Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Which post are you actually replying to here? It shows mine, but your comments are referring to another I believe. You must have enjoyed the "spirits" a bit while watching the games!
Understandable.
I do see Lexus cracking 40k cars, maybe even 45K cars with this new car but I also think the whole segment will have increased car sales. Both the new S and new LS will generate a lot of enthusiasm and the LS hybrid will notch it up higher still. Long-term - this will be very difficult for Audi and Jaguar to stay in (in the US) and they'll have to treat it as loss leaders. The guys with deep pockets have both the cash and the category killer cars.
Oh, I don’t know about that. I think of the S-type as either an Idaho potato or a front-loading washing machine.
OK - back to cars and Goodnight for now.
I am still concerned about the "clone" appearance of many of the Toyota/Lexus/Scion vehicles. So many of them, EVEN THE NEW LS, have a similar shape . . . just different sizes and options. It's a self-diluting approach that will require a "freshening" before too long, because the overuse of the same look will get long in the tooth quickly in my opinion. I think it could be a bit dangerous in the long run. Take a look at BusinessWeek, page 54, for those of you that subscribe, and see the picture of the Scion tc coupe. As I look at this, there IS NO DOUBT that it is a member of the Toyota/Lexus/Scion family of vehicles, as it SHARES the SAME shape that I am referring to. I find it interesting to see that a Scion shares some of the design lines with the LS. I guess crazier things can happen.
Anyway, it's going to be fun.
TagMan
Some of the difference between what we drive and what they drive can be attributed to their lower wages, higher taxes, and higher fuel costs. But the rest of the difference in ownership patterns must be cultural. Even in the high end Westmount section you just don't see S Classes. The Bentley dealer doesn't even have a new Arnage or Continental GT in stock! I think that the more modest Canadians are not as interested in large, expensive sedans and SUVs as we are.
Not here in Toronto that is known by other Canadians as Hogtown.
Some of the difference between what we drive and what they drive can be attributed to their lower wages, higher taxes, and higher fuel costs.
In fact Quebec has below average wages and higher taxes and fuel costs relative to the Canadian average figures.
True, they mised the SUV party for sure. Actually Mercedes was first to offer one, but the design wasn't what the market wanted. True, but this wasn't in debate.
M
Saw an LS430, ES330 and SC430 all such stylish vehicles. Not! Let me see if I have this right. It is wrong for Mercedes to launch a new full size SUV, but when Lexus gets around to replacing the ancient LX470 with an even bigger vehicle they'll be doing the right thing I suppose? Right?
M
Definitely, but I have been caught driving there in a blizzard before so...
Hey, M1, you mentioned that Jaguar (and others) are lined up to offer their versions of the CLS. What exactly are you referring to that Jaguar is doing in response to the CLS? I'm drawing a blank here.
In the Feb issue of Automobile Magazine they're saying that the next XJ (2009) will quit trying to compete with the S/LS/A8/7 and go for the CLS and Quattroporte. Not sure how sound of a business plan that will be, but its only fair since the CLS was reportedly designed to add some Jaguar-like flair to the Mercedes lineup.
M
The simple facts remains that those cars were failures until new versions arrived during 2005.
You can spin the aimless production capacity theory forever and it won't change anything. You can spin the excuses for why they flopped all day long also, won't change squat either.
All this "core competence" and "they didn't up them" is Lexus' fault not anyone elses. Again, feel free to spin this as much as you like!
Yada yada on glorious history 100 years ago; too bad it doesn't sell cars to those who can actually afford to buy them. Why other manufacturers try to build a CLS competitor but not an LS competitor? Isn't the answer obvious? Other manufacturers think they can beat MB at its own game but no chance at beating Lexus. Duh! It's relatively cheap and easy to "invent a new segment" but really hard to make impeccable cars that people really want and sell them at competitive prices; that's a game few excell at, and Lexus happens to be one of the masters.
This makes more sense than ever before. Now we know who can and who can't afford a Mercedes and we now know who is buying them. Stupendous! No one is trying to build a LS430 because the LS started out as the grandest copycat car of them all. The European brands all have their own heritage and brand identity in spades, enough not to go chasing and building blank copy of each other's cars, thats why.
Besides what European or even American luxury car make (besides maybe Lincolin) is going to purposely set out to build an ugly, poor handling land yacht like the current LS430? None.
Now I'm reading where you think Lexus ran out of staff so they couldn't update the previous GS?
OMG, WHAT BS!
M
No, actually I was replying to a previous post. Secondly, all your off-base assumptions and continued peadaling of hype about MB won't stop them from turning things around either. Remember that next time you post a story about some piece of MB tech not working, without having read the whole article first.
Talking of copying, I wonder how many German auto companies would love to have the TPS in their factories, eh ???? Maybe no one thinks the TPS is such a great system, eh ??? Who would have thunk it that Lexus could make such quality cars ? No one is copying Lexus' customer service, build quality, reliable automobiles, seamless integration of electronics, 8-speed tranny, hybrid synergy system, TPS, etc. Totally unimportant in the car business, eh ? Alrighty.... let's move on...
See here is where you make no sense to me. We were talking about copying and yet you bring up what other makes would like to have in their factories. Don't you think that by now anyone who wanted to use TPS would have approached Toyota by now, either publically or behind the scenes? Sure Toyota is the best there is at lean, quality production. You'd better hope they don't get arrogant like GM and wind up exposing their rear flank to the Koreans and Chinese. Since you implied something about Lexus' 8-speed tranny like someone is already coping it? I'd really like to know who is, since you seem to imply that someone is. WHO? Total ridiculousness to sit there and say that others are copying Lexus' build quality and reliability when these are things that every car built in the world today strives to achieve. Toyota didn't event these things, they've only perfected it in the modern era, and Audi ain't trying to copy squat from Toyota in the way of build quality either. One look at one and you'll see why if don't have Lexus blinders on.
M
I don't see how you could think that Lexus isn't chasing anyone. They are clearly chasing BMW from top to bottom with designs to match. Clearly they're trying to be sportier now. You don't see BMW, Mercedes and Audi chasing Lexus by mentioning them in every press release or trying to make their cars more like a Lexus. Now its all a marketing spin when just 8-12 months ago everything Danny Clemets said was literally taken as gospel by every Lexus fan on this board including yourself. The entire luxury car world was to be crushed according to you and Oac.
Lexus is the biggest follower in the luxury car market. One minute (well actually 14+ years) it was Mercedes, now its BMW. Sure they've come to represent certain things like reliability, quality and quietness on their own, but they still have Germancar envy big time, now its BMW. The IS350 is a direct wannabe 3-Series, as was supposed to be the GS. Now some are saying the new LS460 (stunning technology BTW) looks like BMW work also, not sure about that yet.
M
No it came to me mid-post.
You're correct as can be about the IS350 and its hp end-run attempt at a 3-Series, but without a proper stick. No dice. Yet Lexus isnt following anyone? Sheer denial.
M
Very convincing argument . . . not!
The simple facts remains that those cars were failures until new versions arrived during 2005.
So are you done or not done?? You are rebutting your first paragraph with your second paragraph in the same post now? Previous generation IS and GS did very well in their first years, far more than 14k units sold for each of them.
The European brands all have their own heritage and brand identity in spades, enough not to go chasing and building blank copy of each other's cars, thats why.
Didn't you say Jaguar and others were trying to make copies and competitions to CLS?? How many times do you intend on debunking yourself in a single post? Europeans copy each other's designs and marketting approaches all the time. Do you think both MB and BMW got "louder" in their designs since the late 90's, deviating from their conservative roots one after another by accident? expanding into smaller and less expensive cars by accident? AMG vs. M vs. S by accident? Come on, get real! They do not copy Lexus for a very simple reason: they can not out-do Lexus in its own game. The way it's going, frankly, LS may compete against the likes of Maybach, Bentley and Rolls-Royce in the next generation or so . . . something that I predicted half a decade ago!
Besides what European or even American luxury car make (besides maybe Lincolin) is going to purposely set out to build an ugly, poor handling land yacht . . .
Maybach, Bentley and Rolls-Royce. None of them are great handling machines. Handling matters when one is buying a $15k Eclipse, but not when one is getting a high end luxury car to be driven by a chauffer. The owner would rather be in a yacht or a private jet if not for the necessity for wheels.
So now Lexus not following BMW example of offering a stick is used as evidence of following?? Great logic indeed.
No, the 306hp, stiff ride and smallish interior are.
M
Say what?? What non-M standard BMW 3 series has 300+ horsepower? Isn't every car company in the business of packing more horsepowers? Since like, the days of horse-drawn carriages! Do Germans have a patent on using more than one horse to draw carriage on Roman roads too?? does BMW have patent on stiff ride and small interior too?? The last time I checked, BMW 3 series is getting bigger in size and getting softer in ride quality. In fact, IS300 was a lot harder riding than E46 and E90.
Which still didn't amount to beating their competitors from BMW and Mercedes. Period. Oh, let me guess, Lexus' staff quit and the production lines couldn't handle any more output. Pluhlease.
Didn't you say Jaguar and others were trying to make copies and competitions to CLS?? How many times do you intend to debunk yourself in a single post? Europeans copy each other's designs and marketting approaches all the time. Do you think both MB and BMW got "louder" in their designs since the late 90's, deviating from their conservative roots one after another by accident? expanding into smaller and less expensive cars by accident? AMG vs. M vs. S by accident? Come on, get real! They do not copy Lexus for a very simple reason: they can not out-do Lexus in its own game. The way it's going, frankly, LS may compete against the likes of Maybach, Bentley and Rolls-Royce in the next generation or so . . . something that I predicted half a decade ago!
Again, more of the same. The CLS competitors are rumored and upcoming, not running around like current Lexus copies are. Secondly, again, for the second time none of these brands are copying each other like Lexus copied Mercedes and now is trying to be like BMW now. Period. One car from Mercedes that attempts to be "pretty" like a Jaguar is a far cry from making their flagship cars like the S, SL or E like a car from Jaguar, BMW, Audi or anyone else.
AMG vs M? What does that have to do with anything? Nothing. AMG cars aren't even like M cars beyond hp and price. AMG goes for more luxury with an automatic and forced induction torque monster engines. M goes for manuals/SMGs and high revs and shaper handling, over MB's Airmatic influenced ride comfort.
Maybach, Bentley and Rolls-Royce. None of them are great handling machines. Handling matters when one is buying a $15k Eclipse, but not when one is getting a high end luxury car to be driven by a chauffer. The owner would rather be in a yacht or a private jet if not for the necessity for wheels.
None of these cars compete in this space so why bring them up? Maybe I should have been more specific so you won't try to divert attention away from the brands in question by bringing up ones that irrelevant to this conversation. Of course those cars about ride over handling. Problem is you just skirted over the issue when it comes someone trying to build an Lexus LS. NO ONE IS. Lexus spends their time trying to build a Mercedes S-Class and now (according to some, not necessarily me) a 7-Series.
M
Yeah, but in the class of the 3-Series, Lexus tried to compenstate for not having a stick by overshooting the hp of everyone else, only to wind up second to the 3-Series in every comparo so far.
M
Neither IS nor GS were intended to beat 3, 5, C or E on their own. IS and GS were performance extensions of ES and RX mainstream cars. ES and RX competed against 325, 525, C240, C280, E320 and their wagon variants; IS and GS competed against 330i, 530i, 545i, C320, and E500. If anything, one might make the argument that BMW and MB copy each other's product lineups, replete with almost one-on-one sedan and wagon offerings, whereas Lexus took quite a different route.
The CLS competitors are rumored and upcoming,
Is that your way of backtracking what you said earlier?? But you are the one spreading the "rumors," whether that rumor has any substance or not.
AMG vs M? What does that have to do with anything?
AMG is obviously an MB attempt to copy the success BMW's M division. They compete for the similar clientelles; just look at the numerous comparos. Your argument splitting hair about AMG using AMG and force-induction therefore it's not copying M division is laughable . . . by that logic, Lexus never copied anyone because it packed more electronics, electronics that actually worked, into their cars. Get real.
None of these cars compete in this space so why bring them up? Of course these cars about ride over handling.
In case you did not notice, that's the direction LS is headed. Much of S class sales worldwide are to fleets; the drivers are often not owners
Problem is you just skirted over the issue when it comes someone trying to build an Lexus LS. NO ONE IS. Lexus spends their time trying to build a Mercedes S-Class and now (according to some, not necessarily me) a 7-Series.
There is no point for anyone else to make an LS except for Lexus; nor anyone to make an S class except MB; nor anyone to make a 7 except for BMW. However, if you can make a better LS than Lexus, or better S than MB, or better 7 than BMW, and still be able to sell with a competitive value proposition, you have a business plan. The reality is that, nobody in their right mind dares to even try making a better LS than Lexus. The same can not be said of S (or CLS, like you said ealier).
How does emphasizing Lexus' different transmission offering and horsepower output help your argument that Lexus was copying BMW??
In my opinion, looking at the LS460L, rolls royce phantom and maybach better be prepared as the LS has all what they have and even more. In a direct comparison LS will handily beat phantom and maybach be it refinement, luxury, technology, craftsmanship, quiteness etc.
All spin and bs not really worth responding to. The IS and GS you say - "were performance extensions of ES and RX mainstream cars". Dude that is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant a response. Totally ridiculous.
Is that your way of backtracking what you said earlier?? But you are the one spreading the "rumors," whether that rumor has any substance or not.
No, it was a way of clearing up what I said earlier, since you didn't seem to grasp it. Secondly, anything I've said about upcoming products can be readily found in the press and I didn't pass them off as fact, only speculation. In stark constrast to how most Lexus fans report things.
AMG is obviously an MB attempt to copy the success BMW's M division. They compete for the similar clientelles; just look at the numerous comparos. Your argument splitting hair about AMG using AMG and force-induction therefore it's not copying M division is laughable . . . by that logic, Lexus never copied anyone because it packed more electronics, electronics that actually worked, into their cars. Get real.
Bull, plain and simple. AMG goes back to 1967 and BMW's M wasn't even a matter of discussion back then. AMG has always been about hp more than outright handling like M. The original AMG "Hammer" proves this. It wasn't a M5 competitors on the track, but would inhale it on the straights. More importantly, my point about copying was that AMG isn't trying to build a BMW in either function or look like LEXUS DID with Mercedes in the past or Lexus now. Big difference. You get real and realize that Lexus is all about chasing whomever they think is hot at the moment, that being BMW now in their eyes. Every car add electronics, not just Lexus. Every car DOES NOT however have to look like their most direct competitor. Adding the electronics bs to your post was only more of the same spin as before.
There is no point for anyone else to make an LS except for Lexus; nor anyone to make an S class except MB; nor anyone to make a 7 except for BMW. However, if you can make a better LS than Lexus, or better S than MB, or better 7 than BMW, and still be able to sell with a competitive value proposition, you have a business plan. The reality is that, nobody in their right mind dares to even try making a better LS than Lexus. The same can not be said of S (or CLS, like you said ealier).
What a pile of contradiction. The LS started out as a copy in the first place! Have you forgotten this? For MB to set out to make LS they'd only be copying SOME of their own previous work and BMW and the rest aren't interested in doing so because a car like the LS doesn't suite the profile of BMW, Jaguar or Audi. They aren't trying because they don't need or have to, not because they couldn't. How much twisting can you do with this ridiculous theory?
M
This is grand reaching at best, only in a Lexus induced fantasy.
M
I didn't think there would be. In all honestly I don't see what is so different about the LS460's interior compared to the IS or GS. Its the same theme with more buttons? The rear seats and legroom are the biggest differences compared to the current LS430 IMO just looking at the pics.
M
Posting a content-free response like that, and you call my post "spin and bs"?? What exactly is MB and BMW's competitor to ES330 if it is not 325i, 525i, C240/280 and E320? Those account for the bulk of 3/5/C/E sales just like ES and RX accounting for the bulk of entry-price and mid-size sedan and wagon sales for Lexus.
Bull, plain and simple. AMG goes back to 1967 and BMW's M wasn't even a matter of discussion back then.
AMG as an independent shop was a very different animal from AMG under MB ownership. AMG as an independent shop was little different from Brabus from a marketting point of view . . . as you can see, nobody really cares about what Brabus offers in the last few thousand posts. MB's acquisition of AMG was a direct response to BMW M's success. Adding horsepower and adding torque is nothing more than what carmakers do since the late 19th century; at least adding electronics was new since the 1960's.
All this talk about Lexus copying others are just old claptrap nonsense from sore losers. Carmakers copy from each other all the time, since the day the wheel was invented. Lexus does not set out to copy leaders; they learn the success of leaders, and set out to overtake leadership. That's something MB is really terrible at. Look at MB's R class, 203" vehicle length but only 82 cu.ft interior space. Apparently the company does not even deign to learn from its own Chrysler division.
Ironicly, it was a famous German (Otto von Bismarck) once said that, "only fools learn from their own mistakes . . . smart people learn from those of others." Lexus learn from others whereas MB is bent on relearning everything at its own expense.
More of the same. The ES is a fwd, blue-hair vehicle. Nobody else makes anything like it anymore. The E and 5-Series models cost way more than the C and 3-Series and they aren't the same car to begin with. BMW and MB don't make a vehicle that targets the ES330!
MB's acquisition of AMG was a direct response to BMW M's success.
See how you spin things out of context? Nobody said anything about how, why or when Mercedes bought out AMG. The topic of discussion was about copying, which AMG doesn't do when it comes to BMW's M when it comes to the cars they produce. Period. If they did Mercedes would be offering manual trannies and they surely wouldn't be making an AMG version of an SUV or crossover vehicle. The topic was about the cars, not why Mercedes bought AMG.
All this talk about Lexus copying others are just old claptrap nonsense from sore losers. Carmakers copy from each other all the time, since the day the wheel was invented. Lexus does not set out to copy leaders; they learn the success of leaders, and set out to overtake leadership. That's something MB is really terrible at. Look at MB's R class, 203" vehicle length but only 82 cu.ft interior space. Apparently the company does not even deign to learn from its own Chrysler division.
All this spin and denial about Lexus copies from the market leaders is just more of the same in the way of excuses for people who can't accept the fact that Lexus learns from, but can't help copy from also, from those same leaders.
All this BS about "core competence", "Lexus ran out of staff" (!) and lumping sales of completely different vehicles are definitiely signs of sore losers who can't accpet the fact that Lexus hasn't hit a home run everytime out the gate. Nothing more than grand excuse making at its very, ill-concieved best. The part about Lexus running out of staff is the most ridiculous thing I have read on here since reading how the S600/760Li aren't luxury cars.
Brabus? Most here don't care about or grasp the meaning of AMG or M type cars so bringing up an even more extreme outfit like Brabus would be utterly pointless to say the least.
M
All this BS about "core competence", "Lexus ran out of staff" (!) and lumping sales of completely different vehicles are definitiely signs of sore losers who can't accpet the fact that Lexus hasn't hit a home run everytime out the gate. Nothing more than grand excuse making at its very, ill-concieved best. The part about Lexus running out of staff is the most ridiculous thing I have read on here since reading how the S600/760Li aren't luxury cars.
BS, copycat, ultimate follower, spin, hype, sore losers, blah blah.... Geez.. Is this your idea of a debate ? Just when we expect you to come back with some real good story about the show, all you do is drag the quality of this forum down with rhetorics. Its 2006, and we all gotta turn a new leaf... Tone down rhetorics and put downs. Doesn't advance the debate. Have I said this before or what ???
Oh, wrt the new LS460, so far I have stayed on the sidelines reading everything before commenting. I wanted to read many opinions and see lots of pictures. Appears that overall, MORE people like it than not. That is good. Me, I got my check in hand now. My search for a replacement for my '99 LS is over already. The newly styled LS460 SWB with its 380bhp, mid-20 mpg, 8-speed tranny, auto park, smart card, 7.1 DTS 19-speaker ML, 8GB of HD space for 4000 songs, etc.. etc... has me won over. Another car that should give the Germans fits... And the class redefined all over again. Especially, if the $3K lift of base price over 2006 LS430 rumor turns out to be true. Can the 335hp S450 touch the LS460 ? I don't think so. Can the 382 S550 touch the LS460 ? Yup. But it will be a battle indeed. The LS will continue to outsell the S-class again, only this time, the sales gap will grow even larger. My prediction... What's yours ?
Uh...saying that Lexus ran out of staff and couldn't update one of their cars is BS, plain and simple. Sorry if you can't accept the truth.
No this isn't my idea of a debate. In a reasonable debate people bring facts to the table, not wild speculation about car companies running out of staff and excuses about "core competence".
Lastly, why don't you real ALL the posts on the thread and see where "sore loser" came from. Wasn't me. You seem to have nicely ignored the facts, as usual. Guy, read all the posts before telling me to do anything.
M
Oh I'll give you the car is very impressive, moreso the technology than the sytling. The interior looks more or less like a GS or IS with more buttons. The exterior lost something from the original concept IMO. The LS460L in particular looks unbalanced to me. Yes the LS will continue to outsell the S-Class I'm sure, but of course a 3K price increase will still put the LS460 under 60K, while a S450 will cost at least 78K. But according to you this won't make a difference so why even bring up sales? A cheaper car in this segment is going to sell more, common sense to me.
On paper at least the LS460 makes the S450, 750, A8 and XJ all seem pointless, but the proof is in the driving and real world evaluations. I don't really see anything unique besides the 8-speed tranny when the LS is compared to the S-Class.
The new S-Class has a new fancy sound system of its own along with a PCMCIA card slot for storing songs, 1500 song capacity I believe.
Unless the driving experience is better than the LS430, the LS460 will only win over those already sworn to Lexus, IMO. The styling is already a let down IMO.
BTW, the Audi A/S8's new B&O sound system might end being better than either MB or Lexus.
I seriously would question who is using your ID if anything from Lexus didn't win you over.
M
Yeah that is pretty embarrasing, ah but this time around you can't include the S-Class because it uses a hard drive too!
M
Take those MB-colored glasses off!
The LX pre-dated the ML by something like 2 years.
Anyway the Range Rover was first. The LX oursold the Range Rover within 2 months of introduction and never looked back. Let's see if the GL can manage a like feat vs the LX.
I doubt the GL will outsell the Range Rover. It doesn't have the interior IMO.
M
M
I think I said this before when the LF-Sh appeared...speaking for myself only, I think the exterior styling is an improvement over the current car, but I'm not sure I prefer it to the 2006 S. Need to see both in person.
The engine stats and mpg are very impressive so I guess I'm enthusiastic about those, but any hp number that starts with a 3 is more than enough so it isn't that big a deal to me.
They still haven't provided that much detail on some aspects of the car, plus I would need to see it and test drive it before becoming more "enthusiastic". As a hopefully open-minded (Lexus-leaning but not Lexus-rabid) person, I'm not automatically going to assume the LS460 is the greatest thing ever.
I'm not all that impressed with the LS460. Lexus PR would have you believe this was the second coming of 1989...It is a nice car, but hardly on par with the original LS400. The original has a flair that this car doesn't. To this day I still get compliments about my 92 LS400..This car is rather conservately styled. The new S Class at least makes a statement. I do find the interior styling of the LS460 of standard Lexus fare. (It was already quite good to begin with) Any AWD option? I haven't read anything about that yet..
However, all that technology is pretty cool. But I'll definitely shop the S Class against it when I trade mine in late next year.
SV
Calling all potential Maybach and Rolls Buyers! Dont buy a Maybach or RR. Wait a bit longer for the best car on earth called the new Lexus LS and save your money for a box of vintage 1936 Burgundy wine that is renowned for its poignant berry aroma and its subtle sour apple aftertaste.
Whoever said posts had to factual?
MB/BMW/Audi/Jaguar have individuality and a better driving experience. However, the value equation is clearly tilted in favor of the LS.
The LWB version of the LS will boost sales. At last the LS will offer comfortable back seat room for passengers that are 6' plus.
The price difference has long been eliminated by MB subsidized lease offers and other discounts.
I must give you credit, very smart you are. My teeth were drawn and I now have no where to bite!
Just for that I'll try my best to wring some details out of a Lexus person if they're around next weekend. One thing I like about GM and Ford they have actual engineers on the floor at time, not salespeople or company "reps", but honest to goodness white-coat wearing engineers.
M