different from the TC non-fleet buyer?

Or is Lincoln happy just being the car of choice for limo drivers?

kinley · June 2002

Front buckets, floor shifter, & performance for a lot less than the Jag S 4.2 sedan.

audia8q · June 2002

The older generation of buyers just don't seem to want anything but a true six passenger seating arrangement.

All the time I have been with Lincoln I have never had anyone even ask for a floor shifter version. except a couple on edmunds...
remember the T/C is primarily built because of fleet not because of retail buyers... This is why fleet/livery dictate so much of the cars build. Almost every change for 2003 was in response to livery and fleet buyers requests.

rea98d · June 2002

Fleet buyers must really like hood ornaments!

Really, unless you have a manual transmission and need to have the floor shifter there, I don't see a point to a floor shifter. I've owned both kinds, and prefer to have it on the steering column. Floor shifters and bucket seats just serve to isolate you from pretty female passengers...Um, oops. I didn't say that, you just thought I did. To me, it's like ground effects or a 3 foot tall spoiler. Something designed to make the car "look" fast, but has zero impact on performance. Maybe confuse a few non-car types into thinking you have a manual when you don't. Having the shifter on the column just seems more out of the way than sticking up from the floorboard.

jerrym3 · June 2002

audia8q: my post was the next generation of TC buyers, not the present one. (Remember, us gearheads are getting older.)

kinley: I don't think the LS fits the niche. There's a lot of buyers out there that don't want a sports sedan but still want to drive something a little bit different from the regular model. Case in point: CV LX Sport/GM LSE/Marauder (cars that are "sportier" than the base models) and the key foreign manufacturers (BMW, Lexus, Jaguar, Infiniti, Acura) offering sports sedans and luxury sedans that can still perform.

rea98d: you're absolutely correct; nobody needs buckets.

But then, who needs cars that can exceed 120 mph and take a 20 mph curve at 50, or SUV's to carry one/two occupants 95% of the time?

If you think about it, most of your time spent with your car is IN the car. An interior that suits your needs reinforces your purchase.

I couldn't even imagine my 94 Thunderbird with bench seats; in fact, it was the new dash that came out in 94 that pushed me over the edge. I still think that the mid 90's TBirds have one of the nicest dashes ever made. Instrument area blends into the console in one fluid design, and the console instruments are slightly canted towards the driver.

Very well done.

jerrym3 · June 2002

... at a restaurant last Saturday.

Four couples (myself and three brothers-in-law with wives) went to dinner at a fairly high class restaurant.

We all drove separately (02 Explorer, 98 Explorer, 02 Lexus LS, and my 89 TownCar-just washed that day, white/black Signature).

When I gave the keys to the parking attendant, he said I wouldn't need a ticket, just ask for the white Lincoln.

During dinner, I asked if anybody else got a parking receipt. They all did!

Sure enough, when we left, they all had to present receipts, while I just said (like the old commercial), "the white Lincoln TownCar, please".

Amongst all the newer domestic and foreign cars, they all remembered the white Lincoln.

There is a point where driving a clean, older car in excellent shape gets the same, or more, attention than newer models.

(Naturally, I had to needle by brother-in-law with the brand new Lexus for spending over 50K on such a "common" vehicle.)

audia8q · June 2002

I'm not surprised...your 89 T/C has some styling to it....the big Lexus is rather generic and lacks any personality.
When we get the mid to late 80's T/C in trade there is always people in line to buy. We took in a 89 with 75K last night and the engine had not even cooled down before it got re-sold.

kinley · June 2002

had the 351 engine & that was the last year for that. '81 through '90 have the little 302 and those are sad in comparison to the 351 or the OHC 4.6 from '91 until now. It's too bad the Mark VIII engine could never have been an option on the TC.

rea98d · June 2002

I know the T-Bird interior you're talking about, I have a '95 Thunderbird. But I also have a '78 Grand Marquis with the "split bench" seats and shifter on the steering column, and I must say I like that arrangement much better. I've just never understood why a floor shifter is considered a requirement on "sporty" cars. Column shifter is one of the biggest complaints about 94 & 95 Impalla SS's. "It's supposed to be a performance car, why does it have the shifter on the steering column?" I've never understood that argument, as the car will not go any faster with a auto trans with the shifter on the floor, than one with the same transmission and the shifter on the column. Bucket seats as a "performance" option I can understand, however, because bucket seats are supposed to help keep you butt planted better during hard cornering. If it's personal preference to have the shifter in the floor, I can't argue with that. But to put it there only because it's supposed to be a "performance" car.....Somewhere, my sense of logic fails to make that leap.

jerrym3 · June 2002

Let's call it "personal preference".

My 58 TBird probably has the first factory bucket seat/console setup/shift on the column) in a four seat passenger car. (I believe the 58 Bonneville came with buckets, but no console).

Maybe it's a male "marking your space" territorial thing (this side of the console belongs to ME; that side is yours).

I converted my 64 Galaxie 500 convert to a 500XL with buckets/console. I've also owned the following bucket seat cars: 65 vette, 66 Cyclone, 68 Cyclone GT; 85 Turbocoupe; and (present) 94 TBird.

Of course, when you're young, the last thing you want is a car with bucket seats, so many's the time that friends of mine got to use my 65 Vette on Saturday nights while I used their non bucket seat cars.

Floor shifts were "out" on Saturday nights as well (first, second, third, and excuse me.)

Mostly an appearance thing, because, as we all know, buckets/console do not transform a car into a performance car.

Got the 2003 TC catalog yesterday. Car looks better and better each time I see it, and that "silver birch" color is a winner.

Now, if it only had buckets..........

phkck · June 2002

The 2002's had $7,000 off and more locally. When do you expect the 2003's to have big incentives. Jan, next summer? (I think car is a great value at $7,000 off!)

kinley · June 2002

brand new 2002 Executives for $29,995. After seeing the 2003 I'm waiting for them to go on sale next Spring for less than 30 grand as well.
The 2003 Executive has everything and more than what's on our 94 Signature. Are you going to trade your 02 Excursion for the Towncar?

rea98d · June 2002

Considering how much better the '03 Town Car is to the '02, I don't know if you're going to see incentives that big on the new '03's when the '04's come out. No one's going to pay new car prices for the '02 when the '03 has so many improvements, so dealers discount the '02's to move them outta there for the new ones. It's nothing new. My Grandma bought a '78 Grand Marquis in March of '78, and got a pretty good deal on it because they were trying to clear them out for the all new '79's. Certainly, the end of a model year is a good time to get a new car, but I think the improvements to the '03 has raised the demand for that model more than if the '03 had been unchanged from '02. I'd be surprised if brand new '03's are selling for what brand new '02's are this time next year, unless Ford makes significant improvements in the next year, which isn't very likely.

kinley · June 2002

sales of American luxury cars will not increase and may decline considering the economy. Most folk over 65 who buy Lincolns are concerned about their retirement income being there for them. The stock market isn't going to bubble up as in '99 and the small gains will be long in coming. Consumer non confidence coupled with management infidelity is not making any possible recovery easier. These are some of the reasons inventory of 03 TC may be overwhelming next Spring. I expect to pay $29,995 for an 03 next year, new. I'd pay that today for an 03 too. I can wait as the 94 TC is still smoothly quiet.

phkck · June 2002

Just looking at my options, but will probably be getting rid of the Excursion in the next year or so. We no longer need the tow vehicle, so looking for something a little (lot) more fuel efficient. It is an 00 Exc.

rea98d · June 2002

Interesting point Kinley. I was just looking at why the '03's were more desirable than the '02's. I hadn't considered the shape of the overall market. Then again, that's why I get paid to draw pictures instead of being a stock analyst ;-)

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