High End Luxury Cars

blkhemi · March 2006

I have a house in Wellesley that is selling for twice the appraised value. In Boston and surrounding areas, real estate is a hot market.

merc1 · March 2006

I see Jaguar has come up again. Uuuh..what to do.

I think Jaguar's proposed plan (per Automobile Mag) to re-skin the XJ into a CLS/Ripade/Quattroporte/Panamera competitor is a smart plan because the S/7/A8/LS market moves too fast for Jaguar to keep up, especially the technology now being pushed by those cars. Jaguar is about style, elegance and pace, 2 of those it had over those cars in spades during their boxy days, but now even that is gone when I look at certain models from Audi and Mercedes.

Jaguar's problems could be fixed with a little (ok well a lot of $$$) more investment from Ford IMO. A small/mid-size RWD platform (that is easily reconfigurable) or "architecture" as they're calling it now should be developed for the next X-Type, S-Type, and that F-Type roadster concept presented a few years ago. Give them all a stunning look, near BMW-level dynamics with a better ride and an exclusive price (while not pricing them out of their segments) and they'll be hits like Jaguar has never seen.

The X-Type failed for two reasons: it was at heart a FWD Ford with a Ford engine, and it looked like a caricature of the real XJ. People expect the one theme fits all from the Audi/BMW/Mercedes triplets, but not from Jaguar. Luxury cars aren't supposed to appear "jacked-up" by physically sitting up higher off the groud at the rear like a hot-rod which is a problem the X-Type suffered from.

Jaguar can place a phone call and get their hands on the new I6 from Volvo, tweak it for a good deal more hp and re-engineer it to fit in a rwd layout and poof(!) they'd have something unique over everyone else (except BMW) in their next X/S-Type cars, a good ole I6. This would do wonders for their image and legitimacy in the luxury car market.

Jaguar is not a lost cause, but it will take some vision and major investment (risk taking) to save them on the part of Ford. Time is running out Mr Ford! In a way I think Jaguar has been cheated because Ford has pretty much done right (in $$$ too) by Aston-Martin, Land Rover and Volvo. Volvo which was always profitable, but allowed to remain very independent when it came the product. There are no obvious Ford products running around as Volvos, though Ford has used everything it can for their cars from Volvo! So far it has been a one-way type deal like that of MB and Chrysler where the European brands aren't hurt. I mean who else besides BMW develops a brand new I6 nowadays? That is called "letting Volvo be Volvo", but this only happened because Volvo has always been profitable according to the industry folks. If someone could convince Ford that Jaguar is capable of this with one more sizeable investment I think Jaguar could join Volvo in adding to PAG's bottom line.

I mean really if Land Rover (so bad-off at one time not even the business savy BMW could do anything with it) and Aston-Martin (has never made a profit according to some!) can break even (both supposed to have done last year I think) then surely Jaguar can do better and actually make some money.

Yeah I know, Ford doesn't have the money right now.

M

sv7887 · March 2006

Hi All,
Finally got the car yesterday. Delivery was flawless, they did a great job prepping the car and answering all my questions. The funny part is how everyone kept congratulating me for being a first time Mercedes owner. Even the Teleaid operator congratulated me.

The level of service at Chambers Motorcars is well beyond anything I've experienced. Even the General Manager came out to congratulate my son and I right before we drove out. 5 stars for them. I plan on writing a letter to Mr. Chambers himself complementing the salesman's peformance.

Now the car:
Wow, it's really big! I realized this as I walked up to it. The LWB is a good feature if you have tall children. My son can completely stretch out in the back. (He's 5' 11")

Feels like you are driving a battleship. I won't be parallel parking with this anytime soon. Part of me wishes I had got the Parktronic feature. The car drives solid like it cannot be separated from the road. I haven't drove it past 50 MPH yet, because of the break-in period. The seats are firm and quite supportive. I haven't figured out what all the buttons do yet.

The features are interesting. I liked the fact you can access the climate control separate of the Comand system. Also, the telephone buttons are nice to have. I didn't like using the touchscreen for everything on my LS430. Also it was good to have Nav info in the Speedometer cluster. Nice touch.

The Comand system can be a real handful if you are a first time user. Within a few hours I got MOST of it figured out. This car is definitely quite complex. It took the salesman a good hour to explain all the gizmos to me. The Airmatic is a great feature, it was good to be able to raise the car 3 inches before any speedbumps.

One bizzare feature: The Front Cupholder looks like a Rube Goldberg contraption. I'm surprised the Germans haven't stolen Lexus' design on that one. There aren't as many storage places in this car, but I guess that's a price you pay for the low profile of the car. Also, I don't see any warning to indicate the door has been opened. Perhaps it's buried somewhere in the car. I still haven't read the owners manual.

The Stereo was great. I couldn't tell any perceptible difference between the ML and Bose system. The Electronic Trunk Closer was a fun toy to play with. How come this isn't an industry standard?

The Styling is the real clincher. It has a real timeless design, much like my 92 LS400 does. I really like it, inside and out. The paint is excellent, I'm really looking forward to having a car with Nanopaint technology. My son will polish it later this week, so it will be interesting to see how it comes out. (The dealer did it anyway, but he has 2 cabinets full of all sorts of stuff to make it look like a show car)

All and all, good experience thus far. I have to say, the experience of this car cannot be adequately described in numbers and text. It's more of a "Feel" thing. If you are thinking of buying a HELM, you should DRIVE ALL of these cars before you make a decision.

Hope this is a useful critique,
Sam

sv7887 · March 2006

Hi All,
Just got some pictures uploaded. I'll only post two here so I don't take up too much space:

Here is a shot with the S430 and LS430 parked side by side. I normally don't see these cars together so I took one picture:

http://hometown.aol.com/SV7887/LSandS.JPG

The second one is just the S430 head on:
http://hometown.aol.com/SV7887/SExterior.JPG

I'll try and get a picture of the 92 LS400 and S430 side by side. That would make for an interesting debate to say which one was the style icon of its time. The original LS400 is undisputably a revolutionary car in all aspects, but how about the W220 in style? Did it significantly influence what automakers were building?

What do you think?

-Sam

benzster · March 2006

I think if you look at the LS and compare it to the 140 Chassis you will notice especially in the rear quarter from the side a very noticeable similarity. Look at the rear window frame and c pillar, rear fender..... The last 140 I delivered to a customer was about 120 miles away. I drove his LS400 back as a trade. The LS was all over the road at 80 mph. compared to the 140. The change to the 220 at launch in 99 gave me a lighter impression. The sport suspension feature helped but you will not get the same feel with a rack and pinion as opposed to a re circulating ball.
Don't get me wrong, I love your car. I just feel as we attempt to get more competitive with the sportier brands we are falling short of the MB "feel". The 140 required bigger rail cars to ship. It was just that large. But that is just me.... the 126 is still my favorite i.e. 560sel.

merc1 · March 2006

Nice!

M

lexusguy · March 2006

"There are no obvious Ford products running around as Volvos, though Ford has used everything it can for their cars from Volvo! So far it has been a one-way type deal like that of MB and Chrysler where the European brands aren't hurt."

That's not entirely true. The S60, V70, and XC90 are "true Volvos", but they are legacy cars. The S40\V50\C70 are based on the same global Ford small car platform as the Mazda3 and the new Euro Focus (but not our Focus.) The I5 engine in those cars though is of course Volvo's own. I dont think this has bothered people in the same way as the Mondeo\X-type debacle mostly because the original S40 was lousy, and it was co-developed with Mitsubishi, so it was never a "true" Volvo.

It would be really nice to see an I6 in a Jag again, definitely more so than a re-hashed Duratec, 3.5L or no. The AJ-V8 also needs a replacement, and rather than spending the cash to develop one from scratch, they could use the same Yamaha sourced V8 that Volvo is using, and like the current "Jag" V6, put in some Jag bits and maybe bump the displacement to 4.6L or more to achieve competitive horsepower. Even in 4.4L guise, the Volvo V8 already makes more horsepower and torque than the 4.2L AJ-V8.

blckislandguy · March 2006

You are on to something with your idea that with Jag moving upstream pricewise, used current edition (i.e., '04 and later) XJ resale values will firm up. For a Warren Buffet kind of guy (buy 'em when cheap but only when there is a catalyst coming to unlock the value) this has got to be a good time to buy a used '04 XJ.

On the other hand, have used Discos firmed up with the advent of the LR3? (Incidentally, it is amazing to me that a 10 year old Disco with the worst reputation bar none of any car sold in the US has such a good resale. Then again, maybe nouveaus will buy anything.)

tagman · March 2006

You are on to something with your idea that with Jag moving upstream pricewise, used current edition (i.e., '04 and later) XJ resale values will firm up. For a Warren Buffet kind of guy (buy 'em when cheap but only when there is a catalyst coming to unlock the value) this has got to be a good time to buy a used '04 XJ.

Glad you see it. Since you do, I'll even go a step further. As we've already agreed, if the eventual XJ replacement is in fact much more expensive, as is a good possibility, then this generation XJ, (which has some of the latest in electronics, classic styling, and improved reliability) is bound to be a good reseller. If, however, in another scenario, the replacement is not a good-looker, which is also possible, then the last of the XJ's would be the ones to have, and once again they would be good resellers.

So, either way, there are compelling reasons to consider that history will show that the '04 and '05 XJ's, if well-equipped and purchased at a good price, will represent a terrific HELM bargain when all is said and done.

TagMan

lexusguy · March 2006

I dont think anyone is saying that the XJ is an unattractive. The problem is, inside and out, it looks just like the old car. You cant say that about the 750i, the S550, the A8, or even the LS460.

merc1 · March 2006

That's not entirely true. The S60, V70, and XC90 are "true Volvos", but they are legacy cars. The S40\V50\C70 are based on the same global Ford small car platform as the Mazda3 and the new Euro Focus (but not our Focus.) The I5 engine in those cars though is of course Volvo's own.

Well I have to disagree there because these Volvos aren't just better spec'd Fords, the platform they share had Volvo's input from the start and more importantly you can't tell that they share anything with Fords. I mean this is a far better arrangement than what Jaguar has and especially Saab don't you think?

I do agree about Jaguar's engines. Another example of how Land Rover and Volvo seem to be getting all the $$$.

M

lexusguy · March 2006

I agree, the S40 is an example of the right way to platform share, and cars like the X-type and 9-3 are the wrong way.

Handing Jaguar the Mondeo and saying "see what you can do with this" was never going to work. The X-type needed a high tech, compact RWD platform if they really wanted to compete with the C class and 3 series, and Ford simply didn't (and still doesn't) have one. It would've been a better idea to chop the DEW98 platform under the S-type and LS, at least that is RWD.

merc1 · March 2006

Everytime we discuss Jaguar on this board there is a just released article on them:

Jaguar

I guess we're not the only ones waiting to see what happens.

M

lexusguy · March 2006

Some very interesting tidbits in this sentence:

"Later this year there will be a cheaper 3.5 litre model, and by the end of the year, a hot XKR. In 2007, expect a V-8 diesel-powered XK."

That means no Volvo I6 for Jag, although I suppose a Jagified Duratec 3.5 would be good for at least 265hp, which is competitive enough. I'm surprised that Jaguar will be using a V6 at all in the XK, as the SC, 6, and SL are all V8 only. I suppose Jaguar wants to additional volume anywhere they can get it.

I have to assume that a diesel will never come to the states, though it would be interesting for them to try.

tagman · March 2006

I have to assume that a diesel will never come to the states, though it would be interesting for them to try.

A diesel XK? Interesting indeed.

I think we are about to see more diesels in general, whether or not it includes the XK . . . which I, for one, look forward to. Don't you?

TagMan

lexusguy · March 2006

Once the "new" diesel is available everywhere, and diesel cars are available in all 50 states, I'd say yes, there will probably be a lot more diesels. California is the big market for alternative fuel, and they cant even get a toehold until they've got clean diesel cars to sell.

tagman · March 2006

We are about to receive the low sulphur, cleaner diesel fuel here in California. That will likely lift all the restrictions. I wouldn't be surprised to see diesel fuel get even more expensive than it already is.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the diesels.

blkhemi · March 2006

Jag used to be the envy in it's class at one point. Cars like the XKE, E-type, and XJS(sans reliability) were all the rave in their day. Now, the company has been reduced to all but doom. In today's auto market, there is no more of the "band-aid" patching to fix a problem, as witnessed by Chrysler(DCX), Nissan(Renault), and as of late GM and Ford. The new-era customer won't accept anything less than perfection, or something darn close to it.

For Jaguar, the upcoming XK is a great start. Reportedly, Ford dumped a bundle of cash to improve quality at Jaguar facilities, when Browns Lane closed for good. So this can only aide the crippled company. And until they get a legit 3/5 Series, CTS/STS, E/CLS, A4/A6 fighter, they'll continue to run back of the pack.

It has to be said, yes the current XJ is a great looking car, but it doesn't have the emotion or character to be a competitive car amongst it's direct competitors.

The S/X-Types are almost laughable attempts at being true competitors. They're both long-in-the-tooth and way due for replacements. I give the Germans and Japanese credit, they know when a model has run it's course. Yes they do refreshments and the usual power increases, but they also know when to take a car out of it's misery.

In order to stay competitive and survive, Ford and PAG must come up with a legit modular RWD platform. This platform must be versatile enough for the ever growing demand for AWD. It must also be able to support various cars from lux-compact to an all out midsize.

Ford is the only automaker that doesn't see a trend back to RWD. They're even making the legendary Town Car replacement FWD/AWD. The upcoming S-80 replacement continues to be FWD/optional AWD. Yet all of it's direct competitors(save for Audi) have standard RWD.

READ: Ford, you can't survive solely on the Mustang popularity and the F-150's all-out sales. Witness the recently introduced Five-Hundred/Montego. The sales have been very sluggish, so bad in fact that Ford says there is already a freshening on the way for both, along with the dismisal of the tired 3.0L Duratec in favor of another Duratec, the 3.5L 250-hp V-6. Thanks Ford, for putting that engine out of it's misery after 15 years of usage. And the hilarious Freestyle was headed for doom before it even reached the assembly line.

As posted earlier, the Yamaha-designed engines are near bullet proof and Japanese-grade smooth. MY '93 SHO probably was the best Taurus ever built. Ford has the resources, why not use them??

tagman · March 2006

Nice post. Of course Ford also relied on the Explorer SUV sales. They had a close call on the Explorer, with the recent tire issue.

The whole picture has become so global. Add in the major costs of fuel in certain markets, as well as different safety regulations in various markets, and different interpretations of what is good style, and it becomes a larger challenge for all the manufacturers to have to keep hitting home runs or pay the penalty. Jaguar needs a couple of grand slams and its batting average has been weak of late.

For Jaguar, it's time to put-up or shut-up. The other expression is quite timely: Ford needs to ----, or get off the pot. It's down to a make-it or break-it scenario.

TagMan

blkhemi · March 2006

I neglected to state the venerable Explorer's sales, which at one point topped 500,000 in 2000 despite the Firestone "pandemic":P.

With all these best-sellers, where is the $$$ going? The once profitable Ford put money back in the pot to create vehicles such as the Explorer and to bail out suffering automakers(ie: Jaguar(1989) and Mazda). With it's colossal force in both mainstream and upscale cars, one would think that the company would be at the top of it's heap.

Example: Everyone was laughing at little old Toyota 20 years ago. Now they're set to overtake GM as the leader. I learned by reading a recent article on the head NA Toyota guy Jim Press that Toyota execs earn less than half of that of comparible giant automakers, yet their quality continues to be at the top of the heap. Add to that Hyundai approaching Toyota-like quality and long term reliability, there's a problem with the way GM and Ford's top-management is conducting business. Were talking about the same companies that started it all, what with GM over 100 years ago and Ford with one of the top 20 inventions of all time, the good ole' Model T.

And you're right. It is globalization. I spend time out of the country often, and it seems like we American's are getting the short end of the stick. Look how GM has took every ounce of characterization from Saab(save for the floor-mounted ignition and "night panel"). Even the Sweedes are horrified that they're beloved quirky machine rides on a Chevy Malibu platform. They gave these people a freaggin Trailblazer as a "performance" SUV for crying out loud. I do give GM credit for resucitating life back into America's luxury car, Cadillac. But even here they short-balled. The Escalade and SRX are going to sell, no matter what. The CTS/STS are great 3/5 Series alternatives. The XLR has made a great place in the steel roof HELM market. BUT.. The beautiful and magnificent Six-Teen among other concepts of a few years back are the way to go. They need to invent a true S/7/A8/LS/XJ/Quattroporte-fighter. The DTS, while nice, ain't gonna cut it.

Back to globalization. Am I the only one that find it quite strange that Ford won't import it's great Euro Focus into the U.S.? We have the great Mazda 3, but Ford needs to stay competive along with Jetta, Civic, even the upcoming Dodge Caliber(which will be sold in over 100 markets) to keep some sort validity in the small car market.

In conclusion, my final thought is this: GM and Ford both need a smash hit like the LX-platformed DCX 300,Charger,Magnum and upcoming Challenger(can't wait). We Americans will continue to buy non-American brands until we get the quality,reliability,perfection,precision,dedication,consistancy,devotion,and loyalty that our hard earned money deserves.

tagman · March 2006

At one time there was a forum about the American auto manufacturers, and what they need to do. Some of your ideas would fit right in there. I don't know if it is still available. I'm sure it would be easy to check. Anyway, you have some great ideas, no doubt.

TagMan

denaliinpa · March 2006

beautiful car. good luck and enjoy!

blckislandguy · March 2006

Tagman, whaddya mean by "if well equipped"? The standard XJ is fantastically well equipped. Sure the V-P has those picnic tables but when was the last time you pulled of the road and climbed in the back for a little pate? I think that color is very important in all HELM resale discussions. I don't think that a white, green (except maybe for a Jag), gold, etc. have a chance. Yet white and green pickups I think do OK.

tagman · March 2006

Hey, blckislandguy, you are very right that XJ's are fantastically equipped even in the standard mode. I was merely referring to some of the extras that recent HELM buyers look for. For example, beyond the picnic tables which are icons for the the Vanden Plas, Jaguar offers some desireable options . . . such as gorgeous upgrades to the wheels and tires (which are popular nowadays), bluetooth, satellite radio, rear multi-media entertainment, rear climate control / window shades package, and other options and accessories. That's what I was referring to. Those very cool features just make a good thing even better.

TagMan

tayl0rd · March 2006

... And the hilarious Freestyle was headed for doom before it even reached the assembly line. ...

That comment disturbed me a little. Have you been in or driven a Freestyle? My experience with one was quite positive. It's a fairly good looking vehicle in comparison to other SUVs on the market and appears to be fairly well put together. The interior is top notch. On first contact, I couldn't believe it was a Ford. Then again, I hadn't "driven a Ford lately. :P " It's very practical, comfortable, and feature-filled. I tried to get the other half to buy one, but she's a diehard Hondaphile and went with a Pilot instead. But anyway, I don't think you or anybody else is giving the Freestyle a fair shake.

Now about Cadillac having a competitor to the S-class, 7-series, et al. Those cars would be well beneath the Sixteen. The Sixteen is a car that would go directly at the jugular of Maybach, Bentley, and Rolls. (sounds like a lawfirm. :P ) I think they should push the STS up to be the S-class/7-series competitor, put the CTS up to be the E-class/5-series competitor, and put some drive wheels on the rear of the BLS and bring that over to be the 3-series competitor.

I'm just sayin', is all...

scott1256 · March 2006

Newport Engineering in Placentia, California has built HELM convertibles for many years. They are now building open versions of the Maybach 62 and RR Phantom.

These are massive convertible sedans! First link is for the Maybach, second for the Phantom.

http://www.newportconvertible.com/Detail.tpl?rnd=2182&cart=11431389263745587&sku- =107592474313380200

http://www.newportconvertible.com/Detail.tpl?rnd=3397&cart=11431389263745587&sku- =1063920620712947

tagman · March 2006

BMW never stops amazing me. Here's a little blurb about the hydrogen-powered 7-series to come within only two years.

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=6872&categoryId=21

I also noticed that the short article mentioned that BMW intends to have ALL it's cars available with hydrogen motors as a long term goal.

TagMan

tayl0rd · March 2006

Eww! Those cars are horrendous. That Rolls is okay since they (used to) make a convertible Rolls, anyway. Everything else is just awful looking.

scott1256 · March 2006

IMO both the RR Phantom and Maybach 62 look very stately as convertibles.

lexusguy · March 2006

I think the biggest problem with the Freestyle is that ol' duratec trying desperately to move its 4111lbs. with just 203hp. It might have a CVT, but its still a very old dog. If you want one, you better grab one while they're still here. Despite being launched for '05, its already curtains for the Freestyle.

blkhemi · March 2006

Sorry for the disturbance, altho I still maintain my valid point. Ford once again short-changed a perfect car in the powertrain department. The Freestyle, while interesting, doesn't quite have the get-up-and-go and smoothness that's necessary even in the mainstream model cars.

And yes, I've driven one(fully-loaded) as a rental last February when I was stranded 1800 miles away from home because no flights were coming in/going out of Boston Logan Airport due to blizzard-like conditions. I admired the Limited model's well executed interior assembly and greatly appointed cabin, albeit not quite Pacifica nice. But that 3.0L Duratec and CVT has gotta go, no question about it. What do you think is going on with the Five-Hundred/Montego right now? The same thing. Ford pretty much cannibalized their future right from the jump. The 21st century average-Joe customers are more interested in powertrains than they were a decade ago, so you either put up or shut up. Chrysler barely got away with trying to slide the Pacifica into market with the hopes of customers flocking to them. They did, in the second model year because Chrylser out-priced it and the powertrain wasn't what the price afforded it to be. The R-Class Mercedes is sure to be low volume as it's R500 model tops $70k; GL-Class territory. Caddy seems to have hit it on the nail in the low-roof/crossover market. Having oustanding V-6/V-8 powertrains, RWD/AWD, versatility, and extremely good quality inside and out.

If you re-read my post, I stated that "concept(s) like the Six-Teen of a few years back" would've been formidable opponents against the rivals. The STS shouldn't move upmarket or grow in size because it's been known as a luxury mid-size since 1992. No, Caddy needs to create a from-scratch RWD/V8, full-size, $60k-$90k automobile to be successful. They are ready to play in this price range as witnessed by the increasing orders of the amazing XLR-v($100k) and the good start of sales of the STS-v($69k). GM has 3 new platforms in the works, RWD to support the upcoming Camaro, another crossover unit, and a undisclosed "high luxury" variant. Let's wait and see what happens.

P.S.- The buying public aren't the people not giving the Freestyle "a fair shake". It is the Ford "engineers" who think the consumer is willing to trade refinement and power for a pretty interior. It ain't gonna work.

designman · March 2006

BMW intends to have ALL it's cars available with hydrogen motors as a long term goal.

Them and everyone else. Anything with hydrogen attached sounds impressive on the surface because it produces zero emissions and because it is an abundant natural element.

But BMWs effort here is BS, a specious effort to appear on the leading edge of technology. Theyve had that PR hydrogen ICE 7-series going for some time now. And Toyota has been right in there too. A hydrogen ICE is easy to create, not high tech. But their hands are tied. The problem is you dont just create a hydrogen infrastructure overnight. The stuff is very hard to manufacture in quantity. Hydrogen is the long term answer for fuel problems but its very far down the road due to the problems producing, distributing and containing it. Fuel cells will make it well before hydrogen ICE.

If BMW puts out a 7-series in two years that runs on both hydrogen and gas, it will sell to only a very limited and novel market. People who buy it will never get to use it with hydrogen unless they live near one of the few (fewer than 5?) filling stations that exist in the US. And even then, the size of the gas tank will probably be too small to get the range on hydrogen that we are use to with gas.

By the way, contrary to popular belief hydrogen is a safe fuel with regard to flammability because it requires a very precise ratio of oxygen to ignite. I believe there are more safety concerns with the pressure required to transport and contain it.

tagman · March 2006

Them and everyone else.

So, designman, if BMW's approach is just to keep them in the recognition game, who's really ahead in the pursuit of a true hydrogen powered vehicle? Initially, Honda comes to my mind . . . what do you think?

TagMan

designman · March 2006

if BMW's approach is just to keep them in the recognition game, who's really ahead in the pursuit of a true hydrogen powered vehicle?

No one. Mainstream hydrogen ICE production cars arent going to happen, at least not anywhere in our lifetime. It will be hydrogen fuel cells and fuel-cell/electric hybrids first and theyll have to trickle in. But its totally out of the hands of the auto manufacturers due to the enormity of the hydrogen production requirements. Lots of hydrogen vehicles have already been produced, but its all PR at this point manufacturers showing that they are capable, proactive and ready to go.

The thought of a hydrogen economy is so cool, but I think it will require collaboration and cooperation between government and business on a massive level.

tagman · March 2006

The thought of a hydrogen economy is so cool, but I think it will require collaboration and cooperation between government and business on a massive level.

Exactly. The infrastructure and distribution are key. My take on this is that there is already a massive fuel distribution infrastructure in place. Hence, our friends the "oil" guys will be in the perfect position to inherent the job of hydrogen distribution. Without sounding "left-wing", which I am not, from a business standpoint it is obvious that the "oil" companies already have an enormous amount of power and presence. No one lets that kind of thing go. The transition will be done in a manner that keeps them in place . . . at the very least as a major player. It's not politics I'm talking . . . it's basic business 101. So . . . it also needs to be profitable enough for them to make the transition. That's where government incentives and technological advancements enter the picture.

BTW, I am looking forward to the debut of the Lexus LS600h at the NY Auto Show, April 12. I have no chance of being there, but I know there will tons of press coverage on this. I am a hybrid fan, as well as a huge diesel fan.

TagMan

designman · March 2006

BTW, I am looking forward to the debut of the Lexus LS600h at the NY Auto Show, April 12. I have no chance of being there, but I know there will tons of press coverage on this. I am a hybrid fan, as well as a huge diesel fan.

Yep. I will try to make it there this year. I think the alternate-energy efforts are great. Im looking to see how performance will assimilate this stuff, and am particularly interested in what will come out of the VW/Porsche partnership which, by the way, is a very strong bond. Theres a good article in the April issue of Excellence on this, that is, the business relationship, not the hybrid venture.

blckislandguy · March 2006

RE: a pretty interior vs. a poor drivetrain.

Gee, this reminds me of the last 20 years of GM SUVs. The difference is that GM thought the reverse and offerred a lousy interior with a decent powertrain.

RE: The Pacifica

While I didn't quite follow your post, I think that the Pacifica has the styling to take aim at the Volvo/Audi/BMW AWD crowd IF it would just move upscale a little with great leather/Bose/bun warmers/ zenons and nav, etc. (How about a Coach Leather edition with all of the preceding?)

Take a look at the Caddy comparable and both it AND the customer's inside are upscale. Something that doesn't scream "rental" or "fleet". Not so with the Pacifica who IMHO attracts a significantly lower income crowd. (While there is nothing wrong with that, it doesn't build the brand nor make for good margins.)

PS I hope you closed on your Wellesley house. According to the Globe sales and prices are significantly off.

blkhemi · March 2006

Interesting post, and yes I did sell the house in Wellesley, for about 180k above asking price.

houdini1 · March 2006

I wonder if they might just stick a diesel in the Pacifica? Mercedes must have a few lying around.

blkhemi · March 2006

It would be nice, but I don't think the Pacifica's FWD-biased platform, which is loosely based on the Caravan/T&C platform, would support a diesel. The 2.7L or 3.2L CDI are very efficient TD's. I had the chance to drive a CDI-equipped E-Class when I took the wife's CLS55 in for service. This car totaly eliminates all of those past problems associated with diesels(loud,smokey,gruff-only when cold). This car was just as refined and smooth as a regular E320/350, while returning 35mpg. And it's cheaper by about $2k over the E350. A real bargain.

For now. I say this because I haven't read anything about Merc converting the 3.2 into low-sulfur acceptable. And 2007 is the deadline. This is why VW has halted imports of the wonderful T'egg TDI, what with it's massive 553 lb-ft of torque.

I too am a huge fan of alternative fuel sources. I don't care who gets it done first, Honda or BMW, I just hope we have the cure before we use all of what's left in the ground. Toyota seems to be on the right track, even tho the Prius among others aren't returning the estimated city mpg. Who cares about being 5 mpg off? It still returns over 40 mpg. And to add they've promised to have a hybrid version off all of their models(both Toyota and Lexus) by decade's end. I guess they've finally got enough HSD hard/software to support every model, including the full-size Tundra/Sequoia.

Hydrogen. Fuel-Cell. Electric. Ethanol/E85. I'll take any over visiting the pump 3 times a week.

houdini1 · March 2006

I think the Merc diesels can handle the clean diesel without any mods. As in Europe. It would be nice to get 40 mpg and have a cruising range of 800 miles or so. I would like to see a diesel C class.

Some theories say that the dinos really didn't make the oil but that it is just a natural occuring substance caused by pressure, tidal forces, etc. Many times they go back to an old well that has been pumped dry and guess what!! The oil is magically back! I sure hope that is true!

greenbelt · March 2006

I guess I am confused. I understood that Europe had been on low sulfur fuel(less than 50 ppm sulfur) for sometime. And the EU is mandating ULS (less than 10ppm). Mercedes and other diesel car/truck makers having been meeting or exceeding this for some time.

I thought that the problem here is that the diesel fuel isn't even low sulfur event and correspondingly the Diesels from dont run well on the crap that comes out of the pumps here ...

blkhemi · March 2006

The diesel in the States as of right now isn't low-sulfur. And the cars we get from Europe, and elsewhere, are designed to run on what we have here. So it should be an easy swap from high to low sulfur fuel, especially since they've had in Europe for years.

The EPA and DOT has mandated that ALL diesel-powered automobiles must be able to certify under the increasingly harsh emission laws of California and NE states, by 2007, next M/Y. And this has thrown a fork in the road for many automakers, both here and abroad.

Makers like Mercedes and VW have diesels that can certify under this new "clean-air ACT". The CDI's and TDI's are very efficient and reliable engines, and I hope that both companies continue to work on bringing more into the U.S.

syswei · March 2006

Actually, EPA recently decided to push back the new diesel requirements to 2009. article here for subscribers to the WSJ.

blkhemi · March 2006

Thanks for the article. Maybe we can enjoy these wonderful engines for a little longer.

blckislandguy · March 2006

Not only is the MB E Series diesel a bargain, it is faster 0-60 than the gas version. Don't think you can get it in Fourmatic, though. (That could be a keeper: a diesel E Class with fourmatic.)

merc1 · March 2006

You will be able to get "4Matic" on the new 2007 E320 CDI because the V6 engine layout frees up some crucial space compared to the old I6 engine.

M

sv7887 · March 2006

Hi All,
That E320 CDI is one heck of a car. Once it becomes MA compliant I can see those cars flying off the lot. My salesperson told me that Diesel owners are an odd lot. Apparently there are wait lists for Diesel trade-ins, and they don't care whether it has a 100K on the clock or not.

That says a lot about the durability of those cars. I'd prefer the 4 Matic option, but I've heard those old I-6 Diesels go on forever. Is there any reason to believe the new Diesel engine won't be as durable?

One interesting thing about my new S Class:
The Lady who gives the Navigation instructions sounds really mean. The Lexus lady was more forgiving if you made a mistake. I'm sort of expecting the system to say, "Nein! Nein! You are Idiot! Turn off car and wait for Mercedes to repossess it from you! You are too stupid to drive this car"

It has some weird quirks: There is no way to know the door is open if the car is at a standstill. We spent 20 minutes looking for the gas cap release. Much to my surprise there isn't one. It locks itself when you lock the car. As I've mentioned before, the cupholder is one of the weirdest I've ever seen.

Otherwise the car is great. It's not as quiet as my LS400, but it is more involving and sure-footed on the highway. It's good to have both makes of car. You get a distinct experience out of each one.

-Sam

upuaut · March 2006

IMHO I don't think Diesel here in North America is "crap" as far as I understand it Sulphur in Diesel is a lubricant, and so is not harmful to the engine in the higher doses we have here, it is actually good for the engine. I am not sure of the reason European diesels (excep VW and MB diesels being sold here) cannot run on it, must cause some kind of problem. of cousre, high sulphur fuel causes more crap to come out the tailpipe, I agree with you there.

Speaking of MB diesels, I frienD of mine just bought an R class, nice people mover but I wonder why no diesel option?

lexusguy · March 2006

It is a German car after all, I would be really surprised if the NAV lady was sweet and understanding. Germany isn't really known for that. They're known for being ambitious and misunderstood.

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