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Comments
I got the car back today. All they did is replace the transmission fluid and refused to change the coolant or the spark plugs, they said that it didn't need it (suggested 100,000 miles).
Is that true or should I insist on having it done?
As for the banging noise, they said that everything looks tight and nothing is worn, and that they could not duplicate the noise (like usual). I have a feeling this one is going to be hard to trace.
However I would not go that long. Any engine will run better with a fresh set of plugs, not to mention it will more than likely be a pain for whoever changes the plugs at 100,000 due to electrolysis between the plug and the aluminum head.
How many miles do you have on the car? I have never heard of any dealer turning away work from a paying customer (regardless if they are cable of doing the work or not) or did you expect to have this covered by warranty?
As far as the knock in the front suspension, cannot give much advice on that. However on old technology suspensions that knock when backing up then moving forward that was typical of worn control arm bushings and/or ball joints; usually the lower control arm. Modern day strut suspensions do not have upper control arms or ball joints but do have lower control arms with their associated bushings.
We discussed everything I wanted done, and how much each job would cost. I was ready to pay the whole thing gladly, but maybe they were too busy and didn't want to do it (even though they kept the car a day longer than promised). I was surprised too that they didn't want every penny I was willing to spend.
I guess I'll try another 5 star dealer that's also near my house.
I have 54,000 miles on my 98 concorde Lxi and my 5* dealer has tested the coolant and told me that it is good.
I would think that you should change these at close to 75,000 miles.
Moreover, I would also advise anyone to strictly follow the severe schedule in the vehicle manual and not the dealer's 'printed' schedule.
Most dealers do not update their 'printed' menus regularly and in your case the dealer might have printed the menu before the new-generation (98 and later) Lh cars were introduced.
I have had such an experience once and if I were to follow my dealer's printed schedule then I would have violated his newer schedule which he updated 2 years after the newer cars were introduced.
I must say that after the transmission service, I do notice a difference in the way the it shifts. It's much smoother than it was before the service, especially from 1st to 2nd. At slow speed it was kind of rough and a bit jerky shifting to 2nd gear but now I hardly feel it at any speed, and no hesitation or bangs at slow speeds. I really didn't expect that much of a difference in the way it behaves, but I'm really surprised (and happy).
Today was a very nice warm day, so I washed the car and used some Zaino. It still looks like day one, amazing. Now all I need is to get rid of that damn clunk noise, and we'll be perfect again
Have a 2000 LHS with 31,000 miles on it. With the exception of an air conditioning pump, we have been okay mechanically on the car other than what are ultimately minor issues.
The "biggest" minor issue right now has to do with the Drivers side seat. I just recently had the car in for its 30K service and for the third time I have told them that drivers side seat is loose and moves forward noticeably when stopping. Twice previously they have replaced or tightened the seat track but now they are telling me that this is a "normal" condition. When I spoke with the service person, he told me that there was a communication from Chrysler about this. When I went down to pick up the car from the service, I spoke with the service manager and he assured me that the service person mis-understood him and that there was a service bulletin out for this problem and they would order the parts and call me. Well when I called back, the parts dept had no idea what I was talking about and in speaking with the service manager's boss, he has indicated to me that the service bulletin I was shown, was for the VOYAGER and not for the LHS. Needless to say, I'm feeling like a lot of smoke is being blown at me about this. I now have an appointment on the 26th with the district manager and we will see what happens there.
My whole point of this long message is to find out if anyone else is experiencing this same seat movement.
Thanks in advance!
Mark Nelson
Cypress, CA
The seat movement is not normal! There are recent posts on the 300m site about this. Look at posts #13694 & #13691, you can ask specific questions to these posters. I have not had this problem, fingers crossed. One person said that the TSB calls out for new seat bolts - the ones that bolt the seat to the floor pan. Another poster said that they just had the whole power seat assembly replaced because the TSB did not solve their problem.
But, this problem occurs only during the day. It has never happened in the night in the 4 years of ownership. With the headlight switch in the 'ON' position, the headlights would switch off, occasionally, for 2-3 seconds and then come back on. The intensity of the dash lights would also adjust accordingly when this happened, similar to turning the headlight knob off and on.
I took the car a couple of times to the dealer.
This problem never occurs when I am at the dealer.
So, I just decided to ignore it rather than let the dealer experiment on my car.
I am inclined to believe that it is a software glitch because this behavior is seen only during the day. It is like the car forgets that it is a Concorde and not a 300M and therefore not supposed to have auto lights and turns the lights back on. If it were a loose connection issue then this problem would have happened in the night also.
From articles I've read recently, the common vibration and pulling problems are due to a design flaw of the LH cars. I remember, because it was talking about the 2004 LX cars and how it will be fixed with the new design. I'm not sure what the "flaw" in the design actually is, but I do know it causes a lot of problems and greef. Currently, on the 300M board, an owner is dealing with a constant vibration in his car that seems to be unfixable.
He's gone through new Goodyears, had the dealer say that a rim or two was bent and order new ones and it still vibrated. He went to Arbitration and won, and the dealer was ordered to fix the problem. His original dealer bought 4 new Continental tires and did an allignment but the vibration persisted. He then took it to a Dodge-only dealer that is supposedly experianced in the issue, and has fixed 9 of 10 previous cars with a vibration after Arbitration. So far, they alligned the car again and now put a new set of Michelins on the car and it still vibrates. The dealer has had the tires inspected and it was found that out of the Michelins, 3 of the 4 were defective! So now, there's another new set of tires due in tomorrow to try again.
As for your car seeming to not keep balanced, it's a somewhat common problem. If you're confidant in your dealer, have them take a look and see what they'll do. I know from our 2000 300M with the Eagle LSs, that it still has a constant vibration in the front end. We're tired of going to the dealer (several other problems) and are living with the shakes. I think what we need is a nice new set of quiet of treads and a proper and thorough allignment.
-R
Once the new fluid was installed, the transmission is much more smooth in shifting; seems to be transmitting power better to the wheels.
I think it a worth-while but expensive thing to do. Cost was $360 including replacing the differential fluid.
:-(
"The TSB is number 23-019-01
I ordered part number 05080982AA and fixed it myself. You need two of these bolts for each seat. They were $5.70 each. I've only installed the drivers side and it's a real quick fix. After 1 month or more, still no movement.
Get you a T50 torx bit for a 3/8" rachet, in fact get you a small set of Torx rachet bits and a Torx screwdrive set, they come in very handy when working on a 300M.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rpowelljr300n/lst?.dir=/My+Photos/Seat+Movement+Fix"
Hope this helps!
I always do that and grumble like mad. One of these days, I'll learn to stay away from the first two years of a new model.
Regarding MB, I can tell you horror stories on my two, an '85 300SD and an '88 560SEL. The first had oil leaks from the front main seal which required mfg rep to get fixed. The dealer kept saying that such leaking was normal and the Germans in Europe didn't mind. Oil coated the interior of the engine compartment. Being of German extraction, I can tell you they MINDED.
The second Merc, an almost 4000 pounder, was extremely hard on pads and rotors. Every 12K for pads and every 24K for rotors at the tune of $300 and $900 each time. Interestingly, this brake problem was only on the front wheels, the rear set lasted till I got rid of the car at 120K miles. I always thought the brake equalization was screwed up but I understand from the dealer that most were like that. And I do not ride the brakes. Plus, even with limited slip, the 560SEL couldn't get up our minimal hills here in No. Virginia if we had the least bit of snow or ice. What an unreliable car.
Regarding MB and quality/customer care, their track record isn't particularly good. Further, IMHO, they are gutting Chrysler, particularly in grabbing funding once held for new development. Notice that it's gone!!
Not a MB fan here and will never buy another one. Probably the same thing will apply to Chrysler now that MB has their hooks into the system.
You know that a long time ago I said that you could only use the parts that Chrysler provided to you and that you're not a magician. I also know that the bottom line for Chrysler is $$$$$$$. However, when those $$$$$$$ affect quality, that spells trouble.
Most likely, mileshoover, like I was, is MORE upset with the treatment he gets from his "5-STAR" dealer than he is with the car itself. It's one thing to have a problem with a new car, it's another how that problem is addressed by Chrysler's representative- the dealer!
I think that YOUR union should fight for better quality parts AND better dealer service. BOTH of these things affect YOUR livelihood. So many people are put off by the dealers that they swear off of your cars. After a while, I knew that the dealers were more of a problem because of their LACK of caring than Christine ever was.
I still say that the 300M is one of the best looking cars on the road, BUT I'll take my "blah, mundane looking", quality Acura CL-S ANYDAY! On 3/28, it will be 1 year old. Three dealer visits for oil/filter changes and one tire rotation/balance. THAT'S it in 12,670 miles! If I gave you the VIN on Christine, you wouldn't believe the number of dealer visits during that time for things other than oil changes, as well as the $$$$$$ for warranty work!
MB definitely took Chrysler over the coals. They may have the "reputation" for quality, but they certainly have their problem cars too. I know because my cousin has a lemon one.
fastdriver
My problems with my '99 LHS have been fixed but took a lot of time to convince the dealer to do the work the factory should have done. By that I mean that there is no excuse delivering an auto from the factory with two misaligned doors on the left side when that factory touts the fact that they are building a "2mm" car (one with gaps not exceeding "2mm"). This one had quarter inch to half inch gaps, aligned by an incompetent, and, therefore, wind noise that drove one out of the car.
Yes, $$$$ affect quality, but quality affects sales in the long run. I keep watching Chrysler's sales going down, down, down. Same thing is happening to Ford and they're hurting so bad that bankruptcy may be next. 'Course, the SUV problems didn't help them, but they just went on blythly ignoring customer's complaints just as Chrysler appears to be.
My complaint is simply that the auto companies are not putting in build quality for their products to fit their advertising.
I would have to agree with you on the door gap. That should NOT has left the factory like that. The quality inspector guy was not looking that day.
You are absolutely right- a deaf ear! When the imports take over AGAIN like they did in the 80's, then the Big Three will wake up AGAIN and realize that we're are not going to spend hard-earned money only to become the service department's best friend!
Are you thinking of trading it in soon?
fastdriver
Never had a Japanese-made car, probably won't get one, but not at all sure about any of the US makes any longer. Except for 4 German-made cars, all previous 57 were US-made.
Almost bought a Lexus 400 back in '90 but it didn't hold a candle to the Merc I had at that time even with its overloaded brakes.
Yes? ;-))
fastdriver
No, the price of ~12K for a '99 LHS actually is about right, maybe even a bit high. It is a classic case of the Chrysler product being downgraded due to its known quality problems.
Avoid that auto if you don't want lots of problems in the future. I know because I have one. That pretty well applies to the first two years of almost any new model change from what I have experienced.
So far as Chrysler redesignating the LHS as a Concorde for 2003, IMHO, it is a case of too little money left for development as a result of DC taking the money home to Germany.
DC probably had considerable LHS front and rear ends left over and decided it was the easiest way to upgrade to a "new look" for the least amount of money.
BTW, the '99 LHS was delivered rated at 253 hp and 255 ftlb's of torgue; interesting to see that for '00 onward, it was downgraded to 250 hp and that the '02 'M Special is just now rated at 255 hp, only TWO hp more than the original '99 rating.
Go figger!!
My opinion, you pretty well have it right on your last half of your post.
Anyway...
And yes my rear windows don't go down, etc. etc.
But I have a new issue that I haven't seen discussed. My expensive chrome wheels are corroding to the point that the tire rims don't seal well. I am constantly checking and filling my tires to correct the tire pressure. I know I have to get new wheels but, does anyone have any recommendations. I live in Buffalo, NY so we get everything as far as weather is concerned.
Try e-bay.com. A lot of people replace the wheels on their 300M's, so you might find them there OR go to the 300M discussion group here in Town Hall and ask.
fastdriver
But this is true of most modern cars that I have owned lately. My Merc's were extremely bad on front end vibration while braking due this very thing.
In the case of the LHS, ('94 and '99), I have found that light application of the brakes, applied steadily, keeps the rotors unwarped since not as much immediate heat on the rotors is generated that way. Of course, an emergency stop will require heavy application, so you do what you must. And you'll probably feel vibratiions for a while, depedent upon whether or not the rotor will recover during normal braking. If not, they'll have to be replaced. Lathing them true generally does not work well on Chryslers.
Years ago, it used to be the proper braking method to pump them for better application. Now with modern anti-lock braking, STEADY (not pumping) brake application is better and the way to go. Warped brakes caused similar front end problems on my '94 LHS, not the rack. The '99 running gear is not drastically different. This was usually evident when applying the brakes.
If your front vibrations occur when braking, I suggest you change your braking procedure from pumping to steady application as lightly as you can to stop the car where and when you want.
Regarding corrosion on the LHS wheels, I'm sure that your winter environment and anti-ice/snow salts in Buffalo are probably contributing much to this. I have almost 42K on mine (had it since 4/98), no corrosion or anything. If I lived where you do, I'd be sure to hose salt off the wheels after each exposure to the streets, if at all possible, during winter. If any car washes are open, they should be able to do the same thing.
Regarding sticking windows, it is common with the LH body. Hold down the window button and smack the glass near the top with your palm. The windows will retract in a bit. The problem is that wax from car washes and heat from summer temperatures glue the windows to the seals. Try also wiping down the top edges of all glass, keep it clean; then wipe thru the seals with silicon sprayed on a cloth and clean out the channels. Works fine.
BTW, I'm 73, am on my 61st car since my first new one in 1949 (1950 Buick Special) and have never had to have a steering rack replaced. :^)))
"BTW, I'm 73, am on my 61st car since my first new one in 1949 (1950 Buick Special) and have never had to have a steering rack replaced. :^)))"
When I had my Christine, the dealer replaced my rack and pinion steering rack and the power steering pump to "fix" the left pull!! LOL.... Naturally, it didn't fix it because that wasn't the problem. It was defective Goodyear tires that Goodyear replaced for me at NO cost at 11,000 miles! NO problem with the pull after that!
I wonder how many racks have been replaced on LH cars since 1999 that have NOT solved the customer's problem, but has cost Chrysler a pretty penny. If I could only be a FLY on the wall in Auburn Hills! ;-))
fastdriver
BTW - I had the Goodyear Eagles that were original equipment replaced at about 12,000 miles. And that didn't solve the alignment problem. I am now riding on Yokohama Avid T4s and they are great!!
I also had the Rack replaced when I bought it, but for legitimate reasons - the front end would bang constantly with every bump and every turn. The replacement fixed that problem, but did nothing for the vibration between 55 and 65, and for the severe pulling to the left.
That problem was solved with Michelins.
Great ride and no problems since.
Mostly it's just an annoying clunk, but sometimes it sounds as if the entire wheel has been ripped off.
The last time I had it in, they suspected the sway-bar, and tightened the bolts. But, it made no difference.
ottowrkr - is there someplace above the dealer level I can escalate this problem to? It's been going on since the car was new.
By the way, I've mentioned to them what Ottowrkr said, and they found no problems (supposedly) with the sway bar links, tierod ends or the rack and pinion. What worries me is that they will magically find the problem in a few months, when my Warranty runs out (I'm at 32k miles). Good Luck.
Low beam:
Actual - 9006 (aka HB4)
Listed in owners manual - 9006XS (aka HB4A)
High beam:
Actual - 9005XS (aka HB3A)
Listed in owners manual - 9005 (aka HB3)
Fog light:
Actual - 9040
Listed in owners manual - H3
I believe the H3 is a carry over from the '99 which somebody stated that their '99 actually has H3's, do not know for sure.
http://users.erols.com/imausa/auto-upgrades/bulbguide1.htm
For the 300M, it doesn't even list the H3 fog lights.
The wear marks from the sway-bar hitting this
thing were quite pronounced, once you knew to look there. The dealer had to cut a piece of it away to cure the problem.
-Rick
I hope the problem is similar to what you found, otherwise I'll live with it till I sell the car.
Anyway, for you folks in the East SF Bay Area: on the recommendation of my mechanic I took the car to Jack Armas at J&C Body Shop in Concord, CA. The fender was creased so Jack got a new fender and then matched the paint perfectly. He did a fabulous job. My baby is all better now. Thanks, Jack!
Interior materials seem to be holding up well with the exception of the steering wheel. Used all purpose cleaner and clean rag, color and some material came off with the cloth. I've seen similar descriptions of this on the 300M page.
All for now.
State inspector for your annual safety inspection will estimate your remaining brake life; he's usually very correct in his estimate.
Just had my '99 LHS (built 4/98) annual inspection at 42.5K miles; guy says my front pads still have over 60% left; rear ones will probably never need to be replaced for the life of the auto.
If you do get brake work done, my experience with Chrysler ('93 Concorde and '94 LHS) indicate that it is not a good idea to have the rotors turned if someone suggests that approach. Get new ones and pads also if you want things to work without vibration and go to someone who knows brakes.
And make sure that the removed wheels are properly torqued at no more that 100 ft/lbs when put back on. That appears to be what warps rotors on these cars.
Miles