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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    A pet cat is agile and quick, but a tiger is something much more.

    While your point about the IS350 is understood, as it really is a pretty good handler for a Lexus, and it is "tossable with 4 doors" . . . a darn good achievement, IMO . . . but, as I see it, it is NOTHING like the Mercedes CLS AMG in terms of top-of-the-scale capabilities.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The 996 911 and previous Boxster had pretty terrible interiors.

    So true!
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    That was a nice video of the IS350 being tossed around some. But not quite the level of the CLS... Looked like the latter had a far more stable ride, and flat cornering agility than the IS350. Could an LS do that ? I highly doubt that....

    And if that rumor of a VDIM-kill switch goes into the '07 IS, that would be outstanding. Any ideas if they'd toss in a 6-MT as well ?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Oh definitely. The IS350 is now fully competitive with the C350 and 330i, but to compete with the CLS AMG, Lexus would have to take the V-10 from the LF-A, cram it into the GS's engine bay, rip out the E-steering, and completely re-engineer the suspension. Seems unlikely.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The video does show though that the IS actually has some moves when its not being choked to death by E-nannies. If it was worked over by a tuner like AMG or Motorsport, I think its cornering abilities could be greatly improved.

    A six-speed MT IS350 will probably happen for '07. That would be a very good way to try and steal some of the new G's thunder, especially if it doesnt launch with a MT option, as was the case for the initial '03 launch.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The 996 911 and previous Boxster had pretty terrible interiors.

    So true!

    Alright Lexusguy and Tagman, the two of you are really hitting home and stepping on my toes now. You’re talking about one of my cars here. I’m allowed to criticize others’ cars but you can’t criticize mine. Those are the rules. ;-)

    Anyway, the stock materials in the 996/986 interiors were the pits. However, the design is superior to the current models IMO. The shapes and lines in the former were far more sophisticated in my opinion and the opinion of many others.

    Regardless, I could really care less about Porsche interiors and most Porsche enthusiasts feel the same way. The interiors from the 993 backward looked like military Jeeps. When you drive a Porsche, the only thing that matters is the drivetrain, steering, suspension and sound of the engine and exhaust. And those who don’t know this might not make it through their lease without luxury withdrawal.

    Actually, today’s Porsches are way more luxurious than they used to be. 911s at one time were basically a couple of roller coaster seats on top of a go-kart wrapped in sheet metal (beautifully sculpted sheet metal I might add). I don’t think you got AC that actually worked correctly until the 996—that's 1999 for heaven's sake!

    Plus, if you hate rattles, kiss the idea of any P cab goodbye. They should call them diamondbacks, not cabriolets. They make it out of the showroom for a couple of thousand miles OK, but it just gets worse and worse after that. Even the coupes rattle. You will always get Porsche owners who say, oh no, mine doesn’t rattle but either they aren’t listening or they’re in denial. Any cars with suspensions like that are going to wind up rattling.

    Some perspective... Enzo Ferrari once said, you pay for my engine, the rest of the car is free. Which brings me back to a point I made a while back, that is, the level of sport is the luxury in these cars.

    :)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    designman - you already know that years ago I've had a Ferrari, a previous generation Carrera, and the original (I was number one on the list) '97 Boxster up until last year when I finally sold it.

    When I placed the response "so true", I was going to add "but who really cares, anyway! It's all about the driving!"

    You have let me know that I should have added that! ;)

    In spite of the lacking interiors in the Porsches, they were and are still awesome vehicles in their own right.

    Your point is well taken and has full merit and almost my total agreement. I say almost because we have to admit that there is nothing wrong with the idea of a great interior in a performance car.

    It's just not the primary focus!

    Anyway, you are right. No doubt about it.

    :D

    TagMan
  • rayngrayng Member Posts: 70
    As a 996 owner, I didn't buy my car for the interior. I bought my car to blow the doors off many [non-permissible content removed]/euro luxury sedans in my neighborhood.

    Sports cars are not luxury cars. The luxury items (soft suspension, supple seats, sound deadening, high profile tires, etc...) in a car cancel out the very qualities that make a sports car like a 996, what it is and should be: a street legal race car.

    A bigger point here is the assumption that you can have the best of both worlds: a sports car that is also a luxury car. The fact is you can't have both. But you can buy a 997 AND an s550 or ls600.

    Designman, p cabs are generally squeek and rattle free. But the hot babes that ride in the passenger seat do make a lot of noise.
  • rayngrayng Member Posts: 70
    Alas the vastly improved interior in the 997 has also come at the considerable expense of considerable price. I also dislike the minature buttons in the central console. While many elements in the 997 is indeed a huge improvement over the 996, I love the simple layout and large buttons of my 996. While I'm not purist, I do think there must be a better way to add luxury elements and features without compromising ergonomics and sportiness.
  • moxiemoxie Member Posts: 33
    they were a quantum leap in design and material quality from the 993 model interiors which had remained virtually "un-evolved" and identical for three decades! IMO there is nothing wrong with the 996/86 interior but Porsche again raised the bar with the 997/87 interior and has obviously decided to put more emphasis on interior design of their sports cars than ever before.

    :mad:
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Glad everyone enjoyed it! Of course the CLS is my favorite Mercedes of the moment. The CLS has a look to it that other Benzes wish they had when they're all huddling in the dealers lots at night! Yeah the 7G-Tronic isn't up to dealing with anything over 490lb-ft of torque. The upcoming CLS63 and E63 have "only" 465lb-ft of torque, but the hp has gone from 469 to 503. Should be a different kinda fast compared to the torque monster cars.

    I see Edmunds has driven the CLK63 and ML63. The new AMG engine is a masterpiece. Now watch for the SL63, CL63 and S63 with 571hp and 620lb-ft of torque! Look for Detroit 2007 as the coming out party for the S63 AMG and the twin-turbo version of the new 6.2L V8.

    M
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The new Boxsters and 911s are showing up really good with regard to reliability. There are very few complaints so far. In fact I am quite amazed at how few. I would imagine they worked on the squeaks and rattles but I believe they will not disappear. It starts with one, you bring it in and they treat it with Rubber Care and lube the latches, then it’s back again with another, and yet another. Pretty soon, if you are vigilant enough your whole car is coated with Rubber Care. Catch a Porsche after 20K miles without Rubber Care, they sound like a bag of popcorn coming to fruition in the microwave. Maybe if it was used as a cruiser on pristine roads… maybe.

    Lovely lady in the pic on your link.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Moxie… I was very clear to make a distinction between the 996/986 interior DESIGN and the materials. There was a quantum leap in design IMO but not the opinion of everyone. Heck, there are still some who think the 356 was the ultimate Porsche.

    The 996/986 interior design is great, the materials on the base cars are not unless you get the full leather. Even then things like the stalks, vents and cupholders are cheap. And the sound systems… woah boy, are they ever cheap… worse radio I ever had in any car and it appears it didn’t get any better with the new babys.

    I don’t care though. Whatever they do to keep the weight down is fine with me. Porsches are creeping up with weight and I am not interested in luxury Porsches. Like one reviewer said after the 986 Boxster S racked up another first in a comparo… you can feel the money in the steering and suspension hardware. They are also noisy enough (sorry for the irreverent term, it’s actually engine music) to not need any spectacular sound system. But if anyone is feeling particularly generous to the Porsche cause, by all means get the Bose and have the sound garbled even more.

    Perhaps the Porsche owners who read this forum are gonna come out of the woodwork. Sorry, I tell it like I see it, even with my own cars, ESPECIALLY with my own cars.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Tagman, gotcha. There has been plenty of criticism, PLENTY about the 996/986 interiors. I was just putting my thoughts on the table. The standard response to the new interiors are that they are the best yet. On one hand I buy it if one is into luxury, but it does have its opponents like everything else. I think there can be no doubt that Porsche will sell more cars by adding luxury, but there are enough laments because of it. Nothing new, this has been going on since the demise of the 356. Ferdinand designed the 356 and Ferry designed the 911. Heresy, some thought, the 911 is not a Porsche! Imagine that.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Tagman, gotcha. There has been plenty of criticism, PLENTY about the 996/986 interiors. I was just putting my thoughts on the table.

    And good thoughts, IMO. For the most part, we're on the same page. :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Some of these recent posts, including even mine, carry the suggestion that there is an unmixable nature to luxury and performance. But is that really true?

    For example, Porsches are great handlers and therefore we are supposed to be willing to excuse the interiors, since the company's focus has been primarily on the engine and suspension, and delivering us a terrific driving experience.

    By the same token, are we suggesting that we should excuse a reasonable lack of performance by Lexus, just as an example, because the focus is on luxury and reliability?

    I guess it all leaves me with these two questions:

    1.) Should we really be so forgiving if there is a lack of luxury in a performance car . . . or conversely a lack of performance in a luxury car?

    2.) If we would really prefer BOTH, then which cars are the best at simultaneously delivering BOTH performance and luxury?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    has to be one of the biggest rip-offs in high-fi history.
    I really don't care about a car's audio system because I hardly use it, but just knowing a manufacturer would stoop so low to include a Bose system in its vehicle, would be a deal-breaker for me. There are simply too many better choices out there than to settle for Bose.
    Nice to see BMW is starting to use Carver speakers.

    Go Elliot! (one of my 2 original picks still in the running).
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I think that to have luxury a car has to have a certain amount of weight, and for performance less weight...It would seem to me that the interior materials and fit and finish could and should be held to a high level on both types of cars...Tony
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I had nothing but problems with both of my Bose-equipped cars ('97 Caddy STS and '94 Infiniti Q45). The speaker clarity pretty much sucked in comparison to the then harmon/kardon and Nakimichi(spl?) systems offered by BMW and Lexus of the day. The Caddy required total audio replacement after only 44k miles, of course in warranty, but that's still awfully quick.

    In comparison, my B&O 18 speaker system in my W-12 is unbelievable. It sounds as if you're in a stadium. I still haven't cranked it past half the volume scale, in fear of going deaf and busting out all of my windows at once.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The BMW Z4's audio system has just been THX certified-a very high standard.
    Carver speakers-10 of them in a 2 seater, no less!
    Hopefully, this trend will continue throughout the entire BMW line.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I've read that this new locomotive of a car will reportedly get to 60 in 3.8 seconds. Now according to my calculations, and if I'm correct, this will put this car faster than the Flying Spur, which will destroy their claim of "the fastest production 4-door car ever", albeit they will still govern it at 155 mph, while the FS goes up to 200.

    I do have one reservation on this though. I'm a past owner of a '05 S65. I tried everything in my power to get this thing to hook up on launch, but even the slightest lurch of the pedal sent the car adrift. And with torque numbers rising even still, I'd imagine it'll be harder to get it going in a hurry. Maybe M-B has done some calibrations with the TRAC and ABC to get it to hook up earlier, but once under way, there is no stopping this car. The quickest time I posted at Willow Springs was 4.45 seconds, and I'm a novice.

    I did notice however that MB is using the 7-G in this car, as opposed to the excellent but dated 5-speed auto. It's been said that the AMG-spec 7-G trannies share only 20% of internal parts with the less powerful models, in order to keep from shredding them apart.

    So Mercedes has once again set the bar even higher in the hp wars. With this latest Mercedes only seeing a modest weight gain, better electronics, and a more refined chassis, I see no reason why it shouldn't keep it's "speed" crown in it's class.

    BTW, if anyone was paying attention, that 3.8 seconds to 60 is very close to the current SL65, which is over 600 pounds lighter.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    As much as I generally dislike the company, they have done a few car stereos that are quite decent. The top level system in the Infiniti M, for example, is excellent. The home division on the other hand.. dont even get me started.

    Interesting choice in Carver. Their ribbons of old were quite legendary in their day, but they aren't really known for speakers, or much of anything these days. I wonder why they didnt go with a German company, like Canton?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, the Z4's Carver 10 speaker system has been THX certified-so it must be quite good.
    I would love to see Denon used for an integrated vehicle audio system-they put Bose to shame!
    I have a Denon home audio system coming within a few days to go with my 32" XBR.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I owned a 760iL last year, and if these new speakers are better than the ones that were in that car, which were incredibly clear and umm.... LOUD, then the THX-ceritfied units are sure to even cause temparary hear loss in rock musician.

    I had a chance to listen to this system in a Lincoln LS, which is probably the best part of the car, and it was mind blowing.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes-it has been used in the Lincoln Zephyr.
    Good to see BMW doing this what with the ML audio systems in Lexus vehicles.
    They have to keep up.
    HK just doesn't cut it anymore!
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Nice, new thread. Refreshing to get away from the M/B vs. Lex debate.

    I find it interesting that some think that the Bose system is a rip off. It could be for all I know.

    When I bought my Porsche in December, 05 I clearly heard a difference in the $1200 Bose surround sound upgrade vs. the standard system. I went for the standard system though thinking that my listening tastes (country, right wing talk radio) and 61 year old ears which spent a whole year up close and personal with a mortar tube some 40 years ago wouldn't appreciate it. Now I regret it. Do you think that for $1200 I could get a meaningful aftermarket upgrade? Or would I be paying high retail for junk installed by a 20 something who will make a mess of the electrics?
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    which cars are the best at simultaneously delivering BOTH performance and luxury?

    Depends on how one defines luxury. To me, a luxury sedan should be as quiet as possible. But when we discussed CVTs, merc1 seemed to feel that even a luxury car should "sound" like a car, at least under acceleration. Nothing wrong with that view, it is just a personal preference.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Sorry. I don't know, but Lincoln is offering this great audio system as a $995 option on the Zephyr and BMW, $875 on the Z4, which sounds like a steal to me.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Tagman, is there any doubt? It has to be the XJR Jaguar or, even better, the Super Portfolio Jag (blown XJR engine in a longer wheel base edition). Great styling, sub 5 second 0-60 times, etc. etc.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Tagman, is there any doubt? It has to be the XJR Jaguar or, even better, the Super Portfolio Jag (blown XJR engine in a longer wheel base edition). Great styling, sub 5 second 0-60 times, etc. etc

    blckislandguy - great picks, IMO. You and I have already exchanged some of our similar preferences, and I thank you.

    There are others too, however, and I'm curious to hear what they will be.

    For example, is it entirely possible that merc will pick the CLS AMG?

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Your car will arrive this fall: The all-new Audi S8. You can have your cake and eat it too. What's not to like. A turbine-smooth V-10 that rips to 60 in 4.8 secs, a ride/handling package so good at delivering track performance yet being able to be used as a daily driver, and the legendary Audi luxury.

    With a base of $96k, sure it's pricey, but worth every buck. Before the riot begans, Audi isn't the only one. The latest MB AMG cars deliver on the promise on daily transport and sporting fun wrapped in a luxurious package so good you'll ask; Who to make the $180k check out to?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    $1200 can get you a superb aftermarket upgrade, provided you go to the right place. Circuit City will sell you garbage installed by a 20 something who will make a mess.

    Go to a dedicated, high end car audio shop, a place that sells brands like MB Quart and Rockford Fosgate. Simply replacing the stock speakers should only cost a few hundred dollars, and will give you dramatically better sound.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The ultimate luxury performance sedan is the Quattroporte, no question about it.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The all-new Audi S8. You can have your cake and eat it too. What's not to like. A turbine-smooth V-10 that rips to 60 in 4.8 secs, a ride/handling package so good at delivering track performance yet being able to be used as a daily driver, and the legendary Audi luxury.

    With a base of $96k, sure it's pricey, but worth every buck.

    Admittedly, in the past I was guilty of "Audi-ignorance", due to a significant lack of interest, but more recently Audi has really begun to catch my attention as a more legitimate player, and I would venture to guess that others feel the same way as well.

    Along with the '04 and forward new generation Jaguar XJ, it could be argued that Audi is also a winning candidate for the "most improved" award, IMO.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    did notice however that MB is using the 7-G in this car, as opposed to the excellent but dated 5-speed auto. It's been said that the AMG-spec 7-G trannies share only 20% of internal parts with the less powerful models, in order to keep from shredding them apart.

    Actually the S65 AMG keeps the old 5-speed because the 7G-Tronic can't cope with the S65's torque.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The ultimate luxury performance sedan is the Quattroporte, no question about it.

    Of course the Quattroporte is a spectacular looking automobile. Have you driven one? If so, tell me about the drive. I admit that I have not, and to tell you the truth, I do not know why I have not done so. Fortunately, there is a dealer near me, and I think I should make it a point to drive one in the near future.

    Thanks.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I would say it is between the Quattroporte, CLS55 AMG, E55 AMG and something like the Jaguar XJR. Sure their are cars that are more hard core like the M5, but the "luxury" part suffers. Then there are more luxurious (i.e. better riding, quieter) cars, but they miss the mark on performance. The CLS55 is compromised in the back seat area for the sake of style, the Quattroporte's tranny doesn't function well automatic mode for around town driving, the Jaguar simply can't match the performance of the other two. That leaves the E55, performance of the CLS55 with the typical E-Class room/comfort. I think the E55 with its adjustable air suspension answers the question really well. I'd say either the E55 or the Quattroporte. However I do realize that this question will never be answered decisively for everyone with just one car. Then there is the slighly milder Audi S6 to think about.

    Then you have the next group of cars up like a Bentley Continental Flying Spur or the S65 AMG. Pure luxury and power to spare, but how sporting (handling wise) can cars of their size really be? There are others in the class particularly the Audi S8 that stands out in my mind as a very unique car with what promises to be scathing performance with an interior to die for. The S8 might be the best compromise here especially if they offered it in long-wheelbase form.

    I'd say over these would be the cars in the running as the best mix (compromise) between sport/luxury depending on your size/price criteria:

    Audi S8
    Mercedes E55/CLS55
    Maserati Quattroporte
    Mercedes S65
    Jaguar XJR/Portfolio
    Audi S6
    BMW 760i (short wheelbase with sport pack)

    While we're talking about this luxury-performance thing there is a comparo in the June issue of Car and Driver that puts the new S600 against the Rolls-Royce Phantom. They picked the S600 over the Rolls in nearly every catergory except sheer ride comfort.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I have a Denon home audio system coming within a few days

    Yes, congratulations . . . good choice. I use Denon's AVR-5803 THX 7.1 component and it is quite superb . . . literally ground shaking.

    I am not a Bose fan either. It's hype, with some exceptions.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    merc - Nice list with good explanation. The Portfolio is one of my favorites, and I think it performs better than you might be indicating. Also, I realize that the Audi is truly a better vehicle than I have given credit or paid close attention to.

    But, is the Quattroporte really THAT good? Beyond it's incredible looks? Both you and lexusguy have referred to it very favorably, although lexusguy says it is the ultimate and you do not.

    Have you driven one? I asked lexusguy if he has. I have not.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    merc - one more question for you. I've been seeing more new S-class cars around, although not lots, and I am bothered more by the rear trunk than I thought I would be. I thought it would grow on me, but it's getting worse and not better. Otherwise I think the car is as great as I originally said it would be.

    Do you dislike that trunk, too?

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Have you driven one? I asked lexusguy if he has. I have not.

    Heavens no, I wish! What has me about the Quattroporte is the interior, styling, and the sheer sound of it, which I have been fortunate enough to hear close up a few times. The Quattroporte also manages to be something that no other car is in this class - exclusive. Even in the richest of areas you won't see many Quattroportes while Mercedes and BMWs are a dime a dozen. Maser and Aston-Martin have managed to increase their sales dramatically in the last few years, yet you don't see them that often. Even the once super-exclusive Bentley is as common as a S-Class or 7-Series in some areas.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Nah the trunk doesn't bother me, only that rear wheel arch does in certain colors like Silver on cars without the AMG package. I still haven't been able to see one on the highway in order to perform my 2-3 lane test on how good it really looks. I think the best way to judge a car's looks is to ride beside one on the highway, preferably on 3 or 4 lane highway in which you can put at least one lane between you and the car in question. Then drop back a little so you can see the car from a rear 3/4 view while at speed. Then of course align yourself in the same position as the car in question, but still a lane or two over to see the side profile. Thest test will tell you all you need to know about a car's styling, IMO.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I just wonder if the "Q" just has a certain mystique about it that makes us place it highter on our list than it truly deserves, if you know what I mean.

    BTW, the new Bentley Continental GTC is such a terrific looking convertible. The root design is stellar without resorting to any gimmicks. I absolutely love its appearance.

    Let's go drive (I didn't say "buy") that Quattroporte . . . and quit wishing! ;)

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Definitely make it a point to drive one. I've driven the car on two occasions, its absolutely amazing. The suspension can go from firm but comfortable to "AMG killer" with the push of a button. Maserati's SMG is much better now than it was a few years ago, but it still definitely isnt as good as Audi's gold standard DSG. Keep it in manual though, and its a perfect match to the Ferrari 4.3L engine, matching revs as you downshift and letting you use every ounce of the engine's power, for a 0-60 dash in about 5 flat. No tip-tronic comes close.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I just wonder if the "Q" just has a certain mystique about it that makes us place it highter on our list than it truly deserves, if you know what I mean.

    Could be since I've never driven it. I think very highly of it, but for the daily grind and more straight-line oomph I think the Airmatic AMG cars are the better compromise or something like the S8. Then there is the issue of wanting/needing to keep shifting gears in the Quattropore. I suspect that would get tiring after a while and/or in everyday traffic, but for fun and 4-doors I don't see anything topping the Maser except the M5.

    I detest all these newer Bentley's looks so we disagree there.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    What exactly about the trunk don't you like? The Maybach look??

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Ha . . . I like your highway design test. You might remember that I got a highway peek at a gun-metal gray new S-Class back when they first came out, and I was surprised to see it at the time. It looked great.

    There is a new silver S-Class that is in my community and sits about a mile from my home in front of this family's house in their circular driveway, and I'd swear they leave it outside just to show it off or something, because it is never parked inside the garage (unless the garage is full with Bentley and Ferrari or something . . . ha ha).

    But, I drive by that direction over there almost every day and I'm telling you, man, that trunk has grown little by little every day until it is now a monster of a trunk. :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I detest all these newer Bentley's looks

    detest is a strong word . . . says a lot.

    Even the Continental GTC? Oh well, go ahead, break my heart. :)

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I can't stand the styling on these new "Bentleys". The coupe in particular looks like a shoe or boot of some type to me. I think its the VWish looking front fenders. The Flying Spur (or Brick as I call it elsewhere) looks somewhat better, but next to the Arnage these new Bentleys just don't look right to me. Now the convertible I haven't seen in person so I'll reserve judgement. Convertibles have been known to look better than their hardtop counterparts. ;)

    Don't get me wrong these new Bentleys have a presence on the road that shades any Mercedes(save the SLR)/BMW/Jaguar, but they aren't beautiful like Aston-Martins or stunning like Ferraris or Lamborghinis and they lack the old-world aristocrat look of the Arnage.

    Its the same thing I've always said about the BMW 7-Series. It is also a very big, bold, and attention getting car, but pretty or beautiful it is not.

    I am curious to know what Lexusguy thinks of these new Bentleys.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Maserati is working on a conventional automatic for the Quattroporte to make the car more appealing to customers coming from Benz or BMW.

    The Bentley Continental GT reminds me a bit of Jaguar's R-coupe concept from a few years ago. Its a good looking car, but I agree that it doesn't come close to something like a V8 Vantage. Now that you mention it, I can see the VW cues.

    http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-jkl/Jaguar-R-Coupe-Concept-FA-1024x768.jpg
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