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Now remember it was dirty and I was driving on a very busy road so this is not a fair review. What is interesting is that when I got out of the tunnel and headed west I saw a black S-class pulling into a parking garage. This car was, somehow, spotless and looked like it had just been detailed. So it looked its best and the Maybach its worst from a cleanliness standpoint. I thought to myself that the S-class (it was a 2003) is a far more beautiful and elegant car than the Maybach. Despite all our differences over the years I'll also tell you that I honestly think the S is the most beautiful large sedan on the road - if not the most beautiful "ordinary" production car out there. But I prefer the Lexus LS for a host of different reasons.
On a personal note - make sure you give career changes a lot of thought and don't hesitate to seek out advice from close friends and family. Stay well.
M
M
Making a claim was not a red-carpet experience, due to the adversarial position between the BMW dealer and WG. I suspect this would be a problem with other warranty companies as well, as they all use their price schedules to authorize the amount that they will cover. As you might suspect, that price was lower than what the BMW dealer wanted. In my case they cut the dealer about $100. The dealer grumbled but reduced the price, but I think I have a good idea what would happen if they tried to cut a $4,000 repair by 33%. One caveat - do not have service work done at the same time as the repair. The dealer may have buried the $100 in the other work. The authorization of the amount for the work may be much less of an issue if you use a shop with lesser repair charges than a BMW dealer, so that's something to weigh.
The reimbursement itself is handled one of two ways. If you sign the repair order the dealer can fax it to WG and get it paid via credit card. But this means you have to sign and fax it AFTER the work is done, and then wait for the dealer to call and get his money. My dealer was already disgruntled about long waits getting through, so I paid him and submitted the claim myself. That method takes about 30 days, though, to get the money.
All in all, none of this is surprising, and I don't really mind the process. As long as the policy covers my expense I'm happy. I would like my BMW dealer to be a little more cooperative, but I didn't bank on that. I WOULD recommend that you discuss the coverage with your repair shop that you use 1st though, just to make sure they'll honor the plan.
DB
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02012541
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Thanks.
M
Now, I don't deny for a minute that Lexus viewed MB as the target, or that when it designed the LS, it used the MB S as its bogey. But do you really think the designs are so close as to justify the label "copy?" I don't, and I don't think a neutral observer (which leaves both of us out) would think so.
M
M
M
Seems to me that if we have faith in our beliefs, we really shouldn't need to use sarcasm to present them.
M
But I think it is significant that merc1 starts this rant about all Lexi being copies and the alleged utter lack or originality of the marque, and when pressed, he cites only the current release of a single model (the current LS) as his proof. The RX is the trendsetter in its niche, not a "copy." The GS doesn't look like anything else, and neither does the IS. The LX? Looks like the TLC, but everything else in the market has followed them.
As for the RR, I did see it on Motorweek, and thought it was just hideous on the outside. Really atrocious. One of the great, elegant traditional styles butchered. Forward of the C pillar, however, the 7 looks better and better to me. I love the looks of the interior. i Drive and poor reliability would keep me from buying one though, as would that unsightly tush.
nealm1,
If you think Lexus is an original brand you're a lot more off base than I thought you ever could be. Everything they've done (except the RX300) is to catch up to or mimic somebody else, and not just Mercedes-Benz.
There is something about the Phantom thats almost spooky, hence the name I guess. It looks like a car that an evil person would drive in a cartoon.
M
On one level, the statement is true, and has to be, because the brand was introduced only in 1990. So when Lexus introduced their first sedan, first coupe, first SUV, naturally they weren't exactly inventing the respective categories.
On another level, the statement is silly and also false. Does the Land Cruiser/LX 'mimic' other SUVs more than the ML does? (And wasn't the LX on the market before the ML anyway?) What did the old or new SC mimic? What did each generation ES mimic?
Oh, and was MB the first to put nav systems in its cars? Was it mimicing or catching up when it did? And if MB ever manages to make its nav more user-friendly, will they then be mimicing Lexus?
Who is going to have the first hybrid-powered luxury suv?
The LX is a overpriced Land Crusiser and the ES300 is a very ugly luxed out Camry, so you're right nothing there dealing with any German cars.
Wow a NAV system has really pushed the envelope of car development. Where would cars be without them.....wow! Lexus is truly an innovator. Pluheease.
M
On one level, the statement is true, and has to be, because the brand was introduced only in 1990. So when Lexus introduced their first sedan, first coupe, first SUV, naturally they weren't exactly inventing the respective categories.
On another level, the statement is silly and also false. Does the Land Cruiser/LX 'mimic' other SUVs more than the ML does? (And wasn't the LX on the market before the ML anyway?) What did the old or new SC mimic? What did each generation ES mimic?
Oh, and was MB the first to put nav systems in its cars? Was it mimicing or catching up when it did? And if MB ever manages to make its nav more user-friendly, will they then be mimicing Lexus?
Who is going to have the first hybrid-powered luxury suv?
M
Again, since it was ignored earlier, I'll ask: What look is the LX copying? The ES? The GS? The SC? The IS?
I have never mistaken any model Lexus for another car. Have you, Merc1?
This part I can't resist:
"I have never mistaken any model Lexus for another car. Have you, Merc1? "
If you can't see where the LS430 is pure 1992-1999 S-Class then there is no use in going any further with this.
M
If the LS is "pure 1992-1999 S-Class", have you ever mistaken one for the other, or do you know anyone who has? Personally, I think there is as much resemblence between the two as there is between a 2000-2003 S and a Ford Taurus. In other words, not much.
devoted Lexus fans and owners see it. (That post was #2227). If you can't see the obvious then we just flat out disagree in every possible way and lets just leave it at that.
M
We all know, outside of the LS, there is not one Lexus car with any hint of Mercedes styling.
"Wow a NAV system has really pushed the envelope of car development. Where would cars be without them.....wow! Lexus is truly an innovator. Pluheease."
Hey Merc1, if the NAV is no big deal, why do you make such a huge deal out of a stupid shift gate pattern? Wow! Please tell me, where the innovation in that is?
"Everything they've done (except the RX300) is to catch up to or mimic somebody else, and not just Mercedes-Benz. "
Again, where is the outright, across the board copying that you speak so highly of? Again,
the ES300 copies what styling inside or out from Mercedes?
The RX330 copies what styling from Mercedes?
The GX470 copies what?
The LX470 copies what?
the IS300 copies what?
the SC430 copies what?
the GS copies what?
the IS300 is a blatant copy of the BMW 3-series in nearly every way
The GS definitely owes a lot to the E-class, and the LS to the S-class.
I love the past generation E-class styling but I don't even see a faint resemblance to it in the GS. I've seen the front headlights given as an example but that is absurd. If one were to buy that than my LX470 must be an E-class copy because it has similar headlights to the GS. Don't see any resemblance in the SC or IS (someone please explain what you see)and the SUV's are pure Lexus/Toyota.
Is the LX470 an overpriced TLC? I certainly don't think so. But merc1 is entitled to his opinion.
Now if you want to see cars that look alike I must say that I can't tell the difference between a Land Rover and the G-500. If there is an overpriced vehicle on the road the latter takes the cake. It looks tinny, small and cheap to my eyes.
As for the Japanese as designers - they will never have the creativity of the Europeans or the Americans. When was the last time anyone saw a great movie from a Japanese director? These people are driven to perfection but not in creative design. But man can they make a car that is flawless and is built as well as any MB ever was.
As for the design issue - it doesn't take much to hire a high quality Italian design team. When they do that all talk of poor styling and copying will end very quickly.
Mine is a 2 Lexus family. I don't care for their design work either, and chose Lexus for other reasons. The only Lexus I have admired (at the time), exterior-design-wise, was the old GS300 (well maybe the new RX330 too, but I haven't seen it in person yet). The old GS was Giugiaro-designed, so I absolutely agree that they should hire Italian designers again!
But to say that every Lexus model is a copy of an MB or other design, as Merc1 does, is just not based in fact. You are right to point out Merc1's flawed reasoning as regards the S vs. LS.
Please substantiate this as I don't see it. Yes, the look and the spirit of the car is patterned after the Bimmer, so is its performance and size. The interior and chronograph dash intstruments of the Lexus, etc. are nothing like the 3-series. Please educate us.
The size and design are identical in terms of the way the car drives. Now it looks like a Celica sedan and has a different (and cheaper) interior, you do have a point.
If Lexus, or anyone else, truly copies a BMW or MB or whomever's styling, it would be another story, and a legal problem as well. I haven't heard of Lexus being sued by anyone for copyright infringement over a car or suv design (as I believe DaimlerChrysler sued GM over the front grille design of the Hummer H2).
maxhonda99,
Why does any bother to respond to my posts? Same reason you are, you're in denial. Let me see if you can get this. There is a difference between copying a styling theme (a shiftgate pattern) and offering the same thing that EVERY luxury car offers (NAV). Do you understand that?
It's amazing how you and syswei keeping asking the same questions like a broken record when YOU and I have discussed this before.
ljflx,
Well...I respect you a great deal but some of things you say are just so.... The G500 and Range Rover look alike but the LS430 doesn't look like a bloated Avalon? The S-Class looks like a Taurus? Come on now. Yes I said the LS430 is a copy of the previous S-Class and yes I think the old S looked better in it's day, but you keep leaving out a key word here, the LS430 is POOR copy of the old S-Class. Thats about the third time I've had to point that out to you. I know you get that. The LS430 has the side proportions, doors and roof of the old S exactly, but the front and rear ends are ugly as all get out. How do you know that the current GS didn't have it's front end patterned after the E-Class? The G500 is tinny and cheap, my you don't know as much as I thought. The G500 is a tank on wheels. It's in the same league as the Hummer H1 as far as it's intened purpose.
Quite seriously. You are the broken record. Not to mention a broken record that contradicts himself at every turn.
Hello. You can't tell you're a broken record.
every 3rd post from you is about "copying".
Not to mention you haven't proven anything except that the LS430 looks like a previous generation S-class. Okay, we've basically all come to that conclusion. Now get over it and move on. Obviously, it seems like you can't do that. What would that be called? Huh. Let's see-a broken record.
If you want to discuss shiftgates(personally I think it's stupid since nobody seems to care except you). Let's talk about shiftgates. The new C-class has a leather shift boot, the German built Catera had it long before Mercedes did. So, since Opel/Vauxhall had it long before and Mercedes now has it, is it copying? Based on your definition, it sure seems like it.
Oh, and let's not forget your other contradiction.
in some posts you say only the LS430 steals styling cues from Mercedes and in some others you say every Lexus does. Which is it? make up your mind.
Move on, please.
As for the GS - I see no resemblance whatsoever to an E-class.
Taurus - Similar rear lights to all MB's now, similar shape (look at the lines and curves on the side) and very similar rear deck lid. Look-a-like - No. The S is far more elegant and expensive looking. I think it's a great looking car. But I would seriously doubt that MB did not take some of those Ford styling cues and perfect them. Just my opinion.
ljflx,
The Range Rover is a Land Rover product. Same difference, the G500 doesn't look like the RR, Disco or Freelander. You couldn't be more incorrect about the Taurus and the S-Class. I find it amazing that you see similarities between a Ford Taurus and a S-Class, but you don't find any between the LS430 and the Avalon.
Something else you said came to mind today, you stated that a "performance SUV" was a "disaster waiting to happen", well guess who has one on the table because of Infiniti's FX45.
M
http://germancarfans.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=3338
M
And the HPX is merely a spin on the segment Toyota created with the crossover RX300, except larger(I believe based on the GS platform).
M
I'm trying to understand your whole issue here anyway. Is it an embarassment if MB follows styling cues of someone else. It's pretty smart business in my view as long as they don't violate any patents.
I hope you don't believe that MB is nothing but original in nature and follows no one else's lead. If that were the case they are indeed in a business class all by themselves and its not something to be proud of.
No Mercedes isn't totally original in every single respect and every now and then over the past 117 years they've had to take a lesson from others, but for the most part Mercedes-Benz has stood alone in it's leadership. You don't agree? Mercedes is clearly more of an innovator than Lexus will ever be. There was a reason why Japan's best didn't even look at Cadillac, Lincoln, Jaguar, Audi or even BMW (until recently) for their inspiration for a luxury car, but jeeweez 13 years later and they're still aping from you know who.
Yes BMW began the whole thing in 1988 with the V12 750iL, and YES Lexus did change the landscape considerably in 1990 with new ways of selling cars and serving the customer. Not disputing that at all, my problem with Lexus is their ridiculous c ______y of that other brand. It's absurd. Nobody except a few Korean brands make their cars such knockoffs (LS430) stylewise. Even Infiniti has seen the light of having their own designs.
And I also disagree with being a class of your own. Nothing wrong with that if everyone else is trying to get into your "class". Just ask BMW.
M