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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Why did Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc create a luxury unit if people who buys them are looking for VALUE ?

    Your value arguments are perfect in describing someone who buys a Lexus RX330 versus a Toyota Highlander or a Audi A3 2.0t versus the upcoming VW GTI. A3 2.0t and RX330 are catered to buyers who seek luxury. While Toyota and VW are catered to practical buyers who seek value.

    Your value arguments are a bit of a stretch when applied to cars with different platforms like the V6 Altima versus a Infiniti G35 or a Toyota Avalon versus a Lexus IS.

    As hard as it may be to believe but there are a great many buyers who buy premium marques because of the way they are engineered and not mainly because of image/luxury.(Although I dont have a survey to prove my last point)

    To quote the famous American philospher named Designman... "nuff said"
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Although mergers and acquisitions in the car industry usually end up in a scrap heap, a Porsche-Saab combo could be very interesting.

    As long as Porsche is focused on making exciting sports cars they will not be abandoned by sports car buyers. And as far as I know the sports car buyer will never be extinct as long as there are people who are andrenalin-driven.

    Porsche's past problems were mainly due to the 924/944 and 928. These cars alienated a large number of traditional Porsche buyers.

    There is nothing wrong with being a very profitable niche player. In fact there are advantages in being a unique niche player in a consolidated auto industry that produces a lot of look-a-like engineering and styling.

    blckislandguy you stated the following:

    Now fully half the sales are the Cayenne and they are doing well.

    Cayenne sales have lately been diving. IMHO the rebadged engineering of the V6 VW Cayenne is a joke!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    ctsang,
    All I get from this is that you are from HK, brag that you are rich and hang around with billionaires, and prefer your Lexus to the other high-end marques that you also own. You do admit that you OWN the European marques, so it would be logical to consider that there must be something about the Euro marques that appealed to you enough to purchase them, and keep them, since you claim they are in the shop so often. Tell us what you like about the Euro marques you own.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A reporter is looking for a former Volkswagen fan who has given up on them in favor of other brands in the last couple years. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, December 22, 2005. Be sure to include your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    whatever.... Tired of repeating myself ...
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    Wow, autos made in Thailand and India are better than those from Germany. I can't wait to buy those vehicles. I bet they will be cheaper than MB and BMW. I wonder what those Germancarfans think.
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    "As hard as it may be to believe but there are a great many buyers who buy premium marques because of the way they are engineered and not mainly because of image/luxury.(Although I dont have a survey to prove my last point) "

    My friend, most people who buy those premium marques because they want to show off, not becuase of engineering. Most those owners don't know a lot about engineering. They are usually in business.
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    As I said, I bought those Euro marques to show off.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I wonder what those Germancarfans think.

    I know I have not slept a wink these past two years thinking about it.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Most those owners don't know a lot about engineering. They are usually in business

    That may certainly be the case for the people you know!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    autos made in Thailand and India are better than those from Germany. I can't wait to buy those vehicles.

    As I said, I bought those Euro marques to show off.

    All I can say is . . . enjoy your new vehicle from INDIA that you say will be better than a German car.
    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    I'm speechless, and can only imagine how merc1 would reply to those comments.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Are we having a respectful discussion of the marques and the cars that belong in this genre or not??

    Lately it seems "or not" is the answer ... and some of you should beware of the trolls ...
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Nothing at all to do with status.
    I don't consider myself a 545 type of guy.
    However, the 545 was being offered at only 2.4% Interest on a 3 year lease.
    A 2006 330i was being offered for only about $50 a month less.
    The 545 I got can be had for about 60k. The 330i I would want would go for about 43k.
    I jumped at the opportunity.
    I drove two 3 series for 12 years, It is my favorite car by far.
    But I am looking forward to driving the new LS next fall.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    hpowders - you don't need to explain that deal to anyone. Great move, great value.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    "But I am looking forward to driving the new LS next fall."

    DOH :surprise:

    Hmmm...Powders...that's only about 9 months away....Like waiting for a new Baby to arrive. Kewl tho'....I just didn't expect to hear this news considering how much you have enjoyed driving your BMW 5 series. I still haven't seen the spy photos of the LS but would appreciate seeing it.
    (I am about fully recovered from the Tennis smash. :sick: As soon as the mesh imprint leaves my backside everything will be back to normal. :P )
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thanks Ljflx.
    Nothing pretentious about it.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I will drive the new LS.
    I am very curious to find out whether Lexus improves the driveability of their flagship.
    They missed with the new GS.
    It's a big moment for Lexus and I will check it out for myself.

    Who knows? Maybe in a few winters, I may have a "December To Remember."
    I favor BMW but I am certainly not rigid about it.
    They certainly aren't sending me any holiday bonus check!
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Misunderstood you... :blush:

    OK...you did say drive...not buy. Correctamundo.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Even CR listed the new GS as one of their "most disappointing" new models in the '06 new car issue... along with the 530i. Among the "most improved" was the Infiniti M.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. The new LS is at the top of my must drive list next fall.
    I would be delighted to be pleasantly surprised.
    We'll just have to wait and see.

    Looking forward to Merc1's LS style report in January when he visits Detroit.
    If he gives it grudging, lukewarm approval, that can be considered a coup by Lexus.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Getting back to the LS for a moment...are there any GOOD spy photos available yet?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. Infiniti did a miraculous job with the new M.
    They turned a dull car into one with panache.
    It should have been voted car of the year.
    C & D really should explain why it wasn't.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well the good news is it's only 26 days until the initial unveiling.
    And then we will have photos and analysis galore!

    Ya gotta love it!
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Yes I see what you mean...Merc will be tough.
    Bottom line tho' you have to get the whole scoop from L-Guy.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Well, if you're after "driveability" and a BMW fan and were disappointed with the GS, I don't see how an 07 LS is going to be sporty enough for you. I just don't see Lexus making a standard LS more sporty than a standard GS.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    But if Merc1 even slightly likes it, that will be huge news in this cyber neighborhood.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I realize that. I don't expect BMW driveability.
    I had issues with the current LS: the steering had too much power assist, the body lean was pronounced and I wasn't too wild about the driver's seat.
    I want to see if Lexus made any improvements in these areas.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    When do the major car magazines get to review the new LS and publish their "first impressions" and then their "first drive"?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Its going to be into next year before that happens. I think the new LS is supposed to have some sort of "ABC" like system, so even if its not the sportiest car in the world (which it wont be) body control should be greatly improved over the current car.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Fantastic deal. And you're right. Nothing to do with status. Just fun.

    Wonder why the 545 was only $50 more a month? Did you compare exactly comparable deals? People spend more than $50 a WEEK on Starbucks. Congrats.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    It will be interesting to hear from Merc1 as to whether he was able to view the new LS's interior. I doubt if he will

    Looking forward to Merc1's LS style report in January when he visits Detroit. If he gives it grudging, lukewarm approval, that can be considered a coup by Lexus.

    But if Merc1 even slightly likes it, that will be huge news in this cyber neighborhood.

    I didn't realise your hero worship of Merc1 goes this far ? His report from an auto show is just his slant on what he finds there. I'd rather read from Lexusguy, who is far more objective and open-minded than Merc1 is. In the real world, Merc1's likes/dislikes would be zilch to anyone wanting to buy/lease a 2007 LS460.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    pick your fruit. . .er . . . or appliance.

    CLS is quite good, IMO, but I'll admit that I've posted on other forums (not Edmunds) that the tail is the problem I have with it. Still, it's a winner, but not my favorite.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well at the time the 2006 330i was new and hot with an appropriately high money factor which jacked up the monthly payment to around $625 a month.
    The 545 available at the same time came to $674 a month.
    I lucked out because they had to get rid of the 2005 545's to make room for the 2006 550's at the exact time my last 325 lease was up. Comparably equipped to my 545, the 550 is now going for about $859 a month.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I on the other hand respect both Merc1 and Lexusguy and eagerly await both of their takes on the new LS.
    I welcome anyone else's opinion and/or photos.
    The more takes, the merrier.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I'm speechless, and can only imagine how merc1 would reply to those comments.

    See Pat's post right after yours!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Even CR listed the new GS as one of their "most disappointing" new models in the '06 new car issue... along with the 530i. Among the "most improved" was the Infiniti M.

    Holy fuel-injectors! I can't believe CR said that about the GS and it is even more shocking that they fell out of low with the 530i, previously one of their favorites. Let me guess with the BMW, it was Idrive and active steering that led to this?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    His report from an auto show is just his slant on what he finds there. I'd rather read from Lexusguy, who is far more objective and open-minded than Merc1 is.

    You're kidding and I thought that all a person could give is their "slant" on what they saw at an autoshow. You really need to go back to Jan of this year and see what I said about the Detroit autoshow, hardly anything like one of de-bunking posts written when addressing a post of yours.

    In the real world, Merc1's likes/dislikes would be zilch to anyone wanting to buy/lease a 2007 LS460.

    Likewise all the bogus hype you post about German cars isn't gonna mean squat to anyone wanting to buy a Mercedes, BMW or Audi.

    Please don't tell me anything about being objective when you live to post anything negative about Mercedes, usually accompanied with incorrect numbers, big assumptions and other inconsistencies.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I on the other hand respect both Merc1 and Lexusguy and eagerly await both of their takes on the new LS.

    Thanks. Here is what I posted about the 2005 Detroit show:
    Post 1
    Post 2

    Oac at the time said:

    Thanks for a well-written auto show report. Can you comment more on the new S style-wise ? Did you see the LF-S in the Lexus stand ? Any whisper on the LF-X ? I know you probably don't care for anything Lexus, but maybe you did hear something. Source

    Sounds like to me something has gone awry in the last few days or weeks, must be the last debate that changed his feelings about my annual autoshow report. :P

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Actually, Active Steering was not mentioned. They complained that overall interior quality is down compared to the old car, and of course, iDrive. Frankly, I have to wonder if they really prefered the controls for the old NAV system. That thing was hardly a joy to use.

    As for the GS, it was the usual complaints about handling, numb steering, and a cramped interior. Or as Edmunds (and no one else) would say, "Japan's best sports sedan".
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well you know how Edmunds says one thing and does another. Edmunds having picked the GS over the M shows that they were looking at mainly luxury, not sport.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I know, I just love to pick on them for that boneheaded comment.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Oac, I see your point but disagree with it. You are trying to pigeonhole value into one low financial level. My point is that there is value at infinite levels and it makes no difference what someone earns. Lexus is about value ESPECIALLY since you indulge above and beyond your Matrix etc. LS owners have admitted on many occasions that they would have bought the S had it been more reliable especially if it had been priced similarly to the LS. There’s the convenience aspect but that’s about value too. To the working wealthy, time is money. And to those of us who aren’t wealthy, which is most of us, every dime spent is usually accompanied by a value consideration.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The 530 has out of grace with a lot of people. The 7 was never really in grace and yet they continue to sell well. It often confounds me but when everything is said and done the answer for me is that I would still choose a BMW as would many enthusiasts. Tolerating annoying bs is nothing new to the German car fan. It comes with the territory, always did.

    As long as Merc is being feted, this thought comes to me. He is often criticized for not owning the cars he comments on. Merc is living proof that you don’t have to own a car to know about them. Think about it, none of us own most of the cars we yenta about. Also, take a look at what the professional writers drive. These guys are on working-man budgets, not “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous” budgets. I would bet Merc drives and reads about more of these cars than most of us.

    But what I really appreciate is that he writes and writes, and not only in this thread. To tell you the truth, that’s why I’m here. The pen is mightier than the sword and I’m here to sharpen my pen by using a topic that I enjoy. The net has restored the previously-lost art of letterwriting, and the immediacy it affords cannot be found in any literary medium.

    Now please pour me another cup of coffee.

    ;-)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I can't. I'm still trying to get the chef of the future machine that I bought from EBay to core a apple.
    Geesh!
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Good post....I'm pouring Caribou's Reindeer blend this morning. (Their premiere aged Sumatra blend...in short supply this year due in part to the Sunami) Cream, sugar, or black?

    Here is a clear pic of the testing prototype 2007 LS.. http://info.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.cfm?id=20928
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    "He is often criticized for not owning the cars he comments on. Merc is living proof that you don’t have to own a car to know about them."

    Heck, I'd wager that most/many of the people who build MB's, BMW's and Porsche's don't own them, yet they "know" more about them than most enthusiasts. Most art critics don't own the Monet's, Picasso's, etc they write about, but that does not mean they lack knowledge about the painter and his/her style!

    Most here are considerate of other's choices and even represent their points of view with grace and humor. Flamers and trolls really stand out, don't they? My guess is that many of us would like a nice large garage with several makes occupying the bays...
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We are NOT here to talk about others whether we are admiring or criticizing. This line of conversation needs to be dropped and I'm just going to have to remove any other posts that seem to have to talk about others, positively OR negatively.

    We MUST get back to the marques and the cars if we want this discussion to remain viable.

    I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I don't seem to be getting through here. I've got to get your attention, so please, I would appreciate everyone's cooperation going forward.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I assume you're kiiding with that link but just in case.

    http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/107458/page009.html
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    There have been some interesting posts regarding the significance of ownership, so, I'd like to get feedback on this:

    How would you describe the difference between knowing a great deal of data about one or more of the marques, and additionally having an ownership experience which gives daily exposure and interaction with the marque? Is it logical that daily interaction offers ANY advantage to understanding a vehicle, beyond all the data?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Why don't you start off by answering that question yourself. And by the way, what do you drive?
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