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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Meanwhile, most Vettes and Porsches are going 65.

    Not when TagMan is behind the wheel. ;)

    Just being honest.

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    "...and then I had to wait like two whole days until they brought my car back. Lexus stinks."

    How dare they withhold your "solid as granite" LS captive for 48 hours. It's such an atrocity.... ;) :P
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The R8 is already preordered up to mid '08, so a virtual sellout. Audi actually had to ramp up production as they did not know that this car would be this much awaited.

    Some one said something about a Porsche influence. Where may I ask? This car is 100% Ingolstadt-born.

    As to the future optional engines, as confirmed by my A of A rep, the car will bring the US it's first ultra-clean, 50 state legal, urea tank free, racing-derived, 650+hp 6.6L V12 hyper-diesel on a sports car. He also said they're playing with the notion of dropping the new 550hp+ second gen 6.5L second gen W12(based on two 3.2L V-6 conjoined)

    With a price cap of $180k(no doubt not wanting to close in on the Lambo Gallardo, altho it's just as pricey, almost), there is much room to play with here. So you can get a 3.6L 300hp V-6 engine, all the way up to a diesel producing a pavement pounding 855lbs-ft. of torque? Ah, the possibilities.....
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    How many German car owners love their COMMAND, MMI or iDrive sysems? Evidently not too many. Below is an interesting study done on European auto info/entertainment systems:

    link title

    SOURCE: GLOBE & MAIL, Sept 28, 2006

    Euro interiors too complicated to be safe, study finds

    Auto companies in Europe are losing the battle between safety and convenience features, with no end in sight, according to a study released this summer.

    The report concludes that the advanced infotainment systems found in many leading European cars are too complicated to be operated safely, and that there's not much safety improvement coming down the product pipeline.

    The study, done by auto parts consultancy firm SBD, looked at the current offerings of mainline as well as luxury auto makers in Europe, as well as infotainment concepts proposed for the near future.

    Both current and proposed systems were found to be too distracting to be safe, especially in vehicles with menu-based, instrument-cluster displays that encourage the driver to look away from the road ahead, such as BMW's iDrive and Audi's MMI systems.

    "We believe vehicle manufacturers should inhibit functions that are too difficult to perform, or are unnecessary while driving, to encourage motorists to focus on the primary task of driving," said SBD director David McClure.

    On the plus side, he cited BMW's head-up display for vital vehicle info a step forward for safety, but concluded that the overall HMI (human machine interface) was safest in Volvo and Saab models, which don't have menu-based systems.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The R8 is already preordered up to mid '08, so a virtual sellout.

    The R8 deserves that kind of sales embrace.

    As we've said . . . expect big things from Audi. This is just the beginning.

    TagMan
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    The R8 is already preordered up to mid '08

    Is is “really” sold out? By really I mean is it sold to people intent on insuring it and putting it on the road?

    I thought a number of low quantity / high desirability vehicles were purchased by independent dealers...and put on the market at a premium...say 20K? Heard this somewhere...maybe on the internet, so who knows if its true.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The R8 deserves that kind of sales embrace.

    IMO this car screams for too much attention.

    Personally I prefer the "wolf in sheep's clothing" Audi RS models. If I'm driving I dont want too much attention especially from traffic patrol officers.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I find the 07 model year for BMWs quite peculiar. BMW 530/525s will sell side by side with BMW 335i and 328i models. Doesn't make much sense to me since bigger and more expensive models do deserve more power?

    True, but BMW will fix that with a 5-Series facelift, I'd say in the spring with an early 08' model. Here I go betting again, but I'd say there will be a 535i as well as a 635i and 735i too.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I felt the same way when I first saw an Merc E200 in the UK.

    Yeah there is a guy on one my other boards with a W140 "S280". A real tank, slow and all.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well I suspect it won't be sheer power that will seperate the future M3 from the new 335i models, but a serious upgrade in handling and looks. That new Coupe shape is just the right base for some serious body modifications. Wider this and bigger that and the next M3 is going to be stunning to look at in addition to drive with a reach-for-the-sky reving 4.0L V8.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    IMO this car screams for too much attention.

    Personally I prefer the "wolf in sheep's clothing" Audi RS models. If I'm driving I dont want too much attention especially from traffic patrol officers.

    You know, dewey, there is something wonderful about appreciating the limits of automotive design. Porsche, Ferrari, and Lamborghini all immediately come to mind, of course. They are stunning in their own ways, and their performance is exhilerating.

    IMO, the R8 joins the ranks of the beautiful cars of the world. There are others, of course, and I don't intend to list them all here.

    I have never had any reservations about being in the driver's seat of a beautiful car. Sure, we can say it's just the performance that counts, but is it really? The visibility factor of a gorgeous car is part of the fun, IMO.

    What's better . . . being with the wife in front of a fireplace with a golden glow on her face, or being together in a pitch black room? ;)

    Now, on the other hand, if you are describing more "stealth"-like qualities, I definately can see the validity at times.

    Given the choice, though, I have to admit that I'd be one of those that would be very content in the driver's seat of that new R8.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    A V6 Accord with a stick would be my number one pick within that price range.

    I continue to wonder why VW doesn't offer the V6 Passat with a stick. Would you consider one of those if they did? The Passat with its sport package is way sportier than any Accord.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Boy that car is stunning. As always with Audi, the devil is in the details.

    I agree!

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    I just can't imagine seeing this at an Audi dealership. I think it is going to cause quite a stir.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Those plans don't look so too bad for Jaguar. A new hit S-Type would do wonders for the company and their dealers. I said a while back that Jaguar should get their hands on Volvo's new I6 and tweak it to Jaguar standards. IMO the next S-Type should have a 280 or so hp version of this I6 and of course that new V8. As Lexus/BMW/Mercedes/Audi all push towards 400hp V8s in their standard cars Jaguar's 300hp V8 looks overrun. This fantasy I have about a small, rwd platform for the next X-Type and that F-Type roadster wasn't mentioned! Oh well.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    In looking over all the Paris Auto Show coverage, one of the more outrageous concepts comes from Peugeout. The 908 RC Concept to be exact:

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    For some reason I like this car. It has just right amount of outrageousness to it. I think if Maybach had come up with something this daring (but prettier) they would be selling a lot more cars today. Comments? Lexusguy, Tagman and Designman I'll be awaiting your critiques in particular.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    image

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    The gorgeous 908 RC supercar showcases Peugeot’s diesel technology and reveals styling cues for the 608, the brand’s next-generation range-topping car. With its aggressive-looking front end and a pronounced hood that tapers to a pointed nose, the 908 RC is designed to look like a big cat, Peugeot says. Company insiders say the concept’s strong hips over the rear wheels will be used on the 608, which is expected to replace the 607 in 2008. The concept’s 700 hp, 5.5-liter, V12 diesel with two particulate filters will power a racing version of the car that will compete at Le Mans next June. Peugeot will unveil the 2007 Le Mans racecar on September 28, the show’s first press day.

    Autoweek

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "Most Vettes and Porsches are going 65.
    Not when TagMan is behind the wheel."

    Aw c'mon. Rev it up there. You can do it.
    65mph is only a psychological barrier. ;)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Personally I prefer the "wolf in sheep's clothing" Audi RS models. If I'm driving I dont want too much attention especially from traffic patrol officers.

    This is why most Porsches and Vettes I see on the road are going 65 :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    A new hit S-Type would do wonders for the company and their dealers. I said a while back that Jaguar should get their hands on Volvo's new I6 and tweak it to Jaguar standards. IMO the next S-Type should have a 280 or so hp version of this I6 and of course that new V8.

    If the XK can maintain its current "hot" status, and the S-type is a success, Jaguar just might be around in another few years. If the S-type fails and people don't go for the "Quattroporte killer" 2010 XJ, its all over. I think Jag will make it, however. The fact that they are willing to completely redo the XJ after a 6 year cycle is already a good sign. Jaguar can't survive on its traditional 8-10 year cycles anymore. Also, unlike Chris Bangle, Ian Callum knows a thing or two about what makes a good looking car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    For some reason I like this car. It has just right amount of outrageousness to it. I think if Maybach had come up with something this daring (but prettier) they would be selling a lot more cars today. Comments? Lexusguy, Tagman and Designman I'll be awaiting your critiques in particular.

    It is a very nice looking machine. Unfortunately, French cars generally aren't known for good performance, and they certainly aren't known for quality. The four worst automakers in Top Gear's 2005 survey were Citroen, Renault, Fiat, and Peugot, who came in dead last.

    Those C-pillars and that Ferrari style rear window have got to be awful for visibility. I'm also not too sure about that bubble windshield, though its definitely a lot less wierd looking than other French concept cars.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    link title
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    For some reason I like this car. It has just right amount of outrageousness to it. I think if Maybach had come up with something this daring (but prettier) they would be selling a lot more cars today. Comments? Lexusguy, Tagman and Designman I'll be awaiting your critiques in particular.

    Initially, I like the car for the "wow" factor. It captures the eye, and keeps you staring. But then there are those all-important details.

    While interesting, and futuristic, the interior looks like it might be cramped based upon the pics. That huge center console looks like it might stretch all the way from front to rear and looks too ominous and yet pointless somehow.

    Obviously there is some sort of iDrive or COMAND setup that looks very cool, but one can only hope it is user-friendly.

    I like the rear lights and overall balance, and I detect a just a small amount of a Bangled rear trunk lid actually, all nicely done. The lower rear bumper and exhaust setup is terrific, IMO.

    While lexusguy is right about rear visibility, I think the style works here, and is rare for a sedan to have that C-pillar and rear window combination, usually reserved for sports cars.

    I love the vent behind the rear wheels . . . nice touch.

    The front headlights don't just suggest, but actually achieve the "cat's eyes" appearance, IMO.

    The front is decent, except for the side angle, where I can't help but notice the snowplow silhouette.

    We often see artist's sketches that show dramatic sweeping lines, and then the real car looks much more tamed and conservative. In this case, it would seem that they actually built this car to resemble an original sketch. Very swoopy.

    It's starting to sound like powerful diesels are going to be the wave of the future. I have little objection to that.

    Thanks, merc.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    An interesting bit of news on Jalopnik today.

    "We swung back by the Audi booth wearing our investigative earmuffs and wrassled up a product planner from the Artists Formerly Known as DKW, Horch, Wanderer, and by the name the Auto Union is still known, Audi. The question? Just what is the gearbox in the new R8? The answer? It's a modified version of the Gallardo's eGear DSG transmission, the news of which put a pucker on Paukert's face the likes of which we haven't seen since Wert switched lemon juice for Spinelli's morning pampelmousse beverage. However, according to Audi, the evolved eGear will be smoother, which led us to ask, "Will it be more precise?"
    "Yes, it will be more precise."

    link
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Thanks, lexusguy.

    Here's the link you intended to post.

    link title

    There will be some serious heavy-duty testing required of this car to determine just how good (or bad) it really is.

    I'm one of those that is expecting great things. It just seems as though so much thought has gone into this car. I doubt that there is a major crack in the armor . . . maybe just more typical idiosyncrasies found with all cars.

    What do you think?

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm one of those that is expecting great things. It just seems as though so much thought has gone into this car. I doubt that there is a major crack in the armor . . . maybe just more typical idiosyncrasies found with all cars.

    It definitely is possible to turn a very bad SMG ('02 Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa) into a rather good one ('06 Maserati GranSport Coupe). I'm sure Audi most likely has things under control. This vehicle is much too important for them to blow it with the gearbox.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It definitely is possible to turn a very bad SMG ('02 Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa) into a rather good one ('06 Maserati GranSport Coupe).

    Your knowledge of this is noteworthy, IMO.

    I'm sure Audi most likely has things under control. This vehicle is much too important for them to blow it with the gearbox.

    Absolutely.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Given the choice, though, I have to admit that I'd be one of those that would be very content in the driver's seat of that new R8.

    Well Tagman I am a very fast learner and I think I can learn how to be content in the driver's seat of a new R8 ;)

    But seriously the RS4 and RS6 has one weakness and that is weight. Fortunately that weakness is compensated by their potent engines but weight will certainly not be an issue with an R8.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I continue to wonder why VW doesn't offer the V6 Passat with a stick. Would you consider one of those if they did? The Passat with its sport package is way sportier than any Accord.

    Merc1,

    without question the V6 Passat is more sportier than a V6 Accord.

    But the pricing of a Passat 3.6L 4Motion is far above a V6 Accord. In fact the V6 Passat is priced a bit too cloase to an Audi A4 3.2(based on Canadian pricing) and in that case I would definitely pick the A4 with Quattro versus a Passat with Haldex. Also the interior and exterior fit and finsih of an A4 is superior to a Passat

    Last but not least the V6 Accord offers manual as an option. I myself find it surprising that a V6 Passat is not offered with manual (with or without a sport package).
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Here are the first shots of an authentic prototype of the future generation BMW 7 series.

    These 7 series pictures look a lot like the 2009 5 series pictures I had previously posted here. Both 7 and 5 series pictures seem to share the same styling cues like the current e90 3 series.

    I guess the only words that come to my mind when looking at these future BMW pictures are:

    Bangle R.I.P.
    Styling meant not to offend
    Better safe than sorry
    Being bold will only expose you to a scold

    Apparently BMWs may end up being the most conservatively styled autos of the future.

    image
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    What I have read on Audi-specific enthusiast sites (and there are many) is that dealers will have to comply with very stringent requirements in order to receive the R8. This includes a special section of the showroom specifically devoted and delineated for the R8. Also, dealers will have to invest heavily in tooling and service facilities for the vehicle including special dedicated quality programs and such.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    This Peugeot 908RC is nothing more than an automotive version of a swanky Parisienne model walking along a runway during a Haute Couture fashion show clad in a transparent lace outfit with ostrich feathers.

    In other words the car looks very sexy and provocative but not many would want to own it for the long-term.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    What I have read on Audi-specific enthusiast sites (and there are many) is that dealers will have to comply with very stringent requirements in order to receive the R8. This includes a special section of the showroom specifically devoted and delineated for the R8. Also, dealers will have to invest heavily in tooling and service facilities for the vehicle including special dedicated quality programs and such.

    Interesting.

    I tend to favor the requirements that result in greater service capabilities. The showroom stuff, however, is to raise the image bar. Important to corporate, perhaps, but less so to me. It's the service that matters most, IMO.

    It's also comforting to learn that Audi will take the necessary steps to assure that its service can live up to the car.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Apparently BMWs may end up being the most conservatively styled autos of the future.

    You're not looking for that swanky model are ya' ;)

    Seriously, though, don't you and other Bimmer enthusiasts always say it's the drive that matters most? Don't we all know that the interior has already been very conservative?

    This car isn't all that bad, IMO. Maybe less dramatic than you want? But, that seems to contradict the emphasis on driving . . . the wolf in sheep's clothes kind of thing.

    BTW, take a very close zoom in on that rear trunk and you will see that it is still Bangled a little bit, so Chris is not dead, just taking a coffee break perhaps.

    I admit it could use a little more flair, but it's certainly an attractive enough car that will likely perform so well that few will complain about it.

    Just curious . . . do you think it looks better or worse than an LS460? . . . aside from the fact that the 7's performance should be quite a bit superior.

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Peugeot 908 RC

    For some reason I like this car. It has just right amount of outrageousness to it. I think if Maybach had come up with something this daring (but prettier) they would be selling a lot more cars today.

    I like it too, particularly the way it crouches, scowls and conducts the wind. It wants to be minimal and appears this way at a distance but gets busy with some of the details which are more visible in some of the close-ups seen around the web, particularly the front end which has a Dodge and 350Z thing going. I’d like to see a simpler mug similar to the sketches presented in the link below which have cleanliness and sublimity not transposed into the actual model. Overall I think it’s a really good effort and yes I think Maybach would benefit with such an approach. By the way, those Z shards of light seem to be catching on.

    http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2006/08/16-peugeot-908-rc-design-images/

    Audi R8

    Yep, this car pushes the right buttons. My only problem with the exterior is the overcooked louvers that subvert an otherwise spectacular design. They work nicely up front, especially how they downplay and integrate with the fish mouth, but rubber stamping them for the rear is a bit much. Regardless, there is a lot of harmony and the car moves while parked. It is sculpted, dug in and bad [non-permissible content removed]. The side blades which are available in three finishes are also perfect counterpoint.

    Not as crazy about the retro interior but when I add it all up the R8 is still a bold piece, the runway model with a ‘tude, even if it is somewhat overembellished. If I didn’t know any better I’d say this is a concept that will never make it to production. In an age when automakers are desperate to be different and are willing to wear bad haircuts in lame attempts to do so, the R8 pulls it off. I just hope all of those louvers don’t wear me out. The good designs have to endure, grow on you, not wither on the vine—first impressions and visual fanfare are fleeting, not that we haven't seen its basic design before. I always found the slats on the Testarossa to be corny. But I have no doubt the R8 will be an achiever in spite of a slat-happy countenance. We’ll see how it settles into the future.

    ___

    Both the Peugeot and R8 have one thing in common. They are both game-face mean. IMO mean is always a good thing. I don’t like cars that smile and beckon you to have a nice day. Of course with people it’s a different story.

    Have a nice day now.

    ;-)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well, it seems that the smaller A & B Class cars that many were expecting from MB will NOT come to our shores afterall . . . for fear of diluting the brand, according to MB.

    Strangely enough their release in Europe has not diluted the brand, so why should that happen here?

    Mercedes won't sell small cars in U.S.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Strangely enough their release in Europe has not diluted the brand, so why should that happen here?

    Well, we don't get the Audi A2 here, either, and I don't think that 3 series hatch ever made it to our shores. If it did, it didn't stick around for long. If you're a "true" luxury brand, selling below $30K in the US market is a very iffy proposition. The C class hatch did not do well here.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    If you're a "true" luxury brand, selling below $30K in the US market is a very iffy proposition. The C class hatch did not do well here.

    Maybe, but I'm not so sure of that. The C-Class hatch looked like an abomination . . . could be that's why it didn't sell. And when you stop and think about it . . . the rest of the C-Class is MB's largest seller. Go figure.

    I tend to think that, if done well, MB could carve out a successful small car niche for themselves.

    I'll bet a good chunk of green that BMW will be bringing in smaller "Series" vehicles in the near future, and that they will sell very well.

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The C-Class hatch looked like an abomination . . . could be that's why it didn't sell. And when you stop and think about it . . . the rest of the C-Class is MB's largest seller. Go figure.

    Yeah that hatch thing looked pretty bad. On the other hand the C-sedans are mini Ss in appearance. I think that little brother image goes a long way. BMW can do anything small because sport goes with small... and they made their mark in the US with small in addition to its strong presence in the current small luxury class.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The other problem holding M-B back is the dollar vs. euro. Below $30K there is hordes of competition, a lot of it from Japan with the advantage of a favorable dollar vs. yen. A Mazda 3 5-door with leather, nav, and power everything is around $20K. The M-B will cost more, and come with a lot less. Is it really a "luxury" car if there are no luxuries in it?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The other problem holding M-B back is the dollar vs. euro. Below $30K there is hordes of competition, a lot of it from Japan with the advantage of a favorable dollar vs. yen. A Mazda 3 5-door with leather, nav, and power everything is around $20K. The M-B will cost more, and come with a lot less. Is it really a "luxury" car if there are no luxuries in it?

    Now, this is very interesting. When it comes to the HELMs, we know that the Japanese (Lexus LS) cost less and offer a lot of value, yet we are convinced (at least I know I am) that the European cars have additional attributes that are important to us and to many consumers.

    The argument that Mercedes can't be competitive is disproven, IMO, in every class. Additionally, I see a willingness on the part of the consumer, to pay a slight premium for a Mercedes. In my humble opinion it is justified.

    So, if Mercedes' good style, design, and engineering are attributes, then it would make sense to make darn sure that a B-Class vehicle also had that special Mercedes style, driving dynamics, and engineering. But, if they make it look like an R-Class, or the C-Class hatchback, it's not going to work, IMO.

    Historically, many of Mercedes vehicles look so terrific, that I am convinced that the style could be spectacular, and that even if the prices were a notch above the Japanese vehicles, Mercedes could sell enough to satisfy the requirements to produce and import them at a profit.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Seriously, though, don't you and other Bimmer enthusiasts always say it's the drive that matters most? Don't we all know that the interior has already been very conservative?

    True very true. I am not too crazy about the styling of the e90 and despite that I just ordered a BMW 335i. I do like the Bangle styling of our BMW530xi touring and I used to like the pre-Bangle styling of my old BMW323i e46. Would have I bought the touring or e46 if I did not like the styling? You bet I would.

    Just curious . . . do you think it looks better or worse than an LS460? . . . aside from the fact that the 7's performance should be quite a bit superior.

    I dont like neither.I think the LS does look nicer but that in itself is not saying much.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Historically, many of Mercedes vehicles look so terrific, that I am convinced that the style could be spectacular, and that even if the prices were a notch above the Japanese vehicles, Mercedes could sell enough to satisfy the requirements to produce and import them at a profit.

    You are correct and I have proof of a North American market where the MB B-Class is selling very well: Canada.

    I read that MB Canada is very happy with the sales of the B-Class and I see them everywhere on our roads. Also the Smart Car is even a bigger hit in Canadian big cities. Interestingly Smart cars are sold in MB dealerships while in USA they will sell them in non-MB dealerships. I think MB USA is doing a big mistake.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    No manual tranny in the M6 and not even a wimper of complaints from North Americans? This is quite contrary from what happened when BMW tried to offer the new M5 without a stick. A BMW M5 offered solely with a SMG transmission had triggered a major slushbox revolt. A non-manual M6 model without any revolt proves that BMW fans have become somewhat slushbox-pacified.

    This is definitely a disappointment for the new M6 since SMG transimissions are not at all as good as the DSG trannies available in VWs and Audis. IMO this is one big let down!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    You are correct and I have proof of a North American market where the MB B-Class is selling very well: Canada.

    I read that MB Canada is very happy with the sales of the B-Class and I see them everywhere on our roads. Also the Smart Car is even a bigger hit in Canadian big cities. Interestingly Smart cars are sold in MB dealerships while in USA they will sell them in non-MB dealerships. I think MB USA is doing a big mistake.

    Your Canadian affiliation is a big advantage to this forum at times. :)

    I find it interesting that Mercedes seems to view the Canadian market so differently than the U.S. market. Aren't the prices even HIGHER there than here? If so, and folks are willing to pay a Canadian premium, surely they'd pay less down here. Or am I missing something?

    TagMan
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    I agree with you Tagman. A true luxury brand is not necessarily based off price only. If a HELM sells an entry level luxury vehicle (say like the A or B-Classes), then the devil is in the details. In other words, does the entry level HELM vehicle represent the brand values as its more expensive siblings. Quality, etc. has to be executed of course at the same level as its more hauty siblings. Also, it must encompasss a certain aspiration or "coolness" in its execution. The C-Class hatch did not accomplish that and looked and felt like an ecomony car more than a representative of its upper siblings. On the opposite of the spectrum, the Audi A3 2.0T (closest to the sub $30,000 designation) does have the ingredients similar to its upper crust siblings and has the values of the brand. The A3's execution does not dilute Audi's HELM reputation here in America, and has achieved success based off Audi's execution of its brand principles. So, in other words it can be done as long as the entry HELM does not compromise on these values.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    A true luxury brand is not necessarily based off price only.

    the devil is in the details.

    the entry level HELM vehicle represent the brand values as its more expensive siblings.

    So, in other words in can be done as long as the entry HELM does not compromise on these values.

    All well said.

    Nice post.

    TagMan
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    You are correct, my dealer alone has deposits for six R8s sight unseen. They are already planning a special location in their showroom for the vehicle (if they actually can keep one on the showroom floor for long enough), and have invested in the special tooling for it.

    On another note, my S6 has arrived and is getting the final touches prior to my adoption. The attention to detail is stunning and the sound of the engine/exhaust is truely seductive. I wanted to drive it off (or should I say fly it off), but I have to be patient a couple of more days so they can do the tinting, and other little details. As they say patience is a virtue.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    find it interesting that Mercedes seems to view the Canadian market so differently than the U.S. market. Aren't the prices even HIGHER there than here? If so, and folks are willing to pay a Canadian premium, surely they'd pay less down here. Or am I missing something?

    In fact it may have more to do with the stigma of hatchbacks in the USA than with price. BMW and MB have learned this lesson the hard way with their recent hatchback endeavors.

    In Canada hatchbacks and wagons are quite popular as they are in the rest of the world. A luxury hatch/small wagon is likely to be greeted in Canada with open arms .

    InterestinglyFord Pintos, Chevy Vegas and AMC Pacers were also sold here in Canada during the 70s. Despite these memorable turkeys, hatchbacks still remain popular up here in the North. I guess we Canadians are more forgiving than you folks down south.

    Although I must add that it is a pleasant surprise that the Audi A3 is doing quite well in the USA.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    On another note, my S6 has arrived and is getting the final touches prior to my adoption.

    Congratulations! Fantastic car indeed.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Bringing in a stylish yet affordable class for MB wouldn't "dilute" the brand, if done coreectly.

    Take a picture at Audi. The brand was ballsy enough to bring a wagon, of all things, to the US. Very testy. But they have succeeded so much so that now they're thiking of bringing the vaunted S-Line and S3 to our shores as the US market is willing to accept the car.

    As for MB, judging from the direction the company is headed in now, aside from the oblivious R-Class, the companyhas what it takes to build a high-volume/low-cost A or B-Class. The brand sells cars below the 30k mark in Europe and abroad, so why not here?
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