Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

High End Luxury Cars

1…214215217219220…463

Comments

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    These are signs that BMW has been subsidizing leases; also at the root of why BMW financial statements starting to deteriorate.

    Leases are the root of deteriorating financial statements for BMW? Why do you spread such misinformation?

    Have you read the BMW press release for the reasons why the net profit dropped 6 %. Please refer to the press release and please stick to the facts please!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Don't you love it when people just spew random, inaccurate information?.... I love the internet!!!

    Unfortunately it is I who stands corrected. ljflx had more current information.

    BUT profit deterioration for the latest quarter is a industry phenemona that includes both Toyota and BMW!
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Have you read the press release for the reasons why the net profit dropped 6 %. Please refer to the press release and please stick to the facts please!

    We don't use facts here. Facts are forbidden.... :P

    So as I was saying earlier, have you heard about the crazy exploding engines in the Lexus GS?!?!?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    So as I was saying earlier, have you heard about the crazy exploding engines in the Lexus GS?!?!?

    Yeah I have heard about those exploding GS engines! But let me first refer to my creative writing class notes so I can elaborate further about those explosions ;)
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Thank you for illustrating my point. M5 is so unique and made in such small numbers that BMW can afford to restrict supply and force the market actually clear at MSRP. No lease subsidy required. MSRP $81k, 61% residue, and 0,00285 work out to be about $1250/mo. $540/mo (the monthly payment on a 2005 330ci today) is 43.2% of $1250/mo; 43.2% of $81k is only $35k! That's a close indication of the real market clearing value of a 2005 330ci convertible today.

    The point is not about lease per se, but a simple illsutration of the great distance some of the marques are going in order to maintain the illusion of selling a premium car at high prices (and cook the books at the same time).
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    to take the leasing discussions where they belong - see the search features on the left side of the page.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    BUT profit deterioration for the latest quarter is a industry phenemona that includes both Toyota and BMW!

    That is simply not correct. BMW profit declined for three quarters straight, but Toyota increased quarter after quarter, including the latest quarter:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9922145/

    That being said, I agree it is a tough market today to be a car maker. OTOH, it's always the tough markets that lead to major shifts in the industrial landscape; a bit like Darwinian evolution.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    That is simply not correct. BMW profit declined for three quarters straight, but Toyota increased quarter after quarter, including the latest quarter:

    So who is incorrect?? Why dont we look at the facts before we do name calling:

    WSJ.com dated November 5, 2005

    However, Toyota reported a decline in operating profit, a core measure that doesn't include one-time charges or tax considerations. Operating profit for the quarter was 404.3 billion yen, down 3.2% from 417.6 billion yen a year earlier. Toyota blamed the decline on hefty spending on research and development, new equipment and sales promotion.

    From the article you linked yourself from msnbc:

    Operating profit fell nearly 7 percent compared to the same period a year ago as higher material costs and the shift in demand to smaller cars with lower profit margins squeezed earnings.

    The Toyota profit that you are claiming went up includes one time charges/gains and tax effects . From a operating perspective these effects are irrelvent in relation to operating profits!

    BOTTOM LINE
    Operating profits for BMW and Toyota dropped during the last quarter!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    As opposed to say,
    GM and Ford's profits? Really, who has had a good year this year? DCX? IF so, only because their last one was so bad.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    OK, it's BIG decision time on this. Help me out. Dealer has an '06 Jaguar XJ Super V8 Portfolio and says I should get it before its gone. He says it's a rare chance. I was originally thinking about a loaded '06 XJ Vanden Plas. Then he showed me the Porfolio. Of course, it's gorgeous, but I don't really know if it's worth the giant price difference. Maybe it is, but maybe not. Also, he explained that Jaguar has new '05's at a fair discount, so these price differences become even more staggering . . . and confusing. Help me out here. Give me some feedback from experienced Jaguar folks. Thanks.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Be aware that Jaguars take monsterous depreciation hits in the first 2 years, a left over side effect from their junk days of the late 80s\early 90s. You can buy a low miles 2004 XJR for under $50K. Thats an almost 50% hit in just TWO years. A 2006 XJ VP will probably be worth maybe $45K two years from now. Jaguar dealers have tried to sell me on so called "exclusive" Jaguars before, such as the XKR Silverstone. Ultimately what you are paying for is some unique wood trim, and some big wheels. I've always bought my Jags at 3 years old, and let the original owner throw his money down the toilet.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I've seen 2005 XK Jags with less than 10k miles for 54-55k.

    These are 80k cars new. And that's what the dealer is selling them for. It's worth 48-50 on trade in.

    That's a 30k hit in less than a year.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah, the value of normally aspirated Jags drops like a ton of bricks. The R cars hold their value a little better, but still take a beating in the first 1-3 years. What's more, you can buy the fancy 20" wheels from Jag if you really want them, and the wheels will hold their value MUCH better than the actual special edition cars that come with them. I'd recommend against it though.. the huge wheels dont do much of anything in terms of handling, and they seriously beat you up when the road conditions are anything less than perfect, and the rubberband tires wear out in about a week and a half.
  • melmel2melmel2 Member Posts: 6
    Tagman, I think you should purchase the Portfolio because it's a rare opportunity and it's the most beautiful automobile on the road today. I especially like the car because it is 'eye candy' and it stands out more than anything from Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, and BMW. New XJ's have great reliability ratings (higher than European luxury sudans). Jaguar will rule the luxury automobile industry in 2006 and beyond.
  • mooseemoosee Member Posts: 22
    the 06's can and will be sold for a discount if there is stock, at the dealers, if only 1 or 2 at each the dealer the gross will stay up, on the 05 they(dealer) will not lose, you will have to check and see if there is any dealer cash, i dont no for sure but since ford owns them there is dealer cash(money for the dealer only not published) and that will only be true if there are alot of 05 untitled new on property, if they are used and, this means titled with miles from 10 to 20,000k go to black book and somewhere around loan value is fair. there is only one way to find out if there is dealer cash no some hungry fiance manger at dealership and they will let you know. remember go with gut
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Lexusguy, good idea. A good '04 XJ is now down around 40K. But, as you suggest, rather than buying a used '04 XJR for around 51K, buy the plain jane XJ for 40K and then buy the 20" Sepang wheels (a $4500 option on the XJ R Series) from the dealer and save big bucks. These Sepang wheels look great and are by BBS. You could probably even order them thru a BBS dealer. I suspect you are right about the deterioration in ride with the big sneakers.

    After you pick up the Sepang wheels, if you just have to have the XJR look on your XJ, there are people on the web who sell the mesh R style grille insert! When you are all done, put the money you saved in a gold fund and watch it grow.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Thanks for the PR puff piece. Curious, do you work for Jaguar? Last time I checked, Jaguar is not ruling anybody. They are giving away $7K or more on new cars, the highest incentives in the entire industry. Jaguar is struggling just to survive. They are a long way away from beating Lexus, Mercedes, or BMW.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    I did not engage in name-calling at all in the post that you were quoting; in fact, I kinda went out of my way to avoid adressing "you" when expressing my disagreement; using the word "you" only in the context of a point that we both did agree.

    "Operating profit" is one of those things that do not have uniformly regulated reporting procedure. The finances can be cooked every which way to make "operating profit" look however the company wants it to look, especially since the context seems to suggest that R&D and good-will are not amotized according to Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures. In any case, your original post said "profit" not "operating profit." BTW, I'm not even sure BMW is admitting to "operating profit" being down; like I said, one-time write-off can be a powerful tool for cooking books.

    Also, was just browsing some of the offers by High End Premium Marques, and noticed a most curious thing on MBUSA website: in the special offers section, besides MSRP, they also use "suggested dealer contribution" in the MBCredit offerings. That is indeed a funny term, after all MB is the manufacturer doing the suggesting, is it not?? What the heck does MSRP mean then if the manufacturer is also suggesting a lower number at the same time?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Brightness,

    you mention the following:

    In any case, your original post said "profit" not "operating profit."

    Why dont you read my prior posts before responding to them!

    My original post#11473 stated operating margins! I wrote the following:

    These are tough times in the auto market. Including for TMC which in its latest quarter saw decline in its operating margins !

    It appears you are completely ignorant in understanding that operating margins equals (operating profits/sales)!

    You also mention the following:

    BTW, I'm not even sure BMW is admitting to "operating profit" being down; like I said, one-time write-off can be a powerful tool for cooking books.

    LOL!!! First try to learn basic accounting before you accuse anyone of cooking books :D

    Happy Thanksgiving!
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    It appears you are completely ignorant in understanding that operating margins equals (operating profits/sales)!
    .....
    First try to learn basic accounting before you accuse anyone of cooking books...

    Namecalling and insults are totally uncalled for, dewey. They demean whatever argument you are trying to make. You will be better served simply making your point sans the other stuff you threw in above....
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm not even sure why this is an argument. The guy worried about BMW's balance sheet should be their CFO. Why do we even care? I thought this forum was supposed to be about the cars that BMW actually makes.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Lexusguy you are correct this discussion has sweved a bit off topic!

    OAC what I said was not meant as an insult! I myself am ignorant about many things and that is not a self-insult! Most smart people are ignorant about accounting terminology and that is not an insult.

    But if I boasted about the details of mechanical engineering without knowing what I am talking about then I would rightfully deserve to be called ignorant.
  • melmel2melmel2 Member Posts: 6
    Lexusguy, I wish I worked for Jaguar. I recommend everyone to visit prefergorgeous.com. The 2007 Jaguar XK is receiving outstanding reviews and it will sell like hot cakes. I think Jaguar will rule the luxury automobile industry because the company added a distinctive feature on the exterior of its automobiles for the 2006 and beyond models. The automobiles will be so distinctive than everything on the road.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    It appears you are completely ignorant

    Big words for someone who falsely accuse others of name-calling.

    For what it's worth, my post #11500 was a follow up reply to your post #11492, in which you stated:

    "BUT profit deterioration for the latest quarter is a industry phenemona that includes both Toyota and BMW!"

    That statement of yours is simply not correct because Toyota posted profit increase for the latest quarter. In fact, I quoted your above statement in my post. Your post #11473 had zilch to do with my post #11500.

    If you are not able to following threading of this forum and prefer to indulge in obfuscation and name-calling instead, you are only making a fool out of yourself.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Most smart people are ignorant about accounting terminology and that is not an insult.

    What terminology are you talking about? For crying out loud, I actually was an accounting minor. Are you talking about EBIT or EBITA?? Obviously from Toyota statement, they are not amortizing R&D or good-will in the "operating profit" number (taking a up-front hit instead). In any case, the statement of yours that I was correcting did not even have "operating profit" but instead you said Toyota profit was deteriorating (post #11492); that statement simply did not jive with facts.

    But if I boasted about the details of mechanical engineering without knowing what I am talking about then I would rightfully deserve to be called ignorant.

    I will refrain from this open invitation, for now ;-)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    That's enough squabbling - any of you who feel a need to continue your personal issues need to take it off-line.

    Does anyone want to get back to the cars?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    A article about the success of BMW sales!

    The CEO of BMW North American Operations is bewildered by his following observation :

    With costly gas and a hissing real-estate bubble, however, even Purves wonders why so many people are buying his company's expensive cars. "I'm confused at the moment about the economy,"

    BMW
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    The guy sounds like an idiot. Everyone is worrying about an overheated economy causing inflation and this guy is wondering why people are buying cars?? Does he even realize that Nadsaq, the Dow and the S&P are at the highest levels they've been at in 4 years?
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    I'm surely not an accountant but, if anyone wanted to compare two companies wouldn't analyzing cash flow give a much more unbiased report? Or, is EBITA the same as cash flow?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    No. Reason being is that nothing is equal in life. You can milk cash flow by not investing in the future. So if you go that route and look better in cash flow then another company that is investing than you are selling yourself short long-term. If you can get at it - the ultimate measure is cash flow from operations and that would exclude R&D costs. Ebita is not true cash flow as you can have both rising Ebita and rising receivables, meaning you are not seeing the cash (yet).

    If Toyota is saying their operating income was hindered a tad because of heavy r&d, it simply means they are being very conservative in their bookkeeping. They probably could have capitalized those costs and chose not to because of several reasons. Most likely they felt the top line growth was more than sufficient and that the stock would not suffer a hiccup - so let's get rid of the costs now. Another reason could be they wanted to be conservative in this day and age of companies improving P&L results by putting future risks in the Balance Sheet. More than likely it was a combo of both and you can bet your life that if the top line growth was absent or too slow, Toyota would have capitalized a lot more R&D costs rather tha write them off at inception. But with headlines everywhere that they are quickening their pace to number 1 global auto maker it is a great time to expense such costs rather than capitalize them into the Baance Sheet. Smart decision as it results on a very minor one time effect on earnings, in a period of solid growth, and during a period where it's stock is the highest priced auto stock in the world - trading at the highest multiple of earnings.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Does he even realize that Nadsaq, the Dow and the S&P are at the highest levels they've been at in 4 years?

    So is Purvey an idiot or genius for being worried while stock markets are humming along? In all honesty who knows, not even the Oracle of Omaha makes Index bets! But let us consider the following:

    The Dow Jones was hitting all time highs and the the Great Depression followed!

    The US stock indexes in the early 70s was doing wonderful primaily due to Nifty 50 stocks but was followed by a serious recession.

    And 2001 was a wonderful year to be in Nasdaq stocks and I guess you know the rest.

    OK since I made a promise on a prior post to focus on cars I have provided a link to a article on the luxury car market!

    Any luxury car executive who reads the the trends in the article should be worried!

    Worried You Bet!!!!
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Sorry Dewey - any exec who says hes surprised someone is buying his company's product is an idiot in my book. In a strong global economy he's an even bigger idiot. Stocks are trading at low multiples - your examples don't work in that situation. The S&P and nasdaq are trading at a fraction of the multiples they traded at in bubbles. They are actually too low which is why the rally has a lot of leg left in it.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Stocks are trading at low multiples - your examples don't work in that situation. The S&P and nasdaq are trading at a fraction of the multiples they traded at in bubbles. They are actually too low which is why the rally has a lot of leg left in it.

    I dont know what the markets will be in the future? In fact I dont really care! My daily focus is finding good individual stocks with a margin of safety and currently I am having the toughest time in my career finding such equities in the USA and Canada! IMO that to me does not indicate low markets in North America!

    I find your opinions interesting, but I guess we are both here to focus on car opinions.
  • greenbeltgreenbelt Member Posts: 55
    Since when?

    Everyone in the world of car manufacturing knows that higher quality and reliability go hand-in-hand and REDUCE costs.

    For example, rare leather hides mis-sewn into seats are indeed expensive but are a low quality product. It cost a lot to make them poorly, and even more to fix them later. The same is true product line wide, C, E, S, etc.

    Mercedes is in CYA mode as they spend the next decade trying to get anywhere close to Lexus quality and reliability, they are going to be much more friendly in their stores to their 'passionate' customers that spend a lot of time there. Guess where the funding for that 'attitude' change is coming from? Yep, 7% here, 5% there in new car prices.

    They have a huge hill to climb and they are also merchandising themselves far beyond likely performance.

    Clock's ticking, methinks.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Totally agree with you lg. Especially about buying 3 yr old Jags, and not with the rubberband tires, which are impossible to keep going, in my experience.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    What distinctive feature? I know the Portfolio has that little side vent (which, by the way, has been on the Range Rover for years) but I havent heard anything else about any kind of major styling changes, or any changes at all to the X, S, or XJ. I do like the new XK quite a bit, and I definitely plan to take a long look at a '07... in '10.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Mercedes is in CYA mode as they spend the next decade trying to get anywhere close to Lexus quality and reliability....

    They have a huge hill to climb and they are also merchandising themselves far beyond likely performance.

    Clock's ticking, methinks.

    Sssssshhhhhh !!!!! Be careful here...Before long you'd be accused of predicting MB's demise at a time they are undergoing a resurgence and revival in fortunes... Ticking clock on MB's watch ???? Forgetaboutit....

    Time is an enemy sometimes....
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    So, Mercedes sells more cars with poor quality because they have a HISTORY of selling great cars. Jaguar, on the other hand, struggles to get past the old reputation of unreliable cars, yet their cars today, on average, are more reliable than Mercedes, by a significant margin!!! Mercedes is fortunate to have that history, even if the cars it builds today have problems, because it gives them another chance to meet customers EXPECTATIONS. Jaguar, in contrast, is slowly overcoming a big hurdle. I really hope they pull it off. Their cars are freakin' gorgeous compared to Mercedes or just about anything for that matter.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    It takes a lot more than good looks to succeed in a brutal marketplace. The X-type is attractive, but its a lousy car. The public was not fooled into thinking that it is a "real" Jag. Ford is abandoning the plan to have Jag be a volume luxury car maker, and they are moving Volvo up into that space. They now want to position Jag against Bentley.. risky move.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    NEW DELHI -- The chairman of Toyota Motor Corp. Monday said companies in India and Thailand may soon overtake those in Japan because of their increasing focus on quality.

    "Thai and Indian companies are fast catching up. My fear is that Japan will soon be overcome by Thai and Indian companies," said Okuda Hiroshi...

    ...Indian firms are improving their standards. "I am aware of the excellent quality levels of Indian IT [information technology] and manufacturing companies. But, in the field of quality, Japan is standing still," said Mr. Hiroshi at an industry meeting.

    He said no Japanese company has recently won the Deming Prize, an award from the Union of Japanese Scientists and Engineers. Indian companies such as motorcycle and scooter maker TVS Motor Co. and Rane TRW Steering Systems Ltd. have won the prize.

    source WSJ online
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    I think many of you will find the below article interesting. For one thing, it shows the risk Toyota is facing as it ramps up worldwide production. But I also find it interesting to compare the Toyota execs' statements to the things said by MB execs when their reliability issues first started to get attention. As I recall, first it was denial, then blaming it simply on final inspection QC. It was quite a while before any mention was made of design or manufacturing defects.

    I don't even want to imagine a world in which Lexus quality falls to recent MB levels.... Maybe we will all be buying Korean (or Indian or Thai) luxo sedans.

    LA Times: Toyota Fretting Over Quality
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Arrogance and pride vs action steps and humility.
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    I remember when....

    IBM was 'so strong no other computer company can compete!'

    GM was 'driving all other car companies out of business!'

    Sears was 'pushing Main St stores into bankruptcy!'
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Yep, and now MB and Toyota are on the road to degradation. Next thing you know, Edmunds won’t appear on our computer screens and they’ll have to put us all in straight jackets, wheel us off to institutions to deal with our chat-room addiction and withdrawal. Maybe we’ll all meet at the same place and they'll observe us as we argue in circles. Hopefully most of us will finally be cured and on our merry ol’ way.

    You see, the world is a strange but good place, and things have a way of working out.

    ;-)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Things change when companies make serious mistakes. The downfall of IBM and GM rests squarely on the shoulders of the top brass. One of the recent big mistakes from IBM was their cover up of the failure rates for their "Deathstar" Deskstar hard drives. The drives failed at 10x the usual industry rate, and internal memos were leaked stating that failed drives should be put back out in the marketplace. That move eventually meant the sale of their entire hdd business to Hitachi a few years ago.

    Toyota obviously saw what happened to VW and M-B when they lost focus and let their quality drop off the map. You dont want to wait until your customers are leaving you in droves before you decide, hey, now might be a good time to maybe think about why our cars are falling apart.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Could it be that Toyota feels a cushion in relation to the competition and is becoming less stringent in order to squeeze profit in other ways?

    I suppose Ljflx will have a totally sober and rational answer to my query ;-)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Actually, IBM had no competition until the original and successful line of Compaq computers came along. Later, the "Deathstar" problem was serious enough, but IBM smartly moved into corporate servers, and then Sun, Dell, and even HP have taken share. It's COMPETITION that builds a better (or sometimes cheaper, or both) mousetrap that usually causes the downfall. GM has been a poor competitor. They just plain do not get it. I'll bet that TOYOTA does very well for a very long time. Their long range plans for quality vehicles that produce incredible performance and fuel economy is going to be hard to beat. Often, people will suck up vehicles that have much poorer quality issues than Toyota. For example, Land Rover has increased sales with attractive new body styles, but reliability still stinks. Toyota may have slipped a bit, but they are still king of the reliability hill by comparison to most of the others. Personally, I don't mind a few issues on a vehicle if I really love it. Mercedes folks have been proving that quite a bit recently.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    It's insignificant and they are taking steps to correct it immediately. The solution is simple - they know how to core an apple - the old fashioned way and the new way - even in front of TV land.

    Seriously - Growth for an emerging company is dangerous - witness People's Express. That's why they failed - too much too soon and a violation of their initial business plan. Growth for a large well established company like Toyota is quite manageable - but always comes with a hiccup or two. In the case of MB they actually violated their core business principles by going boutique to mass manufacturer with too many strategies at the same time. Issues were everywhere - from lowering price (and prestige) to big increases in production to trying to lead in electronics as opposed to their real strength in engineering to taking over a larger car builder, to trying to create a new super brand in the Maybach and then the ace of aces - backing Mitsubishi. Add in something we don't see on this side of the Atlantic - Smart - and you have a recipe for a big dip. I lose track of the pitfalls that they set up for themselves but they most certainly hit every one of them pretty hard. Simply put - they were experts at coring a small Apple but coring that big Apple needed better equipment.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Just traded out of my Sequoia and into an LX470.

    The search took me almost a year. Why ? I found out that the LX is so hard to depreciate in value. This is a truck that has the smallest HP of the lot, it can barely sit 7 people, unlike its competition, it has been in the same skin, more or less for a decade, yet it still sells briskly, and it holds real strong in the resale market. So what's the point ? Lexus/Toyota's strong reputation of quality and reliability even when the car/truck isn't the most pleasing to the eye, the most powerful, or the biggest/baddest says a lot about the company. So it makes the most sense that when a chink appears in this strength, Toyota must deal with it promptly. As the adage goes: "A stitch in time saves nine", Toyota is addressing their problems head-on without hiding behind a facade of denials and head-buried-in-sand, unlike some other car brand we dare not mention.

    Reminds me of an article back in 2000 when GM proudly announced that they have plans for a hydrogen-powered car by 2010, while scoffing at a gas-hybrid vision from Toyota. Then, industry experts noted the challenge for GM/s ambitious H2-powered plan, and almost unanimously agreed that it would be impossible to achieve in that timeline.

    The first H2-powered street car in the US, a Honda Civic, is owned by a California dude. Cost of $1 million. Honda came out with one ahead of GM. Would the H2-powered car truly take hold ? A very difficult challenge indeed !!! In the interim, Toyota is enjoying a huge boom in business with visionary leadership in hybrid tech as gasoline demand soars globally, unlike the clowns that ran GM to oblivion.

    Sad...
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Actually the classic Toyota 4.7 engine has always been much faster than its numbers suggest, especially when it was rated at just 235hp (its something like 275 now). Not much horsepower, but boatloads of torque. The LX\TLC is not new, but its been rated many times as one of the best SUVs of any type on the market.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles