Saturn S-Series

traveler · May 2000

Struts do take longer to wear out than the shocks used to. Their life depends on type of roads you travel on the majority of time. Gravel roads are hardest on any suspension part thus lower life span of the strut. The old tried and true jounce test will show which strut is not working properly. As far as the engine, with regular oil and filter changes every 3000 miles I'm hoping to get 150,000 miles on it before I replace the car.

clary · May 2000

What is the jounce test?

floridian · May 2000

The "jounce Test" was a suspension test perfected by the late DR. Siegfried Jounce a respected automotive engineer that worked for Borgward GMBH for many years. It is a test to determine the performance of automotive suspension systems. Put in layman's terms the car is "drop tested" by pushing it off a 100 foot tower. If it "jounces" (German for bounce)it passes. If the suspension collapses then it's back to the drawing board. Dr. Jounce was killed doing one of these tests. It seems he forgot to exit the car before it became airbourne. Too bad, he was in line for a big job at Porsche.

Floridian

sloan2 · May 2000

I was suspicious of post 318 as soon as I read Dr. Jounce's last name. My suspicians were confirmed as I read the part about the 100 foot tower. Floridian, that is the funniest post I've ever read.

Someone please explain what the Jounce test really is. I think it has to do with how many times a car bounces when you go over a bump or when you push down on the car above a particular wheel.

j_coleman · May 2000

I think it's a good idea to replace the battery around 50K miles. You might also want to replace belts and hoses around this time too if they have any cracks. An ounce of prevention...

lngtonge18 · June 2000

You obviously didn't get the jist of my message, so I will explain my point a little more clearly to you. Wouldn't you be ticked if someone clicked on your profile, saw you provided an email address and decided that because they didn't like you or your comments, to send you a nasty little stupid email? I think you would! No, someone does not need permission per say as it is posted clearly, but most people would ask if it was ok to email or the person would say clearly that "if you have further questions, please feel free to email me". I did not post my email address to listen to some lunatic bashing me outside of the forum I am involved with. It is there so people who I WANT to converse with can get in contact with me. He took this forum too seriously by doing what he did. Lastly, I did not threaten to send him emails, I just posted the email address to allow others to do the job for me

If you think that is petty, fine. But my point in doing that was to let him know that I did not take kindly to what he did and would let everyone else know about his actions. It was also done to scare him. Kind of like disciplining a child, lol. So, now do you understand the point surrounding my post?

dhanley · June 2000

I do get what your'e saying. I'm just pointing out that it's silly of you to call him immature for something you're doing, or trying to do worse by getting others to e-mail him. Usually children don't discipline other children, right?

dave

traveler · June 2000

You stand by each corner of the car (one at a time) and push down on the fender and try to get the car to bounce up and down then on your last push downward, lift your hands off and see if it stops almost immediately. If it bounces more than once the strut or shock is wearing out and should be replaced. Be careful, I was pulling up on the fender lip on a 88 Aerostar I had and slightly crinkled the fender doing the jounce test. The metal is just not as thick as it used to be in the 60's.

timc1 · June 2000

my dealer says he can't find a 2000 sl without a/c in minnesota, wisconsin, north dacota, south dacota, or iowa.

fredfred3 · June 2000

When I was new car shopping a few months ago, I also noticed that every SL on the lots here in New Jersey had air.

floridian · June 2000

Now you guys have gone and done it. Killed off Saturnboy. Where will I get my daily LOL now?? I bet his "spirit" is still lurking out there tho. We may be "haunted" by him yet again, count on it.

Floridian

shannonl · June 2000

Is it just me or does it seem like Satarn's have more problems then usual?? Right now I own a 87 chevette that has 218000 miles on it need less to say it doesn't look good but I have never had a problem with it!

grif73071 · June 2000

I am new here and can not find a reference to my particular problem.

I bought a used 95 SL1/5spd from the local dealer in Oklahoma City. Car looked and ran great with 88000 miles. My daughter drove over a curb 2-3 inches high at 10 miles per hour. The front sway bar bracket touched the curb. This impact was similar to hitting a pot-hole or a rough railroad crossing on a city street.

The right front k-frame buckled and the engine block cracked. I approached the local dealer service department about participating in the repair since this seemed to be some kind of design flaw to have that extensive damage from such a minor event. They ran backwards and gave me the factory 1-800 number and said the factory would have to make that decision.

I talked to a customer service representative in Tenn. I had the car towed to the local dealer for their techs to examine the damage. They gave me an estimate for parts and labor that exceeded the value of the car. The service manager also explained that the crumple zone of the car worked just the way it was supposed to work.

I called the factory representative I had dealt with and she said the local dealer had decided the car had performed as designed to perform in that situation. I commented that I was receiving two different stories and she repeated hers. She also explained how the car had done what it was designed to do.

They did not want to look at the photos or drawings of the event and did not seem interested in how the damage occurred before washing their hand of the problem.

TWO INCH CURB AT 10 MPH = TOTAL LOSS!!

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

fredfred3 · June 2000

Speaking of Saturnboy, has anyone noticed that all of his postings from the time of his (last) announcement that he was quitting the list have suddenly vanished. Anyone know how this happened?? I didn't know that you could erase messages. I guess Saturnboy didn't want there to be any permanent record of his "I admit Sautrns are not perfect" post

floridian · June 2000

neat little job of sabotage eh ?

Floridian, heh,heh,heh

tomcat630 · June 2000

My sister and her then hubby bought a 1992 used Saturn 5 years ago. I and they thought it was a good car.

Now, 5 years later, they are splitting up and she doesn't want the Saturn, which is sitting somewhere dead again! Turns out that her 1991 Escort that she got in 1992 has proven to be more reliable!

traveler · June 2000

Enough already, I don't care to hear about why or why not he is not at this site anymore. I'm more interested in how well or bad someones experience with their Saturn SL is. So far I have just over 28,000 on my SL2 in 13 months. Only thing I have had done was a muffler replaced as the original developed stress cracks and was replaced under warranty at about 22,000 miles. Hope the replacement lasts a lot longer. I do plan on driving it for 150,000 miles or more with little more than normal maintenance and replacing items that need to be.

dhanley · June 2000

Seems like I have heard a strongly bimodal distribution of saturn problems. A lot of the people either have no problems or a lot of problems. I tend to think there are a lot more of the first group, from comparing the breakdown of people I talk to about the cars in real life vs on the web, and I theorize that it may have something to do with having it serviced at the dealer or not ( might be sensitive to bad service ) but that's just a theory.

10mph=loss. I dunno. My car has more than 3 inches clearance ( i looked ). Were you actaully there, and looking at the odometer? How exactly did you measure the impact?

dave

grif73071 · June 2000

Thanks for the comeback Dave.

I am a police officer (desk bound now in admin.)who specialized in traffic accident investigation when I worked the street. Seen a few crashes.

In short, the vehicle came to rest approx. one vehicle length from the area of impact, which was determined by a scratch in the concrete which corresponded with the concrete residue on the bent sway bar bracket. Further, the hub-cap remained on the right front tire, the tire bead was not broken loose and the wheel rim had only a quarter inch deflection out of round. The resting place of the vehicle was indicated in the lawn by a bare spot where my daughter spun the wheel taking off (new driver in her first stick shift) in the slick grass. All this was photographed and diagramed by myself at the time of the incident.
I believe the facts support the stated speed of the driver at 10 mph.

But since I don't trust myself to be completely objective here (my kid you know) I have asked a friend of mine to look over the vehicle and scene.
He is an accident reconstruction specialist with a local department.

Sorry I left out the details on the original post, but it seemed a bit long as it grew in the telling. I figured I could fill in the gaps if anyone came back at me.

I will post new info if my reconstructionist sees it differently. Also, I sent a nasty e-mail to Saturn yesterday. The reply was as smooth as butter - but without substance.
Thanks again for the response.

goldstrom · June 2000

This is response to all you whiners out there, get a life! I have had the great privilege to own 2 Saturns in my life, I owned a 94 SC2 and was delighted when my wife decided she wanted a 2000 SL2. In my opinion they are the perfect car, I had no problems with my 94 and so far none with the 2000, and by the way no rattles either.
As for all the supposed auto experts that seam to blast Saturns, I have looked at quit a few cars and can't seam to find any that are as attractive as the SL2 and for that fact all Saturns. The Focus and Echo are just plane ugly. The Cavalier and Sunfire are Okay but I just prefer the Saturn.
I closing while all you whiners sit and complain I'll just sit back and enjoy my trouble free, born and built in the good old USA SATURN!!!!

norbert444 · June 2000

I do not notice Focuses on the road so much. They look like an ordinary car, nothing much. However, the Echos DO STAND OUT, they are so gross looking, IMHO. A narrow car with a pregnant trunk!

traveler · June 2000

Have to admit that after reading your first post about the amount of damage I thought NO WAY!!! something is missing. Your second post added a lot of info to make it believeable. I do have to ask, were the wheels skidding or rolling over the curb? If skidding that would create a lot more force on the sway bar mounts. A note, the sway bar also works with the lower control arm to hold the control arm in position. Hope I don't have a freak accident like your daughters of going over a curb and having that much damage.

grif73071 · June 2000

Wheels were pretty much 90 degrees to the curb and the direction of travel was straight ahead. I agree, if the wheels were turned a lot or the angle of attack on the curb less than square that could have made some difference.

This was exactly like straight ahead travel on a city street where the tire drops into a deep pothole and the lowest point of the auto scrapes the edge of the hole as the car rebounds out of the hole. Yes, we in Oklahoma City have potholes large & deep enough to loose a small car.

As I pointed out to Saturns "customer satisfaction" person, hundreds of cars in America drag their bellies on the ground each year. They sometimes suffer bent parts such as brackets and sway bars, they get knocked out of alignment, they have bent wheels. They do not have collateral damage to this extent.

grif73071 · June 2000

Forgot to answer your first question. :-)

Wheels were rolling. No skid marks approaching curb. Some rubber scuffed onto curb at area where tire first touched.

goldstrom · June 2000

No I'm not realated to Saturnboy, I don't know who he is nor do I care. I do care about people that bash good cars such as Saturns!!!

traveler · June 2000

I'm in upstate NY and we get potholes in a big way. I hit one on a rainy night on the interstate and the sound it made, I thought I was going to lose a wheel. Stopped and checked and no damage to tire or wheel. Will be taking it to dealer for an alignment.

norbert444 · June 2000

Re: engine knocking problem we discussed two weeks ago.

dave and fredfred3: you had a similar advice, calling for decarbonization of cylinders/injectors. Just to make sure, I first took my SL2 to my local mechanic, who first checked the oil and found it to be at the low end of the stick, at the "ADD" mark. He asked me to put in a quart of oil - but it did not fix the problem. However, then I went to Kragen and bought a 99-cent bottle of injector cleaner (akin to Techron) and put it in at the bottom of the tank at the next fillup. Hey, it seems to do the trick!! I did not notice any pinging after two days of use!

traveler: if the mixture were too rich, I'd suppose this would be caught at the next emission check which is compulsory here in California every two years. My Saturn had been passing it with a lot of room to spare so far!

Thanks again, guys. You are worth it!

dhanley · June 2000

Hey, I got something right! I better go tell my wife!

Seriously.. I'm glad that worked for you. I do it periodically as a preventitive measure. My saturn passed the emissions test by a huge margin too.. You are allowed 103 parts per here, and i had 3. I was just a tad worried, because it does burn a quart of oil every 1500 miles or so.

dave

dhanley · June 2000

Sorry, if that sounded too challenging.. I was just curious, becauase I have beat up my car quite a bit. I still wonder if hitting a curb will really be like hitting a big pot hole, but i dunno.

dave

ewesson · June 2000

I am a violently dissatisfied ex Saturn owner.
I bought a 94 SC2 new, and loved it ... for the
first thousand miles or so.

After that, minor things went wrong. Throttle
springs broke, the fuel door broke. All in all,
about five times I had it back in the dealership
for minor but annoying repairs. Catalytic converter failed. Spark plug wires failed. and and and. The ABS light on the dash would spontaneously come on. Still I loved it and was pro-Saturn.

During my ownership, I offhandedly noticed that not much oil came out when I did the oil changes every 3000 - 4000 miles. I didn't think much of it, assuming that a new car wasn't going to burn much oil. Previously I had owned many different cars of ages ranging from 50K to 100K miles, of all different makes, and not one had burned more than a quart of oil per 3000 mile interval.

I was thus unpleasantly surprised when I let an oil change interval slip to 4500 miles, and the engine failed, at 36050 miles. The dealership calmly told me it ran out of oil, and it was my fault for not checking the oil every time I filled it with gas. Note that the oil light never came on; what good is that?

Saturn, in its infinite generosity, split the $4000 cost of the engine replacement with me.

Doing further research I found out that burning a
quart of oil every 1000 miles was "normal" for that Saturn engine.

Saturn built an engine that when new drinks more oil than most 150,000 mile Toyotas out there, and they never took responsibility for that negligence.

I now own a Subaru, and have had ZERO problems for 30K miles now. It simply is a far better designed and built car, in my ever so humble opinion.

ewesson · June 2000

I visited the www.saturnexposed.com web site and have to say that the collection of Saturn horror stories is impressive. Compared to the number of Saturns sold it's not many, but then again I am sure there are many who have similar horror stories and have not shared their stories with anyone.

Posters on this board attempted to discredit the originator of this web site because he is an attorney and because he is trying to get money out of Saturn. I am no fan of attorneys in general, but how does the fellow's choice of profession discredit him? He *is* trying to get money out of Saturn corporation, just like I tried like hell to get Saturn to pay the full cost of replacing my engine. If he was trying to use his professional status as an attorney to get money out of Saturn, he would be suing, not publishing a web site.

Which brings me to the title of this post. I believe that the reason Saturn is as high as it is in customer satisfaction is because everyone smiles and is so nice at the dealerships. The customers are brainwashed into thinking everything is terrific and wonderful, so they overlook reliability issues. When JD Powers contacts them, they forget about the repair issues and continue to say everything is wonderful. I fell victim to that brainwashing and just ignored all the little stuff that went wrong. When they sent me surveys I felt obligated to fill out "Excellent!" because I didn't want to criticize my Saturn family.

Now that I own a Subaru, I know what ownership of good cars is supposed to feel like. I can't believe how many times I brought my Saturn into the dealer for repairs, and I can't believe I blissfully ignored those repairs when people asked me how I liked my car.

This brainwashing reminds me of the brand loyalty my family had for Volvos. We suffered through a simply astonishing number of repairs, yet continued to say how we liked the car. I dealt with water pump issues in the 1971 we had; I later owned a 1980 and was shocked to find out the leaking water pump was still of the same flawed design. But still I Loved My Volvo. Another family member owned a much newer Volvo. The automatic transmission failed at 40K miles. Volvo said he was out of luck. So the guy bought a new Volvo on the spot! Glassy-eyed brand loyalty.

fredfred3 · June 2000

Nobody here is bashing anything. People are sharing their experiences that they have had with their cars--both good and bad. If there seem to be more negative posts than positive, that does not mean the person is "bashing" Saturn, but it is a relflection on the problems they have had.

clary · June 2000

Brainwashed? Gimme a break.

macarthur2 · June 2000

It would be so nice to be able to talk about a car without the defensive people getting so hot under the collar. If you comment negatively it is Bashing - Saturnboy loved that term. And it sets them off on a tiraid that is tiring to say the least. Just talk about your experience with the car and have the decency to let other people discuss theirs. Stop defending the marque, if it is any good it will stand very well by itself. If it is not it will be gone in a couple of years.

ewesson · June 2000

Just don't drink the kool aid they serve at the Saturn dealerships!

I should append to my comments: I feel that I was brainwashed, and I have observed brainwashing in my family regarding their undying and irrational love for Volvos.

I don't know that other people have been brainwashed into loving their Saturns, but I am speculating that the "different kind of car" etc. stuff contributes to it. My speculation may be completely wrong, for you and for other people. It's just speculation on my part, and that's that.

If you love your Saturn and are happy owning it, all the more power to you.

If you hate your Saturn, I'm sorry. If it makes you feel any better, you have company.

If you are shopping for an car, I urge you to consider all available options, at actual selling price (expect about 3-4% above invoice), before joining the Saturn family, or any other family for that matter. You will, I feel, be happier in the long run.

One comment regarding resale value: a key mistake I made was to compare resale prices to original MSRP. On this point Saturn compared favorably to other cars. However, it's misleading, because almost all other cars sold for less than the MSRP. When you discount the original MSRP, the advantage disappears. Case in point: I paid $17.5K before TTL for my Saturn SC2 in mid '94. Just over three years and about 50K miles later, I sold the thing for under half that, and the car was in excellent shape. Not terrible depreciation, but not outstanding by any means.

Good luck and happy motoring to all!

traveler · June 2000

I can understand your enthusiasm about a car that has not caused you any trouble. But I would not go so far as to call them perfect. If there ever was a perfect car, there would not be any negative posts about them. A review of the posts proves no manufacturer has a corner on a perfect car. I like my saturn and I hope that it lasts me for 150,000 miles with only replacement of worn out parts ie tires, struts, plugs and plugwires oil and filters etc. If it starts going into major problems, will cross that bridge then.

dhanley · June 2000

I think that's an exageration. Furthermore, people have not just discredited the purveyor of the saturnexposed site due to his being a lwayer trying to get money out of saturn, but because of his service history(not serviced well), the fact that his car had been in an accident, and the fact that his car had heavy mods to the electrical system for a custom sterio, and when THAT was unhooked, the car worked OK. I don't think a friendly dealer is going to make most people accept an inferior car, either--most people get small services done elsewhere anyways.

I don't know if some of you people are counting me as a saturn brainwashee, but I am planning to upgrade my ride to a grand prix GTP sometime soon. Looked at the new saturn LS, thought it was ok, but thought the GTP was more of my kid of car. Although my sl2 has been very good until now, and amazingly economical, I just want something bigger, faster, quiter, with more "stuff." I did not even consider another sl2--been there, done that. Beleive me, if my saturn had been an unreliable car, it would have been gone long ago, i've been fiending for a faster car for quite some time. Now, my saturn does go through a quart of oil every 1500 miles or so nowadays(90K miles), and I did have to replace warped brake rotors at 75K miles ( maybe i could have turned them.. ) BUT, it's never left me stranded or had to go back to the dealer for an unscheduled trip. My major issue with the car is wind and road noise, which i find to be excessive; otherwise i knew very well what i was getting.

dave

ewesson · June 2000

I don't think you're a brainwashee by any means. Warping brake rotors at 75k miles would be nothing to complain about in my book.

Perhaps the folks that have Saturn lemons feel betrayed because they thought it was a different kind of car and so violently turn against the marque, so thus you see such vehement posts.

There is no objective data about cars' repair histories, as far as I know. Perhaps someday we will have car repair tracking by VIN, so we can view really good data about repair histories.

My biggest beef is that Saturn knew about the engines' oil consumption and did nothing about it besides hide behind their recommendation that the oil be checked at every fill-up. If the company was indeed a different kind of company, why wouldn't they offer free oil changes every 3K miles with the best synthetic oils known to reduce oil consumption? At the very least, warn people that it happens so they know to check the oil at least every 1000 miles. Or change the oil pressure sensors so they are sensitive enough to warn about pressures low enough to cause engine destruction. Or fix the problem: Someone told me it was the valve seals and guides; someone else told me it was the rings. There are a lot of things they could have done, but they just hid their heads in the sand. Maybe they were too afraid of how they would look after their massive early life recalls.

The evasiveness is what bothers me the most. For example, I never did an oil change interval longer than the recommended 7.5K miles; most were around 3-4K miles. Yet Saturn told me the intervals should be no more than 3K miles. The reason they cited was that most vehicles are driven in "extreme driving conditions". First of all, I used mine for totally vanilla daily commutes of ~10 miles. No dust, no one-block driving, no towing. Second, if most vehicles are driven in "extreme driving conditions" why not make that the default oil change interval?!?

Had I been warned about it, I probably would be ambivalent about the car. I would have thought it was an okay car except it drinks oil. As it was, I assumed a brand new car wouldn't have excessive oil consumption. When I noted lower oil levels, I shrugged it off as a quirk and was surprised when the engine went ratatatatatabang. So now I think the marque is evil.

Evil. Saturn: an evil kind of car company.

sacre_bleu · June 2000

Those are the three models I'm looking at now, and the rap from the Saturn sales rep is that the 4-door Saturn SL2 is roomier, a bit cheaper, and as dependable. She dismissed the Civic as smaller and the Corolla as less dependable.

Your thoughts, Saturn fans (and critics)?

lngtonge18 · June 2000

I just wanted to let you know my small encounters with the 97-99 Grand Prixs. I am quite unimpressed with this car. My sister's mother-in-law bought a 97 Grand Prix new and loved it (as she should, seeing as she came from a 93 Tempo). However, within a few months, she asked me if it was normal for the car to stall after starting it in the mornings. Sometimes it took 3 tries and her foot on the gas before the car would stay running (she had the base 3.1 liter V-6). Next, I noticed a misaligned sticking rear door and told her to take it in and get it adjusted. She constantly has flat tires and yet the tire inflation warning system either never warned her or warned her after the tire was completely flat. What good is that? Just another pointless gimmick that doesn't work if you ask me. Her cloth split bench seats are some of the most uncomfortable seats I have ever sat in. It felt like a bunch of logs underneath me with little to no padding whatsoever. In this same time frame, my sister's 97 Maxima never had any problems, other then what she considered to be poor fuel economy (she left it idling for up to 30 minutes at a time).
I also took a ride in a 99 Grand Prix GT coupe. I was curious so I asked my friend if it had been reliable. He said, "Oh yeah its been great, although I did blow the water pump already". That is pathetic! A water pump should not fail within a year. But what disturbed me the most was how poorly put together it felt. Driving on a relatively smooth sand road, the chassis flexed noticeably and the dashboard shook, squeaked, popped, and rattled something terrible! The doors felt heavy yet closed with a tinny clunk. The leather was some of the poorest quality I have ever seen. It looked and felt more like vinyl than leather. I think GM still has some serious build quality issues and I would think twice before looking into one of their products.

sacre_bleu · June 2000

One more question: The sales rep looked at our Toyota Tercel 1993 4-door, 135,000 miles, said they would give us so little for it she wouldn't even put it in the numbers she was working up as a trade-in. But doing the calculations on edmunds.com and the kelley's blue book (kbb.com) the trade-in values were calculated as $1,600 and $2,250.

That's so little it doesn't count? Or is Saturn being tough on trade-ins?

lngtonge18 · June 2000

Well, the saleswoman's comparisons are a bit off. I would never believe what a car salesman has to say, especially when it is of a car that he is not selling. First, the Corolla is a very dependable car that constantly ranks highly on quality surveys, even higher then Saturn. However, the Corolla is noticeably cramped in the rear seat compared to the Saturn. So if you plan on hauling normal sized people in the back seat often, I would mark off the Corolla or else you will hear some loud complaints regarding lack of leg room and shoulder space. The Civic has about the same amount of space as the Saturn, but has a much more comfortable rear seat. The seat back angle and shape on the Saturn makes it very uncomfortable. As far as price, the Saturn is FAR from cheaper once you option it up to the same equipment levels as the Civic and Corolla. Further more, you can dicker the price down on the other two, especially the Civic since an all new model is coming out in the fall. The Saturn does have more power compared to the Civic. I guess it all boils down to what you like, not what a salesperson tries to tell you is better.

norbert444 · June 2000

... is back! Maybe it never went away except I did not notice it since my wife drives it during the week.

The techron equivalent has now been almost consumed (the tank is down to less than a 1/4), so that was not the solution. [Sorry, Dave] I have added oil on the advice of my mechanic(the car has only about 48K miles on it, low for a 95 SL2 but it is beginning to drink oil, it seems), and that was not the right anti-pinging solution either.

I will see my mechanic again and ask him to check it out some more. Maybe he will tell me to go to the higher octane gas.

dhanley · June 2000

ewesson: Yeah, if my engine had burned up from lack of oil, i'd be really pissed off too. On one hand, i wish they'd be more open about it, on the other hand, I don't forsee any salesman really saying "be careful, there's a good chance it may drink oil." Even my use of mobil one hasn't helped.

sacre bleu: Well, I did like my car more than civic and corolla when i got mine in '96, and though i do still think the saturn drives better and is safer, the civic has gotten bigger since then, and the corolla is still probably tops in real reliability. Toyota always dominates that category, but I think they are dull to drive.

lngtongue:
Thanks, maybe a bit off topic though. I wonder if your grand prix opinion is as based in reality as your saab opinions?

dave

fredfred3 · June 2000

Maybe you should try having a mechanic powerflush the carbon from you car like I had done with my Olds. It made a terrific difference

lngtonge18 · June 2000

LOL. I know you are joking, but my remarks regarding the Grand Prix are from my real life encounters with it. I don't have an opinion on Saab as I have no real experience with them

dannyg · June 2000

I've seen a number of references to a "carbon powerflush" in this & other forums. About how much does this cost? Does it improve MPG? HP?

My 1985 truck has 96K on it and runs well. I'm thinking of having a powerflush. But it doesn't "ping", even with 87 octane gas, so maybe it doesn't need it.

Thanks.

dhanley · June 2000

Yeah, i think you are spot on one some of those things after driving a GP quite a bit yesterday and crawling through it a lot. Lot of power, lot of features, but i thought the build quality was spotty(loose bits and some silly design) and the car handles a bit sloppy. I think the engine and trans are wonderful, and for an extra $50 on the part of GM per car, it could be great!

dave

sloan2 · June 2000

While it is definitely useful for everyone to share their Saturn experiences, good and bad, it seems that I've recently read more negative than positive remarks. And that is understandable since we voice our complaints more than we relay our satisifaction.

So, I wanted write about my Saturn experience. My wife and I bought a brand new 1993 SL1 in May of that year, just 10 days before our wedding. It was to be her car, I drove an IROC at the time. She was so proud of the Blue/Green Saturn, too (A big improvement over an '84 Omega). She drove it for the first 3-4 trouble-free years of its life and then we bought a '96 Grand AM GT for her which was a beautiful, but cheaply made car. However, it caused us absolutely no problems in 66,000 miles.

Anyway, I began driving the Saturn in '96 because I commute 30 miles to work and it is gets great mileage (as long as the A/C is off!). Now the car is seven years old and has 151,000 miles and is running great. I have never taken it to the dealership for their recommended maintenance. I think that it is too expensive. I've done most of the maintenance myself, or had it done at Firestone. The car has had a few items replaced, including a timing chain (done by the Saturn dealership), but most of the repairs were made at over 100,000 miles and we've had no problems in the last 30,000 miles. It does drink a little oil now, but even that has slowed since I bought an additive at Wal-Mart to slow oil consumption. I am planning to drive the car another 60,000 with God's help.

I suspect there are others who read this site routinely who keep quiet because they have nothing to complain about. If so, lets here some of your stories. Hopefully, I am not the only satisfied customer. I know Saturnboy is satisfied, even if he is a little balistic.

goldstrom · June 2000

I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you open the hood and use the little yellow stick, called an oil dip stick. This would have prevented you from running out of oil.
I think its great that Saturn split the difference with you on the replacement cost. Just make sure you check the oil at least once a week and you shouldn't have any problems.
My 2000 Saturn as well as the 94 never use any oil.
Good Luck

Saturn S-Series

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