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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "The car is GOOD, but not 3-Series Great..."

    Yeah. Someone here posted that the IS has better straight line motion than the 3 Series.

    Hey, sooner or later, ya gotta turn the wheels!
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    the car WILL NOT outsell the 3

    I would agree, provided that one ends "anytime soon" to the end of the sentence.

    The 3 does what it does very well. Moreover, it is entrenched in its position, and in people's minds. A competitor merely matching the 3 in capabilities isn't going to outsell it.

    But IF someone can produce something just a bit better, in overall handling/performance and/or reliabililty and/or styling, then over a 5-10 year timeframe, the 3 can be surpassed in unit sales, imho.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Very possible. However, the wigs in Bavaria will halt all new plans to drive the 3 if anything gets within it's comfort zone. Well, Lexus scratched the surface with 306hp. BMW will counterfire with 310-hp twin-turbo I6 with 325lb-ft of torque, this will definetely take the car under 5 seconds. BUT: What does that mean for the M? We know it will be V8, but what power? Over 400, but nowhere close to it's big brothers M5/6's 500hp in fear of killing those cars.

    The 3 has survived all this time by delivering what it's customers want. The car was long the pinnacle of poor reliablilty, yet they bought the cars continually in droves. The car's redo in '00 erased most problems and thus have infused reassurance with it's customer base, and this is why the 3 only has a 4 day lot time.....
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    which can produce something "just a bit better" than the 3 Series in its price category, will be BMW with the next version of the 3 Series.
    Nobody else will do it. BMW owns the ELLPS segment.
    You can take that to the bank.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Hemi, when did I say the IS would "kill" the 3-series?

    If you would read my last post, it clearly stated that the IS is BMW's greatest challenge yet. That's all.

    I have tempered enthusiasm for the IS. I still want to see the convertible due next Summer, and the manual tranny for the 350.

    The Next G35 is not to be overlooked either!

    When the IS is fully realized, and the G35 reinvented, they should both be putting out 75k units, which will be similar to competing units from BMW. The other 15 variants will give the 3 higher total numbers, doh.

    If you are going to TRY and quote me, at least copy and paste, to avoid such errors in the future. :sick:

    Thank You.

    DrFill
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    You know what they say, "Never say never". And if the Germans are thinking that, they are complacent and complacency will only make it easier for someone else to take the top spot.

    BMW may own the segment now, but they may not always.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    BMW is far from complacent. They are always improving their vehicles' driving dynamics, which is why the others won't catch them.
    Most 3 Series reviewers state the current 3 Series is better than ever. The car continue to evolve.
    They just have to keep Bangle away from those tail lights. :(
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    They are always improving their vehicles' driving dynamics, which is why the others won't catch them.

    All auto companies are always improving their products. But the rate of improvement can vary, and there is NO assurance that BMW's rate of improvement will always equal or exceed the competition's.

    Before Lexus introduced the RX, didn't it look like the ML dominated its segment?

    Didn't MB probably think at one time (like 1988) that it had nothing to fear in the S segment?

    Didn't Cadillac at one time dominate some of its segments?

    BMW and the 3 are not invincible. Maybe the 3 will be at the top of the heap 10 years from now. Or maybe not.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I hope I'm still here to find out.
    If I'm wrong, I will admit it right here, 10 years from now.
    Should be right around that time Tagman trades in his Lotus. :)
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    They just have to keep Bangle away from those tail lights. :(

    Whatever happened to your praising Bangle for boldly going where no one has gone?

    I haven’t criticized BMW styling in a while. I’m thinking about stoking up a few of my rants.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Most 3 Series reviewers state the current 3 Series is better than ever. The car continue to evolve

    My fellow BMW fan I respect your opinions but the real question is what will the 3 evolve into?

    In order to discover where it is going you will have to look at where BMW's R & D $$$ are going. The link below is a good indicator where not only the BMW 3 series is going but where the entire BMW productline is going:

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060804.010/country/gcf/bmw/bmw-late- - - - st-driver-assistance-r-d-developments

    Their R & D is focused on "Driver Assistance Technologies"?

    Ain't that a hoot!

    The Ultimate Driving Machine is becoming the Ultimate Rider's Machine with minimal involvement from the driver.
    If this is the future of the BMW 3 then I can assure you the future 3 will not be in my garage.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Personally I think Bangle looks much better in wagon form than sedan form.

    Based on my unbiased opinion the 5 series Touring wagon is the best looking wagon on this planet. And ofcourse the second best looking wagon is the 3 series Touring.

    Only Bangle can make a wagon look this sexy.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    My fellow BMW fan I respect your opinions but the real question is what will the 3 evolve into?

    Excellent question, isn't it? And what will the Lexus IS evolve into? More power? Better handling?

    Oh, I'm sure no one here thinks that the IS can be any threat to the mighty BMW, and so far I would agree that it isn't much of one, but my crystal ball tells me that the future will be different, and Lexus will step on BMW territory.

    When the LS first came out, who would have thought that it could possibly impact the almighty S-Class the way it did and does?

    I am absolutely a Eurocar fan, but I have tremendous respect for the marketing capabilities of Lexus in this country. The Lexus/Mercedes lesson is one for the history books . . . we either learn from it or we don't.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Go back and read all my posts on the new 3 Series.
    I have written many times that I find his work on the 3 Series tail lights hideous.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, I must agree with you-if BMW corrupts its mission with more driver assist technology-(its adaptive steering has widely been proclaimed to be "a disaster")-such as MB has done with the new S Class where I hear the car can practically drive itself, I would no longer be interested.
    This is fine for Lexus and MB, but would be a total shame if BMW caves.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    mentioned this before on here, but I "think" the biggest competition for the 3 in the future is going to come from Audi. The next body style [09, or 2010 I think] is supposed to come with improved weight distribution and the usual Audi brilliance.
    Competition is a good thing me thinks.... :P
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "Only Bangle can make a wagon look this sexy."

    I don't know about that. I believe the Audi A6 Avant looks pretty sexy!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    If anyone can do it, I would have to concede, Audi might.
    Not that they will.
    Unless Porsche decides to enter the ELLPS arena.
    Other folks around here listed reasons why they won't.
  • allcarsrcoolallcarsrcool Member Posts: 113
    Some people tend to disagree on the sucess of the R-Class, I just happen to think it depends on where one lives. But I think those people did not see that i also mentioned the Chrysler Pacifica which is more successful than the R-Class because it costs about $30-40,000 less. And though the pacifica is cheaper it still has the same basic features, heated rear seats, 3 rows, 6 seats, & a flat folding 3rd row. They both offer the same nice alternative to the minivan. So let me rephrase what i said before. Would Lexus consider venturing into that market with a new crossover, or does the RX already take that spot?
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    Mercedes and Chrysler are answering a question nobody is asking.

    How far do you take the station wagon (Without calling it a station wagon)?

    I would put more R&D into a super minivan, which Americans seem more partial to, than a super station wagon, which Americans think of a relics that are remembered for wood paneling and seats that face backwards.

    The RX doesn't need to change, or adjust to any other vehicle, particularly the R-Class.

    What Lexus should do is make a bigger RX, like the HPX concept. The next Infiniti FX will only get bigger, and the SRX is already that size.

    Truck chassis are in decline, and Lexus has a nice bullet still in their holster! :shades:

    I'd say Lexus knows what their doing with the RX. Anyone care to disagree?

    DrFill
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    Here are my personal opinions on six vehicles which get too much press for their capabilities - do you agree?

    1.) Range Rover Sport HSE - can be out-accelerated by a Toyota Highlander. Even in Supercharged guise the Range Rover Sport only matches the Highlander, 0-60 mph in 7.2sec
    2.) Mercedes CLS - it has less room than the E-class the same engines and similar specifications yet costs $10,000 more
    3.) Audi A8 - gets notice from fanatics about its interior design, but who cares? it is a such a slow seller
    4.) Maybach [short and long wheel base] - very slow seller compared to Rolls Royce and Bentley
    5.) Lexus GS450Hybrid - a relatively large car that's a poor fit for families because it has the trunk space of a small convertible
    6.) BMW Mini - rather pricey compared to Subaru WRX, Saab 9 2-X, Audi A3 etc.

    Source: Autospies.com

    I'm not going to argue much, except in favor of the Mini, with the features, sport, and appeal of a BMW, for the price of a Camry.

    Small, but knows where the party's at! :shades:

    DrFill
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Trying to quote you is akin to going through Chinese water torture, Doc. I never said that YOU said the IS would kill the 3.

    And yes, from what I've read/heard, the vaunted G35 will definetely march foward towards the crown even farther. BUT

    One can't forget the '08 A4(on sale mid year next year), the car that BMW is anxiously awaiting in Germany at the end of this year. For the first time ever, the quattro AWD will be powering the rear wheels 100% of the time until an impending slip occurs, and it will only take 0.05 of a millisecond to send torque forward. The car will also for the first time have it's engine mounted completely behind the axle line, similar to what Nissan does for the FM platform, however Audi's enigines will sit much lower in the bay creating an ideal center of gravity and near 50/50 weight distribution.

    With the 3.2 direct-injected engine serving as the new base engine(no more 2.0T for US A4's), creating 305hp in the process, it looks to be an interesting year for Audi's best selling car in the US.

    BMW knows this and released a statement acknowledging that "our fellow native makers have given us some serious thought here recently in how we direct our attention to our line of automobiles..: It seems that Munich shall not be only worried about the Japanese comp, much more worried about what's going down in the land of Beer. And with the provacative C-Class to bow next year, this class is shaping up to be the best premium class hands down with every maker having new product........
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    One car was completely left out of the relm for a car that gets "too much press capabilities".

    The number one car, drum roll please: THE LS430.

    Long a stable of "purported" reliablility, supposed ok quality, and hushed transport. Outside of that, WHO CARES? Oh the US buyer that purchases it because of it's warehouse prices!

    You and "autospies" have nothing more to do but conjure up a uncompelling list of cars that do what they were designed to do very well, unlike one car I know that sells more than what it promises to deliver....

    I know the A8 shot was aimed at me. But you know I will defend it at all costs, including responding to all of your ridiculous rhetic.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    regarding the Lotus Elise . . . well, on the way to the Lotus dealer I stopped by the Porsche dealer to remind myself of the benchmark. I drove the 911 Carrera S cabriolet.

    The Porsche 911 S is better than Splenda . . . so sweet and without the nasties. Solid, smooth, willing to please, and it does so in spades. Everything is right where it should be and thus it is instinctual to drive it well.

    Then, I went on my mission to the Lotus dealer. Gorgeous facility with such beautiful cars on display. I was surrounded by Lamborghinis, Bentleys, Jaguars, Land Rovers, and of course the Lotus vehicles.

    I was greeted by the Lotus manager and the discovery process unfolded. I noticed that the Lotus Elise traps your eyes in so many ways, as there is a lot going on with the body curves, grills, and vents. Very dramatic appearance and small.

    It's a race car that got stuck in a mad scientist's shrinking machine, but then the "less is more" starts to kick in . . . enough to want to sit inside. Getting inside the Lotus Elise required specific instructions from the manager, and thank goodness I listened. Anything other than the correct way to get in simply will not work and will result in either injury or embarrasment.

    Once inside, it is instantly obvious that this is not any typical sports car. I was in a cockpit of a car that had a purpose. A unique driving (racing) machine, no doubt.

    So . . . I needed to know. I wasted little time. Let's drive it.

    But first I had to exit the vehicle we were in and go to the demo vehicle. Getting out of the Elise is even more difficult than getting in. There is, quite frankly, no graceful way to exit this car, without practice, and even then I doubt it would ever be easy.

    Anyway, the manager pulled the demo out of the facility, and the very second we were on the street, people were staring at us. After a few blocks, the manager pulled over into a little parking area, and we traded places (with effort). A guy that was passing by (tourist, I think) tapped on the window, asking if he could snap some pictures of the solar yellow Elise. The manager said to get used to that kind of attention.

    I adjusted the mirrors, and off we went. The car drove like the featherweight champion of the world. Absolute brute power in such a small package. The sound of the engine is always wonderful, but changes dramatically as the rpm's reach 6K and above . . . unleashing a wonderful sound of serious business unlike anything I've experienced before.

    My adrenaline was pumping as I pushed the pedal to the metal through the first 3 gears, and let back before ever reaching 4th, 5th or 6th. Then I shifted normally in all 6 gears to discover that the torque is missing where the Porshce has all you need at those lower rpm's. So, this Lotus (Toyota) engine needs to spin in order to express itself, and give it enough rpm's and it goes with a fury. The car handles as though it is hard wired directly to the driver's brain . . . just think it and it does it . . . perfectly.

    I had so much freaking fun that the manager let me drive the demo for quite some good part of the afternoon. So much so that I'll be returning there tomorrow to test the limited edition car number 25 "Sport" Elise first thing in the morning . . . right after my Starbucks.

    Bottom line? . . . There can be no reason to ever get this car except to have a bunch of fun driving. It is simply not normal transportation. A Porsche is tons of fun, but is more normal, and practical, IMO. The Lotus Elise is almost constant adrenaline and attention from the driver to the road and attention from bystanders to the car.

    FUN. It's true. Yes, it really is. Tomorrow can not come too soon.

    Will I buy? I'll let you know tomorrow.

    :D:D:D:D:D

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Well, whatever you do, I know that you'll do it right. The Elise is the perfect toy that only Lotus can build. The Cayman S is the clear victor in such things as practicality and normal transport, but you will not receive the AHHHH factor in the Cayman S as you'll receive in the Elise. Best wishes....

    BTW: Did they have any Exiges there? These cars are very difficult to find, with only 3 on the east coast, two of which are, of course, in Miami.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    BTW: Did they have any Exiges there?

    Yes, one.

    There is also one at another dealer 30 minutes south.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I think Lexus has considered it, that's what the HPX concept is about.

    Whether they go ahead and build it is another matter. With the R-Class selling as poorly as it is, and then only with massive incentives, I imagine the Lexus bean-counters aren't really keen on the idea.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Audi A8 in America ? Is there one to be found anywhere ?

    Plenty of them around the NY area. No one wants AWD in So Cal.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I'd like to see the 3-series wagon sported up more and we need the M3 wagon.

    I'm very interested in the new 3-series coupe. Some criticism has the butt looking like an old Taurus but that's fine with me compared with the ugliness they've been dabbling with. The current sedan looks like a prune. The new coupe has more of the low-slung reserve that I expect from a BMW.

    I can't believe the 5-series is in its fourth year. It won't be long now before we see the next generation which may come earlier than the 7-year cycle change. Can't wait until the fruit cart is history. These are the current BMWs I would buy:

    3-coupe
    6-coupe
    750i or 750Li
    X3

    X3 is the best-handling SUV on earth bar none.

    Yep, while the cats are away the mice will play. Oac is funny.

    Here, let's ogle the awesome new 3-series coupe, the next class leader, the despot: ;-)

    http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/futurevehicles/new3coupe?source=3COUFMA
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    TagMan - that Lotus sounds like a lot of fun but is the trouble worth it ? Has the wifey blessed the purchase yet ? If not, you may have some 'splaining to do...

    Trouble worth it? Heck, my wife and kids give me tons of trouble, but all well worth it! I don't anticipate too much trouble from the Lotus, if I buy it, given its Toyota powerplant ;) .

    Speaking of wifey's blessing, I'm dragging her with me, hopefully, later this morning for my second round. If she can get in and out of the car, all should be good. If not, she's gonna want to know what "unecessary thing she can get, too."

    She'll probably want an LS for herself, don't you think, oac? After all, what else could she possibly want? ;)

    Hope all your business meetings go well, my friend.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Here, let's ogle the awesome new 3-series coupe, the next class leader, the despot:

    The 3 coupe is nice, but it's going to be facing brutal competition in the states from the G35 coupe, which like last time, is going to be faster, sleeker, and sportier than the sedan.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    be eagerly following the sales numbers for the new G35 Coupe vs the 3-liter twin-turbo, inline-6 BMW 335i Coupe.

    This is where BMW really shines and is truly in a class by themselves-the ELLPC segment.

    I'm looking for a repeat of what the BMW 5 Series has done to the Infiniti M. Only a bit more lopsided in favor of BMW.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    In spite of how nice Infiniti is, who have they EVER hurt, from a sales perspective?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well I for one would love to see them do better because it would help keep BMW honest.

    But LG seems to think the new G35 Coupe will be a serious threat to the 335i Coupe in the USA.

    Sorry, LG-I just don't see it happening.

    I can hardly wait for September to test drive that twin-turboed little devil!
    Could very well be my next vehicle.
    Yeah. I know. I say that about everything. :blush:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I'm very interested in the new 3-series coupe.

    Me too. I myself would love to see a new twin turbo touring. I think it should be due to happen soon, though probably not soon enough. This maybe a misperception but sometimes I feel my new 530xi touring is slower than my old 99 323i. The extra weight is a real acceleration killer.

    Can't wait until the fruit cart is history.

    I always knew in what BMW faction you belonged to and it certainly is not the Bangle faction. Having said that what do you think would happen to BMW design if it continued introducing cars with no major design changes? IMO BMW would share the same fate as Jaguar in which customers would become quite vocal in their complaints about too subtle sytle changes.

    Some people may not like the new bling look of the S Class or the Bangle influences on Toyota/Lexus designs but at least these style changes gives the perception of novelty among MB and Lexus buyers.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Could very well be my next vehicle.

    Let's see now . . . maybe an '07 Lexus LS?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I am curious about how closely the new LS resembles its blood brothers-the Camry and Avalon.

    I may drive to a Lexus dealer to inspect one and sit in it, but my true intention will be to mooch some free designer coffee-served with milk specially obtained from Angus cows, I'm sure.
    But, that's as far as it goes.

    Have to seriously check out the 335i. BMW seems to have eliminated turbo-lag.
    So when folks around here write that BMW is stagnating- resting on its laurels, I have to laugh!

    Folks, gimmee a break!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    , but my crystal ball tells me that the future will be different, and Lexus will step on BMW territory.

    That may very well be so! But as dhamilton pointed out I think Audi has better prospects in trespassing BMW territory. And let us not for the MB C class and Infiniti G.

    I am not disagreeing with you but there seems to be a bizarre logic in this forum that goes something like this:

    The new LS stole sales from MB, Cadillac, Lincoln and other marques since the early 90s. Therefore such and such a future auto from Lexus will do the same to every other competing model.

    It is easy to over-rate one specific product of a company and glamorize that one achivement to the rest of the products offered by that same company. A good example of this is Google. Most people think Google will grow endlessely since everything it touches will have the same successful results as its search business. In reality almost everything Google touches other than search has been a flop. But still that perception of Google invincibility remains. Similarily everytime a new Lexus model (LS or non-LS) is introduced every Lexican here points out the initial success of the LS and predicts dangers for the MB S Class, dangers for the BMW 5 series from the GS and dangers for the 3 series from the IS. In fact this Lexus logic of invincibility is so prevalent in this forum that you would think that Lexus will soon monopolize the luxury auto segment in North America.(that would certainly be a good time for me to immigrate)

    Protection Clause from future Lexican Attacks: With that Google example I am not implying that everything Lexus touches will be a flop other than the LS. ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It is easy to over-rate one specific product of a company and glamorize that one achivement to the rest of the products offered by that same company

    I take it then that you are suggesting that the LS is the only true success for Lexus? Because I don't see it that way.

    I see the current IS as a hit in addition to the LS. I see huge SUV sales that must have been hurting SOMEONE.

    The ES is no slouch. The SC and GS are a concern, but the SC will get replaced, and when it does, who knows? The GS is still a mystery to me. I think it can't compete well in that class, with BMW 5 out there.

    But, all in all, I see more than just an LS, and I STILL think that the newest IS will spawn a new type of small sedan and coupe success for Lexus.

    I agree the 3-series is awesome, but so is the S-Class. Vulnerable?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    In my community, the ES is a huge success-the Lexus of choice, followed by the RX.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    That's right hp. If you could not afford the GS, then the LS is really out of your reach. Doesn't hurt to go looking though, and dreaming!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Tagman,

    I appreciate you pointed out the above and let me assure that is not at all what I am saying. After consulting with my team of lawyers I have edited my prior clause to be read as the following:

    Protection Clause from future Lexican or neutral GermanCarFan Attacks: With that Google example I am not implying that everything Lexus touches will be a flop other than the LS. ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The communication police are going to pay you a visit every time you fail to properly disclaim your posts. ;)

    You are funny. So sorry if I didn't understand.

    :D

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The only way I would be interested in the LS is if it would be offered in a true SE package like Toyota does with the Camry.

    Since leasing is no bargain, I would pay cash for it (yes-I would try and scrape up a few spare schekels, somehow) if I liked it, which is highly doubtful. But I doubt if Lexus would offer an SE for the LS anyhow.

    By the way, that stuff you are currently drinking:
    Obviously, it is very effective in making you appear quite foolish.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    infiniti serviced i get a chance to check out lot's of cars on the used lot [used last-gen M5, whewweeeee!!] and as well give a fairly close look at the other cars in the Infiniti line.
    [The Infiniti service has been A plus by the way.]
    I think, [In my opinion, and any other disclaimer I can think of to not offend anyone] that Infiniti has a way to go to equal the build quality of the Germans, and even Lexus. The interiors don't wear to well over time, and the doors don't quite have that satisfying chunk when closing like every Audi I've ever been in. Just my 2 cents.
    FWIW, Len I hope you come back, I know I can be a pretty sarcastic sob. If I had anything to do with your departure I apologize. I think this forum is so fun because everyone is so passionate. The sparks flying are the chemistry that keep me coming back.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Let's stop sniping at each other and talk about something interesting. What is the worst helm or even semi-helm that you have owned? I will go first:

    I don't even remember the year exactly but it was around 87 or 88 when I became the proud owner of a brand new Sterling automobile. The a/c quit on the way home from the dealer and things went downhill from there. Acutally is could have been a fine auto except for all the electrical glitches, etc. I still think the car was gorgeous (for its time) and it had a great engine and good responsive steering. It was just that nothing of an electrical nature would ever work. It was truly a maddening vehicle to own

    To show you how desperate I became, I traded it in on a 1990 Mercedes 190!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Ahhh!! I see you are weakening. I knew you would come around sooner or later. The clincher will be when you slip into the cozy confines of the new LS 460 and take her for a spin.

    I also see that you are becoming obsessed with my drinking habits! After a few sips of good single malt scotch, my IQ goes up about 20 points!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    IF the new LS is offered in SE form like the Camry is, I would be happy to test-drive it, but I don't believe Lexus will do it.
    Sort of conflicts with their image of the vehicle, I guess.

    They used to offer a "Euro-Tuned Suspension", but I have never heard of anybody actually driving one in this form.
    As far as I know, it has only been available in the back of some brochure.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Aluminum chassis combined with carbon fibre for its body will make the BMW Z29 very light. The doors will be so light that they will be held by one hinge each. It will weigh about 2600 lbs and with the current M3 engine it can go to 62mph in 4.4 seconds. But that in itself is not that exciting.

    What is most exciting is that the Z29 lightweight engineering will later be found in production BMWs. This is the kind of engineering I love and look forward to owning a weight-watcher's version of either the M3 Touring or a twin turbo BMW 5 Series wagon. In fact a feather-light fuel efficient 535 turbodiesel doesnt sound too bad either.

    image
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Complain about the hunps and bumps of the S all you may, currently, it is the best HELM on the market today.

    Most reviewers agree with that, and I know that I certainly do. Doc, excluded, of course. ;)

    S is THE benchmark at this point in time.

    TagMan
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