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Comments
Of course it does. However, you can get plenty of knowledge about these cars by analyzing the specifications, observing them and test driving them without owning them. You know, you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. I think ownership trumps if you own all of them. Owning one car and comparing it to many really doesn't offer much of an advantage when comparing, in my opinion. How many people have become scientists without owning the lab? Probably all of them.
:surprise:
With all the interesting autobiographies and biographies on this site I thought this was the "Owners of High End Luxury Marques Forum".
Personally I find discussing in-animate objects with wheels much more interesting!
(That's as elaborate as I get
http://www.automobilemag.com/2007_sneak_preview/0511_lexus_ls/
Amazing what a different rim and the right background does for a car like the Phantom.
As all the regular posters know I'm not crazy about the Maybach, but the new 57S model is what the car should have been at first, IMO.
New grille looks much better to me.
The booty that provided the inspiration for the new S-Class.
Is that a hint of the W140 S-Class I see here? Yes in the long, flat, blunt hood surface.
Try to keep it on the road!
Now, a car that I have tried to like in both Coupe and now Sedan form, but couldn't. I present to you the Bentley Continental Flying Spur, which I call the "flying brick".
Way too much [non-permissible content removed] here.
Has all the elegance of a speeding locomotive in this shot, IMO.
Ditto.
Does it look any better here? You be the judge.
M
A special King Kong version of a VW Tourareg?
Why was there not a Gigli version of a VW Phaeton?
King Kong Promo
The study found new and dynamic body styling can serve as a positive
substitute for quality deficiencies in the short-term. In recent years,
consumers have come to expect a satisfactory level of quality in most new
vehicles. Accordingly, as quality has become less of a factor in purchase
decisions, vehicle styling has grown in importance as a key differentiator.
According to Carrannanto, over the past five years, brands with high
styling scores tended to be sales growth leaders. These included BMW, Lexus,
Acura, Nissan, Volvo, Cadillac and Chrysler.
Personally my priority is neither design/styling(no offense Designman) or quality/reliability. My priority for any car is its drivetrain/chassis.
The Insignificance of Reliability
Acura Brand in Japan
Ninety percent of the Japanese luxury market is dominated by the Big 3 luxury marques of Germany. I do admire the Japanese for their good taste in luxury cars.
Who knows maybe North Americans will learn one day not to rely solely on Consumers Report for their car choices.
So, while Japan's car makers are feared by competitors abroad for their high-quality, fuel-efficient and comfortable cars, in their home market, they have ceded the premium segment to foreign imports -- notably German rivals BMW AG, Audi from Volkswagen AG and Mercedes-Benz from DaimlerChrysler AG. (See related article.)
Last year, industry officials say, imports accounted for 90% of Japan's market for cars that retail at $50,000 and up. Honda officials say a big reason for their move is an effort to expand Honda's presence in Japan's big urban centers like Tokyo and Osaka, where the dominance of the German car makers is most striking.
German Luxury is Number One
Acura, Nissan, Volvo, Cadillac and Chrysler."
Lexus a sales growth leader because of styling? HA HA HA HA HA! Possibly in the future, but definitely not in the past, imho.
The study found new and dynamic body styling can serve as a positive substitute for quality deficiencies in the short-term.
I assume you are being at least somewhat facetious in your comment. But this "study", at least as reported here, seems pretty lame.
First of all, when a new model is introduced, I would imagine there is an increase in advertising and promotion that would be expected to increase sales.
Secondly, when a new model comes out, loyal owners of the previous model are incentivized to replace their cars.
Thirdly, I would bet that cars that are not generally considered to be styling leaders experience the same jump in sales when a new model is introduced. And cars that are from "quality" leading manufacturers probably experience the same jump in sales with a new model introduction. In other words, styling vs. quality has nothing to do with the phenomenon of increase sales of new model introductions. Duh.
On further reflection, "lame" is probably too kind a term for this study (again, at least as reported here).
http://www.autoweb.com/content/research/vir/index.cfm/action/Media/photo_type_in- - t/3/series_id_int/38948
Secondly, when a new model comes out, loyal owners of the previous model are incentivized to replace their cars.
The point of the article was not to portray every single factor that increases sales as brand loyalty and advertising. The key point of the article was this:
As new vehicle quality rankings
converge, styling is emerging as a key differentiator for consumers as they
decide on the make and model of their next purchase.
2)Thirdly, I would bet that cars that are not generally considered to be styling leaders experience the same jump in sales when a new model is introduced.
New cars that are not styling leaders would have higher volume sales if they improved their styling. That seems obvious to me.
3)In other words, styling vs. quality has nothing to do with the phenomenon of increase sales of new model introductions. Duh.
New styling is playing a bigger role with increasing car sales than before and quality is playing a lesser role in increasing car sales than before. There is nothing lame about that conclusion .
Remember the conclusions mentioned above are based on various surveys and studies and not on a few opinions of forum members.
The A.T. Kearney study was conducted by comparing information contained in
the 2004 J.D. Power Appeal Survey, 2000-2005 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study
and the 2000 -- 2004 Ward's North American Vehicle Sales Summary.
According to Carrannanto, over the past five years, brands with high styling scores tended to be sales growth leaders.
I love this post! I just want to thank the people at the A. T. Kearney company, for showing the significance of style and design. Thanks dewey.
Where's that drivetrain study when we need it?
Yes, I am waiting for that study.
1. Carrannanto also noted increased sales for vehicles with new styling
continue for about two years. After that time period, sales fall off to
previous levels and, in some cases, decline even more.
You mean we needed a survey to figure this out.
2. According to Carrannanto, over the past five years, brands with high
styling scores tended to be sales growth leaders. These included BMW, Lexus,
Acura, Nissan, Volvo, Cadillac and Chrysler.
Well now we have the full explanation of MB's decline is sales - bad styling per this survey. They missed the grade.
I feel sorry for anyone stupid enough to pay for that survey's indepth data - if it exists.
I myself do not like the conclusions! Styling in itself will not move me to buy any car.
This survey is not about you or me. This survey is about "car buyers in general" and not about "informed car buyers".
ljflx, you may consider the typical car buyer who cares more about styling than quality as stupid but your opinion will not change the car buying public.
A customer survey that deals with what excites car buyers is of great value for the industry.
I kinda like them, after I figured out they weren't wheels off of a BMW M3! I do agree that the whole looks is sort "gansta" or MTV Cribish.
M
I have a brother in the consulting business, Ph.D. level . . . Yes, the client may already exist, but, trust me, the consulting firms often do in-house studies because they can get VALUABLE results for companies with money to spend.
Your words say it well.
In fact, I'd find you a number of examples where this kind of conclusion falls down. Take the new Camry. It is certainly not a style leader, yet continues to outsell its competition. What drives Camry sales ? Toyota quality is certainly a HUGE factor ... You can say same for Honda... These cars are very hugely successful and not becos of their styling or beauty.
Dewey, what will be interesting to find is the survey that correlates driveability/chassis survey and improved sales (like that of BMW). Talking about BMW, lately their ads on TV have focused almost solely on their FREE maintainance program. Hmmmm !!! Could that be a driver of improved BMW sales as well ??? That is, what garyh alluded to in his post: increased marketing dollars to push new features/new releases as driving increased sales and revenue....
posts 12107 and 12108
Sales Results
Quality is Job One for all auto marques, well at least that is what they claim.
But maybe MB sales are falling behind competitors for other reasons than quality.
What can explain the healthy increase in Audi sales in North America. Audi reliability, I dont think so.
In fact in Europe Audi A4 sales have surpassed BMW 3 series sales. And Audi A6 sales are tied with BMW 5 series sales and way ahead of MB E class sales. Is this because of Audi reliability, again I dont think so.
So definitely quality is not as important a sales driver as what it may appear to be in this forum(at least among the majority attending these forums).
Of course Toyota and Honda depend on the reliability-loving crowd for their sales domination, that is a given. I would question if a person is sighted if they said they bought a Camry based on how it looks. Likewise companies like VW depend more on style/design and performance to sell their cars because their reliability isn't so great. The fact that some are willing to pay a premium for a VW over comparable Japanese and dirt cheap Korean cars (which really aren't comparable IMO) with not so good reliability proves that VW sells on something "else". Same thing (but in reverse) about the thousands of Camry buyers.
When it comes to these luxury cars things like styling, performance, reliability, quality etc. all play a role, but again it is weighted differently for different brands.
BMW - IMO depends on performance and sheer driving pleasure, and up until recently their styling had a larger part in the decision for a lot to buy also. This latter quality, "styling" has been the subject of much debate recently when it comes to BMW, but as Designman has stated the driving experience is still there so people will still buy BMWs, no matter what people who wouldn't buy one anyway think about their styling. I personally am coming back around to lusting for BMWs again. The only one I still can't get with is the 7-Series.
Mercedes - made their name on quality, motorsports, innovation, safety, reliability and just very through engineering, all of these things minus stellar reliability are still there, while at the same time they seriously turned up the wick on styling and they went on a product offensive to counter the bad press about quality, pretty smart imo. So the SLK, CLS and M-Class are successful, the real test will be the new S-Class. The R-Class, well doesn't look to be a hit so far like other recent intros. Mercedes never sold on one single thing which is why they're still around and able to launch new models and have nearly all of them go over well.
Audi - I have a few ideas as to why they can't get out of the shadow of MB/BMW in this country. For one the last time I looked at Audi's website you can't even get a brochure on their cars. Big mistake. Some might be intrigued by an Audi and go looking for a brochure and find they can't get one and their reaction is likely "oh well" and Audi loses another sale. Secondly Audi doesn't have the depth of models MB and BMW do, nor do they have comparable dealer body in either size or location.
Lexus - making their way on quality and a superior dealership experience/body. Styling isn't a draw for Lexus, IMO. Even with their new design direction they still don't look like anything special like certain MB/BMW/Audi models. Quality and fine engineering will always sell whether it is "hip" or not, just to a slighly different crowd who places these things above all else.
There are many things that play a role in sales which is why there is room for all of these brands. How much room is the question.
I really think that if Toyota (not Lexus) had a drop in reliability like Mercedes or VW have had they'd sink much faster because that is what they mainly depend on. It surely isn't design or the driving experience.
M
Audi: Jack of all trades and master of none...
or
Audi: Moderation in all things...
Given their interior styling, they should advertise that:
Audi: Who cares about the world outside?
And now with their new front grilles:
Audi: The Big One That Didn't Get Away...
Hmmm...not quite up to "The Ultimate Driving Machine" or "The Relentless (Passionate?) Pursuit of Perfection".
Don't get me wrong. The Audi A8 I saw last year at the auto show had a fabulous interior, but I agree; they do not have an image in N.A.
That is a terrific post, IMHO.
Going back to lurking now.
ljflx, you may consider the typical car buyer who cares more about styling than quality as stupid but your opinion will not change the car buying public.
Dewey, I think you missed the point of my post. In fact, I think Len is the only one who commented on it that appears to have totally gotten what I was saying.
I (and Len) are not disagreeing with your concept that styling is important to many buyers. The point was that this particular "study" was a piece of crappola, and didn't prove a thing about anything. Let me give an example why: to make conclusions about issues involving multiple variables, you have to isolate a variable and then see what happens with different values. This study apparently made no attempt to do that; many factors are at play when a new model is introduced besides just a change in styling (which by the way may be for the worse in the opinion of the majority of the population, and sales would still increase). Therefore you can't draw any conclusions from its findings. That's all I was saying.
All we really can glean is that the appearance of a new model causes an increase in sales over the end of a previous model. Duh. But why that is true is not at all proven to have anything to do with styling vs. quality for any class of buyers.
Based on the summary provided, it's so flawed as a study as to be an embarrassment to the company that put it out. If they get any business off of it from sophisticated industry participants, I (and Len)would be shocked. That's all we were saying.
Your knowledge and thoughtfulness shines through much better for me personally when it is applied in the positive. Of course, I have to quickly add the same comment applies to some other posters here as well. Everyone's thoughts get a much clearer airing when they aren't buried in diatribe.
But of course, every once in a while a little confrontation can be amusing....
This vehicle is white with front and rear heated seats, ventilated front and rear seats, keyless go distronic and parktronic automatic transmission, trunk closer, sport package, xenon lights, dynamic seating, rear air climate control, side and rear sunshades, 4matic, 4place seating, moonroof, 18 inch alloy MB wheels, Leather, Wood and chrome trim, Hands-free communication, cd changer, navigation system, and Bose audio sound system.
Any suggestions that you will be really appreciated.
Wabends :confuse:
It amazes me that you would think that the automotive practice of the global management consulting firm A.T. Kearney consists of a group of flunkies who cannot understand the concept of isolating variables. Their whole business and credibility is based on understanding statistics. Isolating variables is a simple concept that is taught in any introductory Statistics101 course.
How can you conclude what their statistical quality controls are based on the article I linked? You have no justification in caliing this study crapolla unless you have access to the details of their statistical methodology.