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High End Luxury Cars

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  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    Very true, but both BMW USA and leasecompare.com exclude TT&L from their quotes, so I also excluded TT&L in my posting to keep things consistent. I used the same down payments as BMW suggested and still came up with much larger lease quotations.

    They are very tempting to me, but I prefer ownership for the time being. I like Lexus first, BMW a close second, Audi an even closer third, but I don't really care for Mercedes and have never actually wanted one (except for the time that I wanted a 1984 300SD as a teenager ONLY because it was far and away one of the most reliable vehicles on the road according to CR :) ).

    You definitely got a great deal on your lease!
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    It's for prestige.

    And totally worth it.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    Well I do apologize if I insulted any of you because that is not my intent; I actually chuckled lightheartedly as I typed my post. I think we can all agree that some of the posts here are quite short on logical reasoning; I would not expect anything more in cyberspace. In an impassioned debate with another forum member, even the best of us might let something stupid slip out. You don't have very long before you can edit your post, so it is reasonable to just let the mistake slide and hope that nobody takes you to task for the misstatement (no apologies will be necessary) - this is human nature. Sometimes passion gets in the way of reason, and that is understandable from time to time.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    But if you ever do decide to lease, bargain for the lowest price of the vehicle as if you were buying. Those manufacturer leasing deals are used by me as a ceiling. I have always done much better on my own with my 3 BMWFS leases.
    I saw several months ago there was one guy on leasetrader.com who had the same equipped 2005 545i and was paying around $1050 a month vs. my $673. Ouch!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Don't jump to conclusions. He may have been referring to moi.
    I do believe I have the reputation of being a mild irritant around here.
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    I absolutely love the idea of leasing, but I get a bit obsessive-compulsive about mistakes. If I get too many scratches on the exterior or a passenger spills something on the interior I may end up in the ER from an anxiety attack ;)

    When these things happen now, I simply fix/clean what I can and go about my business.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    jcoby, love your posts. Logical, intelligent and factual writing :D
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    Thank you very much :)
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Good job breaking down the crast test article. :)

    Considering the price difference, shouldn't Mercedes be doing everything better than Lexus, and not the other way around?

    DrFill
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Very good syswei, this will put a stop the rants about Toyota/Lexus making unsafe vehicles.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I have no live-in kids in a relatively safe suburban area, so I guess I am an ideal leasing candidate.
    But, I can surely understand your potential anxiety.

    My last BMW had a scratch put on it (probably from a Lexophile) of about 2 inches in length. They didn't bother me about it.
    But they do expect new or almost new tires, so now I put them on 2 years into the lease so at least I get some use out of the tires in year 3, whether I need them or not.
  • jcobyjcoby Member Posts: 140
    Mercedes-Benz has some phenomenal lease rates featured on their website - perhaps even more competitive than BMW's:

    link title

    All for only 27 months! Unfortunately, the S550 is not included - but I would not expect it to offer special lease rates this early in its current model run.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    As much as I run my pie hole on this thread, I can ill afford to start taking offense at things not directed at me. Just commenting on the fact that, indeed, insults were flying early in the morning.

    I enjoy the Hpowers needling of the Lexites, as well as the Drfill jabs at us. [German geeks] I just went at it with Houdini and his lovely grandmother for goodness sakes. Please don't worry about me being offended.

    And now back to our regularly scheduled roasting...... ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It is a list of the otherwise (meaning front and side) very safe cars, that were poor in rear crashworthiness.

    Are we still on this? Yes, that is correct, and the bottom line is that Toyota/Lexus's OVERALL rating is now officially lower... a small dent in the Toyota/Lexus bubble.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Sometimes passion gets in the way of reason, and that is understandable from time to time.

    Especially when buying cars! ;)

    But it is best to stay with the reason when posting, please.

    TagMan
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    The good thing about leasing is that you don't have to worry about the car's long term reliability, but you have to live with some annoying restrictions like the amount of miles you can drive, extra insurance obligation, and as mentioned before the up keeping of the vehicle at end of lease...
    Back on topic, according to R & T Magazine, the LS460 is on even footing with the S550 in their performance tests, except for the breaking distance. The tested LS is almost 40K cheaper.

    LS460 ............. S550
    0−60 mph
    5.6 sec ............. 5.7
    0−¼ mile
    14.0 sec ............. 14.2
    Top speed
    130 mph* ............. 130
    Skidpad
    0.80g ............. 0.80
    Slalom
    59.9 mph ............. 60.1

    Minimum stopping distance
    From 60 mph 143 ft ........... 130 ft
    From 80 mph 251 ft ........... 229 ft
    Total swept area 554 sq in. ........... 580 sq in.
    Swept area/ton 248 sq in. ........... 246

    Idle in neutral 38 dBA ........ 48 dBA
    Maximum in 1st gear 66 dBA ........ 66 dBA
    Constant 50 mph 61 dBA ........ 62 dBA
    Constant 70 mph 65 dBA ........ 66 dBA

    test conditions
    Temperature 101˚ F .......... 65
    Humidity 29% ........... 19
    Elevation 350 ft .......... same
    Wind calm ............ same
    Location Irvine, California .......... same

    Turning circle 35.4 ft .......... 40.0 ft
    Price as tested $67015 ......... $106745
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I do believe I have the reputation of being a mild irritant around here.

    Impossible! ;)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Back on topic, according to R & T Magazine, the LS460 is on even footing with the S550 in their performance tests, except for the breaking distance. The tested LS is almost 40K cheaper.

    Was that on a short LS460 or a long-wheelbase LS460L? Because only the LS460L can appropriately be compared to the S550. The price would be much closer and the performance results completely different for the LS460L... Afterall, the LS460 and LS460L do not have the same performance specs.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    the bottom line is that Toyota/Lexus's OVERALL rating is now officially lower... a small dent in the Toyota/Lexus bubble.

    Absolutely, it is lower with the new tests than it was before. But is it lower than how people on this board perceived Lexus to be, safetywise, before ever looking at the IIHS data? I doubt it. Few here would have seen Lexus as producing safer sedans than say, MB. Certainly none of the germancarfans. Yet even with the "now officially lower" safety ratings, Lexus sedans look safer than MB's! Tell me you're not surprised by that.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    only the LS460L can appropriately be compared to the S550. And the results can not be the same. The LS460 and LS460L do not have the same performance specs.

    When MB gets around to introducing an S450, it follows that we should then ignore any comparo of the LS460 to the S550, including the C&D comparo, right?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    In my opinion the article did not give the full picture of all the manufacturers and how they compare to one another. The article was focused on the fact that Toyota/Lexus's overall rating was now worse than it had been prior to the new test study, essentially a dig at toyota, IMO, for having most of the worst ratings in that particular study.

    That's how I see it.

    TagMan
  • mikeivanmikeivan Member Posts: 42
    Ratings aside, those brake test results for the 460 are unacceptable. A deal breaker for me, we will stay with the wife's LS 430, thank you. (see how I used both brake and break in the same post, correctly, I think).
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It is not uncommon to compare apples to oranges, but like that crash test, you need to look carefully at the data and understand what is REALLY going on.

    It is more logical to compare similar vehicles, when possible, IMO.

    TagMan
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    It was the regular LS. Why are two cars not comparable? The LS460L is simply the more luxury version of the LS, so it is actually not logical going to LWB and expect better performance. You should be looking for better luxuries...
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Yep, good fun. I was really steamed over those jabs at grandma, but I am over it now. My wife tells me that I can never stay mad very long at anything or anybody. She is right. Somehow she seems to be able to hold a grudge forever. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    a dig at toyota, IMO, for having most of the worst ratings in that particular study

    The point I tried to make in this post is that TMC didn't have "the worst ratings" for rear crashworthiness. It had the worst rear crashworthiness ratings among the subset of cars that had TOP marks for front and side crashworthiness.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Oac, once you drive these a little I don't think you will need any advice. I predict you will fall in love with the Boxster. Gool luck and let us know. Pics if possible.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Very good observation. That's why I have been saying for a long time that the MSRP on MB's and BMW's are completely meaningless, when the companies are subsidizing lease residual to the tune of thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars. It's just shifting money from one pocket to another within the company itself, nothing to do with what the car actually fetches in the market place.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    the bottom line is that Toyota/Lexus's OVERALL rating is now officially lower...

    Keep spinning. IIHS introduced a new criteria that practically snags everyone except for perhaps a few Swedish models. How does that affect the relative ranking of Lexus vs. MB vs. BMW at all??
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The LS460L is simply the more luxury version of the LS

    Not exactly. The significant difference is that the L stands for long wheelbase. The S550 is a long wheelbase vehicle by default, so when comparing the LS to the S550, the LS460L is the logical choice.

    The long wheelbase model will perform differently, so the test comparo data would be more meaningful and revealing of the true differences between the models had the LS460L been used.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Keep spinning. IIHS introduced a new criteria that practically snags everyone except for perhaps a few Swedish models. How does that affect the relative ranking of Lexus vs. MB vs. BMW at all??

    You keep spinning. Be brighter, brightness.

    the bottom line is that Toyota/Lexus's OVERALL rating is now officially lower..

    That statement means lower overall as compared to its own previous rating prior to the additional criteria. It is the additional study's results that lowered Toyota's overall rating... relative to itself, not other vehicles.

    It is entirely possible for a vehicle to get a lower score than it previously had and still be ahead of some others. In this case, that is exactly what has happened to Toyota/Lexus. This is not hard to understand.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    The problem with this, which I know you understand but refuse to acknowledge, is that the 460L is not yet available to be tested. The only thing we have seen is the butcher job C&D did on the pre production car. There were many clues there that told you that this car was not up to Lexus standards.

    This test was misleading and worse than meaningless. Please hold off on your crowing until a real LS 460L can be compared.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    syswei,
    Your perspective is fine, but I think some of the others may have misunderstood the meaning of the article's bottom line.

    The bottom line is the same and will not change no matter what any of us say.

    Due specifically to it's bad showing in the latest study, Toyota/Lexus's newest overall rating has become lower than it used to be. That's just the way it is.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    This test was misleading and worse than meaningless. Please hold off on your crowing until a real LS 460L can be compared.

    I think everyone here looks forward to all the comps. The more the better, as it will give us all a broader consensus view of the differences between these HELCs.

    Some negative attributes of the LS appear to be true already, but certainly it will be interesting to see if the future tests redeem those issues somehow. I have no problem with that. I'm good with whatever the results are... even if they ultimately suggest that the LS460L kicks the S550 in the butt, although I personally doubt that it ever will. It won't bother me a bit. I'm not going to buy an LS no matter what the test results, so if they are horrible or great, no problem for me. I do believe, however, that those results might help others to make an important purchase decision.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Mercedes-Benz has some phenomenal lease rates featured on their website - perhaps even more competitive than BMW's

    Yup and so does Lexus as Blkhemi pointed out:

    Now that $459/mth '06 LS430 sounds extremely good right about now....

    Unfortunately I was not able to get a good lease deal or a purchase price discount on my BMW335i.

    I envy you folks down south for your great auto deals. Here in Canada we have higher MSRPs, higher invoice pricing and not so tempting lease terms when compared to the USA. Here in Canada it is tough to get deals on cars like the MB CL, SL, BMW 6 Series and ofcourse the MB S Class since these cars have very low dealer turn rates . In fact the only cars that sell faster than these luxury cars are Yarises, Fits and Accents.

    Good luck in trying to get a good deal among the above mentioned cars. Especially if you are Canadian :(
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Time to cross the border. ;)
    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Unfortunately if I request a Green Card for a US car deal I will immediately be rejected. ;)

    And buying the car from the USA and bringing it to Canada can be a real headache. Duty/customs costs in terms of time and money, warranty issues and metric conversions.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    How 'bout a permanent move to the good 'ol USA?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Eh are you kidding ? I love the snow and ice up here too much. Unless I move to Alaska ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    With the melting pot California has now become, you'd be a Canadian Hero amongst us. ;) Plenty of snow in the Sierras. World-class skiing. Nice thing is that if you get tired of the snow and ice, you can drive a few hours and be back at the beach... or the other way around. :)
    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Wow that does sound persuasive. Now I know why our Canadian celebrities flock to Hollywood. :shades:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Unfortunately, that $459. a month lease does not exist here either, unless you pay $40,000. up front. I think someone just made that up. If true I would lease a couple of them.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    So, if as you concede now that it does not affect the relative ranking to MB and BMW, how does that lead to your previous statement that air is coming out of the Toyota/Lexus bubble? You are just desperately trying to cover up a very badly orchestrated snide attack on Toyota/Lexus.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Eh are you kidding ? I love the snow and ice up here too much.

    First time I've ever seen you using the "eh" word! Amazing that you avoided doing so for so long. ;)
  • jc_volvojc_volvo Member Posts: 3
    I checked the IIHS list on the "large luxury cars" category, it did showed up in that sequence. but there might be some room for intepretaion/imagination...

    For example:

    Cadillac DTS got G/A/P in front/side/rear while Volvo s80 got G/NA(not tested)/G. So you know Volvo's rear got much better score than DTS, and the side score could put it anywhere in the list. Maybe better (as good as Audi A6?), or maybe worse. So everyone "below" volvo , including BMW 5, Accura RL..are "unknown".

    That's just my take on this list..
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    You've made a very good point. I hadn't noticed that some on the list were untested for rear impact. It is probably unfair for cars that are untested on one aspect to even appear on a list with cars that have.

    So a revised listing would be:

    The ratings of OVERALL crash safety in the IIHS "large luxury cars" category:

    1. Audi A6
    2. Lexus GS
    3. Infiniti M35/M45
    4. Mercedes E class
    5. Cadillac DTS

    And for their "midsize luxury/near luxury cars":

    1. Audi A4
    2. Saab 9-3
    3. Lexus IS
    4. BMW 3 series
    5. Lexus ES 350
    6. Acura TL
    7. Volvo S60
    8. Mercedes C class
    9. Saab 9-5
    10. Acura TSX
    11. Lincoln MKZ
    12. Jaguar X-Type
  • clarencehollowclarencehollow Member Posts: 60
    I live in Buffalo, right beside the border and people buy cars and bring them to Canada all the time. As a general rule, used cars that are at least 15 years old can be imported from the U.S.A. and are not subject to safety and emission equipment requirements. Age is not determined by model year; the month of importation must be at least 15 years after the month of manufacture of the vehicle.

    If your vehicle is less than 15 years old and was manufactured for sale in the U.S., you must first determine whether it qualifies for importation. Transport Canada's Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV) program ensures that qualifying vehicles are modified, inspected and certified to meet Canadian safety standards.

    Upon arrival at Customs, a qualifying vehicle will be entered into the RIV program. The registration fee is $197 in Quebec and $182 in other provinces. Within 45 days, the vehicle must be altered at your expense to meet Transport Canada requirements (it may need daytime running lights and metric labels for instruments, for example). You won't be able to register and license the car in Canada until it is modified and inspected. The RIV Web site contains a list of eligible vehicles and detailed information about typical modification and inspection requirements.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    It appears to me from the IIHS data that being "first" with a safety innovation (Volvo, MB) does not necessarily equate to having the safest vehicles in the world, once that innovation has been widely adopted.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    You are just desperately trying to cover up a very badly orchestrated snide attack on Toyota/Lexus.

    Cover-up? Attack?

    Sounds like words from the Pentagon and not from this forum. ;)

    BTW, I always referred to the bottom line as being relative to itself. Someone else, perhaps you, thought about it being relative to other makes. So..the bottom line still can not change, no matter what anyone ever says, including you.

    Just because you now finally understand the true meaning of the bottom line doesn't entitle you to use words like "desperate, snide, cover-up or attack" in reference to me. That is WAY too personal my friend and has no place on this forum.

    You need to let up on the Starbucks or something. Way too serious and insulting I might add... and I suggest that you do not go down that road again, or the HOST won't take too kindly to it either, and you will ruin this forum for all of us. To disagree is OK, but do it without the personal insults! Got it?

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    It appears to me from the IIHS data that being "first" with a safety innovation (Volvo, MB) does not necessarily equate to having the safest vehicles in the world, once that innovation has been widely adopted.

    Absolutely true. Volvo was once almost exclusive in its quest for building the safest vehicles. That is certainly not the case any more. Good point.

    TagMan
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