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High Performance Luxury Sedans

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Comments

  • cb44cb44 Member Posts: 87
    Still debating....new E55 or used 996TT. Way different cars, but close is price.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Seems to me that E39 M50's are going for more than Blue Book values and CERTAINLY more than Edmunds TMVs. Anyone have a take on this... any info that is more definitive? Thanks.
  • jhdevoyjhdevoy Member Posts: 33
    Thanks for everyone's posts. Finally ordered a 2004 E55 AMG, Obsidian Black with charcoal/charcoal, Navigation, Ventilated, Phone (not with VCS), Xenon.

    They estimated 5-10 months. While I was there I saw someone picking up their Mocha Designo edition E55 AMG. It was the nicest car I have ever seen. It looked black in the garage but when it was taken out into the sun you could see the hints of deep chocolate at certain angles.

    I have time to change any options so I'd like some input. (1) Is the tire pressure monitoring system only if I plan to use runflats? (2) Does anyone have experience with the ventilated seats and are they worth the money? (3) Most importantly, I'd love to hear anyone's experience with the different colors, i.e. Black vs. Opal Black vs. Obsidian vs. Jade Black. Kind of hard to tell which was the best...
  • jhdevoyjhdevoy Member Posts: 33
    Test drove one yesterday. Beautiful car. The only thing that shocked me was the size of the sport seats. I'm 6'1'' 200 pounds, medium build (i.e., not a big [non-permissible content removed]) and I found the side buttresses of the lower part of the seats EXTREMELY confining. Otherwise, the interior was amazing. Perfect luxury. This model had the 20" wheel upgrade (for $4500) and I would certainly not recommend that. However, hard to argue that the XKR convertible (2003 model, haven't seen the new one) is not one of the most beautiful exterior designs in the auto world...
  • fennfenn Member Posts: 197
    Hmm, I am 6'3" and 215 lbs and I love the way that the my '04 XJR's seats fit me.

    Is it possible that you are just not used to a firm sport type seat with side/theigh bolsters? My XJR seats keep me "in the pocket" when I am driving my car hard.

    I agree that the 20" wheels are not necessary. In fact I think that they create an in increased ride harshness. They are also a very costly $$ add in price.
  • jhdevoyjhdevoy Member Posts: 33
    Not sure why it felt this way Don, each of my last two BMW's (330xi and M3) had sport seats with side/thigh bolsters and I loved them. Would only order sport seats. Oddlly, my brother-in-law who is 6'1" 240 said it felt fine!
  • goody4goody4 Member Posts: 55
    The tire pressure monitoring system will warn you of a significant and sudden decrease in a wheel's pressure, no matter which type of tire you have.

    Run-flats simply allow you to get to the nearest repair center.

    The system is worth it, with or without run-flat tires.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    I ordered my 2004 E55 with the ventilated seats and love them. While you definitely do not feel the draft, your seat will stay cool even after long rides (45 minutes or longer).

    Keeps me fresh and alert. I wish they put these seats on airplanes.
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    My dealership has a 2004 CL55 available. I haven't had that much fun driving in quite a while--lots of power and easy to drive.

    I am considering trading my 2003 911 TT on it. I rarely drive the Porshe, and I think that I would get a lot more use out of the CL. If an E55 were available, I would be even more tempted because of the price.
  • cb44cb44 Member Posts: 87
    Am intrigued by your posting which seemed to say the CL55 was more fun to drive than your '03 996 TT. Can you be more specific? (If you do decide to trade the turbo, email me first!)
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    Chuck,

    I really meant that the CL is easier for me to drive because it has an automatic transmission. The Porshe has a 6-speed. I am usually worried about stalling. The Porshe does seem to handle better, and has great road feel. I enjoyed the smooth ride of the CL. I will see what they offer me on the Porshe.
  • cb44cb44 Member Posts: 87
    Scott,

    I thought that might be what you meant, with the auto trans.

    If you do move towards the Benz, I would be interested in what they would give you for your Porsche, as well as the particulars of your TT.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Check out the just-posted Follow-Up Test: 2003 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG. You can access it via the Helpful Links box on the left side of the page.

    "The Bottom Line: Pure perfect power. A scary-fast sedan that begs to be driven hard at even the hint of an open road."

    What do you think?
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    They have offered me $100K for the TT. It costs $120--MSRP was $130. It is speed yellow with an aero turbo package. The CL55 isn't discounted at all. My car has 1,700 miles and is 10 months old.

    If the weather is good tomorrow, I will drive it to work. I don't know if I can give it up yet.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    I actually find the ride quite smooth, compared to other cars with similar performance.
  • fullmoon1fullmoon1 Member Posts: 1
    does anyone know if all M5s purchased in the states have 50 state emissions certification?
  • highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    sorry, just got back.

    you are right , I drove the S89R, with the twinturbo. Yes, Volvo let us drive it hard repeatedly on the slalom course.
    It did have significant body roll, though not bad overall. Power was adequate, slight turbo lag, but not in league of the E55. But one thing was the great seats....very comfy, but supportive at the same time......Had the traction control and AWD.

    I'm still leaning towards a E55.

    the green side of me is curious: what is the mpg of the E55 ? Not worried about the price of fillup, just trying to balance my fleet, since already have 2 gas lions.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I normally don't read a person's profile, but after you said "2 other gas lions" I got curious. What an interesting and broad selection of cars you have.....!

    M
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    I find the E55 having similar mileage comparible to the SL500.

    Your mileage may vary as the E55 is still quite new and I'm slowly running it in.
  • jrmmrjjrmmrj Member Posts: 5
    I got on the list for an E55 about a month ago, but after reading numerous road tests, and viewing road tests on the Speed Channel, I'm starting to wonder if the cornering, steering, and braking are a match for all that acceleration. I finally left the list, got my deposit back and decided to wait for the new M5. Anyone out there that can compare the handling and drivability of the E55, with the best that BMW has to offer? I know the AMG engine is great, but what about the rest of the package? I know that BMW has always had a reputation for building such great road handling cars, does this E55 match the BMW standard? I'd love to hear some comments. Randy
  • ksurgksurg Member Posts: 48
    I'm with you on that issue. Presently I'm on a list for a RS-6 which should be here in a few weeks. Lately I have considered getting an E55 instead. Unfortunately I can't wait for the M5 nor am I willing to pay $20K over MRSP. I've owned BMW's, Audi's and Porsche's but never a MB. It seems impossible to test drive the E55. I'm a bit old fashioned and would rather let a test drive sell me a car rather than a set of spec's or a car review.
    As for the next M5, I would be surprised if the it didn't out handle if not outperform the E55. You can't make generalizations but my impression is few if any E55 owners drive as aggressively as M5 or RS-6 owners. At least they seem a lot less likely to bring their cars to the track. Sorry I don't mean to offend anybody it just the demographics between M5 and E55 owners seem quite different.
    Lastly the reviews have been all over the board on handling and ride as usual. If you haven't read them yet comparisons can be found in "Car and Driver", "Road and Track", and most recently in "Sportcar".
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    W211 E55
    + acceleration
    + interior finishing
    + exterior looks
    + smooth luxurious adjustable ride
    + ergonomics
    + safety
    - rear seat room
    - lack of traction

    RS6
    + AWD traction means usable power
    + roomy rear seat
    + sharp handling
    + low profile
    - unsupportive front seats
    - very harsh ride
    - replacement model next year
    - dated interior
    - weak navigation
    - squeaks and rattles
    - high price
    - huge depreciation

    E60 M5
    + *should* handle very well
    + roomy rear seats
    - unattractive exterior design
    - unattractive interior design
    - poor ergonomics
    - one year away, at least
  • jrmmrjjrmmrj Member Posts: 5
    ksurg,...Is that what BMW does? Charge 20K over MSRP? The E55 is starting to handle better already. Or maybe M-B does the same thing? Maybe I should stick with more conventional cars like the 545i. Is this overcharge standard procedure? Please tell me how this works. Thanks, Randy
  • ksurgksurg Member Posts: 48
    jrmmrj,
    It was actually the BMW dealership that wanted upwards of $20K above MSRP for the new M5's when they arrive. The E55's can be had with haggling, a long wait, or luck for MSRP. I actually drove an E55 today. I already placed a lengthy post on RS6.com but in summary I was disappointed. Don't get me wrong it's a great car. It just is... well boring to drive. Luxurious... yes. Fast in a straight line on dry pavement... yes. It's not, however,a race car tamed for the streets and imo doesn't like to be tossed around like the M5 or RS-6. I guess I'm not sophisticated enough yet to appreciate a MB.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    There should be lots of dealers willing to commit on the next generation M5 at MSRP.

    I have my name down for one but I'm still debating whether the handling can outshine its unattractive interior/exterior design. My deal was at MSRP.

    The RS6 is a fine car although personally I will never get one as I'm particularly sensitive to squeaks and rattles. Every single A6 I have been in (I have driven half a dozen as loaner cars when we service our A4 Avant) always makes some kind of rubbing, squeaking noise over bumps, and I can't imagine what the RS6 will be like, with the stiffer suspension.
  • jrmmrjjrmmrj Member Posts: 5
    Thanks guys for your input. ksurg, what you are saying with regards to the MB just rings true with everything I have ever heard about them. They don't seem truly committed, as BMW is, to putting the real deal out there on the road. So I'm going to check out the new M5 with my auto broker. I've known him for 30 years, and he knows dealerships inside out. But if they insist on an overcharge, I'll just go with the more comnventional 545i 6 speed, Sport Package. That can't be too shabby, right?
  • shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    I drive a 2003 E55. This is my third E55 and my sixth AMG automobile. This is the finest all around vehicle I have ever owned.

    It sometimes does seem that the car is all about the engine, but that is because the engine is so amazing, it overwhelmes all other aspects of driving the vehicle. I feel that this is the most balanced AMG package out there. Handling, steering, braking, suspension all work well in harmony with the entire package.

    I can put the suspension and transmission in comfort mode and my wife falls asleep. I can turn off ESP and pretend I am 17 again. I can carry four people comfortably. I can keep ahead of anything on the road.

    Last week I was being annoyed by some guy in a TT (admittedly not much competition). I stepped on the gas for maybe 4-5 seconds. Once he disappeared in my rear view window, I glanced down to see that I was driving 140 mph. I really thought I was doing 90, officer. The car is just that capable, comfortable and competent.

    I had an SL55 a few months back. This car really is about the engine and nothing more. Not as comfortable or practical for sure, but also not as well rounded, not as balanced. I liked the E55 better than the SL55.

    Sure BMW used to make the best cars. But that was before AMG and that was before Chris Bangle.
  • ksurgksurg Member Posts: 48
    I put $1000 down today to be on the M5 waiting list. I spoke with the fleet manager and he agreed to sell it at MSRP( but I had to pull some strings and I still have to see what actually happens when the vehicle arrives ). I also received a call that my RS-6 should be here in the next week or two. Now I need to decide what to do. My wife will kill me if I get both!
    Shoes, speaking of wives mine falls asleep in my Porsche even at 130mph. Proves the point that comfort is more than isolation from the road. Most people equivocate the sensation of floating in a big leather sofa with a comfortable and sophisticated ride. There's nothing wrong with that but it's not to my taste. I once offended a Lexus owner who couldn't accept my viewpoint by telling him his car was like a coffen...the quietness and comfort couldn't be appreciated until you're dead. Obviously that's not true but everyone wants something different from their cars. It gets complicated when some reviewer decides he(she) knows what's best. I trust my own backside for the most part.
  • jrmmrjjrmmrj Member Posts: 5
    I enjoyed your review of the E55 on the Audi website. I also see that you're in Los Gatos. I live in the Santa Cruz mountains, not far from Scotts Valley. Do you mind if I ask which dealer you're working with? I'd like to get on the list also, and also run this by my auto broker. What do you think anyway, of auto brokers? I'm not sure they can help on a specialty car like this. Sounds like you've had more experience than I, in dealing with these kinds of situations.

    TIA, Randy
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    I agree with your comments about the E55. I also find the car much more fun than the SL.

    The 4 door format is certainly practical and I also enjoy the quieter cabin.

    Yes, those suspension tuning buttons do make a pretty big difference don't they!
  • ksurgksurg Member Posts: 48
    I got on the list at Stevens Creek. Generally, I find working with a fleet manager or internet sales person easier than the guys on the floor. As for brokers they can save you money but in my experience there's a lot of wheeling and dealing and in the end your local dealer is pissed off and you only saved $500 on a $50K plus vehicle( i.e. providing you've done your research). It can actually help to have a contact person at a dealership if a problem occurs. You shouldn't get preferential treatment from a dealership for buying the car there but you often do.
  • shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    Have any of you super sedan fans ever owned a car with a 12 cylinder engine? I read an article recently where the author stated that you owe it to yourself to own a 12 cylinder car at least once in your life.

    Any comments on this?
  • pathdocpathdoc Member Posts: 126
    I don't know how you can compare the two since if you love top down driving they aren't cross shopped. The CLK 500 might be a better comparison. I have both SL's and a S500 and 560 SEC and have owned many Mercedes including E classes. I have also driven the newer E's and it would never occurr to me to compare the two. Both are excellent but if you want a sporty convertible the E won't do.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    While I agree with you they're very different cars, I find it interesting to compare them as they're in the similar price range and both possess their own sense of sportiness.

    The SL500 while corners very well and looks very sporty, is not as agile to me as it lacks the power of the E55.

    For 99% of the general public, they would think the SL500 is a sports car while the E55 is a boring 4 door.

    Far from the truth.

    You're right, of course we cannot factor in the topless experience but we're speaking strictly from a performance standpoint.
  • chngrchngr Member Posts: 2
    I just joined the message board, and I find all your comments to be very insightful. I purchased a 2004 E55 3 weeks ago for MSRP. It's a wonderful car, but extremely unreliable. It has been sitting in the MB service bay for 2 weeks getting a replacement Command System and repaired Home Link System. Unfortunately, all these problems arose as I was getting the demo during the delivery of my car. Have any of you been experiencing the same problems?
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    Thinking of getting a cpo XJR in the next couple years. Any owners out there who have this car and can tell me what to look out for. I like the new E55 a lot too but based on the post above may have to steer clear of those.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    No issues with the COMAND DVD or Homelink.

    Are you sure the Homelink unit is defective and not your mistake in programming? Rolling codes can be tricky to program.

    What kind of COMAND difficulties are you experiencing?
  • bmizbmiz Member Posts: 4
    Has there been any information updates on the production schedule and availability for the E60 M5?
  • wynoochewynooche Member Posts: 3
    Took delivery in Late Nov....2004 with NAV
    Everything works well...NAV is NOT nearly as sophisticated as the Lexus Nav system...very tight car and unbelievable responsive...front seats are very firm...huge trunk but who buys an E55 for trunk space? Gas mileage is a little under 20 mpg
    No satellite radio yet but supposedly coming in early 04
    Hot car and very understated.
  • jrmmrjjrmmrj Member Posts: 5
    Amen bmiz, I've got an M5 ordered, but where can we find updates as to anything regarding this screamer?
  • chngrchngr Member Posts: 2
    The entire Command module had to be replaced (which took 10 days to get the part and installed). Apparently, the radio, CD, CD changer, phone, and navigation all operate through a singular fiber optic loop. If one device malfunctions, all devices stop working. MB could not pinpoint the problem, so they replaced the entire Command System (at least that is what they told me).

    Homelink was defective, buttons 2 and 3 held a code, but 1 would not.

    All is well so far... I'll keep my finger crossed.
  • design786design786 Member Posts: 14
    I just purchased a 2004 E55 and am surprised to find out that the first scheduled oil change is at 10000 miles. Is it safe to follow such a rigorous schedule? The thing that bothers me is that on my wife's 1999 E430, the dealer recommends changing the oil every 5000 miles and service every 10000 miles. Any recommendations?
  • wynoochewynooche Member Posts: 3
    I have a 2004 E55 and was told the same thing by my dealer....Mobil one synthetic oil goes much longer between oil changes than regular oil.
    Your dealer will call you for an unannounced service after about six weeks to do a "courtesy"
    check on all systems and to answer any questions about the vehicle.
    Enjoy your new ride.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    I am really happy that the new M5 is coming before the STS V. It will give GM a venue to prepare an appropriate response
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    They're going to have to come up with one hell of a car to come anywhere near the new M5.

    M
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2004 Survey is posted and ready for your input!
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Do you really believe Cadillac is going to release a sub-4 second sedan the size of a STS? Not gonna happen...

    "the current M5 can't light a candle anywhere near the CTS V..." - really?? You mean... kinda like a Corolla vs. a Corvette? A Corolla can't light a candle anywhere near a Corvette!

    You must not be a true car guy, as this statement is just not based in reality. Emotional perceptions can make us say unsupportable things.

    A close scrutiny of empirical performance numbers tells another story! Hardly enough difference to serve as round-off error. Of course, there is so much more to performance than 0-60.

    Cadillac is making a fine effort and they are to be applauded. Gonna take them a while to build the sort of reputation "earned" by the BMW M cars. Let's see how the "V" cars hold up before claiming them to be the 2nd Coming.

    Don't get me wrong, its about time an American Mfgr got serious on the world performance stage. Once Cadillac EARNS the reputation, they'll see me in their showroom.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Check out the major auto mags. Thinking it was in March 2004 issue of C&D that they tested E46 M3, E39 M5, and CTS-V. The V had axle hop issues and didn't meet the GM-projected accleration time. 0-60 mph took over 5 seconds.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    What? I'm sorry but I think you tend to get your wishful thinking mixed up with reality. Where has it ever been said that the M5 "can't hold a candle" to the CTS-V? What reviews on which planet have you been reading? Care to share which review said anything like that about the M5??? I'd like to read them.

    I do see where Car and Driver said that the M5 wasn't worth the price difference over the CTS-V, but no where did I see anything about the CTS-V beating the M5 to the point of it not being able to hold a candle to the CTS-V.

    Futhermore, as so many GM fans love to point out when one of their cars is in question, the M5 is no longer in production. The new M5 will be the car thatthe CTS-V won't be able to "hold a candle" too.

    So far what I've actually seen is that the CTS-V has not performed up to specs, and has also been beaten by the Jaguar S-Type R, of all cars(!)....and this verdict was handed down not by a foreign car loving magazine, it was given by Motor Trend...an American car on the cover every month, V8 this and Corvette that, said their pick was the S-Type R.

    A STS-V with those specs is pure fantasy, and will probably never be, so lets stick to reality-based posting.

    M
  • portknoxxaportknoxxa Member Posts: 69
    Hey guys. Just saw the pics of the E60 M5 here, i don't know how close these pics are to the real thing, but I think this car will silence all the critics who hate the Bangle design. I for one love the new 5, and the M5 will reclaim it's crown. If it ever lost it. Got the mag with M5,M3,CTS-V comparo. The only thing the caddy has going for it is that it's a whole lot cheaper. I'll take a E39 or E60 over anything else. If I could afford one, had to settle for a 2004 Mitsubishi Galant GTS.
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