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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The diesel and hybrid discussion is better placed on the News & Views board and/or the Hybrids board.

    We need to get back to the broader subject of the High End marques. And it would be reaaally nice if we could talk about some of the really high end marques instead of just the two maufacturers we get so stuck on in here ...
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I also really would like to read what those that had experience with really high end cars would have to say.....I am unfortunately afraid that there are so few of them that we won`t read much......I am in the process of possibly getting an Audi 8 that I will report on when I have something to contribute, but it is not that `high end`, although for me it is very high end... Just think the Lexus , BMW, Jaguar, and Mercedes really represent the vast majority of the luxury cars that individuals purchase. I would think that the people are pretty smart in that regard as the dealer network has to be in place for when things go wrong.....I am a bit concerned going the Audi route as the dealerships have been far and few between....I did think of Bentley but it would just be `brutal` when small pebbles , or blowing sand after a snow storm, marred such a beautiful car...Also the cost of fixing anything would be exorbitant... Many month ago on the Lexus discussion I related how our driving habits have changed so much that the really luxurious cars are not really adaptible to this modern world..It would be too expensive to drive a two hundred thousand dollar car on a long road trip, therefore on the road you rarely see one other than near the ``Large Expensive Cities` .Never the less I still thought about it....Tony
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Tony,

    Interesting post. What is the number or reference to your earlier post on US driving habits on the Lexus board. I'd like to read it.

    One reason why you don't see many very high end cars on the road is that these are the couple's third or fourth car and they get driven only on weekends while at their country place. They just aren't taken on long road trips for a variety of reasons although I don't think cost is one. This summer I did though see a Maybach with NY plates parked in front of the Ritz in Montreal while the owners checked in. The four digit, low mileage on three and four year old very high end cars amazes me.

    I have a theory about the ownership of very high end cars that I'd like to try out. By the time someone can realistically shop for a very high end car (i.e., above 200K), that purchase is probably competing with a light twin plane, a sport fishing boat, or even the second vacation home. IMHO people with the means to buy an above 200K car are not the motorheads like us or that they perhaps once were. They have moved on to bigger and better toys. (The reason for the 200K cutoff is that it strikes me that a moderately successful working couple--maybe a JD/MD, DDS/CPA, anyone really who files a joint return north of 180K-- could scrape up the money to get into a Bentley Continental or a MB S and use it as a daily driver.)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Block Island guy - I know several people worth $100mln+ and none have a high end car beyond the class we talk about here. The reason - in at least two of the people I know in that class is that it is a total waste and one more thing to take care of - in their opinion. As well a real high end car will depreciate rapidly whether driven or not. These people are much more into second and tirtiary lux homes and the travel to get them there - one has a gorgeous second home in Nantucket and a third in the Turk and Caicos for example. Thus the interest is greater in flying planes or more accurately into buying flight time on private jets - usually the highest class possible. The reason of course is the luxury of flying to and from their vacation homes and other vacations around the world as well as the luxury of flying on business without all the nuanaces of security checks on commercial flights. They also much rather buy an expensive yacht than a Rolls. You could argue that they can do all of this but they also have estate planning as well as wanting to maintain a large stockpile of cash for business opportunities. My opinion - the people that buy very expensive high end cars are the people that inherit money much more so than the people that earn the money.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I know one guy in my town with the money for the mega lux class. He would rather spend his money on sports cars than luxury limos. He has a 996 model 911 GT2, a BMW Z8, and a 360 Modena. I think "car guys" with money are not interested in Maybachs, RRs, or Bentleys (except maybe the Continental GT).
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Many years ago I had a summer job just out of high school working for someone with very high powered job. He had a 5th Avenue apartment, home in Bronxville and a full-time chauffeur. His car was a low-level Dodge, I forget the model. You would think the guy was a nasty skinflint but quite the contrary. He was a gentleman, compassionate, treating the employees quite well. He was just a shy frugal person who insisted on keeping a low profile. And in his position and level of fame he could have had a ton of limelight. I do however remember feeling cheated by that friggin’ Dodge.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    The chauffeur must have loved driving around that Dodge (Stratus/Neon?).... hehe...
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Agreed.

    The people in Lambos are often trustfunders.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    Those Econo boxes sure can be fun to drive. I took delivery of my Corolla two days ago. It's a nice enough car. I sure can't complain about the gas mileage. Sure it lacks the power and comfort of my LS400 and 430 but hey, it's easier to drive around town.
    My Lexus dealer is really starting to get on my nerves. As some of you know, they billed me $2100 to repair the front suspension. They didn't fix the problem, (Creaking when manuvering at low speeds) and now I'm getting the royal run-around trying to get it back in and fixed at their expense. I refuse to be billed for taking the suspension apart again and realigning it. I think it would be fair to pay for parts. I told them I want a diagnostic approach taken...Without a doubt you'll find plenty of things to replace on an old car, but is it relevant to the problem?
    Replacing parts blindly isn't going to do it!
    I left the service manager a message today. If he doesn't get back to me, I'll have the credit card company halt the $2100 payment, and file a complaint with the Mass Attorney General's office. It isn't so much the bill (I told them to fix it properly no matter the cost the first time!) it's the shoddy service I've received that's making me angry..How has everyone else dealt with these sort of behavior from their dealers?

    SV
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    We can state the name of dealerships in these forums, right? Just not salespeople? If so, SV, just wondering what dealership are you dealing with...
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    I would almost bet that guy is driving a Lexus today....
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    The dealer is Lexus of Watertown in MA...I just got off the phone with the Lexus Corporate Folks...As usual they want to "mediate.." I told them I plan on taking legal action if they don't resolve it on their own. Here's the whole history:
    The car was hit in an accident two years ago. The Insurance company paid over $6K to fix it..The majority of the damage was on the Left Front. They replaced the entire LF Suspension Assembly and Lower Ball joints on both sides. Ever since then it has been making this Creaking noise when you make turns at low speeds. (Say about 10-15 MPH) I took it back to Lexus and they replaced the front bushings. Then I took it back again and they said it needed Strut Rod Bushings. I declined the repair as I was heading to London, so I didn't need the car..

    So a few weeks ago, I sent it in to get this done...I get a call from the dealership saying it needed $4K in work, mainly suspension. Some of you may remember my very annoyed post at the time...So I went to the dealership and spoke to the mechanic. He also seemed to be at odds with the amount of work the Service Advisor said it needed...

    He denied the Strut Rod Bushings needed replacement and told me the RF Upper Control Arms were the issue. In fact he insisted, it was a safety issue. This time I even took him on a test drive and was able to duplicate the problem...Low and behold I pick it up four days later and it's STILL making the same noise. I was especially ticked off with the service consultant who seemed to take issue with my questioning her estimates. Today was the last straw..I called them on Friday telling them to pick up the car and diagnose it..The Asst Service Manager (Who is a great guy) told me it would be done on Monday. I call today and he's not there (Unavailable until Thursday) and no one seems to know what's going on...I've left messages with the Service Manager and General Manager of the Dealership...So far no returned calls...

    Can you believe this?!

    SV
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I`m sorry to say ``It is lost``....I did find out after trying to even search this board that Merc was the number three poster back in 1999, during the boom times....My what fun while it lasted.. Blockislandguy I do remember your thoughts about getting maybe a twoo thousand or two thousand one Bentley for around ninety thousand or so....In following that thought up it did become apparent to me that in that niche market the depreciation is really heavy...Some of those types of cars cost maybe three hundred thousand or more.....For me even if the car were to be down even alot more than ninety thousand I would not want to project that sort of thing...I guess I`m just oldfashoned in that way....I do love to think of things like that and also see other people enjoying themselves---And believe me when I am down in Miami---You see it all all the time and right up close...Up here in South Carolina, you see very little of anything (there is a Mayback parked a few blocks away on occasion)...As for the planes, the company has to own those, as they are mind boggeling so expensive....When I used it about a year ago, and only had to pay for fuel and pilots it cost twelve hundred to fly about three hundred miles and back..Now I bet it would cost fifteen hundred.....If you fill it up with people it is way cheaper per person, but just you and wife no way...Another thing about the plane is that it is most useful to go and come in one day..If you keep the pilots overnight that jumps the cost probably five to six hundred dollars...So say a person was going to their vacation home in the islands, a couple of thousand to get down and then a couple of more to come home....Now if you paid the deprecian and maintenance out of your pocket that may be one hundred thousand a quarter and no flying expense.....I`l leave the rest to your imagination..Tony
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    A reporter is looking to interview folks who recently bought, ordered, or are considering ordering an AWD BMW 5-Series, Cadillac STS4, Mercedes-Benz E350 4Matic, Audi A6 Quattro or Lexus GS300 AWD and is getting the car to replace an SUV. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, September 15, 2005 with your daytime contact information and the makes/models of the vehicles coming and going in your life at this time.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Tony - I forget the actual rates but it does go by plane type. One of the guys I know would spend about $200K a year on flight time and for that he got something like 125 hours a year if I remember right. They only count actual time in the air and not ground delays. On layovers, it's like limo service - if you go somewhere and layover for many days - say NY-Miami - you end up being charged for 8 hours (assuming 4 hours per round trip), as the plane has to come back to its home airport. But if they can pick someone up nearby you get creditted back pro-rata - ie maybe they could pick up someone in Orlando or Atlanta on the return. I flew on one of the planes once roundtrip into Sarasota and it was great. Plenty of food, including ability to custom order and a real luxury cabin. As well the trip was much quicker as this particular plane flew at 47,000 feet - similar to the Concord. You can really see the curvature of Earth at that height and the flight is super smooth as you are above virtually all turbulence. The mags that you get that are proprietary to the flight provider are loaded with the ultimate in luxury advertising. Funny, but the one I flew on had ads from MB, Lexus and BMW but I never saw a Maybach, Rolls or Bentley ad and I scanned through about 4 months of mags onboard. I also brought one home for my wife and quickly regretted that poor decision. You can imagine the jewelry and fashion ads in these mags. It made Architectual Digest look like a shabby magazine.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    SV, you didn't ask my advice, so forgive me. But go slow on stopping payment on the credit card. For the amount of money that is involved, the dealership will have to go after you and because it is over 2K in MA it won't be in small claims court where you could appear w/o a lawyer and informally present your case.

    As I think someone else has suggested, now is the time to either unload the beast or bring it to an independent to be fixed. It shouldn't be at a $95 +_ per hour big city dealer with service writers who, you guessed it, write.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    The last I heard on the time share jets or turbos is a one time payment of say three hundred thousand, and then a charge of eight hundred to sixteen hundred (for the faster palane) and you had to use say one hundred hours or something like that.....In my opinion those sort of charges can be used in a business, but if a person is earning a living it is hard to spend such an amount of money. I cant`e even spend the money for a first class ticket, so I`l see you all back in coach....It may be a poor experience back there but anyone can take it for a few hours...Then just take a nice shower and forget as soon as possible....I do think driving for eight hours is worse than coach, even in the highest luxury car... Those magazines can also make you feel extra poor., but the adds do let you dream for a little while Tony
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Tony - Just made roundtrip to South Carolina from New Jersey. I love to drive.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    blckislandguy,
    Thanks for the good advice...Here's another twist to the story..Last night I went over all of my service invoices..Last year I had the front stabilizer bar bushings replaced...Then I looked at my invoice/estimate from last week, which claims the same bushings are in need of replacement! These things have been replaced, and I'm 100% sure there is nothing wrong with them!

    This is fraud pure and simple...Also in the quote was a double billing of labor charges for the strut rod bushings and shocks..Both are included in 3 hrs of labor. The S/C charged me 3 hours for each. (I didn't have this done, but they've put it in writing). I'll consult with the MA Attorney General's office today..It's not an issue of money anymore, it's principle.

    It's not the car that's the issue. It's a simple creaking noise from the front end, which only started after it was in the accident..Seeing as Lexus of Watertown did all of the repairs, I'm going to hold them accountable to fix it. After spending $8,000 ($5K of insurance) I'm definitely not going to let them get away with it.

    I've given these fools 2 years to fix it. It's more of their incompetence than anything. I spoke with the service manager yesterday and they told me that they will have the shop foreman work on the car, and that I don't pay a dime in diagnosing costs. Sounds reasonably fair to me. But why should I trust them at this point? I'll have an independant such as Sears have a look and tell me what they think just to be sure.

    The reason for the Dealer Service is this: They know the car the best(Well they are supposed to..) and warranty their work for a year. When they mess up, I have plenty I can do about it..At a small independant what recourse do you have should they make a mistake? People at Sears will often say, "Dealer only" They don't even want to touch the car...Plus I had a great relationship with Lexus of Watertown for over 12 yrs..That's why I am so upset!

    SV
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If it were me, I would've gotten rid of the car as soon as insurance took care of the initial repairs. Cosmetic stuff sure, but structural damage, no, the car is gone. I went through a somewhat similar situation a long time ago, (a supposedly "fixed" car post accident keeps having problems) and I definitely would not want to go through it again.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Fraud is really hard to establish.....When I was looking for an old post I came across one of yours, that sort of stated you told the dealer to make your car right no matter what....I to have now learned to get an approximate price...I think lexusguy is giving you some good advice. And I to would suggest you put this behind you...Tony
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    Thanks for your posts...It's been the same problem ever since the accident. My issue is with the Lexus mechanics..I work in Engineering and we take a diagnostic approach rather than replace parts blindly..Most of my experience was in England, and we'd never replace parts without being 100% sure it was the problem. I'll have Sears look at it and tell me what they think is wrong with it. The frame is ok as far as I know.

    My view is that the Lexus dealer is responsible in a few ways...Two weeks ago I told them to have a look at the front end and tell me what's wrong with it..As you all know I got a laundry list of things. Where my anger comes from is that they wrote that the stabilizer bar bushings need to be replaced..Hmmm, considering it was just done last year, I have a hard time believeing that!! It also had double billings for labor on the Strut Rod bushings and Shock inserts...(The Service manager had already told me they're included in the same 3 hrs of labor!)

    My gut instinct tells me the Foreman of the Service Dept will likely figure it out..With all the pressure on them, I'm willing to bet they won't give it back until they are sure they've licked the problem..The issue here is merely $$$..I feel having spent a few thousand, they should diagnose at their expense, and replace the parts that only need it. Once they've figured out what part is at fault, I will happily pay for the replacement.

    They essentially want to do most of that, with the exception of charging me for replacing parts at will. I want a methodical approach taken here, with the least expensive parts replaced first. There isn't much left to replace at this point anyway!

    Thanks for letting me vent!
    SV
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    SV, please don't bring your Lexus to Sears for anything more than a DieHard. This is nutty.

    On the other hand, you could bring it to the biggest Sears on the North Shore (the Liberty Mall in Danvers?) and leave it out front with a For Sale sign. You'd be out of the car by 5PM.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah I doubt Sears would even look at it, and if they would, I dont think I'd want them to. Its time to say goodbye. The cost of your time and stress in this case is already much higher than is worthwhile for a 14 year old car with essentially no real value left. Make your dealership buy it, and let them explain the suspension problems to the next guy.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    It would seem to me that if you believe fraud has been comitted you should talk to the state attorney generals office or the state Consumer protection dept ...In fact you probably have a moral obligation to..

    It wouldn't cost you anything if "they" go after the dealer...

    Next possibility is the Local on air consumer protection guy...TV statations always seem to have one.

    Good Luck
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hey Everyone,
    Thanks so much for your responses. I talked to the Attorney General's office today about the whole issue. They think that a) I shouldn't pay for any further repairs b) That they may be able to get a partial refund for me.

    The dealer is supposed to call me tomorrow. Their initial offer of repairing on my dime was unacceptable. I think to repair at their cost would be fair. 10 years ago when they botched my 30K service on the same car, they refunded my money on the spot...When I bought a Pre Certified 98 LS with all sorts of issues, Lexus of Norwood fired the Salesman, Sales Manager and gave me a brand new '02 LS430 near cost. No other dealer was even willing to give me more than 5% off at the time. The reason for the firings was that they lied on a bunch of issues, and I caught them on paper doing it.

    Many of you have told me to sell the car and be done with it. I'd agree normally, but the car was a 50th birthday present for me from my wife. It was a big surprise as I'd never owned such an expensive car before..I'd wanted an LS but couldn't sum up the nerve to buy it..Even though she stole my new LS430 she loves that car. (Admittedly so do I)..Emotions make normally rational beings do strange things...What is driving me the most is the desire to teach them a lesson.

    SV
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    What is driving me the most is the desire to teach them a lesson.

    Sentimental reasons are hard to overcome, but don't forget that cars are machines, and they will break down someday and be undriveable.... Better to do it quick than prolong it and make it even harder to do. You will get over it if you give it up and get rid of it now. Just mho....
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    sv7887, if you are going to call anybody, call Channel 7. Their on-air consumer fraud lady (Victoria Block or is it Amaretta ....?) is a joy to watch.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    Thanks for all of your posts. This isn't about money or even the repairs (or lack of) anymore. It's about the principle of not cheating your clients, especially one who has bought five cars from your dealership..Besides, I'm semi-retired these days so it's not like I have anything better to do. (Sure feels good, no kids' college tutition to pay for, and the wife is at work all day) These sort of things don't annoy me, I actually enjoy it.

    I emailed Hank Phillipi Ryan at Channel 7..I haven't heard anything yet, but I bet she gets tons of emails like this everyday. I confirmed with an independant mechanic that the stabilizer bushings were practically new and that nothing was wrong with them. He's a suspension expert, and did put his opinion on paper...Now I've got them lying in writing. I'll push for a resolution like the one I got at Lexus of Norwood. In that case, they made a big mistake but at least made amends for it.
    This is turning into quite the soap opera. Entertaining though..I talked to the Better Business Bureau. They had a claim filed against them a few months ago, and did settle it to the customer's satisfaction. Like Lexus of Norwood, they were foolish enough to put their lying in writing...I bet they'll rush to settle this one.

    SV
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    You wouldn't be the first to get a recommendation that (blank) needs replacing (even though it's brand new).

    I saw a thing on TV a few years back (one of those Buyer Beware on local news) where a person with a hidden camera brought a car into an independent garage for just an oil change... The trick was that the car had previously had most everything replaced prior to going. Of course, they came back with recommendations to replace this and that and the other thing on top of the oil change..... Then they had employees from some other garages speaking in anonymity saying that they are trained and instructed to do work in order to charge "X" amount more for each transaction above and beyond an oil change. Pretty ratty stuff.

    I had it happen to me back in 2001. Brought my then 2000 Maxima to a local garage for an oil change. They came back and told me my air filter was really dirty and needed to be replaced. I said, "Hmm, that's funny... I just had that replaced for my manufacturer's scheduled maintenence about 3000 miles ago.... An air filter should last longer than that, right?" All I got was a "Uhh, okay..." in reply.

    Good for you for not letting them walk all over you....
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    That reminds me of the Seinfeld episode about the auto mechanic. It can definitely be tough to find guys you can trust.
  • tiny1tiny1 Member Posts: 26
    Looking at a 2002 CLK 320 with 37K miles at $27k. Wondered if anyone had any experience (good or bad) with this car. I am more luxury than performance, but like a coupe design with the kids almost gone. I'm also 6"6" and find the CLK surprisingly roomy as the front seat goes back to the rear seat. I am prepared for higher and more frequent maintenance, but don't want a car that spends more time at the dealer than in my garage...My cap is approx $32K. Any experience or other recommendations? Thanks in advance...
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Has anybody seen the interior of the Toyota Crown? That thing rivals Maybach in ammenities. What do the Lexus models have that the Crown does not offer? The Crown has a refrigerator/cooler in the rear armrest, Mark Levinson, gorgeous wood trim, and even freakin fold-out-of-front-passenger-seat leather foot rests. :surprise: The Crown interior is by far one of the finest interiors I have EVER seen in a car. What gives?

    image

    I cannot post the pics of the other pics of the rear seats because a membership is needed to view pictures. This picture gives an idea however does not do the car justice.
  • gshocksvgshocksv Member Posts: 77
    Toyota is reserving the Crown for its own market, particularly for high ranking politicians and its royalties. It's got a twin V6, if one of the engine fails, the other one will keep the car running.

    I think they might have exported the Crown to a few other Asian countries (probably Hong Kong, they are also right hand drive).
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    '02-'04 MBs are the worst of the worst. Supposedly they are better for '05, but all the information so far is IQS. We wont really know until 2007 at the earliest whether or not the '05s will hold up. I'm not saying that every car is going to be a lemon, but if the risk of major electrical problems is 15-20% of cars, those are not good odds when the average '02 has less than 10%.

    What do you think about maybe a '00 or '01 Jaguar XK8? Very luxurious, plenty of legroom, reasonably good reliability, and you can get a low miles V8 convertible for $30K. Try getting a CLK430 cabrio for that price. Also, a Jag XK with the top down turns a lot of heads. A CLK does not. :)
  • dfc3dfc3 Member Posts: 87
    You could actually get a new C230 for that price, where I live - then unless its a lemon, you'd have low repair costs early on.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Right, but thats a small sedan with an even smaller 4 cylinder. Not exactly competition for the Jag.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi everyone,
    I couldn't help but notice the renewed talk of MB again...Their electronic gremlins is precisely why I passed on the S430 in December..I was worried that I'd be stranded at a very inopportune time. I'm glad I got my LS430 but would definitely consider the new S should it live up to Mercedes past reputation for durability.
    The Lexus dealer, having been clearly caught in the act, has volunteered to do the following things:
    a) Pick up the car from my house and take it to the dealer
    b) Diagnose it at their expense. The Shop Foreman will be exclusively working on the car
    c) Whatever repairs are needed will be done. The cost will deduct from the total $5000 I have spent. So hence I shouldn't have to pay anything unless the work exceeds $5000...Since the work is being done on their dime, I highly doubt this will occur.

    They'll get it on Tuesday. Hopefully they'll get it right this time.

    Thanks for all your posts,
    SV
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Autospies has a bunch of pictures from Frankfurt of Audi's new super sound system on display, including those spiffy pop up tweeters. I do have to say, it at least looks the part.

    http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=15095&galleryId=23

    http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=15092&galleryId=23

    http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=15103&galleryId=23

    http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=15104&galleryId=23

    http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/auto-show-photos.asp?imageId=15109&galleryId=23

    I'll definitely have to head to the Audi dealer once they've got A8s on the lot with this system
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    SV.

    Congradulations for hanging in there and getting these guys to do the right thing.

    I understand why you care so much about the car...

    Hopefully your hanging in there will help the rest of us and that dealer will be a little more carefull next time....YOU DID A PUBLIC SERVICE...THANKS.
  • tiny1tiny1 Member Posts: 26
    Thanks for the reply lexusguy. I thought the Jags were the absolute worst offenders in terms of long expensive stays in dealers garages. Jag seems to be taking big hits in the reliability arena in the press lately...I have two friends that have had engines replaced within a year of new purchase..Does the 00-01 XK escape this dark cloud? I agree it is arguably one of the best looking cars on the road....and I would jump at one if I thought it would be "reasonable" in terms of service. I'm also looking at a 01 BMW 740i Sport...Do you (or does anyone) have experience with the XK? I saw one last week and it did MY head...I would appreciate anyones thoughts as I'd prefer not to make a $30K mistake.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yes, there's a silver '00 Jag XKR in my garage. Its my third Jag convertible, my first was a '96 XJ-S. Since the Ford takeover, Jag reliability has steadily improved. My '96 wasn't terrible, but it wasnt that great, either. The problems it had were all electrical though, no major mechanical issues. My next car was a '98 XK8, which was much better. It also had some issues, but not nearly as much as the XJ-S. My current R has again improved a lot over the '98. The Jaguar AJ-V8 is used in the Lincoln LS, the S-type, the XJ, and the XK. I've not heard of any of them being plauged with engine failures. I know I've never had to replace any of mine.

    I own two Lexus cars and the Jag. The Jag cant come close to my wife's RX or my LS430 in terms of a spotless record, but compared to what I've been hearing from friends who have recent MB Es or SLs, its been fantastic. I think as long as you are very careful about making sure the car has been well cared for by its previous owner and is thoroughly checked before you buy, you should be ok.

    I wouldnt recommend the 740i, those are just as bad as the Benz. If you want a BMW, a 540i is a much better choice.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    "Jag seems to be taking big hits in the reliability arena in the press lately"

    Gee, I don't know what papers you read, but what I read is that Jag is something like Number 1 in its J D Powers category for initial quality, there is none of the chronic whining like there is with MB electrical problems, the i drive on the 7 Series, etc. etc. Jag seems to have its act together. The problem is that no one knows it because of lousy marketing and so sales are slow.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Is everything o.k in the luxury world? As Warren Buffet said `` It would be nice to see everyone liked their stock and there was no trading that day``..He was referring to the commissins that could be saved...Tony
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Alright, Tony blew the bugle, let’s see if this unit can get moving.

    I’ll respond with Porsche’s announcement that it will be developing its own hybrid system in partnership with VW which is slated for Cayenne 2010. As mentioned before I expect to see it in or at least considered for Panamera which, if executed properly, will be an awesome sports sedan to begin with. You won’t see hybrid in an early Panamera, but in the general scheme of things, I think they will need to put a lid on fleet emissions and fuel efficiency over the long run. And there has been speculation that Panamera will be the Cayenne sedan so I would think it adds up.

    One of the rags did a realistic rendering of the Panamera sketch released by Porsche. It has an elemental, rugged, down and dirty Porsche look to it. Low slung with the brake rotors and calipers bulging, kind of like a heavyweight boxer’s muscles when he’s dressed in a tuxedo, jacket off and slung over his shoulder. Among the elegant, gentlemanly vehicles in a high-end class that is mostly about business acumen and civilized luxury, Panamera will be like a young Mike Tyson showing up at the wedding.

    What I don’t understand is how Porsche will be able to finance development of both a hybrid system and new vehicle in Panamera, even if Panamera doesn’t have a hybrid version. They are still a small company and both these ventures seem high-ticket. Were the Boxster and especially Cayenne sales that good over the past 9 years to provide an ample piggy bank? Maybe the CFO of this thread, Ljflx, would be kind enough to share his wisdom and give an opinion. Get out of that bunk soldier!

    ;-)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I guess that means no deal with Toyota? Seems like everybody is less "optimistic" about clean diesel than they were last year. With even VW jumping on a hybrid motor, are there any "diesel fo' eva" hold outs left?
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    No details on the Porsche hybrid announcement other than a joint venture with VW. I guess that doesn’t rule out Toyota involvement though, or licensing some of the technology. I’m sure they would love to be able to do it without them but it seems like a mighty big mountain to climb especially in such a short time.

    Porsche could be on cloud-9 with all of the irons they have in the fire, like a rube who is still experiencing euphoria from hitting lotto (Cayenne). My sense is that they could be biting off more than they can chew. I would think Toyota could still wind up being their daddy on the hybrid account. Hopefully Porsche will come through.

    http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/13/Autos/hybrid_porsche_cayenne/
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    A reporter for an influential U.S. publication is working on a piece about Mercedes and would like to hear from consumers. He’s wondering whether the recent quality problems are enough to stop consumers from buying Mercedes in the future. He also cites that Mercedes says it has worked hard to fix the various problems and is producing the best quality cars ever. He’d especially appreciated hearing from any long-time Mercedes drivers around who agree or disagree. If you have a story to share, please respond to pr@edmunds.com with your daytime and evening contact info., city/state of residence and what models of Mercedes you own/have owned, no later than Weds., Sept. 28, 2005.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    After driving the lexus H I was impressed ....It is a small step forward, but I think the biggest savings comes when the car turns itself off at a stop light....My wife got the bmw instead of the Lexus, and although it is ten thousand dollars more(could have been five thousand) it gets about the same milage....I think when we get use to these high priced gallons of gas,people will not spring for the hybred unless the price come down sharply. For me the gallons saved are not enough to really make a difference if taken over a year..I know if I were to be thinking (dreaming) of a Porsche I would not want the extra weight.....When wwest didn`t flat out endorse the Lexus I thought there was something to re consider..Tony
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Designman - They are a very healthy company. Cash is about double debt and Net income has been growing nicely to about $800+mln after tax. Healthy balance sheet, growing earnings - I'm sure Porsche feels pretty good about themselves these days, on a roll and putting their nerdy/"purist" auto enthusiast fans further and further into the rear view mirror. A scrappy smaller guy like them finds ways to do things economically albeit with a lower risk/reward return. The more full lined they get the healthier the business is and the less dependent they are on the singular car line the puriusts want them to hold to.How do you do it - partnerships, tie in suppliers/developers/partners to future revenue share, keep projects lean and beauracracy free and then have a nice bonus system tied to milestones being met at budgeted cost. Result - things get done effectively and cheaply, everyone wins, initial profits are not as large as they could have been but long-term equity is noticably enhanced and you are in the game at a deeper level. The operational key past development stage is to utilize existing production and keep production quotas to a niche position as opposed to really competing with the heavy hitters - sought of the way Tampa Bay had the Yankees figured out this year.

    By the way - you've got to realize that many projects qupte a cost but it's not usually an incremental cost. Most of the time it's a reallocation of fixed or existing costs into one project. It's always overstated in Government spending. IE - they say the war in IRAQ costs X dollars per day, But 90% of those x dollars would have been spent anyway. We didn't add 150,000 new soldiers to foght that war. In the casr of cars I'll bet that one of the cost components is lost sales in the last "old" model year, and effecetively that is a real incremental cost. But typically that is made up with the surge of sales in the new model year.

    Now I have a separate problem. My wife loves the IS and my son wants it as his first car. Can I send you the bill?
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