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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    High end, did somebody say high end?

    Here is a picture of the rear end of a upper end car. Some of the greatest pictures of a high end exhaust system I have ever seen in my whole life.

    Enjoy.

    M6 Rear End
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Looks like a root canal patient with the dental implements hanging out of his mouth.

    ;-)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    anything made by Infiniti be considered high end?
    That was the first clue the discussion was off-topic.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Why is the hood up? Don't tell me it needs maintenance already? :lemon:

    To be quite honest, that rear looks all bangled up. I don't like it.
    Looks like an old Firebird.

    However, if it were forced on me, I just might acquiesce. :blush:
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    It is purported that the S8 is going to receive the new 7-speed DSG to handle the V-10 engine easier than the already fantastic current DSG.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm wondering which car that big slab of a trunk lid was pulled from, and then tossed on top of the 6. That is one of the ugliest rears on any coupe currently on sale.

    This is what the 6 should've looked like originally. Unfortunately I dont think the "de-ugly" package is worth the $100 grand or so that Fisker wants for it.

    image
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Looks like a character from Cats. Bombalurina? Mr.Mistoffelees?

    There are some serious whiskers on that thing. But the Dodge Swiss-flag grille is a creative touch.

    ;-)
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    You know, this board is full of steriotypes about the Lexus LS owner vs. the MB S class owner. I won't bother to repeat them.

    But lets move beyond that. Can anyone present empirical data about education levels, income, retention rates, median age, % purchased vs. leased, red state/blue state (or urban vs. rural; IMHO the red state/blue state dichotemy is really urban vs. rural anyway) differences, political party preference, etc. for these owners/leasees of these cars? Maybe data from Polk registration figures, trade journals such as Automotive Weekly, etc?

    I think that there are clear differences and I'd like to see some data.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Sounds like a job for SuperStats Man who can leap tall empirical requests in a single bound and recite the World Almanac faster than a speeding bullet. Who has more power than JD Power ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    You were right the first time with it looking like a patient's root canal with the dentist's implements hanging out of his mouth. It really does look like that.
    Geesh! What a mess!
    Even I as a BMW fanatic have to draw the line somewhere. Enough already!
    I can't stop laughing every time I click on that photo!
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    Oac posted a link to a USA Today article a few weeks ago that gave median age of buyers for various brands. This doesn't break down by model, just brand.

    Car buyers' median age by brand:
    Division - Median age
    Rolls-Royce 62.9
    Lincoln 62.8
    Buick 60.8
    Mercedes 58.7
    Chrysler 56.4
    Mercury 55.1
    Cadillac 53.4
    Jaguar 49.8
    Lexus 49.4
    BMW 46.1
    Ferrari 45.6
    Hummer 45.6
    Acura 45.3
    GMC 44.4
    Saab 44.4
    Pontiac 43.4
    Porsche 43.4
    Dodge 42.9
    Chevrolet 42.7
    Honda 41.9
    Toyota 41.9
    Infiniti 41.6
    Mitsubishi 41.3
    Volvo 40.3
    Ford 39.7
    Land Rover 38.9
    VW 38.7
    Jeep 37.6
    Nissan 35.1
    Mazda 34.6
    Suzuki 33.2
    Isuzu 32.7
    Subaru 31.7
    Saturn 30.9
    Hyundai 29.8
    Kia 28.1
    Primary drivers, personal use vehicles only; Source: CNW Marketing Research
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Interestingly Audi is not only overlooked in this forum but also by the media.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    To be quite honest, that rear looks all bangled up. I don't like it.

    Hpowders,

    and I always thought you were the last remnant of support for Bangle design. I guess its official and all Bangle fans have become extinct .

    RIP
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Wow! Looks like Audi has become totally invisible!
    Kia but no Audi.
    The ultimate dis!
    Man! Looks like Audi owners are going to have to join group psychotherapy to treat extreme inferiority complex brought on by acute invisibility. :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I like Bangle's E60 but did not like what he did with the M6.
    Even I have a breaking point. :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Please re-read what I wrote. Lexus selling 300+k vehicles a year in the US would overtake BMW global sales with (Lexus) US sales alone! Would be a neat trick if Lexus can pull that off.

    Brightness04,

    The above has to be among the funniest statements I have ever read in this forum.

    Based on global sales the invisible Audi company is more visible than Lexus.

    Thanks for the comic relief!
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    Audi is doing quite well as a company. They had a record sales year last year, and they are one of the most profitable car companies on a per unit basis of each vehicle sold.

    Audi has the strongest line-up they've ever had with the new A3, re-styled A4, A6, & A8, and the new Q7 coming next year. I personally think they have the best looking vehicles of any high-line car company right now.

    I think Audi's customers are more independent thinkers and are less worried about what people think of them, and don't buy a car just for a status symbol.

    We'll leave that to the propellar and three pointed star crowd.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    and don't buy a car just for a status symbol.
    We'll leave that to the propellar and three pointed star crowd.


    ouch

    you dont know how little that hurts.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Impressive results for Infiniti. I'm sure Lincoln would kill for a number like that.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    A lot of these Infiniti folks are G35 people, and it's much more of a 25-40 age bracket car. So that's helping lower the age #'s for overall sales for Infiniti.

    You also have to consider that Q45 sales figures are abismal. The 50 plus crowd isn't even considering this car compared to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. Infiniti moved only 63 Q 45's last month, and 1,077 for the entire year so far. Audi sells 5X as many of their 80k A8 compared to that, and that's still a relatively small number in this market.

    The M35/45's are also doing very well for Infiniti as they've sold about 21,000 so far this year.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm not sure why even 63 people bought Qs.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    63 is pretty embarrassing for the entire USA. Infiniti should have killed the Q45 last year, but it still soldiers on. Who knows how much longer.

    The did such a good job with the M35/45, and G35 sedans, you wonder what Infiniti has up their sleeve to compete in that 70k market segment. If they build upon the 35/45, a new Q flagship could bring Infiniti full circle.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    anything made by Infiniti be considered high end?
    That was the first clue the discussion was off-topic.


    Q45 is the high end marque for Infiniti, which is itself the high end marque for Nissan. On the other hand, BMW is the mid-level marque for BMW AG, and 3 series is the entry-level product for the mid-level marque, doubly off-topic.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah, I really dont understand why they spent even a dollar "refreshing" the Q. How many extra sales did that get them over the '04? Three people? Four?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    So now the non-wealthy have the priveledge of driving a Ferrari.

    Thank God for the new Bugatti since that is one way for the wealthy to distinguish themselves from the rest of humanity.

    Unless ofcourse an entrepreneur introduces a time-share Bugatti concept.

    The following is from the year end edition of the Economist:

    In Britain, Damon Hill, a former racing driver, has launched P1 International. A £2,500 ($4,300) joining fee, plus annual membership of £13,750, buys around 50-70 driving days a year in cars ranging from a Range Rover Sport to a Bentley or a Ferrari.

    As a result, “the price of entry for much of what traditionally was available to the top 0.001% is now far lower”, says Mr Lawson, who notes the sorry implications for a would-be conspicuous consumer: “How do I know if the guy who drives past me in a Ferrari owns it or is just renting it for the weekend?”
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Why the lacklustre sales for such super lux cars as the Maybach or Rolls Royce?

    Here's a quote from the year end Economist:

    Yet rather than abandoning status anxiety, the way the rich seek to display status may simply be getting more complex. As inequality grows again in rich countries, some of the very rich worry about consumption that is so conspicuous to the masses that it provokes them to try to take their wealth away. Some car-industry experts blame weak sales of the latest luxury limousines on this fear.

    But perhaps the true symbol of exalted status in the era of mass luxury is conspicuous non-consumption. This is the growing tendency of the very rich to dress scruffily and drive beaten-up cars.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi Everyone,
    Another year passes and we're still at it debating. While we all differ in our opinion, our fierce debates show how passionate each and everyone of us are about our cars! I hope everyone has a wonderful and safe New Year!!

    Sam
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    good to see mega stars like Julia Roberts driving the Toyota Prius.
    Unfortunately, most of the others ($452,750 for a Mercedes?) are gorging themselves on high-priced vehicles.

    I do believe many of them could use a little God in their lives to bring them back to reality. Reminds me of the golden calf worshippers.

    On the positive side, it must be nice to know that when you die, you can afford the most expensive box at the undertakers'. ;)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    No Hummers? I'm surprised. Good results for Mercedes though.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    First post of 2006, hooray!

    Detroit is but 2 weeks away! Now this is my favorite time of year!

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    if they let you get closer than 15 feet from the new LS.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    A Lambroghini made in Germany? What kind of sports car connoisseur would buy a bastardized Italian sports car? This sounds like something VW would do!

    It is also likely that the car will share the same underpinnings as the new Audi R8 which itself is based on the Gallardo. This could mean that the Miura will be the first lambo to be built outside Italy, with Germany the likely choice, alongside the R8.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Zetsche defends cuts, says Mercedes could learn from Chrysler

    The above is a good indicator of what kind of humbleness MB needs in order to succeed with its turn-around!

    link title
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    Warren Brown wrote about the 2006 Lexus LS in the Washington Post today. The whole review was about how he didn't like the way the rear seat felt to sit on (he loves the rear seat in the Lincoln Town Car), and how the LS wasn't worth the money since it didn't have a DVD screen in the back and a Honda Odyssey, which costs much less, does.

    The funny thing is that in the sidebar to the article, he notes "The LS 430 has excellent acceleration and superior handling. From the driver's seat, the car is an absolute joy, especially when its electronic suspension is set on the "Sport" mode." But somehow that doesn't matter since his tush didn't like the rear seat and his 11-yr-old godson missed his family's minivan's DVD player.

    The other brilliant observation was "Nearly everybody mistook the Lexus LS 430 for an S-Class Mercedes-Benz. That may be flattering to Mercedes-Benz, but it does little to establish an independent LS 430 identity." Of course, no where in the article did he mention that the next model has already been announced and shown (at least in pre-production form), and it looks nothing like an S-class.

    One thing I noted is that he drove an Ultra Luxury package which had the "Euro-tuned Sport Suspension" - so merc1, other people don't seem to have a problem finding the sport setup that you repeatedly say doesn't exist.

    In any case, everybody who rides in the back of my '05 LS loves it. So unless Lexus did something very weird with the '06 model, I really don't understand what this guy is talking about.

    So according to Mr. Brown, we're all wrong here: the LS is in fact a great "driver's car" with superb handling; it's just a poor "passenger's car" filled with technology you can get for less in other (non-luxury) cars. :confuse:

    You gotta read this to believe it (free website registration):

    Wash Post LS review
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Talk to a Lexus dealer. The "Euro Sport" LS430s are in fact quite rare. Most of the cars have the air springs.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    One thing I noted is that he drove an Ultra Luxury package which had the "Euro-tuned Sport Suspension" - so merc1, other people don't seem to have a problem finding the sport setup that you repeatedly say doesn't exist.

    First of all I didn't say that a LS430 with the Euro option didn't exist. What I said was that it is a hard to get, which is true, despite one clueless reporter's report. The fact remains that a LS430 with the Euro option is all but impossible for everday consumers to test drive.

    Reading that confirms that car reviews from a newspaper (and other non-automotive sources) are nothing more than a jokes.

    M
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    As much as I enjoy disagreeing with you I will agree with you on this post. ;)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    In fact that Warren Brown fellow from Washington Post is a genius!

    Below is a portion of a transcript from a CNN interview with Warren Brown dated March 16th, 2002.

    The following interview has wisdom that CR worshippers tend to ignore:

    BROWN: There is no such thing as an unbiased report. For example, you look at "Consumer Reports", it calls itself unbiased. And certainly to its readers, it is. But it does tend to lean very heavily in favor of Japanese cars and those kinds of models.

    CALLAWAY: Right.

    BROWN: Primarily because that's where its readers tend to lean. Then you look at something from say "Car and Driver" or "Road and Track" or "Motortrend," and you'll get a completely different picture. My favorite is the AAA car guide, primarily because it seems to come from a wider base of buyers, a wider base of experience, but there actually we have certain elements of bias.

    The best thing to do, if you can, is to read as many of them as you possibly can, and also to check various Web sites to see what's there. One of my favorites is Edmunds.com. It tends to give a fairly dry, you know, presentation of what's available. There's also KBB.com and various and sundry others. So you just have to do your research and then go with your gut.


    CNN
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    I have found that there are far more CR bashers than CR "worshippers" in these forums. True, there are many who do weigh what CR says when they are buying (and I think anyone who consciously chooses to completely ignore CR's take on used cars is foolish. I am in no way saying that CR's take should be the only criteria--far from it). I do not feel there are many here who choose a car only by what CR says. These might be considered CR users, rather than worshippers.

    BTW, Brown can't be both an idiot (for his recent review) and a genius.

    On this (HELM) board, there are probably more people who discount CR more than on other boards, simply because they may have the means to. In other words, maintenance costs and reliability in getting from point A to point B may not be as crucial.

    I would guess that most people who bash CR are bashing their relative ratings (as bias can creep into things easier when objective measures are weighted subjectively) rather than their testing methods and surveys. Brown was probably referring to this bias (as CR does cater to their audience, and things like reliability and costs are more important to that population than those who read auto mags).
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The funny thing is, thats really not true about CR. People tend to take CR reliability ratings as CR's own review of the car. Perhaps CR should change the "recommended" tag to a different word, because cars that are often not recommended make it very high on the list because of their performance scores.

    In their Luxury Sedans catergory, the Mercedes E and S, BMW 5, and the Audi A6 and A8, all rank above the Acura RL and Lexus GS. If CR was so blatantly biased towards Japanese cars, shouldnt the results be M, GS, LS, and RL all taking the top spots?

    CR is biased like anyone else, their own editors all have specific things they are looking for in a car, which implies bias, regardless of whether advertising pays the bills at CR or not. The difference between CR and say C&D, is that one of the things CR looks for is reliability. Thats not the only thing they care about. If it was, Japanese cars would win every segment like some seem to think they do. The automags could care less about that, except perhaps in the long term tests, and then major problems are often glossed over as "teething pains".
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    are not predictive because they are too skewed to the past- averaging the last 3 years of data per car for each "current" rating.
    This faulty analysis IMO makes their "current" reliability ratings useless.

    Another flaw: When 2 cars are rated "average" and "below average" respectively, where's the cut-off point?
    A car may be black-circled as "below average" for achieving 1 point less than the "average vehicle."
    The ratings CR uses are simply too vague because they don't reveal the total number of points earned by each vehicle.
    Some cars with different ratings may be only a point or 2 apart while 2 others may be many points apart.

    I cannot respect the CR ratings until they come out and once and for all give comprehensive detailed ratings for each vehicles with point totals.

    I e-mailed them about this but they responded with their usual "mumbo-jumbo."

    CR seems to be an organization that has grown too big for its own good (much like the AARP), with little respect for the consumer they profess to serve.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    because I know what's about to happen. ;)

    This is not about Consumer Reports. I do not know if there is a current topic on Consumer Reports on our News & Views board (there have been many), but whether there is or there is not, that's where this debate belongs.

    We are here to talk about, well, you know. :D
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    To everyone and their loved ones/families and friends. Isn't it so nice to talk less and listen more ? I am loving my back-seat lurking mode so much, I may make it semi-permanent.

    BTW, just got the LX470 an '03, and loving it. Now solidly Lexus in my car/truck purchases. Was talking to my dealer last week and he opined that the 2007 LS460 base would not add much to 2006 LS430 base price. That would be nice. And that the LS600h is projected at $90K-ish base, which would come pretty much loaded. That is beyond my price range, so I am taking a pass. My 110K miles '99 LS400 is long due for a replacement, and now that Santa (my wife) has gotten her LX, the road is clear for a 2007 LS for me. However, this time I will possibly expand my LS replacement search to include the A8 and the 750i (if the new redo gets here by next year). No MB in my future until they get their act together... Sorry.

    Now back to the rocking chair.... Wishing everyone the very best in this new year.
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    Strong October thru December sales put MB sales in the black again: this is 12 consecutive years of sales increases in the USA.

    The increase for 2005 is only 1% but this is good considering weak sales in the first half of the year.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/04/204795.html
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Interesting. Why are you not including M-B? Reliability concerns? Neither the A8 or the 750 are reliable cars..
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    However, this time I will possibly expand my LS replacement search to include the A8 and the 750i (if the new redo gets here by next year).

    750 isn’t on the left coast? They’ve been around for a while around here. A colleague of mine just got one.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    MB to me represents the past.... in contrast to Audi, BMW, Lexus which are all much *newer* ... I do not want to own a car my parents/grandparents lusted after. In fact, one of the reason I owned Lexus was bcos it was the newest kid on the block... That appeals to me. Of course, that it was more reliable was only icing on the cake. Contrary to some beliefs, I have never read or subscribed to CR in my life. It certainly didn't matter to my car buying purchases....

    Like I said, I will *consider* the Bimmer and the Audi in my next go-round. If these cars meet up, reliability inclusive, I might be tempted, just to break the Lexus lock in the family stable :)
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I was actually refering to some rumored re-design of the 7. Is that just a rumor, and not reality ? If it is still Bangled by MY 2007/2008, forgetaboutit....
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The 7-series was just facelifed for 06 and came out this past fall. The new design is slated for 09. I recall speculating (wishing) that it would be pushed up to 08 but that was just me blabbering as all good car yentas should.

    ;-)
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