Saturn S-Series

birdman579 · February 2002

From what I've been reading on this message board, Saturns all seem to have the same problems at about the same mileage. I have a 93 SL2 with 115K miles. I've replaced the alternator twice (50K and 100K), engine mount twice (45K and 90K), water leaks (60K), and routine stuff like brakes and tires. Nothing, but routine maintenance since the alternator a year ago; knock on wood. For those of you with slightly more mileage, what can I expect to need replacement in the coming year? I want to try and reach 150K miles before buying the new Infiniti G35 or Mazda 6. Is this wishful thinking?

claywaterfill · February 2002

You are right about the BS other dealers put you through. I forgot how easy it was to buy a Saturn. We bought the 1999 SL2 last night. I think between seeing it monday night and buying it tuesday night, I interacted with my salesman less than an hour. The finance guy asked me one time about this extended service plan, I said no, and that was it. On to the signing, and we were gone.

When I test drove it monday, I found the receipts from the oil changes the woman who owned it first did--every 3000 miles like clokwork. I did not, however, find a receipt from getting new spark plugs at 30,000 miles or a new air filter--so I made an appointment with the service department to get these things done. If it didn't need them, then new ones won't hurt. If she didn't get them done, then I need them. I will also get them to check the brakes. I think it's like $149 to change the front brakes. They gave me more for my trade than I knew it was worth, so I may just get them done, too, while it's there if it's anywhere close to needing them. The car was originally sold at the dealer I bought it from--so I figure if she liked the car so much that she traded it for another Saturn, then she probably liked and took care of it. We shall see; but, I feel good about it being a good commuter for 3 or 4 years at least.

mjbwrtr · February 2002

my fiancee owns a 1999 sl1 and is wondering if this car has a timing BELT or timing CHAIN, so we know whether to have it changed now that we are up to 60k miles. also, is this an engine that would be damaged if the belt/chain broke?

lngtonge18 · February 2002

It has a timing chain. You have no need to worry about changing it until about 100k. Most chains never need to be replaced but Saturn's seems to need changing around the 100k mark to avoid failure. If it does break, your engine would be damaged severely.

birdman579 · February 2002

As seen from my above post, my 93 has 115K miles. I haven't changed the timing chain. My understanding is that as long as the tensioner is in good shape, the chain never has to be replaced. I got a new tensioner around 90K miles. According to the Saturn service schedule, there's no mention of replacing the timing chain. I've been doing most of the maintenance myself, but the few times I've had it to the dealer, they've never mentioned replacing the chain. Considering the severe consequences of the chain breaking, I want to ensure that doesn't happen. Can anyone shed any more light on this?

afk_x · February 2002

Saturn timing chains have no scheduled maintinence.

To say they have a life expectancy of 100K is incorrect.

When in doubt check the owners manual - or ask a friendly Saturn service tech.

lngtonge18 · February 2002

I should have been a bit more clear. The timing chain itself isn't a problem, but the tensioners do tend to go around 100k based on some failure stories in here. If it freezes up, you can kiss your chain and engine goodbye. But since there is hardly anymore work involved in replacing the chain while replacing the tensioner, then it's usually done at the same time as a safeguard measure. Since you already replaced your tensioner, I wouldn't worry about it.

wwhite2 · March 2002

My 99 blackberry 5spd sc2 is losing its reliability . Now with 86K mi the drivetrain is falling apart . Car cant seem to handle Easy highway miles ?(rt 290 and the mass pike are great highways). Both front hub bearings have failed and now steering knuckle has failed ....maybe due to improper bearing install before. Had to replace the exhaust resonator and it burns a qt of mobil 1 evert 1k mi......have done oil changed every 3 to 4k . will need a new car soon and will not consider a Saturn

claywaterfill · March 2002

but 42,000 miles a year is pretty darn hard on any car. What kind of car do you think will hold up better under that stress? Especially one that cost as (comparatively) little as yours did? What did you pay, around $15k or so? Good luck on your next car. maybe a new Corolla would be worth a look for that many miles driven per year. An Elantra's drivetrain will still be under warranty at 86,000 miles, give it a look. I hope it's paid for. I can't imagine what a (barely) 3 yr old car with 86,000 miles is worth on a trade.

wwhite2 · March 2002

the car will be 3 yrs old this april so the car averages about 30K per yr. Do I think i am asking to much from this car ....no its prettty easy to build a bearing that would last a million miles of stress free highway driving and its also pretty easy to spec a bearing that will last less than 100K mi. i have been around long enough to remember the junk that was sold to consumers in the 70's ....thirty years later its not looking much better PS the car was $17400

afk_x · March 2002

Why don't you get in touch with Saturn corp. Although you vehicle is WELL out of warrenty if you can document the correct maintinence Saturn may kick in a little to help with the repairs.

I would be pissed too if I were you - but have you taken the car to a Saturn retailer and gotten an estimate? I would also suggest you go to an independant with a good reputation and get an estimate.

Sounds like you just got a rotten car. Recognizing that it is YOUR car that is bad while many other people are very happy and have never had a problem doesn't make YOU feel any better - what does going to another manufacturer going to do? Just make you feel better. Imgaine if you had bought a Camry in 99 and needed a new engine at 30K but it wasn't covered under warrenty because you didn't service at the dealership?

No car is perfect - how is the engine and tranny doing on yours? We have a car in our showroom with 292,000 miles on it. Original engine and transmission.

Again I would contact Saturn corp - it doesn't cost anything but time -

Hope things work out for you...

meuu · March 2002

I have just purchased a 2002 Saturn SL with the manual 5 speed. My question is does anyone else have one that shifts a bit clunky? I have drove manuals all my life and this one seems to click or clunk into gears most the time. I was hopeing it was just a breakin thing but it has gotten no better. Before the dealer gives me some B.S. I just wanted to know if anyone else thinks their car shifts this way? Thanks for any help....

Mike

claywaterfill · March 2002

My 1999 SL2 also shifts a little "clunky." But, I don't really consider it a fault. I think that once you get used to it, the "clunkiness" actually helps you make sure the shifter is going where you want it to go. Of course, yours may be doing something different than mine--so, by all means, have the service department look at it. You say you just bought it--did you not raise a concern during your test drive?

meuu · March 2002

Yes I did kind of notice it during the test drive, but hoped it was a breakin thing. I will bring it to the dealers attention. Other than the shifting thing I really like the car so far. I hope some of the stories I have read hear are not very common. I hope to run 150,000 to 200,000 miles without major problems. I ran 203,000 miles on a plymouth horizon without one major problem. Just an alternator and tires/brakes, very depenable car....

birdman579 · March 2002

I'm now at 117.5K miles (Feb 19, I was only at 115K; damn I drive a lot) and just took my car to the dealer for some service. They told me $1600 of work should be done! Is this a load a crap? Here are the major issues: new front brake pads and rotors ($350), fog light replacement ($140), replace spark plugs and wires, clean throttle body, to correct and prevent carbon buildup ($300), flush automatic transmission fluid ($350), replace upper engine mount ($250), and some other minor issues.

I had the brakes done, which I now feel was a mistake. According to dealer, the front pads were at 5/32, according to my Haynes repair manual, 1/16 is the minimum thickness. They feel better, but could have gone longer. I love the fog lights so I replaced it. The housing was completely rusted and stopped working even after replacing the bulb. What's the story with spark plug wires arcing? I can't figure out how to diagnosis this. I declined this and figure I'll take care of when I do the 120K mile service myself. Flushing the automatic transmission fluid? I've been changing it as scheduled so I declined this as well. Replace upper engine mount? I did this 18 months/25K miles ago. It looks fine to me and I remember what a collapsed mount looks like. My car is running fine so I'm not terribly concerned about any of the issues, but would appreciate some feedback.

wwhite2 · March 2002

most of those repairs can be done with basic auto tools . And an average comsumer can do a better job performing that work .

birdman579 · March 2002

wwhite2: what repairs specifically are you calling expensive? The brakes were $250 in parts so $100 doesn't seem outrageous for installation. The fog light replacement was $70 in parts, but it was all rusted and a pain to get to (I have changed the bulbs on several occasions) so I decided to have the dealer do the dirty work. Replacing the spark plugs and wires seemed really high to me so I'll do it myself. The auto transmission flush also seems pricey. Can a mechanic do that for less? The engine mount replacement is also too much. I did this myself as well. The part was $70 and only took about 30 minutes to replace. Very fun and easy to do. What's the going rate for a 120K mile service? I'm going to do it myself, but am curious. The dealers in my area (Balt/Wash) want $325-350. That seems expensive. I will say, the dealers all seem to know what they're doing. Any problems I've had, all have been fixed the first time. Never a repeat trip to the dealer.

afk_x · March 2002

You said..

"I'm now at 117.5K miles (Feb 19, I was only at 115K; damn I drive a lot) and just took my car to the dealer for some service. They told me $1600 of work should be done! Is this a load a crap? Here are the major issues: new front brake pads and rotors ($350), fog light replacement ($140), replace spark plugs and wires, clean throttle body, to correct and prevent carbon buildup ($300), flush automatic transmission fluid ($350), replace upper engine mount ($250), and some other minor issues."

I'm not an expert on service issues. The prices you mentioned are about right for a Saturn dealer to charge - except they are on the very HIGH side of what I have seen. In particular $350 to flush the tranny fluid and (I assume) replace the filter. Thats about a 70 dollar internal job.

My advice would be when it comes to big repair issues or when your car is still low in miles and worth more its not a bad idea to pay the extra money for actual Saturn dealer work.

When your car has that many miles I would suggest you find a local reputable mechanic who can proably do the same work for

New front brakes and rotors (200)
Fog light replacement (80)
Spark plugs and wires - clean throttle body (100)
Transmission flush and new filter (100)
Replace top motor mount (80)

Also if you are handy at all you could do the majority of the above work at home. The most difficult part would be new front brakes and rotors - and thats not too hard.

claywaterfill · March 2002

Hey Saturn owners. I just bought a Saturn SL2 about 3 weeks ago. While I have no complaints with my OEM Affinity tires, I am thinking about replacing them. I think it is just the lack of goodwill associated with the Firestone name. I know the problems were with the truck tires; and, that there have been no problems with the Affinity passenger tire. How have you liked your Affinity tires? Have you replaced them--and if so, with what? Have you not even thought about it? I went to tirerack.com and read some posts from people about a couple of tires. Generally all bad reviews of the Affinity. The most popular tire Saturn SL2 owners bought to replace the Affinity tires was the Dunlop SP Sport A2. The reviews on that tire are great. I may go with them. Tirerack.com sells them for $55 each, but you have to get a shop to install them at about $20 each--plus shipping. Sears sells them for $80 each, so I may just go there. It may all be in my head, though. Any thoughts?

claywaterfill · March 2002

I can't believe how little interest there is in Saturn around here!

I guess I will keep the tires. I went out over the weekend and tried to make them squeal or slide in turns (not in heavy traffic), and they would not. Maybe the Affinity is a good tire for the size and weight of the Saturn SL class.

birdman579 · March 2002

My 93 SL2 originally came Firehawk FTX02 tires. They were very sticky, but also rough riding. Snow/wet traction was decent. At 45K miles, they were replaced with Affinitys. I was extremely disappointed and can't believe Saturn now sells new models with them. They have zero grip, squeal at every turn, and have no wet/snow traction. The backend was always sliding out unexpectedly. This would happen while traveling on straight, flat roads at low speed. After an accident that I spun out and broke my front and rear knuckle joints, I decided it was time for a change to something better. A bulge also appeared on one of the sidewalls. When I made my way to the Firestone dealer, they inspected all 4 tires and said they were all dry-rotting. They only had 60K miles on them and are guaranteed for 80K miles. I got $75 towards my new tires. A set of Firestone SS20s ($250 installed for all 4). They are dramatically better in all road conditions. Dry cornering is great, but more importantly wet/snow grip is light years ahead of the Affinitys. I would never want to drive another car with Affinitys.

tomcat630 · March 2002

Next week the 2003 Ion is unveiled, can't wait.

Then it's bye-bye S!

evildead2 · March 2002

My 97 Saturn SL1 Has been a great car for the 2 1/2 years and 70,000+ miles i have owned it just recently it has begun stuttering and hesitating while driving, it happens the most when accelerating but sometimes when just crusing also.
Ive tried several remedies including having the fuel injectors cleaned and changing the spark plugs, but nothing seems to help. If anyone can help me please let me know!

Thanks
Evildead2

birdman579 · March 2002

In the past few weeks, my timing chain has become somewhat loud. You can hear it while the car is idling. The dealer told me this shouldn't be a problem and to make sure the oil level is always full. The engine also occasionally (once a week) will run rough for a few seconds while waiting at a light. I'm thinking this might be related to my bad spark plug wires.

ochssk · March 2002

Our '95 Saturn SL2 had stuttering problems and started stalling at traffic lights. After searching a few forums I found out Saturn has some problems with ERG valves. I had Saturn replace the ERG valve and haven't had a problem since.

jpelder · March 2002

I agree...most likely it's either bad plug wires or the EGR valve.

alternator · April 2002

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2002/newyork/highlights/h04-saturn-ion.html

claywaterfill · April 2002

I had my 1999 SL2 serviced at Saturn of Gwinnett in Duluth, Ga Monday. They changed the oil, replaced the wiper blades, inspected the brakes, adjusted the parking brake, washed the car and had me out the door in 45 minutes. That's pretty good in my book. Saturns may not be the most exciting cars on the road, but the dealerships show why people buy them!

piscesdiva · April 2002

Clay, that's good news to hear...I close to hitting my 3000 mark (ALREADY!) and will need to go for a change! Glad to know that the service extends itself beyond the delivery!!!!

seattlenative · April 2002

Saturn has just released a tiny number (1,000 cars?) of SL Special Edition sedans, which are the base model 5-speed SL with air conditioning in a very pretty metallic blue. I stumbled onto one of these by accident at my local Saturn store, they state this is the only one they will receive from Spring Hill.

The clincher with the SL Special Edition is Saturn is selling these for a price $2000 below the standard price for the base SL (although you cannot get the 0% financing promotion). I made an offer to buy the one they have, and they will have it prepped up today. It will replace my 1995 white SL which has almost 180k on it.

Besides noticing that the newer SL has power steering and a drivers-side mirror, I notice the ride quality is smoother and the interior noise is substantially quieter than my 1995 which is still in good shape.

Is there any reason I should NOT buy the 2002 SL Special Edition as a reliable daily-driver commuting car?

seattlenative · April 2002

Are there other high-odometer Saturn owners in this group? I am the original owner of a 1995 SL 5-speed and have driven it almost 180,000 miles with relatively few problems. Although I may be buying a new Saturn, I may be keeping my 95 SL for a while longer as it still drives well although it's noticeably noisier than the newer SL sedans.

My 95 has had a few glitches (like the passenger-side seatback anchor failing, needing a $200 repair, and the oft-cited problem of leaking oil gasket seals) but this has been a very dependable, economical, safe and high quality vehicle overall. Any thoughts out here?

seattlenative · April 2002

The Saturn SL/SL1 from the early-to-mid 1990s used a somewhat obscure tire size, 175/70 R14. The original tires were Firestone FR480s, which were basically competent and quiet, adequate but not fantastic in wet weather traction and snow/ice. I did drive them 84,000 miles and they still had adequate tread, so they were surprisingly durable.

The replacements I selected were Toyo 800 Ultras, and I heartily recommend them. These are not heavily advertised products, but on the small 1995 Saturn (with limited sound insulation) the Toyos provided about a 6-db reduction in road noise compared with the Firestones, generally better roadholding and cornering, noticeably improved braking, and dramatically improved driving in rainy conditions. I had some exceptionally positive experiences driving the Toyo 800 Ultras through snow and ice conditions, they are in my view a genuine "all season tire", not just "kinda-sorta all season".

One caution though: DO NOT substitute a different tire size for the 175/70 R14 on the mid-90s SLs. If you use a 185/70 R14, the front tires may produce a low-level audible scraping against one of the pieces of the tire wheel well when you execute sharp turns, and your tires will wear excessively. Insist on the exact 175/70 R14 tire size even if it means shopping around for a tire store that carries this size.

Fortunately my Toyo dealer (Les Schwab) was very cheerful about giving me full credit for the incorrect tire sizing and giving me the correct size. My present Toyo 800s have given me excellent performance for 90,000 miles and there's still enough tread for about 5,000 to 10,000 more good miles if I want.

claywaterfill · April 2002

It sounds like you answered your own question. I can't think of a reason NOT to buy this SL you are looking at. You are correct about the noise as it was 1998, I believe, when they changed the engine; and, they upgraded the sound insulation in 1999. The newer ones will be much better in this regard.

300silverbulit · April 2002

sounds like a very good deal.

My 94' SL2 auto has 119,000 miles on it. I bought it in 98' with 58,000 miles on it.

it has needed alot of work but runs well and handles great and the polymer body looks fantastic for a 8 year ols car.

Alot of the problems with my SL2 have been fixed since 94' by Saturn. After 12 years they should have the SL perfected by now.

I wan't to replace mine in the fall/winter. I wan't to wait for the ION to come out. But I am keeping my options open. I don't wan't another SL just because I wan't a change. I am just hoping my A/C last thru this summer!!

My saturn dealer already told me my lower front control arms are loose and it won't pass state inspection when due in Novemeber. Dealer cost to replace them is $600!

It's been a decent car but....has needed a ton of work to keep it going. Since I got it with 58k miles.

New altenator, top engine mount, engine temp sensor, struts (all four), muffler & hanger, water pump,serpetine belt & tensioner.
And it is starting to use more and more oil.

The repair cost have been off set by the low insurance cost though. we have the highest insurance rates in the country here in NJ. Proably due to the most people per square mile of any state in the union and the most lawyers per square mile!!

seattlenative · April 2002

From what I have gathered from prior messages, the timing chains generally last as long as (or longer than) the engine, but there may be a timing chain control arm or tensioner that wears out and causes excessive noise.

My 95 SL (with almost 180,000 miles) tends to make a knocking-like sound under hard acceleration, and it doesn't seem to relate to gasoline at one time I tried using mainly premium gas in my car, it made a minor difference. A Saturn tech says it's the timing chain but his estimate for the repair work is around $700, mainly in terms of labor. I do have a reputable independent shop which could do the work, but want to know what others' experience has been related to Saturn timing chains.

seattlenative · April 2002

I'm surprised your 94 SL2 has required as much servicing as it has. Maybe it was abused by the previous owner/drivers.

I've had slow oil consumption problems from the gasket seals ever since the car was new, and the Saturn facilities kept claiming that was a normal consumption level. It is my understanding that if I had been more assertive during the warranty period (i.e. gone through the complaint process) it might well have been remedied, and I understand newer Saturns have improved gasket sealants.

My car has the original struts, original alternator, original exhaust system including muffler and hanger. I've had to replace the water pump at 140,000 miles, the serpentine belt & tensioner at 170,000 miles, the battery at 120,000 miles, the clutch at 100,000 miles, the engine temp sensor at 155,000 miles.

It's been a VERY reliable car, overall. Maybe that's an advantage of having bought it brand-new, in that I wasn't inheriting a previous drivers' erratic or careless driving and usage style on the car.

Cheers! Seattlenative

seattlenative · April 2002

A few months ago, the latch assembly for the passenger-side front seat started failing, not properly locking into place and intermittently falling backwards when a passenger sat in it.

A Saturn facility replaced the ratchet assemblies for a cost of $197. I now have learned there may have been a recall (or a technical service bulletin) on certain 94 and 95 Saturn SLs for this issue. Is there any way to find out if my car's VIN is included in the recall series, and if so to obtain a refund if this was a repair included in the recall?

That was the only other really major complaint about my history with my 95 SL.

300silverbulit · April 2002

Recalls are more important. They have to be fixed by Saturn, at no charge to the owner of that vehicle that is affected. TSB's are a big gray area. Some dealers may inform and have the work done for you, others not.

I was surprised at all the work my SL2 needed also. I have taken it back to my dealer every 3,000 miles for service letting them do pretty much whatever they thought was needed. i bought it as a used certified saturn from my dealer. it came with a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty from Saturn. The altenator went out during warranty but everything else went within the last year.

Luck of the draw I guess. It still has a fun to drive aspect to it though. Proably more than other compacts from 1994. With all the work it's had it is running smoother then ever before but having it since 98' I am ready for a change.

As for recalls check with the NHSTA. They have a website but I don't know the address.

alternator · April 2002

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/

jeff186 · April 2002

Yes, I got suckered in by the cheap monthly lease deal, $0 down. Thought this car would be a good around town grocery-getter and occasional highway ride. I was wrong. Slow off the line around town and rattle-y interior. As for the highway, the buzzing of the engine is constant and annoying. A huge dissapointment. I should have had the guts to negotiate for a Sentra or Corolla.

seattlenative · April 2002

Jeff186: which Saturn model did you buy? Is it a 5-speed manual or an automatic?

seattlenative · April 2002

In previous years, the Saturn S-series earned very high marks for product quality and new-car freedom from defcts (i.e. JD Powers Index) but doesn't show up as high now. Any comments on Saturn's quality control on current or recent S-series cars?

hpulley4 · April 2002

Are just technical service bulletins which tell techs how to fix common problems. If they occur while under warranty and are a warranty covered item, then they will be covered. Not all cars are affected by problems in TSBs so there is no recall and there is no reason for your car to be checked for them unless there are symptoms of a problem.

Problems which are deemed dangerous or very common will end up as a recall in which case all affected vehicle owners must be notified.

There is no grey area. TSBs are just helpful fixit hints.

claywaterfill · April 2002

I'm assuming you have a SL1 with automatic to feel this way. The SL1 does seem pretty weak with the automatic, IMO. I'm sure you would have better feelings had you bought a manual transmission or SL2. My manual tranny SL2 is plenty peppy for "grocery getting." Sorry you are unhapy.

jeff186 · April 2002

the engine is anemic, though I knew it was 100HP going in and more modern cars in this category have 130-140 HP. Just drove a Sentra GXE and the difference is amazing. Sigh...only 37 more months to go.

hpulley4 · April 2002

The S series has a history of oil consumption in the 1.9L engine. Can any owners of recent S-series comment on whether the issue is still there? I was hoping the ION would be a good car this fall but it is almost as big as an L-series and has funny centre instrument panel, non-independent rear suspension, etc. so now I'm thinking an SL2 might be a better choice, as well as a better buy with rates being good right now. My main concern is that the car might still have the oil consumption problem -- I guess I could lease it. Any comments appreciated!

300silverbulit · April 2002

Saturn is starting to toss out equipment packages on the S series in it's swan song.
The 2002 I drove for a day while my L300 was getting the oil cooler coolant leak fixed. Was a much smoother engine than my 94 SL2. It diddn't have the performance/normal switch on the automatic like mine does which does do alot for quicker throttle response. Actually I notice a big diffrence. I do use oil in the SL2 but I just add a 1/3 of a quart usually on fridays just to make it a habit so I don't let it go to long. But I drive alot each week.

As for the single cam engine with auto. We took a bath when we traded in our SW1 for a L300 but the power of the V6 L is fantastic. I am never at a loss for power in any driving situation.

With the SW1 you got going ok but once we had to slow down , then get back on it it just made noise. it was downright dangerous, we just couldn't live with that car anymore although it was very reliable.

hpulley4 · April 2002

or SL1. Even with a manual tranny, a friend has a 5-speed LW1 and I find it noisy and it doesn't have the performance I want. If I get an S-series it'll be an SL2 DOHC 5-speed.

claywaterfill · April 2002

Good choice. I have a 5 speed SL2 and it is fine. You're not going to win any drag races, but you move around town more than adequately, IMO. Mine is a 1999 model with almost 48,000 miles--and I burn no oil. I check it every other fill up, and the dipstick always says it's full.

danili19 · April 2002

Hey everyone, I have a '96 SL2 5-spd. with around 84k. I bought the car last May and have had numerous problems with it since. I'll try to keep this short..I'm just trying to see if these are common problems, and exactly what they might be. I put in an aftermarket intake mf'd by Hotshot for SPS (saturn performance specialists) and it's awesome. BUT, my car eats through a quart of oil just about every 1200-1400 miles now. Before, it'd be half a quart low at oil changes, and I don't drive my car hard or ever bring it past 6100rpm. Also, in warm weather, there's a squeal coming from a belt, I'd imagine. I had the drivebelt and drivebelt tensioner replaced 10k ago, so do you have any idea what it might be?? Also, if I try to accelerate quickly in anything but 1st gear (once already in motion), there's a muted 'tapping' sound that sounds like it's coming from under the hood or the driveaxle. I hope it's not the pistons....anyway, any advice? Similar prob's? Thanks!

Saturn S-Series

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