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Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Volkswagen Passat

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Comments

  • lyons8lyons8 Member Posts: 1
    I had a 1996 honda accord coupe that was just a piece of junk!! This car was at the dealer more than it was out on the road. I also experienced the cold start problem, along with many other problems - I did buy the car new. LEMON! I wouldn't even consider buying another Honda again. I bought a 1999 Toyota Camry Le and I just adore the car!!! Toyota really knows what there doing when building a quality car. Toyota has earned a new loyal customer.
  • hammerghammerg Member Posts: 13
    I've had 4 Honda's now and I will continue to buy them. I only had one chonic problem. It was in my '88 Accord. Replace the rotor and the problem vanished. These cars go and go and go and not one of them has EVER left me stranded ANYWHERE.

    I agree w/ hondabro, although a subjective opinion, the Accord is by FAR the best looking sedan in the group. The Camry's are plain dull, and the new Maxima looks odd. Both are very competant cars, but overall I'll take the Honda. The Volvo's are nice, they have the silkiest 5-speeds (check one out, they are a joy to shift), but very expensive and very expensive to service. Frankly, I think people buy them for status of ownership. Just a waste of coin, imo.
  • cappajcappaj Member Posts: 1
    I own both an 87 Maxima with 130k and 88 Accord LX with 285k miles, both sedans and purchased new.

    Here's my hundred percent honest evaluation of both cars so far.

    The Maxima blows away any other car I owned before it for reliability. Over the last almost forty years I've owned four used Mustangs, a used Mercury, five GM cars, one a new Firebird, another a new Sunbird, a used Toyota Corolla, a brand new Mazda RX4 rotary, a couple Corvairs, an MGB and a Neopolitan Nash.

    This is not to say the Maxima has been totally reliable however. Compared to the Honda, it cost me a few thousand dollars more to start, and has nickle and dimed me for a few thousand more. The engine, still all original, is smooth as silk but blows a little smoke. I'd be surprised if it lasted another hundred thousand without some major engine trouble. The brakes, power steering, exhaust, and some electrical problems have been the biggest problems. Overall, after being spoiled by the Honda, I can say I'd never buy another Maxima again, nor could I recommend it to anyone else. In summary, I'd say a Maxima, in my experience anyway, is more reliable by a substantial margin than most of the other cars I mentioned, but offers far less reliability at a higher cost than the Accord. The only other comparibly priced cars I would put in the same reliability/price league as the Accord would be an Integra or Toyota Camry. Although I love the looks of the new VW's and I beleive the stuff I read in Consumer Reports, I know they are not even close in terms of reliability and bang for the buck.

    What can I say about the Accord? I was told when I bought it (always by people who owned another type car) I'd have trouble with the auto transmission. Heard alot of horror stories. I remember when it was new it seemed to shift a little sooner than normal; after one visit to the dealer it was never a problem again. I've changed the fluid once! It is completely original after 285,000 miles. The other day I drove up a five mile long 40 degree incline hill - it downshifted perfectly and the car, although I took it easy at 40 mph, handled it without a problem. I weight over 300 pounds and had a couple passengers in the car.

    The engine is completely original, including the carb. I've changed the alternator, water pump and timing belts a few times each, all which I consider excellent. I've replaced the radiator because the tank had a pinhole leak. I've replaced the exhaust sytem once, and shocks once. About the only thing I've gone through lots of are brakes, which I change myself at a cost of less than fifty dollars for pads.

    The airconditioner is original and works like new.

    The rest of the car is original, including the engine. The body is showing very small rust spots but still looks great after a car wash.

    In case you are saying, this guy must change the oil every ten miles, the truth is I change it at Instant Oil change at around 5000 but have gone as far as 10000 between changes.

    I drove the car hard. I'm six feet tall and have weighed between 250-340 lbs over the last ten years and often use it for the family of four. For the first four years I owned it I drove it loaded with ten to fifteen pails at 40-50 pounds each to deliver printing ink seventy miles away. I started the car ten to fifteen times a day during that period, Monday through Friday, using it as a sales car, and around 30% of the mileage is in the city and it has the original starter in it! By the way, the city is Buffalo NY and the roads are salted in the winters.

    I'm open minded and would consider buying any car recommended by Consumer Reports for reliability and that has a good crash result test, but the fact is I love my Honda and will stick with them, especially if they continue to build them in Ohio as mine was.

    I am not a Honda commercial. This is the real deal. The fact is I wish I could be saying this about an American car but I can't. I've just read a bunch of horror stories in these threads visiting sites from other manufacturers and to those people who have had problems, just as you want to tell everyone you know when you hate not being treated right and are having problems with your cars, wouldn't you also want to share your good forune with others? I am sure there are many people who have had great luck with other cars, including American, and have heard of people with hundreds of thousands of miles on their cars as well but the fact is, I've never really seen it except once, with my Accord.

    My intent is to tell the truth to those seeking advice on their next new car purchase - after all, fifteen to twenty thousand dollars is alot of money to gamble with. I suggest you read alot of comments like this along with magazines who base their reliability ratings on customer surveys like Consumer Reports and then go out and buy(stay away from cars with lots of black circles in the charts).

    One final thing - my Honda seats are like the rest of the car - plain and functional. They are a little stiff and small but I can tell you from experience they must be designed that way because I've driven eight hours a day for a four year period and was always very comfortable in my car. The driver who has had trouble may be shorter than average and have a legitimate problem that I wouldn't be able to recognize. All I can say is since I bought my Accord, my parents, two brothers and a sister in law have purchased Accords, a Civic and a cousin, a plastic surgeon, has purchsed two CRV's and none of them have every had a problem as far as I know. My mom is five feet tall and loves her 91 Accord.

    I'm giving my Accord to one of my kids who goes off to college next year - it appears to have another 100 thousand left in it - and I am looking at a Prelude. And don't laugh -although I am a big guy, every Honda I've ever sat in has more leg room, room side to side, and above my head than I'll ever need.
  • deandebdeandeb Member Posts: 1
    Too much written on this topic about V6's. Comparison is supposed to be between the 4 cylinder models. After 2 months of shopping, I chose the Accord EX-L. Here are my reasons:

    The Passat has by far the best handling and has some nice interior features (ignore the cup holders), but it has the least interior room and a turbocharged engine that may affect long term repair expenses. More important, it requires premium gasoline. (Have you checked the pumps lately?...more than a $0.20 difference)

    The Camry has the smoothest, quietest ride, slightly better ergonomics than the others, and should be rock solid reliable; but it has the worst handling of the 3, only a single map light up front, and flimsy rear cup holders. More important, I didn't like its styling and with a sunroof, it has less headroom than the Accord.

    The Accord for me was somewhat of a compromise. I like its styling the best and it has the most interior room of the 3, but its handling is only slightly better than the Camry. It should be reliable, but as my experience with my '89 Accord LX suggest, not stellar. (In 10 years and 107K miles went through 3 master cylinders, and had recurrent problems with warping of front discs.)

    I don't think any of the choices are bad. What I least like about these cars is the attitudes of the dealerships. There are alot of dealerships where I live. Although there were some exceptions, I was irritated by most of the Honda dealers. All of the VW dealers were pushy, but not annoyingly so. As a whole Toyota salespersons were more pleasant, but their dealer invoices did not match Edmunds. At least one dealer mentioned an "advertising fee" charged by the Toyota. In the end, your final decision might be determined by the dealerships in your area.
  • manjimenezmanjimenez Member Posts: 1
    The 2000 Accord adds side airbags as an option for some models, otherwise it is mostly unchanged. I have owned a 90 Integra since new and every time I think about trading it in I change my mind. The car has been extremely reliable, I have never even had to change a light bulb. I like the Accord styling but the front end is missing something. With a spoiler the back is decent. The Camry looks like an old Ford Tempo and you don't get many extras for the money. The new Maxima is a sport sedan so it is not even in the same league as the others. The Jetta is too small if you care about the poor people who have to ride in the back. The only engine to consider is the 6, the four runs out of grunt quickly, specially here in Colorado where the altitude robs hp from any non-turbo car.

    I will buy a new car this spring or summer (after all the snow is gone) and having driven almost everything out there (a hobby of mine) I will almost certainly buy an Accord EX with the five speed. I also like the Galant but they have un-reliable clutches and poor brakes. They also start falling apart quickly but if you only keep your cars for less than three years it is worth considering. The V6 can be had for almost the same price as an Accord EX 4.
  • howardhondahowardhonda Member Posts: 3
    I HAVE ORDERED A 2000 EX SEDAN LEATHER, 5-SPEED. I HAVE PREVIOUSLY BOUGHT TWO NEW ACCORDS, 1985 ACCORD LX AND 1994 ACCORD LX (BOTH 5-SPEEDS). HERE ARE MY COMMENTS. THE FOUR CYL. ENGINES ARE MORE THAN EFFICIENT FOR THE CAR. I ENJOY DRIVING 5-SPEED MANUAL SHIFT BECAUSE ITS SIMPLE AND SURE - I HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OF WHICH GEAR, ALL THE TIME. THE HONDA ACCORDS ARE THE BEST CARS I HAVE EVER OWNED. THE DEALERSHIPS HAVE GOOD QUALITY CONTROL SERVICE. AND I THINK THAT MAINTENANCE AND UPKEEP IS ECONOMICAL, BESIDES THE GREATEST GAS MILEAGE.

    MY ONLY DISSAPOINTMENT IS THAT I HAVE TO WAIT OVER TWO MONTHS FOR A LEATHER EX MANUAL SHIFT.

    GOOD THINGS ARE WORTH WAITING FOR!
  • harry_chawlaharry_chawla Member Posts: 10
    What deal did u get for ur 2000 EX 5- speed
    I intend to buy 2000 EX 4 cyl, Auto...with leather trim.

    WHat can be a good deal. I've offer of 21K with Auto trans and leather trim.
  • howardhondahowardhonda Member Posts: 3
    I have not finalized the bottom line yet. I know I'll get a good deal because I have been dealing with this dealership for nearly 15 years and I have bought two prior accords from them.

    If you have a deal of $21k for an 2000 EX 4 cyl auto, it sounds excellent. I believe the auto. costs about $800 more than the manual trans. I am hoping to pay dealer cost and let the dealer keep the 2% hold back.
  • jaikishen700jaikishen700 Member Posts: 1
    I was shopping for VW Passats. I wanted one in silver with the alloy wheels and the automatic. All the dealers I talked to were arrogant and said the silver colored cars were hard to come by and wanted 2000-3000$ above (invoice+destination).
    And the 1.8T engine doesn't give enough power.
    So, I went out and got myself an Accord Ex-V6 of the color of my choice for the same price as a 4 cyl Passat with no alloy/sunroof/color of choice/leather/climate control.
    I would say the Passat is way overpriced with little equipment and the arrogant dealers don't help matters either !
  • hiflyerhiflyer Member Posts: 79
    Sorry to hear about your experience. Customer relations is one thing that VW really needs to work on. The prices you were quoted on the Passat were way over the norm.

    However, its funny thing how you perceived it as being overpriced, when compared to the Accord Ex- V6. I thought the Passat was more comparable to the Volvo S70, which made it a relative bargain.
  • fitz10fitz10 Member Posts: 1
    I test drove a Passat GLS, 4 cyl w/tiptronic yesterday. I loved the way it handled on city streets but was disappointed when I took it on the freeway. The ride was VERY bumpy. I had a passenger in the back seat who said it was bad back there also. This is important to me as I do alot of highway driving. As for everything else, I loved it (except cupholders of course). The braking was tremendous. I liked the feel, very safe and solid.
    I also drove the Honda EX. Very boring compared to the Passat.
  • mikey23mikey23 Member Posts: 1
    Hey, I have recently been looking for an accord EX with V6 and was wondering what was the best price anyone had negotiated. In northern california, I have negotiated a deal at $800 over invoice and destination, and they'll throw in the mats for free. Does that sound pretty fair, or has anyone been able to do better on this car. (it would be in the color of my choice). TIA for the help
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    My comparison of the three cars with 4-cylinders (did that two years ago):
    Accord:
    Positive- Okay handling at low speeds, superb control at highway speeds. Excellent braking (panic). Best acceleration at any speed. The only car with two possible attitude. Drive it hard or drive it leisurely. It responds well to both. Perhaps one of the few cars that still makes me drive more than I'd normally do. Superb highway manners, best visibility, and comfortable seats. Standard list of equipment had minimum intrusion from dealer. Gas mileage, best: 32 mpg, normal city: 25-26 mpg, Texas summer (city): 23-24 mpg. Roomiest car of the three, and best ergonomics.
    Negative-More roadnoise on concrete roads than that in Camry, and not as soft riding as Camry. No audio system upgrade available (wish, atlest the Bose system from Acura CL was available as option).

    Passat:
    Positive- Best handling of the three, and nice standard features. Good low end torque. Good brakes. Good acceleration.
    Negative- Compact room, especially in the rear. Priced high with 1.8T which didn't impress me. High speed is felt lot more easily than that in Accord. 2-year bumper-to-bumper is the worst offering, although drivetrain warranty is very good.

    Camry:
    Positive- Once my favorite, has still got isolated cabin and a smooth drivetrain, decent brakes.
    Negative- Body roll, loss of control at high speeds, soft suspension forces the rear down with two adults in the backseat, and too much of isolation to really enjoy the car. And just about everything is optional (may be a good thing for some, not to me).

    While reliability has never been a problem for a Honda or Toyota, the VW offers the best drivetrain coverage. However, the best warranty is that is never used! Hopefully VW will get out of that stigma, and offer a better value and service on the Passat than they do currently. I drove home Accord EX (w/leather/auto for $21.2K). After 30,750 miles, it has not gotten any additional work, other than oil change and scheduled maintenance (7500 mile). Oh yes, just needed some lube on the moonroof to get rid of some creaking sound after six months. It is solid as new.
  • gman246gman246 Member Posts: 1
    I've visited 3 dealers. The best price I've been able to get on a 2000 Camry XLE V6 is $25,450. that's all-inclusive w/o taxes. includes the Value Package ($994), Glass Break Sensor ($62), Armrest ($40), and Traction control ($240). ideally i was hoping for $25,000. but considering 2 of the 3 dealers didn't want to go below 26, im guessing that the 25,450 is reasonable for an order-from-the-factory 2000 Camry. Is that an accurate assessment, or should I keep looking at other dealers?

    Thnx
  • shilly10shilly10 Member Posts: 3
    Bought a 99 Accord EX in July 99. Like everything about the car except for the ride. I drive app. 150 miles a day up and down the turnpike and it seems that the car transmits every bump into the cabin. Is the suspension set up like that? I occasionally drive my 95 Nissan sentra and ride is unbelievably smoother by far. The easiest way to explain it is that it feels like the car has solid rubber tires! I'm constantly getting bounced up and down. My experience is that the suspension should soak up most of the bumps. I've had the tires rotated and balanced, because I feel some vibration in the front end at speeds around 60 and up. I guess I should have the dealer check out the alignment and suspension. A quick question - Has anybody changed tires on their Accord? The Michelin MXV4's seem to be a mix between performance and touring tires. Maybe their a bit too hard. I was wondering if anybody had put some other brand of tire on their car which gave a softer ride. I understand that the handling might suffer a little, but most of my driving is just up and down the turnpike. Thanks for any responses!
  • harry_chawlaharry_chawla Member Posts: 10
    My dealer was trying to sell me the Vehicle Protection Plan(Etching of VIN # or Nehicle # on window glass), for easy recognition in the case of theft for $129. I live in Jersey City, having a very high theft rate.
    Does it makes sense to get my windows etched and how much should it cost... Can I get it etched from any particular kind of shop in the market???
  • harry_chawlaharry_chawla Member Posts: 10
    Dealer told me that 2000 Honda Accord Ex with Leather seats doesn't come with SIde air bags, whereas both Edmunds and Carpoint web sites say that it comes with side air bags.
    Can somebody throw some more light on this...
  • aseversasevers Member Posts: 1
    I'm confused too. Some info implies that you can even get side air bags if you get the LX with leather?
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    First thing, leather is not offered on the LX trim.

    Only the V6 Accords and I4 EX with leather have driver and passenger side air bags.... others do not.
  • jledwardsjledwards Member Posts: 1
    I have been looking for a Camry LE with the upgraded JBL radio only to be told they are not available. Has anyone purchased this option?
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    JBL radio is AVAILABLE for the 2000 Camry LE. It's a $218 (invoice) and $290 MSRP option. Both Edmunds and Kelly's Bluebook list it clear as crystal.

    The dealer is either B.S'ing, don't know what he is talking about, or trying to move you towards a more expensive model.

    Try another salesmen. Or try another dealership that will sell you one. Best of luck.
  • lakshrajlakshraj Member Posts: 1
    I plan on buying a car next week. I read
    all the discussion on the "best" mid-sized sedan
    and I feel very confused. I want a car that is
    "fun" to drive, has excellent brakes, great acceleration and high reliability. I am tempted
    to buy a Passat but I am afraid of regretting
    my decision if something goes wrong. Also it
    seems that it is more expensive (invoice 21K for
    4 cylinder) than a camry V6 or accord V6 9invoice
    20K). Also the premium fuel requirement and
    infamous high cost for German car repairs is
    holding me back. It also seems Volkswagon dealers
    are arrogant because of CR rating the passat as
    their top choice. So what should I do?. I
    do not want to spend more than 23K at the most.
    Please help with your suggestions and comments.
    a 91 accord and my heart wants to drive a different car.
  • anon13703anon13703 Member Posts: 1
    In response to your transmison problem I own a 96 Ex 4 which is a wonderful car. When you go around a corner and then step on gas the down shift is abrupt. That is just Honda. I also own a Camry V6 and the auto trany is glass smooth.
  • juzefjuzef Member Posts: 37
    After months of shopping, analysis, test drives, and obtaining objective opinions as well as subjective ones..I've decided on a car.
    My criteria was that it must be a smart car. An
    intellegent choice. I wanted a V6 that would last
    as well as one I'd love to drive. I wanted
    something that was practical, useful and fun.
    It had to be pretty but not immature. I'm a 26
    year old single young man who is thinking of the future. My wild adventurous days are far from over, but I can't be as crazy as I was five years
    ago. After all, thrity is just around the corner,
    and I want this car to be with me when I get there.
    You've probably figured that it boiled down to
    two cars early in the decision making process. The Accord V6 EX and the Camry V6 LXE with the works. The Camry looks sweeter to me and it's
    true what they say about it's strong and smooth
    ride. The transmission is silk. It suits me perfect. I'm a professional, graduated from college three years ago and I've had my wild taste
    of life. It's time to mix in responsibility and
    security with the game of life as well as keep it
    fun. I chose the Camry..I purchace it in a few days. Although the price is $2,000 more than the
    Accord EX, I figured, it's worth the free conscience. Can't wait to pick this car up.
    2000 Camry XLE V6/auto/sedan with the HZ package
    in cashmere beige, mud gaurds, and alloy wheel locks. All for $25,600.

    Hope you folks are as satisfied with your decisions..I think I am.

    Joseph
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    gee, I didn't know buying the Accord meant living on the "wild" side..... Accord is just as good as Camry, even better, in most categories.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    juzef:

    Great job. Saw many of your posts through out the whole buying process. And you have found the car that you are most happy with, and THAT is an intelligent choice. Wow, an XLE-V6, that almost carry some luxury status. It's arguably the classest car in the midsize catagory. Enjoy your car. :)

    hondabro99:

    People should buy what they like. And seems like More people like Camry than Accord by sales figure. Again, this year (1999), so far up to October, more people has choose the Camry than the Accord, even more than last two years. Honda Accord is an excellent car by all means, but Camry is no slouch either. Accord leads in sportier handling, and the Camry leads in riding comfort. I guess it's just that family car buyers are more partial about comfort than sporty feelings.

    And Accord being on the "wild" side, well there is some truth to that since the Accord has a higher death, injury and collision claim rate than the Camry. I guess it does sort of put it on the "wild"-er side of the Camry. :)
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    gee wenyue,

    Didn't we already go through this before? First of all, Accord is still #1 in RETAIL SALES, which does not include FLEET SALES, which are 3 or more sales to a single entity (such as rental car companies). It's why my brother who travel all around the country, can't find an Accord to rent, while Camrys are plentiful. Secondly, Honda hasn't offered any rebates or $0 drive-off leases that Toyota has bombarded the media with, the last couple of years.

    I thought it was proven that the current Accord was safer compared to current Camry. Camry w/ side air bag faired the same as the Accord w/o it. Since '00 Accords (EX, V6) have standard side air bags, it will be alot safer. You death rate data is about as outdated as disco. They are not current and therefore not indicitive of the current models, especially the Accord, since it went through a major redesign. Plus, Saturn had lower death rates, so I guess that means its safer than Camry.

    Btw, I saw the new Camry with the redesigned rear tail lights.... it was a big improvement over the previous one..... but still ugly compared to Accord's.
  • fxashunfxashun Member Posts: 747
    thank you HondaBro I could not have said it better
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Toyota lead the RETAIL sale period. That's that. Enough said. :) Oh, and don't forget, you are assuming that the Camry Solara also has fleet sale. I don't think so, at least not in any noticable numbers since it's selling so hot, why would any dealer sell these golden goose to fleet sale? That just means the retail sale difference is even larger. :)

    Yup, they did offer 750 rebate back then. No different than Honda's low interest rate now. What's the difference? Both are aimed to get more cars off the lot. Am I to say that Honda is also despirate?

    Camry Solara is not a camry? Where did you get that notion? It's external styling is a little different than the Camry sedan, but I see that the Accord coupe's styling is also little different than the Accord sedan. I suppose that means the Accord coupe is not an Accord?

    I don't care if you think the end is a turn off or not. The fact is it's flying off the lots as fast as Toyota could build them.

    The fact is Camry Solara is a Camry. Every automotive magazine and industrial expert stated so. I guess I should listen to you instead of all the people who knows the business inside and out.

    And as to why Toyota didn't build a coupe a while back? Don't ask me. You don't know, and I don't know. It's those corporate jockeys who decides. There are endless possibilites as to why they waited until 99 to put it out. But that doesn't change the fact that the the Camry sedan and coupe is number 1 in all sales catagories. :)

    Camry LE for $5K off the sticker? Where?! I want one. Our dealer here in Michigan, only several hundred miles away from the Geogetown Camry manufacturering plant, is only selling the Camry at $500 over invoice. :( Hey, I would like to get my hands on one of the $15k Camry LE, and many of my friends would too, after paying nearly $19K for them. $15K, hum, that's almost $4000 under invoice. It's impossible. You are making it up. If not, then give me that supposed dealerships number, I will call them up and get one for one of my friends who are looking for one. :) Thanks in advance.

    Truth is, over here, Toyota dealer are not despirate to sell the Camry at all. It's the number 1 selling car after all. Why would any dealer sell it for $4000 under invoice? It's a real money maker. And toyota dealer aren't worried, Camrys sell themselves.

    When did I say Camry has a better resale value? Hummmm... I guess you facbricated... erh.. concluded that one as well. Now let me put it in writing. Yes, the Accord does have a tiny resale lead over Camry. But the lead is hardly significant. 2%? That's what? $300! WOW, that's a lot of money for a $23,000 car. The truth is, both used Accords and Camry are hot sellers. Enough said. Such petty difference is not even worth noticing.

    Camry W/ sideair bags got 17 stars. Accord got 16 stars. Dealers order many if not most of the LE and XLE with side airbags. So side airbag is more of a standard than an option on the Camry. So I will go with the crash test with side airbag. And with side airbag, if you look at the actual data itself. Click on the test data page, and you will see that the tests for the Camry has a lower trauma rating than the Accord even when they have the same star rating. I conclude the Camry is safer. That's annalyzing data.

    Oh, and look at the death rate. The Accord has only a 3% higher collision rate. But a 14% higher injury and death rate. So what does that tell you? -- The Accord doesn't protect the people inside as well. That's also annalyzing data.

    Enough said.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Hondabro. I think we all know which camp we are in. There is no point in debating. We can say what ever you want, and that's not going to change anything about the real world situation. Besides, typing these endless debate is a waste of time. I just better things to do. The world will always go onto another day.

    I sincerely hope that Accord will prove itself to be safer than the camry. I really do. I am not one of those people who enjoy seeing people injured or dead. I hope all cars can be as safer, especially the family cars such as Camry and Accord. I hope the Accord can prove itself by showing a lower injury rate over time, and the added side airbag for the V6 Accord is a step in the right direction. Best of luck.
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    wenyue,

    It's a fact that "Camry" Solara isn't a Camry, according to an article I read, it was suppose to be a separate coupe model (i.e. Prelude). That is the reason why it looks nothing like the Camry, inside or out. Why didn't they just call it Camry coupe then? They added the "Camry" name to it for obvious reasons. I'm not making this up, it was an article in a car magazine, which I read while my car was being serviced. If they still have the magazine, I'll write down the page #, so you can goto your local library to look it up.

    On the other hand, Accord sedan and coupe are almost identical, except for the # of doors and the rear end. The interior dash and front grill and identical. The engines are also identical.

    It's a FACT that Camry coupe was dropped due to slow sales. Also read this in a magazine. Why would a car be axed if it's making profit? That makes ZERO economical sense. It's no different than the wagon being dropped. No appeal=no sale=no go.

    It's interesting that, previously, you claimed Solara WASN'T a Camry, and even claimed the total Camry sales DIDN'T include Solara sales. It's true that without the Solara, Camry would be lagging behind Accord in sales.

    The fact of the matter is, everything being equal, Accord BESTS Camry in the NHTSA crash test. Camry NEEDS an OPTIONAL side-air bags to surpass Accord ratings. Since most '00 Accords have STANDARD side-airs bags, it should SURPASS Camry in the crash tests. Anyways, most Camry's do NOT come equipped with side-air bags, at least not in LA, where "LE" is the most common cars.

    "And here is the big shocker. Accord has no more resale lead either. Not any more it aint. :)"

    Accord has HIGHER RESALE VALUE, get used to it. Not only are they PRICED LESS, you get MORE return on it when you resell it.

    Last weekend, Southbay Toyota (Long Beach, CA) and another dealer were selling the '00 Camry LE's for less than $16K. Since the ads have expired, I'll post this weekend when the ad's appear again.

    When did Honda offer low financing on Accords? The 3.9% is only for Civics ONLY. I know they offered 6.9% on USED Accords once, but not new. Maybe you're in fairy tales land. Btw, those "end of the year clearance" sales ads are nothing but a gimmick to get you into the show room. Notice how they never entice you with a rebate and low financing rates? Well, it's because they aren't offering any.

    I think if you had an open mind, you'd see that Accord bests Camry in value, resale value, refinement, styling, and safety. Too bad your bias wont let you be objective.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    I have had wasted too much time. As for that "resale" statement. It's a typo. It's "retale". That's why I listed the sales figure right under it to support my statement. Didn't catch it. Sorry about that.

    Safety? Camry is safer by 14% demonstrated everday. I doubte that the Accords add side airbag can fully make up for it. And the Accord DX, hot selling LX, and the new SE trims don't have side-airbags. I guess the number of Accords sold with side airbags will be rought the same number as the Carmy with that options installed.

    Camry so far has been safer for last 9 years straight. We shall see if the Accord can make up for that 14% injury and death rate this year. :)

    I won't bother to post again. It's pointless to debate with you. I have better things to do. C-ya.
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    wenyue,

    Accord is hardly a death-trap, as you make it out to be. It probably hasn't been as safe as Camry prior to '98 models, but it's a fact that current Accord has better crash test rating than the Camry. We'll see how well both do in the future.

    Btw, real world death rates can be very misleading..... as I've pointed out before, sports cars like Mustang has higher death rates than small sub-compacts like the Metro. Mustang has much better crash test protection and rating but is poor in real world, probably due to lot of lead-foot teenagers who drive them. Plus, Caravan has high death rates, but alot of them had to do with the faulty rear latch which threw children out the rear gate to their deaths. Like I said, unless cause of death is identified, death rates are misleading.
  • j973j973 Member Posts: 1
    I am looking 2000 EX soon. The dealer have
    call me and offer my $20,935, but I have not
    bargin with them yes. The car is full load it
    except the leather pacakage. What is the
    fair price should I pay for it.
    thank you.
  • lenwilliamlenwilliam Member Posts: 1
    What is the straight talk about he 2000 Honda EX V6? It realy seems to be a comfortable ride and has many good options.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    That data include the 1998 Accord model. It's been updated. It still fared worse.

    I agree that Accord is not the death trap it is. It really is not. It's injury rate is about average. And that's not bad. But Camry is just 14% lower in injury. No, I never said that the Accord is unsafe.

    I wouldn't compare a metro and a mustang in injury rate when you are comparing 2 comparable cars such as the Accord and Camry. One is orange and apple (mustang vs metro) and the other is apple vs. apple (Camry vs. Accord). In this case the two cars are almost identical and used for same purpose. Perfect for comparision between death and injury rates.

    Anyway, this is my last post. I just got myself a brand new computer. NEC brand, 500 MHz AMD-Athlon processor, it's fast as lighting, just waiting for me put few hours behind it. Almost as much fun as a new car. ;) Best wishes to Accord owners. Accords are good cars, and you can be proud. So can the #1 selling Camry owners out there. :) See ya, and off to have some fun.
  • fstar88fstar88 Member Posts: 5
    Hi, folks,

    The local dealer just called me to offer 99 accord Ex auto with 19150, is it a good price? I have to decide quick. Thanks.
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    fstar, if it's new, go for it. It's a great price.
  • fstar88fstar88 Member Posts: 5
    hondabro99,

    Yeah, it is a new one, no trade in. I think I will go for it. Thanks.

    BTW, how many people here get the extended warranty? I know Accord is a very reliable car, so I am leaning to not buying it.
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    fstar,

    Personally, I think a extended warrany is a waste of money. I did buy one for my '98 Accord, but cancelled it a few days later. I'm glad, because I ended up selling my Accord only after a year. I probably wouldn't have gotten much for it in resale value, just like LoJack, which is non transferable, therefore, it was money down the drain.

    If your car proves unreliable, very unlikely, during the first three years, you can purchase the extended warranty then, with www.warrantygold.com, for example. Or you can open a savings account and keep it as a "rainy" day fund for unexpected repairs. You'll probably never need it.
  • garyligaryli Member Posts: 2
    Harry,

    I am also looking for 2000 Accord EX and $100 over invoice is an excellent deal. Which car
    dealer in Nj did you get it from?
  • harry_chawlaharry_chawla Member Posts: 10
    There's a Saying...
    If ur happy with a dealer, u'll tell it to 3 people.
    If u UNHAPPY with a dealer, u'll tell it to 10 people.
    Let me put it straight,
    THE DEALERS AND SALESMEN CHEATING ON ME AND WAISTING MY TIME WERE
    BOB CIASULLI HONDA, Jersey City NJ
    salesman TONNY
    HONDA OF STATEN ISLAND, NY
    salesman SCOTT
    Scott was so rude as to call me on Sat and then tell me that the color is not available as they sold 15 EX that day by afternoon.
    Bothe salesmen were adding DOcumentation fee and blah..blah..
    GOOD POINT NOW
    Bay Ridge Honda SALESMAN IGOR SHIFF
    THIS IS A STRAIGHT AND GENTLEMAN GUY WITH NO GAMES.
    WIsing u all the best. You can refer my name to Igor.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Those are one of the kind ads. I bet you find the sticker number in small prints right under there. This is a old trick. One car that that price, and when you get there that car has "just been sold". Or it's a demo, or was damaged on the lot.

    2000 Camry LE's invoice is $18,216. There IS NO rebates or low rate financing going on right now. To sell the car at $2000 under invoice makes no sense unless (1) there is something wrong with their head (2) it's either another "one of its kind" old trick, a demo, a damaged goods, or (3) they are liquidating their whole lot and going out of business. I think choice 2 is most likely.

    In fact, if you check the dealer's web site, they refuse to list the price for any of their cars. Humm... I wonder why? Because posting the real price would foil their "one of it's kind" ad? It's quite obvious.

    here, check out the real camry price. www.toyotadealer.com/annarbor/
    You will see that they don't sell the Camry too cheaply. :) If fact, if you go to toyota.com, and pull up the dealer locator. And go to any toyota dealers, you wil find that Camry's don't go cheaply. If rest of the world are not selling the best seller, than it could only mean that single dealership you saw was playing a jedi mind trick.

    Oh, as for the 98 used camry. The car's value is largely based on the number of miles. You put 80,000 miles on that 98 camry, of course that camry is going for $12,976. Same thing would happen, if you put that many miles on an Accord.

    The truth is Camry's resale is extremely close to that of the Accord. 2% in difference ($300 differenc). If you really want to know what used Camry are going for, check out www.carpoint.com. And their used car ads section. Dealers are listing 2 years old 98 Camry LE with 33,000 miles for at least $15.5K ($3K under new car invoice), never mind $13K. It would be even more ridiculous to assume that they would sell a brand new 2000 LE for $16,276 ($700 more than the a 2 year old Camry with 33,000 miles on them).

    So as you can see from the above link, I doubt the resales is being hurt by one wacky dealer selling "one of it's kind" car.
  • hondabro99hondabro99 Member Posts: 24
    wenyue,

    I knew you were gonna say that. Actually, there's 8 VIN's listed for that price $16,200. So it's not "one only". Maybe before I bought my Honda CR-V, I would've agreed that those ad's were a scam, but my CR-V was an advertised vehicle also. Not "one only" but rather "two at this price". I bought is at approx. $700 under invoice.

    Also, that '98 Camry at $12K can not have 80K miles as you suggested. It's a CERTIFIED VEHICLE. Toyota will NOT certify a used car with that kind of a mileage. Plus, it's a 3 years old vehicle, who da hell puts 27K miles a year on a car????? You can speculate all you want, but all you have to do is call that 800 toll-free number and your doubts will be removed. Dial it!
  • fstar88fstar88 Member Posts: 5
    Wenyue and hondabro99,

    I am living in the east coast, here the camry price is not as cheap as west coast. Somehow in LA area, the camry is really cheap. I have two friends who bought the Camry LEs for just over 16,000 this year. I hope I live there.:)

    But the Honda Accord price is not that different, another friend got one LX 5 sp for over 16,000.

    They are both good cars. I like the look of Honda and ride, and the dealer is pretty good, so I got the Accord EX. I am picking it up this Sunday. Except they want $99 for the floor mat, I reject it and got from the online for $65.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    I called them. Guess what. It's a one time promotional deal. They admit that they are selling below invoice on a hot selling car as a bait to grab customers. They have 6 of them. Same goes for you CR-V (why would a Honda dealer sell a hot selling car at $700 below invoice? Are they despirate? The answer is "no".)

    This remindes me of when carsdirect.com and carorder.com was selling the 99 Acura TL and Honda Odyssey at $500 below invoice and at invoice, when everyone else is selling at MSRP or more.

    I fully understand promotional strategies. It's a valid tactic to gain customer base. So Southbay happen to use Camry. Carorder.com use TL and Odyssey. And your Honda dealership happened to use CR-V. The theme is to sell a hot seller at an incredibily low price to gain customers, lose money in the short term to make bigger profit for the long term.

    These tactics are few and far in between (for obvious reasons) to have any impact on the market.

    With that said, I think everyone living in LA area should jump on that deal before the few remaining camry LE on that one time promotional price get sold. :)

    Oh, as for that used 98 Camry. Even the used car salesman I talked to haven't heard of it. If it's a toyota certified Car, it will show up at www.Toyota.com under the certified car section. (toyota keep track of all car they certified), and they do not show a 98 Camry LE with the price you descirbed. The cheapest Certified Camry that Toyota corp has shown for a 1998 Camry LE is $15,000. And Toyota Certified vehicles can have up to 65,000 miles on it. Read it on Toyota.com.

    I bet that used car is either anothe Promoitional deal, or or a recently certified camry with close to 65,000 miles on it (That would still be too cheap. A 98 Camry LE with 65,000 miles on it will still have a market price of $14,000).

    I guess that dealership is in some sort of feeding frenzy, trying to grab customers like crazy. Maybe they are trying to kill some near buy up start competitor, maybe it's one of their grand strategies. Who knows. But hey, if those prices are for real, grab them while you can. The rest of us who are not in that part of LA this exact time will just have to live with the regular $19K price of the Camry and it's high resale price.

    Good job grabbing a deal on your CR-V deal while it lasted. I sure some lucky guy is grabbing that Camry deal while it last as well. :)
  • akin1akin1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 98 Honda. I don't like the way it drives. Its all over the road like a go-kart. I replaced the front tires drives a little better. Other then it driving like a go-kart, it has given me no other problems
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Is there some special Camry promotion in the LA area that's not in the rest of the country? What's with that? Or has the LA smog gotten into their heads? I have lived in Texas, Nebraska, Connecticut, and now Michigan, never seen any body sell a new camry LE even $500 under invoice (even those "one of its kind" ads didn't dare doing that).

    Too bad we don't live in L.A. Wait, what am I saying! :)

    Hey, congradualitions on getting that LX. I guess you like sportier rides over quiet and soft rides that I prefer. Anyway, Accord LX for $16,000! What a deal. But I can't believe the dealer didn't throw in the floor mats. What are they going to do with a pile of left over floor mats? Have fun driving.
  • fstar88fstar88 Member Posts: 5
    I think Camry in LA area is always cheap, not one time deal like you said. Since my friends there kept getting the Camry both last year and this year around that 16,000 price. Same is the San Diego, very cheap, they are near anyway.

    I live in Boston, the price is a different story. I bought an Accord EX Auto, for 19,150. The ride is fine, not that bad. Do not like the back of Camry at all. And the acceleration is faster for accord.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    maybe you are right. But it's one time deal with the dealer I talked to. During my conversation with the dealer, I said "That's $2000 below invoice." He said "yeah, we are losing money on this deal, but we will money further down the road. We have this deal so NO BODY can beat us right now, and we have 6 of them left." I guess they are selling the 6 at a loss right now to grab more customers down the road. It was kind of funny talking to the guy. He was trying to give me the sales pitch with a strong spanish accent that makes me want to laugh. I think his name was "holio" or something like that. :)

    Glad that you like the ride of the Accord. I guess it's subject to personal preference. Some people like it hard, some people like it soft. I have read people here who traded in their 98 Accord for a 2000 camry because they just couldn't stand the ride any more. I have heard some complaint of people finding camry's suspension too soft as well.

    I agree, the new face lift of the Camry made the front look better than the Accord, but the rear of the Camry is not as good as the Accord's rear.
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