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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Owning: Changing the "oil" every 5000 miles.
    Leasing: Changing the "oil" every 14000-15000 miles.
    As a leasee, I have no vested interest in doing anything beyond the minimum maintenance required.


    Makes good sense to me. It's all about driving the car for the smallest amount of cash flow.

    But, if BMW takes you up on your purchase offer, I expect you might service your 545 every 5,000 miles from then on... that is unless you are being "cunning and deceitful". ;)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    One doesn't have to change synthetic oil every 5000 miles in the latest model BMWs. To do so is unnecessary. It may help the owner feel good, but the vehicles can go 15,000 miles between changes.
    Interesting that my computer has me down for 14,000 miles instead of 15,000 for the oil change. I think my burn the rubber driving may have something to do with that. :blush:
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Unfortunately the Jaguar XF concept wasn't there for public viewing, only the press days. The Ford/Lincoln concepts didn't impress me. Its pretty hard to get worked up over their concepts when they never build them. Ford needs both of those cars, but I'd be shocked if they actually brought them to production.

    Yes I like the new X5. Haven't been to a dealer to check it out though so.....

    Yes the Toyota FT-HS was a shocker, as was the Lexus LF-A. We all know Toyota is capable of building a sports car so they need to quit wasting time with concepts and bring them to a showroom immediately. Both the Lexus and the Yota would do big business IMO.

    I should have have photos up later tonight or tomorrow.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Or it is programmed to give you a little slack by alerting you a little ahead of time.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Its pretty hard to get worked up over their concepts when they never build them.

    Yeah, you'd think they would be smarter than that, but they have proved otherwise for too many years.

    Even if GM or Ford built one, they'd no doubt skimp on the necessary things to make it a true success. Remember the Fiero with it's low strangling budget? They shot themselves in the foot.

    Yes the Toyota FT-HS was a shocker...

    Indeed. I posted earlier on that. It is a car to watch out for, IMO. An instant success, if there ever was one.

    Toyota, apparently went against its own grain with the FJ Cruiser concept and went ahead and built it anyway, only to prove once again that it sometimes does indeed make sense to build a concept vehicle.

    Looking forward to your pics!

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Even if GM or Ford built one, they'd no doubt skimp on the necessary things to make it a true success.

    Let's not forget the Plymouth Prowler, Chevy SSR, and the briefly revived Ford Thunderbird. All duds that could've done very well if properly executed.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    I was always including myself in the old and deceitful category so we both win.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    All duds that could've done very well if properly executed.

    Exactly... "IF".

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    One doesn't have to change synthetic oil every 5000 miles in the latest model BMWs. To do so is unnecessary. It may help the owner feel good, but the vehicles can go 15,000 miles between changes.

    I agree 100 percent with you about leasing and oil changes. If I leased a car I wouldn't waste my time with unschedule oil changes.

    BUT I dont agree with your above statement that unschedules oil changes are unnecessary ? It all depends on how you drive--and we all know about BMW drivers dont we? And even if the oil is fine the filter may not be fine at all. I've been told that the frequency of oil changes will affect the wear on bearings, cams and valve components. The longetivity of any car is dependent on the frequency of oil/filter changes(BMWs or non-BMWs)

    The BMW company line of course is different. Why? Here is an interesting POV:

    Prior to Free Scheduled Maintenance, you couldn’t change engine oil often enough according to most dealerships. And when the car was in the shop it would often be due for this service or that inspection, all at the owner’s expense.

    But once BMW began paying for scheduled maintenance, lo and behold the “schedule” was revised. Now, magically, the cars hardly need any maintenance at all! The 1,200-mile break-in service was done away with except for M cars. Engine oil suddenly lasts 15,000 miles (dealers are supposed to use BMW synthetic oil). Manual gearbox and differential oil? No worries there – now BMW says they NEVER need to be changed, it’s “lifetime fill.” Brake fluid and coolant service intervals were doubled with no change in the original BMW brake fluid and anti-freeze dealers are supposed to use.

    So, is Free Scheduled Maintenance all about marketing and cost reduction – BMW’s costs? Draw your own conclusions. There is no doubt that many buyers incorrectly view BMWs as “high maintenance” cars. Nothing can address that more effectively than Free Scheduled Maintenance. But the operative word in the name is “scheduled.” In my opinion, extended service intervals and “lifetime fill” came very close on the heels of Free Scheduled Maintenance.

    This is an alternative to BMW’s factory-recommended maintenance schedule. It is not, “Mike Miller’s maintenance schedule.” It is actually BMW’s maintenance schedule, more or less, which was used prior to Free Scheduled Maintenance. It also represents my opinion, based upon my experience and that of my readers, tech advisors, and professional BMW technicians both dealer and independent. I have prepared it because of the large number of readers asking for this information. The fact that my opinions may differ from those of others does not mean anyone is necessarily right or wrong. You will get a different answer from every person you ask about routine vehicle maintenance.


    LINK: OIL CHANGES
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah, you'd think they would be smarter than that, but they have proved otherwise for too many years.

    Even if GM or Ford built one, they'd no doubt skimp on the necessary things to make it a true success. Remember the Fiero with it's low strangling budget? They shot themselves in the foot.


    True, but I actually see more hope for GM than Chrysler and more for Chrysler than Ford. The re-beaked 500 is going to be a dismal failure like the current car a blandmobile.

    Toyota, apparently went against its own grain with the FJ Cruiser concept and went ahead and built it anyway, only to prove once again that it sometimes does indeed make sense to build a concept vehicle.

    Yeah I forgot about that one. It came to the showroom very close to concept form. I still think they're going have to tone down both of those sports car concept before production, especially the front end of the FT-HS.

    I really hate that I didn't get to see the Jaguar XF concept in person though.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Under BMW's free maintenance program it seems one can bring the vehicle in for more frequent oil changes. I did it once with one of my 3 Series vehicles and they didn't charge me even though the oil change was "unscheduled."
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Yeah, I figured as much but didn't know exactly how to say it. Good info. Thanks for sharing.

    Is the same schedule used for BMW owners?

    Most mfgs. and dealers are still on the old 3 months or 3,000 miles bandwagon. With free scheduled maintenance I wonder how fast it would take them to change their tune.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    did it once with one of my 3 Series vehicles and they didn't charge me even though the oil change was "unscheduled."

    Your dealership respects their customers. But by the time I do my tenth unscheduled free oil change at my dealership they will start treating me like Rodney Dangerfield.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Based on my understanding most BMW owners and lessees follow the BMW schedule.

    The reason BMW provides one of the best warranty coverages in the industry is by short-changing post-warranty owners. The lack of fluid changes during a BMW warranty is defenitely hazardous for the long-term health of any car.

    Personally I prefer the warranty coverage of other manufacturers since such coverage motivates car owners/lessees to service their cars more.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    the BMW service manager today. Was told that one can bring in the vehicle every 12 months for an oil change if the 15k mileage interval hasn't been achieved. The only problem with that is the next service interval computer data will not be reset under 14k miles. One would have to make a separate trip back to the dealer at 14k-15k miles to have that done.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The lack of fluid changes during a BMW warranty is defenitely hazardous for the long-term health of any car.

    So, which manufacturer will get the more loyal customer that will return for more?

    1). Car #1 with short life span, and a blast to drive.

    2.) Car #2 with a long life span, and boring to drive.

    If they are both going to get return customers, #1 for the fun, and #2 for the long life, then it stands to reason that manufacturer #1 is going to make more money, as cars are exchanged for new ones much sooner.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    one can bring in the vehicle every 12 months for an oil change if the 15k mileage interval hasn't been achieved. The only problem with that is the next service interval computer data will not be reset under 14k miles. One would have to make a separate trip back to the dealer at 15k miles to have that done.

    If one were driving in the range of 7,500 miles a year, then that would be a darned good program, IMO.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Exactly!

    However, one only finds out about this by asking.
    It is not written anywhere.
    I wonder why BMW doesn't want the folks to know about this? ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I wonder why BMW doesn't want the folks to know about this?

    LOL. Yeah I wonder. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    If too many folks actually took advantage of this, I have a feeling the BMW free maintenance program would be modified.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I've forgotten the termination date of your lease. When did you say it ends?

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    True, but I actually see more hope for GM than Chrysler and more for Chrysler than Ford. The re-beaked 500 is going to be a dismal failure like the current car a blandmobile.

    And the "new" Focus? UGH! Its like they took their inspiration from the Toyota Echo. Its absolutely hideous. The Euro Focus looks great, is one of the best handling small cars on the planet, and rides on the new Mazda3\Volvo S40 platform. Ours is an ugly rehash of the tired old focus. Brilliant strategy there Ford.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Lease termination is August 1, 2008. I guess the computer's alarm will ring loudly to alert me at least a week before.

    Sat in the 2007 X5 at the showroom today. Not as much legroom as in the 2005 X5 I drove. Wood doesn't seem as nice either. Huge step up to enter. Can easily twist an ankle stepping down.
    Not a vehicle for the senior set or the orthopedically challenged. Third row "symbolic" at best.

    Disappointing!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Sat in the 2007 X5 at the showroom today...

    Disappointing!


    Well, then, you may have saved me a trip to the BMW dealer. I've been curious about the new X5.

    The new GL diesel sounds nice, and there will possibly be an additional version with a bigger V8 diesel as well. Only thing is, it seems too big. We'll probably just keep the wife's MDX for a while longer. She likes it enough, and it's been flawless so far.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    When the salesman tells you the X5 is a "big step up", he isn't referring to status! ;)

    Man! I thought I was mounting a horse, climbing into that monstrosity!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The new MDX is on my "have to drive" list. I will check out the 2008 model next year. Hope they have parking sensors by then. And perforated cooling seats. And real wood. And a power lift gate available in basic, sport and technology packages. And a different front grille. And desperate dealers who are watching inventory pile up and ready to see things "my way." :blush:

    PS: This of course, if my outrageously low offer for the 545i is rejected. :)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Wife's MDX is an '06, loaded, and yes, it has parking sensors with the camera, nav, satellite, bluetooth, voice command, i-pod link, DVD rear-entertainment, and a long list of options and accessories. No power tailgate, however, and fortunately she's never expressed a need or desire for that.

    As flawless as her '06 has been, I'm guessing the new version starting with '07 is likely even better.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The new X5 disappointing?

    That is exactly why my wife drives a BMW touring wagon. Also my kids are no longer Hobbit-sized so the third row X5 seat will no longer be of any assistance to us.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The new GL diesel sounds nice.

    A V8 diesel with California diesel prices?

    I think I will wait a few more years before seeking an alternative fuel efficient drivetrain. I am looking forward to a lithium ion battery powered hybrid (a Chevy Volt or a Toyota/Lexus hybrid) that wont share the same burning fate as Sony laptops.

    The diesel alternative sounds soooo 19th century. And the other fuel efficient alternatives sounds soooo 20th century---CVT or 8 speed transmissions, low friction engines, accessories decoupled from the engine,, displacement on demand systems, cam phasing and multicam engines. Squeezing out fuel savings from these alternatives is like squeezing a dry lemon.

    For fuel efficiency the 21st century belongs to hybrids and fuel cell autos. IMHO at least.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Was told that one can bring in the vehicle every 12 months for an oil change if the 15k mileage interval hasn't been achieved

    I will have to find out if this covert oil change policy applies to BMW dealerships in Toronto?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    There you go again.

    The new diesels are not only modern, but will be an even better partner to the electric motors than their gas counterparts, as diesel/hybrids start to make themselves a reality... first in Europe and then in the States.

    And... the diesel GL costs at least $1500 to $2500 LESS than its gas counterpart, so the savings begins even at the point of purchase, let alone the continued savings at the pump. (unlike hybrids, whick take forever at the pump to make up the hybrid purchase "premium".)

    Sorry, Dewey, diesels are modern and will be part of diesel/hybrids, and beyond that they will burn alternate fuels as well. All modern thinking, my friend.

    It won't be all that many years after their introduction that modern diesels capture at least 9% of the entire market here, and will ultimately outsell gas/hybrids. Mercedes will sell 15% of their SUV's as modern diesel models.

    Want to place a bet on this?

    Here's some info on diesel hybrids in Europe:

    plugged-in diesels for Europe

    Here's some info from C&D on the Mercedes GL diesel you might find interesting:

    '07 Diesel GL

    BTW, I absolutely do agree with you about fuel cells, however. But that will come later, not sooner.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    It won't be all that many years after their introduction that modern diesels capture at least 9% of the entire market here, and will ultimately outsell gas/hybrids. Mercedes will sell 15% of their SUV's as modern diesel models.

    Want to place a bet on this?

    It's a bet! My prediction is that by 2013 non-hybrid diesels in N. America will become relics of the past as plug in hybrids become more mainstream.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    C&D gave the MDX a nice write-up in their latest issue.
    Most of the reviews have been positive.
    Whether I get one or not, I will drive one next year. I remember enough about the 2005 X5 drive to make a comparison.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Absolutely! Let us know.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I mentioned a few posts ago (#22975), that if one wants the true BMW performance and mpg, stay away from the X5 and get the 530xi wagon. Makes sense to me, if very few others out there.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    C&D gave the MDX a nice write-up in their latest issue.
    Most of the reviews have been positive.


    I know that our family gives our '06 a thumbs up. Personally, I do wish it had a little better styling. Otherwise not much to complain about.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well, let's be clear here. My point is that the diesel engines are indeed "modern". And I'm talking diesels whether they go solo or as a diesel hybrid. It's the "gas" ice that's not modern. It's ancient... goes back to the historical beginning. and that's why your beloved gas hybrid is going to have competition from both diesels and diesel hybrids, just like the ones I linked in my original post about this.

    So, my bet is on the diesels representing 9% of the entire market by 2013, whether or not they are solo or married to an electric motor makes no difference to me.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well the new MDX is a stylistic improvement. How could it not be? But it really doesn't stand out from the crowd.
    One reviewer mentioned that when he drove it (when it first came out), nobody looked.
    No "wow" factor and that front grill really should be modified a bit.

    The MDX looks like a lot of other SUV's, only it performs better. Its 3rd row while still not terrific is not the joke that the X5's is. (I sat in the new MDX at the auto show).

    I'm curious enough to take one for a drive next year. It really has to be pretty special for me to like it since I am not an SUV person and I am looking for only 1 vehicle.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well, we'll have to wait until 2012 to see this, but it seems that after the 2009 or 2010 Panamera 4-door, Porsche will release it in a coupe form, possibly calling it the 928 again.

    image

    Gosh, has the Audi R8 really stirred things up or what? ;)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Wow... one vehicle to do it all? I'd go crazy!

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, I am the only driver and my garage has 2 golf carts and room for only one vehicle. I bet that 928 coupe would fill the bill just fine! That's what I would call the perfect antidote to the X5.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    2 golf carts, eh? You and the wife both golf your seperate ways, or are we talking golf party?

    Anyway, yeah, that 2012 928 looks sweet to me. Others may not like it, but I'll say if I can hold on to this 911 for 5 years, I'd be a player for it as a possible replacement. Of course, who knows what might be on the market by then.

    Maybe I should have known this, but I guess you are retired down there in Florida?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. I retired at 51 and live in Florida. My wife uses the golf cart for traveling around the community. I am the only golfer. The quick off the line acceleration of the battery-powered golf cart is as close as I will ever get to experiencing a hybrid-powered vehicle.

    I'm with you. I believe ultra low-sulfur diesel will make it big over here soon.

    Jay Leno had a cute spoof of that self-parking vehicle last night. If you missed it, it's probably on You Tube. Hilarious!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    So, my bet is on the diesels representing 9% of the entire market by 2013

    OK the clock is ticking real fast now and we have only 2,170 days to go to find out who wins this bet. By then both of us will be driving hydrogen BMWs and talking nostalgically about the good ole days of disputing hybrids vs. diesels . ;)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    No free annual oil changes at my BMW dealership. :lemon:

    Since it's important that the first oil change is done at a low mileage point I have already made an appointment with my independent mechanic. Since April my wife already had two oil changes done on her her 530xi touring.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Sorry to hear that.

    Well, the synthetic oil is designed for higher mileage intervals between changes, so that helps.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    OK. So, I'm looking for diesels (either solo or diesel hybrid, so long as they are DIESEL) representing 9% of the market by 2013. Your position is that it won't happen. If this is our bet, then you're on, and you'd better print this out and save it in a safe place.

    As you said, by then, the hydrogen will be in use, and I'll add that global warming will have made Canada a vacation paradise. :P

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    51?!! Lucky guy. From NY or North originally and came down to Florida, or native Floridian?

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I'll add that global warming will have made Canada a vacation paradise.

    That is exactly why we still own our old emission spewing diesel MB300. I'll do anything to make our habitat a bit more warmer and sunnier. :shades:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The VP of Toyota Motors predicts a cheaper Lexus will be available soon. Imagine a tiny Lexus hatchback competing with a MINI Cooper?

    According to this theory, someone in her 20’s might buy a Scion, trade up to a Toyota sedan in her 30’s, and then, when she is older and perhaps has more money, might move up to a Lexus. The goal is to keep a buyer moving through the three divisions, all owned by Toyota.

    But now, some Scion buyers are trading up directly to sporty Lexus models, like the IS sedan, despite an effort to make Toyotas look more stylish.

    In the 1990s, consumers “for the most part bought cars by the pound," meaning the big S.U.V.’s and pickups then in vogue, said James Lentz, executive vice president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A.

    Now, he said, "kids want smaller, but not cheaper." Mr. Lentz said the average buyer, who is 25 years old, pays $18,000 to $19,000 for a car, including accessories like wheel covers and interior features.

    While it is a big leap from there to the Lexus price range, Mr. Lentz said it might be time for Lexus to consider selling something cheaper. "The luxury market over time has really evolved," he said, and Lexus is considering "the fringe of each end" meaning smaller cars and those priced above $100,000.


    SOURCE: NY Times
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