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High Performance Luxury Sedans

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Comments

  • rentschlrentschl Member Posts: 69
    When you look for the M5 in Edmunds' new car listings, it's not there.

    What's the reason for this?

    Is it listed in some other, special location?

    Thanks,
    Eric
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    The e39 M5 is not currently in production (ended with MY2003). The e60 M5 (MY2005) is forthcoming. e39 M5's should be listed as used... I mean "Pre-Owned" cars ;-)
  • rentschlrentschl Member Posts: 69
    So then there was no M5 for 2004.

    Is that correct?

    Thanks,
    Eric
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    That is correct. It was discontinued in June of 2003.

    You can find a 2005 M5 Future Vehicle section at this link: http://www.edmunds.com/future/2005/bmw/m5/100286738/preview.html?- - tid=edmunds.f.mmindex.content.num5.0.bmw*
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    A colleague of mine with a 2002 M5 has seen the value of his vehicle go up over the past 6-8 months. Claims he could sell it for at about $3,000 more today than he could have in september of last year. He attributes this to the controversial design of the new 5 series and the fact that there is no 2004 M5 to buy new.

    A friend of his is not having the same good fortune with a 2002 E55 which he has been trying to sell for a month in advance of his 2004 E55 arriving. He's dropped his price from $55k to $46.5k and, as of yesterday, still no takers. By comparison, a local Porsche dealer offered $53k for the M5 outright, whether or not he bought a Porsche. He thinks $57.5k is possible in a private party sale.

    P.S. Both cars are mint with 35k+/- miles.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Member Posts: 491
    Just comes to show that the market for high end cars is tricky, ad anyone who buys one thinking of it as "investment" is running a risk due to unpredictable market changes. It basically just means that is your friend with an M5 is remotely interested in selling, he should take one of the great offers he's getting now. The new M5 will blow his older model away, controversial design or not, and people in the market for performance sedans want that - performance.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Not sure I agree with your assessment as it applies to the E39 M5 vs. E60 M5. I am sure the new model will offer impressive performance, but I for one would prefer the previous body style and cleaner interior to one based on the current 5 series with i-drive and funky interior aesthetics.

    And, as for "blow away" performance, at what point does this become a bit ridiculous, especially for a 5 passenger sedan. The 2002 M5 gets from 0-60 in under 5 seconds and has lateral grip that compares to my S2000. I'm not sure how much better the E60 M5 will be, but I'd be more inclined to keep a 2002 E39 M5 than trade up in performance and down in style. Subjective, for sure, but a lot of others appear to share this opinion.

    I do agree with your assessment as it would apply to the E55. As best I can tell, the new 2004 is a substantial improvement over the old in all categories. However, wonder how long it will be before it becomes usurped by an E65?
  • portknoxxaportknoxxa Member Posts: 69
    The E39 M5 set the standard for performance/luxury sedans and that's why it's a classic and the 2002 E55 is not. I agree with the both of you, but I think the E60 M5 will "somewhat blow away" the E39 M5 in performance based on that V10 500 hp and I'm sure the tourque has to be somewhere around 400. Not to mention the car is lighter, because of the extensive use of aluminum. I also agree that this engine placed in the E39 would have been an instant classic. Look what Dinan did to the E39 M5, giving it 470hp and 0-60 times of 4.1-4.4s. With no turbo or supercharger, but the conversion cost about $30,000. I "love" the E39 design and I "like" the E60 design. But you know how it is "my car is faster than yours". I also think the E60 545 and M5's pure perfromance level will negate the Banglization of BMW. I've never really thought of the last generation E55 as a special car, it always trailed the E39 M5 in every comparo and probably in every category, but still a great car. Lastly look at those E60 M5 pics and just look at the additions made to the body of the car, especially that front air dam, bulging tire wells, and those quad pipes out back. P.S. How come Audi is not producing the RS6 anymore, was just a one year thing.
  • e350v10e350v10 Member Posts: 92
    Anyone know what the M5 pricing will be?

    I was thinking it would be around $75-80K (E55,RS6).

    I'm #1 on a waiting list, but the dealer said the MSRP might be around $120K!
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    With $120K you could get yourself a CTS_V something else like a 540i. Two cars. Tommorow. It’s your decision
  • e350v10e350v10 Member Posts: 92
    That kind of money opens up all kinds of options (e.g. Turbo Porsche).

    If it is at that price, I think BMW will have a difficult time selling them.
  • e350v10e350v10 Member Posts: 92
    That kind of money opens up all kinds of options (e.g. Turbo Porsche). Or 540i + Range Rover!

    If it is at that price, I think BMW will have a difficult time selling them.

    But the 6 Series is $80K to start . . .
  • portknoxxaportknoxxa Member Posts: 69
    The 645i is about $70,000 but the other models coming later with smaller engines will be "cheaper". I think I read that the enrty 6 will be around $55,000 with a 6 cyl. The M6 will have to be around $85,000, still less than A CL500, CL600, CL55, and the M6 drop top about $95,000 They will have to keep the M5 near the E55 and RS6. E39 M5 MSRP was about $71,000 in it's last year, it's first year I think it was $69,500, so I would assume closer to $80,000. MSRP's for the other 5-series' have not gone up that much. $120K is definitely a dealer markup and they probably will get a some of us.
  • pathdocpathdoc Member Posts: 126
    I currently drive a XKR convertible and before that a XK8 convertible. Although I have only seen the pictures and intro articles on the 645i convertible I am very interested. If the price is in the mid 70's it will be very competitive and may spell trouble for Jag sales since performance and features shoud surpass or equal the Jag. for much less money. Has anyone seen/driven the convertible yet?
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    You could also look at the XLR and the SC for the heck of it. I think the XLR is a good first attempt worth consindering.

    image
    image
    image

    I have never owned a luxo vehicle but I sat in many being an auto nut. I was very impressed with the XLR
  • pathdocpathdoc Member Posts: 126
    It may seem strange but one of my considerations for a convertible is trunk space since I drive to and up the coast frequently. Every summer I do a 2-3 week road trip up Ca 1 from Orange county to Monterey for the Historics and then further into SF,Napa and parts North. I appreciate the amt. of space I now have with the top up or down. My driving up the coast is with the top down. When I looked at the SLR and SC 430 I noticed there is almost no room with the top down. With the SC430 you need the run flats for any space either way and I am concerned about not having a spare if you were 100's of miles from a Lexus dealer. I have also heard some complaints re ride with ride/handling with the run flats.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    I drove up the road with a Mustang convertible in 2001 and had a really good time.
    There was this little place we stoped where they make woodfire Salmon Pizza.
    I believe a lady from New Zealand was baking. I envy you. Coming from one of the most beautiful places on the planet (Kenya) I must say California and the US in general is a very beautiful country.
  • larscalarsca Member Posts: 60
    I just saw a brand spanking new M5 drive by on PCH in Laguna Beach, CA. I do mean the new V10 M5, not anything else. The car was silver, but the lower 3'rd of the car where the body molding would go was just painted black all around the car. This made the car look very much like a regular 5 series at first glance, then maybe you'd think it was in the middle of some paint job or body molding repairs. But then you notice the 2 double exhaust pipes protruding out from behind it, and you conect the dots.

    Anyway, I am damn sure this was the M5 concept that's been shown at car shows around the world (not THE car, but one like it of course). I can only assume this car had just come back from desert testing in Arizona or something, and now was heading to the BMW North America HQ which I believe is in Irvine?

    Unfortunately I didn't have a camera handy, nor was my car parked close enough for me to give chase. And I didn't hear the exhausts so I couldn't hear the V-10, if that's what it was.
  • wynoochewynooche Member Posts: 3
    Just had Sirius radio installed in 2004 E55......the sound is fantastic....display shows through command center....even stock prices etc. on CNBC
    The car comes prewired...antenna is on the trunk lid but looks ok.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I'm reading a similar article at Germancarfans. This new M5 is going to inhale this segment.

    The E55 will become the "E63" for 2007 most likely with a 600hp 6.3L V8. The next RS6 is supposed to have a 500+hp V10 from the Lambo Gallardo. What next?

    M
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I was very pleased to read that the new M5 V10 is only 5.0 liters and will have a redline of 8,250 rpm. That should give it supurb responsiveness and greatly enhance the fun to drive factor over the massive torque, low rpm competition.

    However, I was equally dissapointed to read that, perhaps, a manual transmission will be dropped in favor of a 7-speed SMG unit. If true, that just about wipes my interest out. Please, no technical analysis as to why an SMG will produce better performance than this old man's ability to shift. No matter how much slower I am at shifting than BMW's computers, I want to DRIVE my sports sedan, not play some virtual reality game boy version with my thumbs. Period.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    habitat1... Amen, brother. Is a truly sad day when an M doesn't come standard with a real manual transmission. If you can't work the clutch, it is more an AT than an MT.

    Unfortunately, SMGs and their ilk appear to be here to stay. Ferrari is projecting that their SMG system will be ordered in over 90 of some of their models. A Ferrari without a true manual is sacrilege. [Even the F1 manufacturers and drivers fought the recent rule change proposal to go back to true manual transmissions. Sad.]
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    "Please, no technical analysis as to why an SMG will produce better performance than this old man's ability to shift.

    In other words you don't give a darn, I enjoyed reading that.

    M
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The M5 SMG is supposed to have 11 shift options? Wow. Even a lowly Steptronic is fun to play with. I could spend some time having a go with that thing.

    But I don't think manual trannies are going away just yet or ever. Too many of today's kids are weaned on them and they are often the "low" option budget for many real-world cars.

    What with a NEW TECHED-UP 10-CYLINDER ENGINE and NEW TECHED-UP TRANSMISSION, this car is going to be well over $100K. $120 sounds right. It's a freak car, sedan on steroids. It’s the rich kid in school who just has to have it all.

    E39 M5s never looked so good now. This car will have staying power for quite some time and for many reasons.

    Curious how the mere-mortal 5s and 3's will still offer 3 pedals. Also, when Porsche drops the manual transmission, then it's time to worry.

    To all of you stick elite, get yourselves a real sports car and back it up with a low-priced, practical sedan for utility. Sport sedans just don't measure up when it comes to pure driving pleasure and all out fun. The sports car is the real prize for the sport driving enthusiast. And there's lots of stick out there that isn't going away… just yet.

    MR2
    Miata
    S2000
    Boxster
    911
    Vette
    Viper
    NSX
    SLK
    Elise

    The pickins are good. They all look better too. A Bangle-shrouded M5 with a super duper flakomatic automatic transmission? No thanks. I don't care if it could fly to the moon.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    We will soon decide, by June 05, we will know

    image

    image

    Hopefully Cadillac has learnt from CTS V wheel hop
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    What are the project hp numbers for the STS and XLR V models? I'm reading 420hp, that won't cut it with the E55, M5 and next RS6.

    M
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    0-60 # do count though, If cadillac can use good ratios to cut the gap in 0-60, with 420 horses, they are in the game, if they tweak the right things, but Yes, with V10 500 HP monsters, they are perhaps outgunned, people do like having healthy stables with lots of horses.

    If they made the Northstar a 6.0 up from the 4.6 it is now for V applications, or drop in the V12 they are building for the escalade V, they might have a chance. Alternatively, they can chop off two cylinders from the V12 to a V10, but with their current CTS,SRX,STS Sigma platform, I doubt there is enough space in the Engine bay for a V10.

    So for now, the M5 rules the Horses party
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    We'll see because I doubt any of that will happen. This new M5 is going to inhale this segment I predict. The only problems will be idrive and styling, for some folk.

    M
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    ...an SMG only transmission. This is one prospective buyer an 12-24 months who may be left on the sidelines if they don't offer a 6-speed manual as an alternative. For BMW to put all their engineering effort into developing a 8,250 rpm lightweight V10 and then mate it only to an SMG without offering a true manual transmission is more offensive to me that both i-Drive and Bangled styling combined. As a matter of fact, the exterior styling is growing on me.

    If I wanted a fast shifting automatic to maximize drag racing performance, I can get a current AMG E55 with 516 ft lbs to go along with close to 500 horsepower. I seriously doubt the M5 will better the E55 in 0-60, 0-100, 0-150, 1/4 mile or any other measure any idiot with a heavy right foot (and $80,000) can achieve. However, if I want to "drive" the "ultimiate DRIVING machine", then for god's sake, let me do it, BMW! The M5 only has nominal more torque than a 545i 6-speed (another 15% +/-, I believe for around 370 ft lbs). If ever a sport sedan called for a 6-speed, it's one that has high horsepower, low torque and an 8,250 rpm redline. And that's been BMW's Motorsports past forte in the face of AMG's alternative to increase torque to supersonic levels.

    For me, the new M5 could have been a spectacularly fun car to drive with a true 6-speed. Now I might need to buy another Honda S2000, as long as they don't do something stupid like swap it's 6-speed for a thumb controlled SMG.

    Stupid move BMW. There are still some of us that have a left foot and want to "drive" your cars, you know. The previous M5 did just fine with ONLY offering a true 6-speed, as evidenced by considerably higher resale value than the automatic only E55. You are snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory with respect to this prospective buyer.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    As some may find the 545i/6 more fun to drive than the M5!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Reading that - I'm speechless. I see your point completely. Have they officially said there will be no true manual this time around? I would think they'd make the SMG an option, but it doesn't look that way huh?

    W210,

    Do you still have your E55? If so how has the experience been?

    M
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    Perhaps Cadillac should step in and offer U a manual on the STS V Mr. Merc1. that would keep your left foot busy
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,464
    I am also not sure I am ready to take my left foot out of the driving experience, but I am keeping my mind open. Despite taking that foot out of action, the SMG is not an automatic. Mainly, it doesn't have a torque converter to muffle your right foot's ability to control the car's balance. In fact, the only difference your right foot should be aware of is that it doesn't have to lift in order to shift. Thus, the SMG should give all of the control of a full manual.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well you have to remember I'm a Mercedes fan so a manual isn't a big deal to me, but I surely understand those who feel they must have one.

    I doubt if Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi or Jaguar will ever offer a true manual in their mid-level performance cars like the STS-V, E55, RS6 or S-Type R. I just don't see it, and they probably wouldn't sell here anyway. BMW on the other hand wears performance like a badge and their customers have been groomed to accept and now crave manuals.

    bhill2,

    Well most of that is true, but you still don't have the lever and the computer still decides and executes the "shift" for the most part.

    M
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    Yes, I still have the 2004 E55. Really enjoying the car . When I'm late rushing to an appointment, I cannot think of another vehicle I rather take. The effortless power in such a comfortable package is truly hard to beat.

    The performance is nice of course, but I find myself also appreciating the various luxurious gadgets in the vehicle.

    Things like ventilated dynamic seats, very useful telematics, navigation, upgraded stereo, and even the auto trunk closer. I hardwired an iPod to the auxiliary input to supply myself with a large music collection. The best part about the car is that you can drive it at 30% yet you still enjoy yourself very much.

    After taking a 545i for an overnight test drive, I no longer take the upscale interior of an expensive sedan for granted. To me, the E-class AMG interior is really a step above the competition, much nicer than the 5 and the new A6, yet not tacky like the Lexus (with all the red or yellow shiny wood.)

    And don't get me started about ergonomics. While I can really get my work done in the E55 as an mobile office, the same cannot be said of the iDrive in the new 5.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Thanks for the update. Have their been any problems with it?

    M
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    1. audio gateway occasional static & DVD acting up, requiring software update.
    2. very faint squeak over bumps, dealer traced back to sunroof clip, replaced.
    3. center front speaker buzzing when playing certain cello pieces, replaced.
    4. aux port was not active (dealer forgot to turn it on during PDI).
    5. auto trunk closer (truly great option) button occasionally not working, fixed.

    The bottom line is, yes there were minor problems but they fixed them all.
  • portknoxxaportknoxxa Member Posts: 69
    Couple of questions about the E60 M5. Somewhat suprising is the torque 383lb feet, i was thinking maybe over 400. As far as torque goes how much does the engine displacement affect the amount of torque. Also no true 6 speed manual, find it hard to believe for a car that prides itself on race car inspired performance will not offer a true manny. And what about the ability to use "only" 400hp and at the push of a button have access to all 507? What a novelty. 0-60 in 4.7s seems like a reserved number. Can't wait for the RS6, E55, M5 comparo.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah that is a very conservative estimate. I'm looking for a 4.0 sec 0-60 time or even lower if the SMG has a "launch" mode specifically for such things.

    I can't wait to see the comparos either and that all important first drive/roadtest from the U.S. mags.

    w210,

    A bunch of relatively minor things with your E55 huh. That is Mercedes biggest problem because I'm sure if you get a survey it won't be good for Mercedes.

    M
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    0-60 times are, IMO nearly meaningless numbers to measure the performace of the M5, E55 or even sports cars, IMO. None of these vehicles could match one of my childhood friend's restored 1970's Buick SS that, for about $20k was capable of 0-60 in under 3 seconds and the 1/4 mile in under 11. "Numbers" that a 2004 $650k Ferrari Enzo can't match. But, at the end of 1/4 mile, you had pretty much extracted all the Buick was good for. And around corners, it had the handling characteristics of our Isuzu Trooper.

    The current E55 and future M5 are able to compete with the 911 Turbo in stoplight drag racing, and both are capable of sustaining speeds of 100+ mph over any legal limit in the United States. Personally, I think further escalation of the power war is not productive. I'd like to see the handling and "fun to drive" side of the equation further improved. I recently had the opportunity to drive the 545i 6-speed sport and, although it is very good by sedan standards, it did not match the handling and steering precision of my former $32k Honda S2000. Nor did the BMW 6-speed transmission shift as precisely and effortlessly as the little Honda's. I realize that this is a tall order for a 4,000 lb 5 passenger sedan. But I'd rather see some effort on the part of BMW's Motorsports and Mercedes AMG engineers redirected to that objective, rather than seeing who will be the first to break the 600, 700 and 800 hp barriers. Hell a Honda Formula 1 car "only" has 700+/- horspeower. But it's capable of pulling 3g's vs the 0.65 to 1.05 g's representing the range of an Isuzu Trooper to an Enzo. And the E55 and M5 are only in the upper middle of that rather unimpressive range. I believe there is room for handling improvement that would make my daily 35-40 mph drive through D.C.'s Rock Creek Park more enjoyable. I'd prefer this improvement over having to go to the Bonneville Salt Flats just to see the difference between the last M5 and the next one.

    And, as I said before, the fact that the V10 M5 "only" has 380 ft-lbs of torque to go along with its 500+ horsepower is a potentially very good thing in my book. Made even better by the 8,250 rpm redline. But completely pissed away on me, if they only offer an SMG transmission. For the infititesimal increase in 0-60 performance the Game Boy inspired SMG might offer against my amateur old-fashioned hand and foot shifting, they have taken away 75%+ of the fun to drive factor for me. I would have never bought the former E55 against the former M5 for that very reason. Now I've got two lousy choices compared to the former M5 6-speed on the fun to drive front. And for what - to have me act like a stupid, immature high school kid at a stop light just to tell the difference between the old and new M5? I don't think so.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I agree with you on the manual trans issue, but I think you're asking too much of a 4000lb+ sedan to even come close to matching a Honda S2000 in handling. Likewise the Honda can't come close to matching those sedans in ride and comfort, every vehicle is a compromise. Even the S2000 was toned down for better daily use.

    Sure BMW and Mercedes could build a sedan to match a S2000 in handling if they truly wanted, but it would ride like it had no suspension at all and wouldn't appeal to anyone but dedicated track folk and lets face it most of the people that buy these cars still are luxury car buyers for the most part or at least expect some luxury (reasonable ride comfort) in these cars.

    M
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Sorry, I guess I should save my passion if I ever run for political office (or, better yet, the Board of Directors of BMW)!

    I agree that the "supersedans" are indeed sedans and, as such, they have a broader duty than a dedicated sports car. But I'll somewhat stick to my position that 500 horsepower is enough, already. Perhaps an adjustable suspension system, like the ones popping up on Porsche and VW SUV's could be further engineered to provide both luxury and a more serious sport setting. I know Mercedes utilizes an airmatic suspension, but it could probably be developed further if the AMG guys got their heads out of the engine compartment.

    Speaking of harsh, the S2000 wasn't. Sitting on 16" wheels with 55 and 50 series rubber, I didn't find the ride harsh except over serious potholes. No more so than our new Acura TL sitting on 17" wheels and 45 series tires. And probably less so than the "luxury" oriented E55 sitting on 18" and 40 and 35 series tires. Which gets back to my point, that, for the relative harshness of the former E55, I was not at all impressed with it's handling. The less harsh M5 handles much better, IMO. I have not yet had the opportunity to drive the new E55.

    IMO, the S2000's "harshness" wasn't the ride, but the noise. My wife never got used to the sound of the engine and interior even when cruising on the highway. I didn't find it too objectionable, but it certainly wasn't as easy on the ears as an Acura TL or Mercedes E-class. Still, I wouldn't trade the 9,000 rpm 2002 model we had for the new 8,000 rpm de-tuned version. Earplugs are cheap. 9,000 rpm was unique. It still hurts a little to be driving down the road in our insulated cabin, listening to a digital music DVD, checking the 8" voice activated navigation system for directions, calling a restaurant on the Bluetooth phone and then seeing a Spa Yellow S2000 cruise by with it's top down. Oh well, at least our TL has a "real" 6-speed!
  • portknoxxaportknoxxa Member Posts: 69
    Why have a M- Divison and and AMG division if you are not going go all the way with performance. 4 years ago a 394hp M5 was the king of the hill, and now you have the S65 with 600hp. I know this has probably been said before, but when Fast and Furious came out, men, women, and children wanted fast and sporty cars, weather coupe, sedan, suv, or truck. The story in autoweek did say that E60 M5 will have a launch button. The S2 Dinan recorded 0-60 in 4.2s. 0-60 times are very important to the M and AMG. I'm also curious to see the curb weight of the E60 M5. Not fare to compare sedans to roadsters. It's funny but in all the comparos i've seen for the M3, they've always compared it to a C32 AMG, Audi S4, and even a porcshe and corvette. Saw one comparo against a CLK55 AMG. I know i rambling but i admire the M5, mainly for not using turbo/super chargers, and having a true manny. How does a S2000 match up to a Z4?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    No problem with passion, I enjoy reading your posts.

    When I was talking about the S2000 I meant they made it more driveable/livable for everyday use, not just better riding. I didn't mean to imply that it had a rough ride.

    I agree about the old E55 vs the old M5, they old M5 did handle better without the ride penalty according to most, though Road and Track did say the E55 handled better - a curious decision.

    M
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I'm going out on a limb here, but I am willing to bet that among the actual purchasers of $80,000+ M5's or E55's or $125k+ S65's, fewer than one tenth of 1% paid $6.50 to see the Fast and Furious.

    And to go a little further out on that limb, I am going to bet that fewer than one tenth of 1% of those that paid $6.50 to see the Fast and Furious will ever actually be able to afford an AMG or M car.

    The Motorsport and AMG divisions clearly have performance as a priority, as they should. I would submit, however, that prospective buyers that can actually afford their cars have a different and broader definition of "performance" than those that can't. And if I were in charge of AMG or BMW, I'd make damn sure I focused my attention on the former.

    As far as an S2000 matching up against a Z4, both are very good cars that achieve similar results using very different methods. The S2000 essentially has a half size Formula 1 engine. Low torque, 9,000 rpm redline (pre-2004) and perhaps the best 6-speed transmission money can buy. The Z4 uses a torquier ubiquitous engine that you can find in every vehicle they sell from the X5 to the 330i to the 530i. It gets the job done with power, but not as much sophistication, intensity or excitement. Similar comparison could be made between the chassis.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    I must take issue with your reported time slip numbers for the 70's-era Buick. "SS" was a Chevy nameplate. Also, no Buick 455 Gran Sport (GS) or any other flavor ever recorded sub 3-second 0-60's or sub 11-second quarter miles.

    Was this a Super-Stock (your use of "SS") modified Buick? ;-)
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Now that you mention it, I think it was a "GS" not an "SS". And it was somewhat modified, as I recall, with "headers" and racing slicks. But my buddy still drove it daily to his summer job working for UPS. I believe the year was 1977 or 1978.

    I am quite certain he showed me time slips in the high 10's / low 11's from the local drag strip. Just for the fun of it, I'll try contacting him and, if successful, report back on the actual times. My memory may be a little rusty, that was going on 30 years ago.

    My point was that you don't have to buy an AMG or "Motorsport" sedan if drag racing is your sole measurement of "performance". It's not mine. Wasn't back then, and I certainly didn't regress over the years since.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Absolutely... we buy the AMG or M-Sport BMW's for the engineering excellence combined with top-end performance. Built as high-speed cars for the wealthier buyers, they combine sheer performance, luxury, solidity and status in a single package. Many classes at this level of investment (911, DB9, SL55, etc) to whet your appetite for speed.

    My Submariner doesn't keep better time than my Seiko sports watch, but I certainly don't confuse them or their mission ;-) Although my 2003 530 SP does not offer the highest acceleration attribute of the performance equation, it does everything else to my sheer delight.

    Someone in an E55 ain't gonna get to work any faster than I can! This is why my dream garage would look something like Jay Leno's... something for every occasion and every mood! From the Subie WRX STi to the E55/M5... "it's all good".

    I dig the older American performance cars as well... 65-67 GTO, any pre-'68 Corvette, SS396 Chevelles, Boss Mustangs (302, 351, 429), and of course... HEMI Cuda's!
  • paulchiupaulchiu Member Posts: 378
    Hi all, I was a fan here years ago when I was thinking 2002-2004 E55 as my lease on a 2001 S500 was ending. I couldn't get the 2004 E55 last summer and ended up with a Lexus LS430 after my S500 lease. After 13 months in the limo, I am very bored. The LS430 is indeed absent of the annoying panel squeaks, center console rattles, and tire noise of the S500, but drives like a Towncar.

    Rode in a friend's 2004 E55 recently, and that acceleration in a compact car is out of sight.

    Since my ride was short and I was busy talking business, let me ask those here with experience with both S500 and E55. Is the E55 better in terms of the annoying interios noise? I remember the 99 E55 was very quiet over even cobblestone roads and the side roads around Scarsdale NY.

    I had driven a E500 for about 10 miles and it was pretty rattle free, although that dealer demo had a loose part in the trunk.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Paul
  • pcvettepcvette Member Posts: 4
    A reply and a question.. I have an '04 SL55 and for the most part trouble free. If you get a 55 (E or SL or S) I'd strongly suggest you require Michelin instead of Pirelli. If anyone out there has an '04 55, do you experience pause/tick/hiccup starting out in "C" or "S"? Dealer tells me the supercharger if off at idle (also cruising)and kicks in at start around 1500 RPM. ??
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