Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

High End Luxury Cars

1…433434436438439…463

Comments

  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    "Roughly $50k US, after exchange rate".????????????

    Try $64 US with no options. May want to find another calculator
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    are being posted in invisible ink.

    Again - high end cars and high end car subjects are the topic. The personally directed posts have no place here.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    1) A8 can indeed garner high double digit growth for a few years; many other models from other manufacturers did the same thing. High per centage growth is easy when the base is small.

    Is that so? Show me a HELC in Mainland China with the phenemonal volume and sales growth of the Audi A8? 75 percent growth for the A8 is amazing for this emerging market and there are no ifs and buts about it!

    Audi is the market leader by some distance in the Chinese premium segment, and it is the fastest-growing premium brand,” states Ralph Weyler, Board Member for Marketing and Sales at Audi.

    link title

    2) These cars are not usually bought by "hard working affluent individuals."

    BUNK! My wife's brothers are all business owners in China and are making a fist load of money. They dont have to rely on bribes for a livelihood. Your bureaucratic Maoist conception of China is dated by a few decades.

    You want proof. Please note the following paragraph from Businessweek. Businessmen not Bureaucrats are mentioned as Rolls Royce owners.

    , guess what? Rolls-Royce's sales are up 50% this year, about double the pace of China's overall luxury segment. China is now Roll-Royce's third biggest market after the U.S. and Britain, and the company's fastest growing one. A big reason is the rapid wealth accumulation in rich coastal markets such as Beijing, Shanghai, and Shenzhen, where newly rich businessmen are buying Phantoms loaded with expensive extras to get around town in style.

    And I repeat most HELCs especially A8s in Mainland China are driven mainly by successful businessmen not bureaucrats. As in the case with Rolls Royces.

    Also there is nothing wrong with being a high paid bureaucrat with a nice car as there is nothing wrong with a US executive with company cars. You make all government employed people sound like riff raff and rabble. In fact there are quite a few self indulgent corrupt types in the corporate world too. ( In USA and China)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Why would anyone build a great car like this and then put in "overboosted power steering with no feel and no feedback"?

    As time goes, there will be many reviews of this great car, the Audi R8. Initially, most all reviews are almost stellar. This must be one incredible car. However, it will never be perfect, as no car can be... and there will always be those that find different things to nit-pick about.

    The general consensus is what I like to go by. The vast majority, in other words. So, after many more reviews are done, we'll have a darned clear picture of what the Audi R8 is really about. So far, it's a phenomenal car.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Thank you, Porsche!!!... I'm having a blast!

    There are hopeful signs of a future Porsche in my case. Porsche Canada will reduce prices of various models by 3 percent to reflect the strengths of the Canadian dollars.

    That is music to my ears.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Where oh where are the reviews that claim that a LS is a driver's delight?

    The fact that there are almost as many gadgets in the back seat as the front tells you the Lexus LS460 was made for the chauffeur-driven segment of our society.

    link title
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Well I see you have managed to trot out another European review of the LS. Keep looking and just maybe you can find one from...China...Land of the Audi. China can have em. They are obviously not wanted in the good ol' U.S.A.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    China can have em. They are obviously not wanted in the good ol' U.S.A.

    You do realize that this is a country where the #1 and #2 sellers are pick-up trucks, and #3 is the Toyota Camry. The average American could really care less about accelerating, or braking, or cornering, or styling. We're not the land of great taste in automobiles.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    We have come to the conclusion that Dr.Fill can still cause such a rift among the peaceful and usually cordial posters on this thread.

    So let's try as we might and put this Audi V. The World thing to rest.

    VW/Audi and GM owns the Chinese market, and are ever so prevelant in the next door neighbors streets, Japan. With that said, and with the Chinese market on the move to become #1 by decade's end/'11, they really do matter.

    The A8 is one of the nicest vehicle that are on the marketplace as of now. It's not the best in class(the new S-Class owns that title), but judging from it's new Pacific-esque competitor, it's still got it.

    Some claim to be a "numbers guru", claiming that "I have all of the numbers of China", WHATEVER. The fact of the matter is there is one HELC that is indigenous to that area of the world that is mysteriously absent, wonder what it could that be? At least the Audi does very well in it's homeland.

    Out of the repect for our wonderful HOST, and for the respect of everyday posters and potential ones, can we please end this "I hate Audi" debate once and for all.

    BTW: I will be receiving a fully opted XJR by March 30th. That's right, I finally did it. Many restless nights fighting over the MB and Jag. But the deal was much sweeter with the XJR.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    was the winding road piece of interest to you, or anybody else for that matter?

    Sorry to beat a dead horse, but man that engine sounds unbelievable. I know, I know, as do most exotics.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    Sorry Blkhemi, congrats on your new ride. The new Jag is certainly beautiful, just like those Aston's :P

    Sorry I get so distasteful everyone, but I've never been one to run from a fight. I rather enjoy it you might say.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    There are hopeful signs of a future Porsche in my case.

    I certainly hope so... but just imagine that difficult choice between the 335i and the Porsche. Heck that's a lot of fun for one person to handle!

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    blkhemi,
    My friend, you posted XJR twice! Surely you meant to say X K R ?!?!?!?

    Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In this case, the key word is "gorgeous". :)

    BTW, if you check every one of my posts regarding Audi, you should find yourself very pleased indeed. I could not have been more supportive.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    was the winding road piece of interest to you, or anybody else for that matter?

    Absolutely. Sorry I didn't thank you for the post. I'm not sure if your link works or not, since I already get the on-line magazine.

    I definately got an adrenaline rush watching that video. The article mentions that this will be one of the first cars to get absolutely no speed limiter at all, estimating the top speed at I believe 187 mph.

    With the initial engine, the 0-60 time is estimated at 4.5 if I remember correctly. Some of the the photos are very nice, and the night shots are particularly flattering.

    The cockpit at night is terrific. It happens to be one of the things that I always love in a car... a good-looking night display... and the R8 has a good one, if that photo is any indication.

    Anyway, thanks again.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    The top sellers here being pick-ups is easy to understand. Work trucks, farm trucks, etc. People have to make a living first and foremost. Nothing wrong with that.

    When it comes to HELCs though, Audi will not only have to shake its image as being unreliable, but will have to become almost bullet proof, like Lexus, before gaining wide acceptance here. That is a very tall order.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Audi will not only have to shake its image as being unreliable, but will have to become almost bullet proof, like Lexus, before gaining wide acceptance here.

    There is momentum here in Audi's favor. Styling and image are also HUGE factors in the HELC segment. Reliability is important, but not supreme.

    The Audi styling is becoming more and more accepted in the HELC segment and other segments as well. The adoption of the similar look by VW is helpful, not hurtful, as it makes the look more mainstream and acceptable.

    The upcoming R8 will practically be a halo supercar with a giveaway price tag. It will receive astonishing reviews that will further bolster Audi's image. The S8 will also help. A new A8 will be out in 2008. I was surprised at the robust activity surrounding the Audi cars at the International Auto show on the west coast during Thanksgiving.

    There are quite a few Audi vehicles being driven out here in my neck of the woods... and I'm seeing more and more as time goes by.

    They are definately on a roll. I don't see the tall order that you do. I think they are absolutley going to pull it off, and are already in the process of doing so.

    As I told the Doc, just keep watching the sales data... this is just the beginning. It's going to keep getting better and better for many years to come.

    TagMan
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Although I enjoy Drfill`s opinions and writing skills, sometimes I just read them and move on...Of all the Lexus cars I have owned, they were (and I stress the word `were`) value. I never had any passion about them or pride of ownership...Just reliable transportation....Now the Audi is the value, and I have, even after a year, pride of ownership....When I am down here in s.Florida, just on the floor I park, there are three Bentleys, two RR two new S Mercedes, three Bentley Continentals (one new convertable), , three Porsche- and a variety of bmw s..Of course there is my Audi and two other smaller Audis....My parking place is the best one though :)...For some reason ther isn`t one Lexus -new or old--which I find sort of strange.I know Lexus is strong in most other areas, but not down here....I do agree with the good Dr. on Audi marketing...It is poor, but the car I own is a wonderful car...I think Audi is trying to get their act together, but they have a ways to go...Blk has certainly enjoyed his Audis, as you have enjoyed your bmw.....I sort of feel you enjoy your car more than any of us except maybe Tag and his new Porsche....I personally am sorry the USA manufacturers abandoned the high end, and hope they make another stab at it when they are finacially able to...There would be no worse financial situation than to own a high end car and the manufacturer go broke..I think Tag is right about the Lexus 600 and the risk...I also think just on a finacial side that Toyota would be a good investment, particularly thirty points ago....I also just can`t imagine you happy in a different brand of car...BMW all the way... Tony
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I stand corrected, the XKR will be in my driveway sometime this spring.

    Very appreciative of you, LG, HP, Dewey, DH and others that backed me up on the Audi conundrum.

    We do really know what's going on.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    VW/Audi and GM owns the Chinese market, and are ever so prevelant in the next door neighbors streets, Japan. With that said, and with the Chinese market on the move to become #1 by decade's end/'11, they really do matter.

    Well but you fail to mention that VW entered the Chinese market 10 year before anyone else. Their market share now is less than half of that in 10 years ago.

    Not unlike of what happen in the United States. 30~40 years ago, VW was more than 50% in the import market share. And they now sell as much as Subaru.

    Toyota is just being conservative. They officially entered China in 2005 (about 20 years later than VW) and will slowly, but steadily, kick VW's @ss.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "My parking place is the best one."

    Sounds like you are doing the condo life in Florida, Tony. And a quite nice neighborhood at that! :)

    I agree about the poor marketing job Audi has done in the USA. One can argue that folks here don't buy Audis because of the scarcity of Audi dealerships where one sees BMW, Mercedes Benz, BMW and Porsche showrooms, but I see that as a reflection that the demand isn't there yet.

    Now is the time for Audi to make an all-out aggressive push in USA media advertising so folks here can learn what the rest of the world already knows-that Audi vehicles are on a par with those from Mercedes Benz and BMW. The time for Audi is now!

    Yes. I do get a thrill out of the 545. However, it is not a good local street driver. Its powerful engine occasionally wants to spurt the car forward in local driving which I find annoying and the brakes while excellent in stopping power cannot be modulated to a nice smooth stop.

    Your A8 is at least the equal of the S-Class, IMO and when I sat in both, I was more impressed with the A8's interior and seats.

    My short sale of Toyota is working out nicely Tony, as the stock price was down almost 3% today. :blush:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I stand corrected, the XKR will be in my driveway sometime this spring.

    Well done my friend! You made the right choice :) Considering FoMoCo's horrible losses in '06, its hard to say where Jag will be 7 years from now when its time for the next XK, but this one is the best two-door Jag since the XKE. You won't regret it.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Hmm, because the only comparison I can remember of the four, the GS was last. I don't remember if it was MT or C&D, but they didn't like it.

    There was a C&D comparo in which it came in second to the 540i and they said that it was basically a coin toss. I'm sure DrFill will point this out.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The Audi styling is becoming more and more accepted in the HELC segment and other segments as well. The adoption of the similar look by VW is helpful, not hurtful, as it makes the look more mainstream and acceptable.

    Generally I agree with what you post, but I disagree here. Part of Audi's problem in the U.S. is this image of being an "expensive" or "tarted-up" VW so VW adopting a similar look is very hurtful IMO. VW trying to sell luxury cars and suvs while adopting a similar look on cars like the Jetta and Passat did Audi no favors. An Audi and a VW shouldn't look anything alike. Audi had it right, but VW followed and kinda mucked it up with their Audish grilles on the Jetta, Passat, Rabbit and the facelifted Touareg.

    M
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    An XKR!

    Congratulations you made a great choice!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I agree with what you are saying.

    But unfortunately what you are saying about VW/Audi is an industry trend . We already do know the similarity in looks between a Toyota Camry and a Lexus LS. But did you notice the similarity in looks between the upcoming Altima Coupe and the Infinti GS Coupe?

    This issue is a non-issue at BMW. That is why I like BMWs.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    As both C&D and MT were enamored with the first generation.

    MT said it was the best in 1998, C&D gave it the Roy Jones Jr in Seoul treatment, and allowed the 540 to slither away, bloody and battered, with a close victory.

    I personally don't believe VW is necessarily Audi's problem. Most buyers don't see the VW/Audi connection, except for us "enthusiasts".

    Audi's problem is cultivation, resale, quality, and the unintended acceleration thing.

    It's always been just here, no real growth, weak advertising, no identity (Quattro is a feature, not an identity), and nothing has happened to make the US forget about 1985. It's quality has been nothing to write home about, and it's resale reflects it's lack of market penetration.

    The halo cars, if you will, Audi TT, R8, are an acquired taste. And the Q7 is too little,too late to make the SUV party.

    Audi is not a well-thought out concept. It's the eccentric artist of the luxury class. An acquired taste. And marketing is pretty important. Audi doesn't really have great word of mouth, so they have to sell the idea, and apparently they can't do that.

    And I'm far too busy to help them, so..... :cry:

    DrFill
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    DrFill,

    your liveliness does perk up the atmosphere here in the very same way that 60 Minutes improved the liveliness of creative news reporting with that "Audi Unintended Acceleration Story" during the 1980s.

    The fact that you would even bring up this two decades old BOGUS REPORT from 60 Minutes shows just how distorted an image you have of Audi. This report was unsubstantiated back when Roger Moore played James Bond and Ronald Reagan resided in the White House. I guess it must be very hard to find dirt about Audi when you have to look at such old archived new stories to prove your point.

    The reality is that in our globalized world today Audi is superior to Lexus not only in terms of their products but also in terms of their sales. With or without dated bogus unintended acceleration reports :P

    When the new A8 arrives expect many raised eyebrows and long waiting lists at Audi dealerships.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    We have come to the conclusion that Dr.Fill can still cause such a rift among the peaceful and usually cordial posters on this thread.

    So let's try as we might and put this Audi V. The World thing to rest.

    To err is human.....

    That bonehead Audi exec started this. I just pointed out how particularly wrong he was, so shooting the messenger does you no good.

    As far as this Audi thing goes, I don't see it happening. The A3 is no big deal (rather get a MazdaSpeed3). The Q7 has fallen on it's face. And the R8 looks like roadkill.

    But the A5 at least will have a stick. So, Audi keeps fighting.

    Reminds me of a famous quote from my youth: "A Bundy never wins, but a Bundy never quits. No....isn't it a Bundy never learns? No, it's a Bundy never cares. No! It's a Bundy never dies....."

    When it comes to Lexus, Audi should remain silent. I only stopped by to set it straight. Those who live in glass houses......

    I forgive you. :)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Missed the point again, eh?

    The point is, that "image" is not "mine". It is Audi's. If I remember it, and I didn't know what an Audi was before that happened, many others remember it as well.

    For many in this country, that was our introduction to Audi. Hell of a first impression! :sick:

    And while Lexus was reinventing the luxury car, building itself a wing at the Player's Mansion, Audi was toiling in self-pity, building utterly forgettable vehicles, locking down 2nd-tier status in this country for all eternity.

    That's all I'm sayin'. No need to get snooty about it. :confuse:

    DrFill
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The Audi R8 strengths are going to trickle upwards to the Lambo Gallardo. Second rate Audi self pity you say, HUHHH!!!

    Take off those rose-tinted Lexus glasses of yours and read the following (the truth may hurt but read it anyways):

    Audi R8 "advanced mechanicals" to be implemented in Lamborghini Gallardo

    Usually when you talk about new technology and novel innovations in the automotive industry, it is the higher-end model from the higher-end brand name that gets the new stuff first, and then it eventually finds its way among the more common stock. This was true of ABS, airbags, variable valve timing, and so many other goodies that we take for granted nowadays. It seems that things are heading in the reverse direction with the Audi R8 supercar, and the Lamborghini Gallardo. A "trickle-up" effect is set to take place wherein the "advanced mechanicals" from the former may soon find their way into the Italian arms of the latter. I'm not saying that Audi is low end, but you have to admit that Lamborghini is decidedly high end.

    Some people were concerned that the Audi R8 may cannibalize the sales of the Gallardo. After all, they have the same underpinnings and the same target demographic. The R8 comes with some refreshed suspension components, however, as well as a slightly tweaked engine. With the "sharing" of these new elements, the sisters cars are going to look more and more like twins. That said, the next Gallardo -- set to be reworked next year -- should be in the 550 horsepower range. I'd be happy with either. Audi? Lamborghini? Want to send me one as a "press bonus"?

    link title
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    An Audi and a VW shouldn't look anything alike.

    I understand your point, and you already know I dislike cross-brand sharing. But, that said, the relationship between Audi and VW is already a given. The styling themes between all Audi tiers are quite similar, as are the different "class" cars of Mercedes Benz. Lexus cars are very similar and styling even crosses over into Toyota territory.

    While I am on record of not liking the styling themes to cross over brand lines, I do believe that the grill similarities between VW and Audi lend a familiarity to the look itself. It simply puts more of it out on the roads and highways. When it first was introduced by Audi, it wasn't all that well received. Now it's grown on folks as it is more familiar. In addition, the rest of the car's styling is different enough between VW and Audi... unlike Toyota and Lexus, for example, which can be very similar in overall execution.

    So... while cross-brand sharing is not one of my favorite manufacturing procedures, I can see the positive influence here in Audi's favor. Ultimately, of course, sales data will tell us.

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    This has always been rather common knowledge among people who really know cars.

    What is “common knowledge” is that Porsche is the most profitable car manufacturer of late. It’s cliché at this point. It wasn’t this way in the early 90s when they were in trouble and it didn’t start to get better until 97 with the launch of the Boxster then spiked with Cayenne. The actual disparity between their actual profitability and that of others is not common knowledge, and the financials have nothing to do with knowledge of cars. I wonder how many people with this common knowledge had the wherewithal to invest in Porsche in 97. As of last year their investment returned some 1700%.

    You have to be an even bigger "sucker" to buy a Porsche than an Audi!!

    It is common knowledge that buying a 4-year old low-mileage Civic or Camry is the best way to cut one’s expenses on cars. So by your philosophy, spending $65K on an LS is also a sucker’s move, to the tune of at least $50K down the drain which could otherwise be invested “wisely.” With this financial perspective, distinguishing between the vehicles in this thread is splitting hairs. People are willing and able to buy these cars, and some neither care to or need to pinch pennies. This hardly qualifies them as suckers.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The local Porsche dealer offered to sell me a Carrera GT for $125,000 OFF MSRP!! That was a few months before production ended.

    It seems they miscalculated a little. I say “a little” because it is still deemed a financial success even thought the production run fell a little short of their planned 1500 worldwide but more than the 1000 originally planned. I wonder how the owners feel who paid MSRP. I think the CGT will do OK as a collectible though. The one I’m curious about as a collectible is Veyron.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    I wonder how many people with this common knowledge had the wherewithal to invest in Porsche in 97. As of last year their investment returned some 1700%.

    Yes, and I wonder how many people know that when the stock first went public in the early/mid 80's it was priced at around $400. a share. A four fold increase in 20+ years. Nothing spectacular.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Houdini,

    a four fold increase in 20 years is impressive indeed for an automotive company. Toyota during Jan 1987 was 2009 Yen and today it lists for 8150 Yen. About a 300 percent return.

    I have no US$ figures since there were no Toyota ADRs back then. What US$-DM conversion rate did you use to determine that Porsche was $400?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Dewey,

    Of what significance is Houdini's beef with Porsche, highlighting the fact that the company is highly profitable. So, what?

    Me thinks Houdini is just throwing out bait.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    The Q7 has fallen on it's face.

    What do you mean by this? They sold 2,321 in the month of December. Not bad, especially for an Audi.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    some of you make up your mind how you are going to react to a post when you see the author's name and way before you actually read it. ;)
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    I wonder how many people with this common knowledge had the wherewithal to invest in Porsche in 97. As of last year their investment returned some 1700%.

    Peter Lynch once mention that shares of Subaru had gone up more than 100 fold (>10000%) in the late 70s to early 80s.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    Take off those rose-tinted Lexus glasses of yours and read the following (the truth may hurt but read it anyways):

    Audi R8 "advanced mechanicals" to be implemented in Lamborghini Gallardo.

    I suppose that does hurt the Lambo fans. That's call rebadging. Ford has done it with Jag/Aston and now it's VW's turn with VW/Audi/Lambo.

    But really, neither the R8 or Gallardo are significant to the auto world. Very few people would vote for these cars with their wallet (most would buy a 911 Turbo or SL65AMG instead).

    IMO Lamborghini has never been a good car brand---alway inferior to competitors of a similar or even lower price. Exclusivity may be the strongest point. Other than that, can only fool those whose only way of judging a car is to look at the price tag.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    "And they now sell as much as Subaru"

    I certainly hope that you meant price wise, as the Jetta alone almost sells out the entire Subaru line-up
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I urge you to really think before you type.

    You now say that no Lamborghini has ever been "significant"?

    Ignorance is bliss, thus, I won't entertain it as such.

    And then you go on to talk about rebadging. Who beats Toyota/Lexus and GM at this?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Very few people would vote for these cars with their wallet (most would buy a 911 Turbo or SL65AMG instead).
    IMO Lamborghini has never been a good car brand---alway inferior to competitors of a similar or even lower price. Exclusivity may be the strongest point.

    I take it you dont like Lambos too much? Well why dont you compare your statement above with the facts below? Apparently there are far too many oversized wallets relentlessly pursuing Lambo ownership:

    Now an infusion of German cash is helping Lamborghini burn rubber. In 1998, automaker Audi (VLKAY) bought the company. After spending some $500 million revamping production and developing models, Lamborghini has the scale to mount a real challenge to Ferrari. In 2006, Lamborghini says it sold more than 2,000 cars, and sales in the U.S. shot up 48% in the first 10 months alone. The company today has about 100 showrooms worldwide, up from only 45 in 1998. Ferrari still has roughly twice as many dealers, but in 2007 Lamborghini plans to add 10 more in such far-flung locales as Mumbai and Kiev.

    Besieged with orders, Lamborghini's factory in Sant'Agata Bolognese, near Modena, is running full tilt, turning out 10 cars daily. That's brisk, considering it takes a worker an entire day just to cut and hand-stitch one leather seat. Still, it's not fast enough for all the Lamborghini lovers getting in line. Both the 640 hp Murcielago and the 520 hp Gallardo have a one-year waiting list. "Lamborghini was always a hotter brand than Ferrari," says Garel Rhys, a professor of automotive economics at Cardiff University in Wales. "But it never translated into higher sales."

    VERSACE INTERIORS
    With sales finally soaring, Lambor­ghini is on a stronger financial footing, too. Cost-cutting has helped boost 2006 operating margins to nearly 4%, up from 1.8% in 2005, Morgan Stanley (MS) estimates. The brokerage predicts pretax profit could more than double in 2007, to $14 million, as revenues increase 30% to $400 million. That's still small compared with Ferrari's expected 2006 sales of $1.9 billion and 5,400 cars. But by tapping into Audi's engineering expertise, purchasing power, and supplier relationships, Lamborghini could eventually match Ferrari's sales--and surpass its 12% operating margin.

    To preserve its super-luxury image, Lamborghini will take a page from Ferrari and pursue profits over growth. In 2007, it expects to expand sales less than 10%. "We are a niche of a niche," says Chief Executive Stephan Winkelmann. "You can't increase volume at the snap of a finger." The former Fiat (FIA) executive wants to boost earnings with limited-edition models packed with pricey options. One example: a run of 20 Murcielagos with interiors designed by fashion house Versace--and selling for $500,000    .

    Businessweek
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Audi's 900K worldwide sales to Lexus' 450K or so worldwide sales is not really all that impressive a win for Audi as some of you may lead the board to believe. Numero uno, Audi has been on the world stage alot longer than Lexus has, in fact Lexus isn't even on the world stage fully yet and it will still take years to come to become a global player. Becoming a global player doesn't happen overnight, just ask Audi for example. Second, the majority of Audi's sales come from Europe, which first and foremost is full of nationalistic and protectionist population---they prefer to buy their own products, whereas especially American's and to a lesser degree Asians will buy anything from anywhere. In Japan it's kinda like in the US, they love the imported stuff, especially for the ones that can afford it. And let's not forget where the majority of Audi's sales come from worldwide, from lower end models where Lexus doesn't even compete such as stripped down A3's, A4's, etc. And let's not forget fleet sales in Europe where you see plenty of Benz's, Audi's, BMW's, as taxi cabs and police cars. So not exactly a apples to apples comparison despite what a Audi exec would lead one to believe.

    But Lexus is not without their faults. A big part of the european brands success in their own market also is because of the diesel products, something which the Asian automakers basically refuse to do. I would see Audi's worldwide sales lead wither away if Lexus starting dumbing down their product line with $20K IS's and offering a LS with 5 or 6 engine choices. Really to be a success in Europe you have to learn from the European carmakers and offer diesels and a multiple engine choices in every model line sold.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    I take it you dont like Lambos too much? Well why dont you compare your statement above with the facts below? Apparently there are far too many oversized wallets relentlessly pursuing Lambo ownership

    WOW, 2000! Like it's making any impact to the world market.

    If there are so "many oversized wallets relentlessly pursuing Lambo ownership", why did Lambo got into bankrupcy in the 1st place? And why is it a partial factor (that factor also included Phaeton and Bugatti) of VW's big loss and lay off of 20,000 workers? The VW boss's personal fancy about Lambo is not enough to convince the world the superiority of it.

    Offering a 600+hp in a $200k car can be done by any manufacture. Just most are rational enough not to do it at a loss. The true winner Porsche (and Lexus in the coming years) offer models that are as fast, much cheaper and more reliable at a profit.

    Conclusion: a good car model should at least be able to survive on its own. That's the bare minimum requirement. :lemon:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We are here to talk about the HIGH END cars. We are not here to talk about other members, we are not here to talk about Subarus, VWs and the like, we are not here to declare we aren't going to talk about something (if that's the case, then just don't talk about it, why make an issue of it?), we are not here to talk about anything but the high end vehicles.

    I'm finding that more and more posts are being made with invisible ink; some of you should be noticing that as well.

    Let's get back on track here, please. This is a valuable discussion when it isn't being trashed with stuff that just doesn't belong. I know that everyone here is here because they enjoy talking about these vehicles. So let's do it, okay?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Audi has been on the world stage alot longer than Lexus has,

    No, not really. Audi is relatively a newcomer in the luxury segment of the auto industry. Is anybody old enough to remember the Audi Fox of the 70s?

    in fact Lexus isn't even on the world stage fully yet and it will still take years to come to become a global player.

    The same thing has been said about Cadillac and Lincolns several decades ago. Lexus products are 21st Century Cadillac products that primarily serves American taste for plush rides. That is the real reason for the lack of interest in Lexus cars beyond North American borders. The Japanese themselves lack interest in Lexuses.

    the majority of Audi's sales come from Europe, which first and foremost is full of nationalistic and protectionist population

    Nope! Germany never ever imposed trade quotas or hefty tariffs on Japanese cars like USA did in the 1980s. Audi thrived not by nationalism but by competing successfully. Audis are loved by Europeans not because of nationalistic reasons(the French, Russians and Italians do not consider themselves German) but because of the cars themselves.

    Really to be a success in Europe you have to learn from the European carmakers and offer diesels and a multiple engine choices in every model line sold.

    So far that aint happening. The Lexus IS diesel is a joke in terms of competing with European diesels.

    And let's not forget where the majority of Audi's sales come from worldwide, from lower end models where Lexus doesn't even compete such as stripped down A3's, A4's, etc.

    So what? An A3 and an A4 are premium priced cars in their segments and they are premium priced because they are worth it. And Lexus is soon going to introduce an A3 competitor. Will that dillute the image of a Lexus LS or a LF-A? I dont think so!

    And let's not forget fleet sales in Europe where you see plenty of Benz's, Audi's, BMW's, as taxi cabs and police cars.

    Fortunately European Audi owners are not as class conscious or obsessed with bling like us North Americans. A Audi taxi driver will not turn off Europeans from buying Audis. For Europeans I consider that a positive not a negative.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    WOW, 2000! Like it's making any impact to the world market. The true winner Porsche (and Lexus in the coming years) offer models that are as fast, much cheaper and more reliable at a profit.

    Most Porsches are not suppose to be ulta exotic cars like Lambos. A Lambo and a Porsche exist for two different types of buyers. Hundreds of thousands of Lambos manufactured every year would defeat the purpose of a Lambo . A Lambo exists as a dream car for the very few who can afford it. A Lambo is defined by its exclusivity not by its sales numbers.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    I'm in Louisville for the weekend for work, At Freedom Hall convention center I'm playing in one section, the Louisville car show is in another part.......and Audi is nowhere to be found.

    It's obvious that in some places, shall we say "Bible belt", Foreign cars of the high falutant variety, are not welcome. Even BMW, and Mercedes have a rather small presence.

    Unsurprisingly, Ford, followed by Chevy is the most cramped part of the show. Followed by Dodge, then Toyota.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Is anybody old enough to remember the Audi Fox of the 70s?

    The Audi Fox... A car that Consumer Reports gave high praise to, only to end up another one of CR's blunders, as the Fox turned out to be a disaster.

    Most recent CR blunder... baby car seats tested at over 70 mph impact instead of 35 mph. Good work, CR. No wonder the test results were all scrambled up.

    Subscribe? No thanks!

    TagMan
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles