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High End Luxury Cars

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  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Bored and S600 can never be said in the same sentence from a Euro car fan, such as yourself.

    Needless to say, if the buyer wasn't so insisting on buying our S600, we'd still have it. I still have the S8 though, which suits my needs a bit better, although the S600 is only stopped by it's sprinting big brother, the S65 in this class. The S600 is sitll the most comfortable car in this class, including the Flying Brick, behind the Audi W12, of course/

    Also, although we have some of the best roadsters made, my wife wouldn't dare be caught on 5th Ave in our Z06. And she has been wanting a convertible for quite some time.

    BTW, we kept the car 2 months and was only out of about 8 grand. I think that is great considering that there is a $100k ceiling for the convertible we're likely to purchase.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    You have to remember that the Lambda platform is just as big as the GMT900 just not as tall, and with GM putting V8's in them, it will deem the Escalade pointless.

    Not necessarily. Nissan has the Murano and Pathfinder, which both cost about the same, and the overall length is identical. They appeal to different customers. The Pathfinder has double the towing capacity, while the Murano is more civilized and car-like.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    True, but the Murano is physically smaller than the Pathfinder and lacks that fundamental 3rd-row seat, whereas the GM Lambda cross-overs offers better packaging than the hulking GMT900's and are similar in size, despite exterior dimensions.

    But I do agree with you in that these different vehicles appeal to different customers. More people are out to get crossovers now, but if the Lambda is a go for Cadillac, it may be a Baby Bling Escalade, altho the Buick Enclave has just as much bling as the Cadillac.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,705
    The Chevy Cavalier is sold now.

    The Chevy dealer that I deal with is given me 1500 over invoice for a '07 Aveo. A great deal let me tell ya.

    But the Kia dealer is willing to do 2k over invoice and through in all of the necessary accessories in the process.

    So to say the least, I'm still in a pickle-dickle.

    The life of middle class poverty that has chosen me is really beginning to lose its luster as I read these posts...

    Y'all are killing me, but I do so enjoy reading these posts from the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous! :D :cry:

    Apropos of nothing: HPowders, my aunt/uncle/cousins lived/grew up in Long Beach. Now in Boca Raton and Bedford, NY. I grew up across the Sound...

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Is that Long Beach, as in Long Beach California? Or is there another Long Beach?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,705
    Long Beach on Long Island, NY.

    Wow, there's a Long Beach in California, too? Any interesting ships anchored there? ;)

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The 2 Long Beaches have nothing in common except the name.

    I hope to see you on the boardwalk sometime where we'll shoot some skeeball. :)

    "I do so enjoy reading these posts from the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous!"

    Oh. Come on! Speaking for myself, I am really not famous at all! ;)
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    "Reuters reports that DaimlerChrysler has been forced by a court to reveal the mileage of its high-performance cars in its advertising. A court spokesman in Stuttgart, the home city for Mercedes-Benz, confirmed the ruling today. The whole thing started with a lawsuit filed by the environmental group Deutsche Umwelthilfe (DUH). Typical blah-blah-blah from the group: "DaimlerChrysler's transparent attempt to hush up the carbon dioxide emissions from models that are especially harmful to the climate has failed," DUH attorney Remo Klinger said in a statement."
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Wow, there's a Long Beach in California, too? Any interesting ships anchored there?

    Well, I really did not know there was a Long Beach on Long island. And, yes, you are referring to the anchored QM.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    For Bentley, an astonishing 9,200 sales record and over 10,000 units were produced in 2006.

    image

    The Continental series is the reason.

    Bentley's CEO doesn't expect a repeat performance. Here's the blurb:

    link title

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Reuters reports that DaimlerChrysler has been forced by a court to reveal the mileage of its high-performance cars in its advertising.

    Oh darned, does this mean the advertized mileage of those 400hp-500hp-600hp MB AMG models are overstated? Does this mean car shoppers will no longer compare AMG mileage/emissions figures with Toyota Prius figures?

    Now when is Toyota not going to be so hush-hush about those real world low Prius mileage figures ?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    My gosh, this article is as boring as can be. Especially when one considers that it's about the R8. Maybe it's me, but JUERGEN ZOELLTER, who apparently drove the car, wouldn't get excited if someone shoved a grenade up his a--!

    I would have expected more enthusiasm after getting a drive in the R8, that is, unless the R8 is truly a boring car to drive, and I highly doubt that.

    Read for yourselves:

    First Drive 2008 R8

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Now if only Toyota would not be so hush-hush about those real world low Prius mileage figures then we would have a level playing field between DC and Toyota.

    I believe it is next year when the EPA's new (more realistic) fuel economy ratings go into effect, and the hybrids are expected to take a MASSIVE hit... unlike diesels, of course!

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I can see the reasons for his lack of enthusiasm:

    Audi claims a top speed of 185 mph, which means the R8 is faster in a straight line than a 911 Carrera S. Yet it’s not as sporty as the Porsche and is likely to cost a lot more money in the U.S.—we estimate about $110,000.

    R8’s character changes at higher speeds on open roads, but it’s never raw, like a Porsche 911 GT3’s. Thanks to the modified air intake and exhaust system, the R8 engine delivers its maximum torque between 3500 and 7600 rpm, a higher figure than in the RS 4, which shares the same powerplant. At 5000 rpm, two valves in the intake manifold open and the engine note becomes more aggressive while the car surges forward impressively, despite a claimed curb weight of 3450 pounds.

    Based on the description above and if it was my money I would pick an RS4(with the very same engine as an R8 and $40K cheaper) or a Porsche Carrear S over an outrageously priced Audi R8 anyday!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    believe it is next year when the EPA's new (more realistic) fuel economy ratings go into effect, and the hybrids are expected to take a MASSIVE hit... unlike diesels, of course!

    Ofcourse!

    And ofcourse that will change when plug in lithium ion battery powered hybrids hits the market. ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    And ofcourse that will change when plug in lithium ion battery powered hybrids hits the market.

    How the heck can the EPA give any kind of accurate rating to a plug-in?

    BTW, regarding the R8, sure your points are well taken, but don't you think there would have been more enthusiasm than THAT?

    And yes, I'll also take the Porsche anyday. ;)

    Hey, I just realized, isn't it past your bedtime? :P

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    How the heck can the EPA give any kind of accurate rating to a plug-in?

    I dont know? But I will let those geniuses at EPA figure it out themselves.

    BTW, regarding the R8, sure your points are well taken, but don't you think there would have been more enthusiasm than THAT?

    Maybe you are right and he should have shown far more enthusiasm. But I myself am guilty of getting turned off by some very exciting cars with inflated price tags (relative to the competition).

    Hey, I just realized, isn't it past your bedtime?

    Nope I still have a video to watch.(fortunately it is only 80 minutes long--James Cagney, Scarface)
  • Tilt. When a CEO says that he doesn't "expect a repeat (sales) performance" I tend to sit up. Is he sandbagging or are there structural reasons? When you read the link that Tagman supplied, a couple of pieces of data jump out. One, while Bentley produced 10,082 cars, they sold only 9200, yet they claim an 18 month order backlog. Huh? I would love to know how this happened. Did they build a lot of cars on spec with the wrong options that they can't sell? This reminds me of Chrysler's sales "bank" of the '70s. When is the sale booked, when it is delivered to a dealer or to the consumer? If not booked until delivered to the retail customer, who owns the 900 (10% of the year's production!) cars? Bentley?

    Secondly, more than a third of these sales were to the US. Probably, 75% of them I would guess were to FL, CA and NY (and probably within those states all the sales were in maybe a total of 6 counties). Those markets consist of people who want the latest hot thing. Bentley had better plan on rolling out a string of new, innovative products if it even plans on keeping up, let alone expanding sales.

    There is an interesting interview with GM's Bob Lutz in the current issue of a US watch magazine. In the article he says that Detroit execs should think like Hollywood producers and plan on rolling out a successive string of hits if they are to stay on top and not think like traditional manufacturers.

    Now about those unsold 900 Bentleys....
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Now about those unsold 900 Bentleys....

    In the dealer's inventories? Imagine the flooring charges, unless they are paid for outright.

    IMO, a successive string of hits is a good strategy.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Based on the description above and if it was my money I would pick an RS4(with the very same engine as an R8 and $40K cheaper) or a Porsche Carrear S over an outrageously priced Audi R8 anyday!

    The R8 is the "Audi of exotics", it's just too sensible. There's space for golf bags! So what? Nobody buys an F430 because they want to be able to fit a pair of golf bags in it.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    High end seems to mean different thing to different folks (and is obviously ignored too frequently), but let me refer everyone to the excellent description of criteria syswei provided us in a recent, um, debacle ;), but the good thing that came out of it was a clear definition of our topic.

    Please review the header here. Let's keep those criteria in mind going forward, please.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The R8 is the "Audi of exotics", it's just too sensible

    What is missing today is an insensible car that can compete with the exotics at a very sensible price. The late 1980s Acura NSX was a highly exotic car selling at a very compelling price. It will be interesting to see how the new upcoming Acura NSX and Lexus LF-A will be priced?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Currently eighty percent of MB S Classes sold in Canada are AWD. My personal preference is RWD and I hope in the future MB will not discontinue selling RWD Benzes in Canada. If AWD hits 90 or 95 percent of sales here that may very well be the case.

    I dont know the stats for BMW but almost every single new BMW I see that is available with AWD is a x-drive BMW. Interestingly that is the same case with Lexus and Infiniti. I hardly ever see new RWD Lexus IS or GS models and Infiniti RWD G and M models.

    Maybe RWD will become as rare as manual trannies, well at least here in Canada. That would be tragic. At least IMHO. :cry:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I never really understood why it was changed in the first place. It should have just stayed high-end luxury marques which includes Porsche and 911s and MB SLs and Jaguar XKs.

    What we've always talked about here is the high-end marques news, happenings and other models sold by them that weren't "sedans". The Ultra Luxury Thread has no traffic so not just discuss Bentley, Rolls, Maybach etc here from time to time. It isn't like those buyers come here or that we'll even talk about those brands that much. Are there any owners of those here?

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I don't know what dewey posted and then deleted, but the reason things were changed is because a lot of things needed to be changed throughout the Forums to be more search-engine friendly, and it is just not worth fighting about anymore. We can certainly include the vehicles you mention. I said nothing about restricting the conversation to sedans, so I assume you must be responding to whatever dewey said.

    To all: The reason I made my post is because again we are reverting to more and more posts about cars that are nowhere near high end anything and that is not why we are here. Debates about manufacturers in general belong in the appropriate discussions in Automotive News, not here. Discussions about the non high end vehicles produced by our favorite-topic manufacturers exist for your conversation pleasure as well. If anyone needs any help finding an appropriate discussion, just give me a holler.

    Further comments/arguments about the topic may be addressed to me via email as always, but they will be removed here, as will other off-topic posts. I told you when we reopened this discussion and closed the ill-fated new one that management's condition was that we stay on topic.

    Thanks to everyone for your help with this.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Merc1 and Pat,

    sorry I didn't realize anyone noticed my deleted message.Pat thanks for clarifying that we can discuss cars like the MB SL , Porsche or even a Maybach. But my confusion and maybe Merc1's confusion is based on the defintion above which does not include such vehicles.

    1) Let's try to define this forum as being limited to vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k but less than $150k,

    The above definition excludes a Rolls, Maybach or a Ferarri

    2) and where the vehicle is the largest sedan within a given company's sedan lineup (or largest SUV within a given company's SUV lineup, or largest coupe within a company's coupe lineup, etc).

    The above definition excludes most Porsches and all roadsters.
    Also luxury cannot be weighed by its tonnage and I find the word "largest" somewhat inapporopriate.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It will be interesting to see how the new upcoming Acura NSX and Lexus LF-A will be priced?

    I'm going to guess at least $110K, right in R8 territory. As for bargain exotic killers, there's the Z06, and the EVO. Unfortunately both (especially the EVO) are fairly sensible.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    If it's high end, it belongs. If it isn't, it doesn't. Maybe that's what the header needs to say. :P
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Thanks,

    that would make a great footnote below the header with a lot of asterisks, daggers with bolded oversized text ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The above definition excludes a Rolls, Maybach or a Ferarri

    I've never seen Pat intervene when a VERY high-end vehicle was discussed. I'm sure the issue is more like when someone posts about a Prius or Camry or something like that.

    TagMan
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