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Comments
:Just voted the VW Toureg SUV of the year over the Cadillac SRX, Lexus , etc.
And, Car and Driver had the Toureg in last place in it's SUV test....
SO, what else is new?
I love to drive and 75% of the ownership equation is how the car performs, drives and handles. However, it's not a museum piece, I need it to function (well) every day, not cost a fortune to maintain, have dealers that actually care about repeat clientele and be worth something 3-4 years and 80k miles later. From my experience, that pretty much eliminates the VW, Audi and Jaguar from my consideration, although Jag's definitely seem to be rising in reliability and resale.
Regarding merc1's comments about Lexus being a "created" name, exactly! It may not have meant anything day one in the USA, but it didn't have any baggage associated with it either. The VW name however, recalls everything from the "Peoples Car" mantra of the early Bug, through the "ugly is Pretty" campaigns of the mid-60's. Add in the baby boomer experiences with the engineering masterpieces like the 1st and 2nd generation Rabbit, the Dasher, and the other assorted VW misfits before the took a serious approach to the US market and you end up with a lot of folks who are skeptical of VW moving upmarket from economical family transportation with a Euro bent. From the inventories of Touraeg's on the Atlanta dealers lots, I'd say they're not blowing out the door either. BMW's probably done the best job of moving their brand image upmarket. In the early '70's, a 2002 could be had for 3K. Even the first 5 series car in the late 70's was well under 10k. BMW created that image on the performance reputation their product always had, adding luxury and room onto the rep as they're product line grew. Never did they stray from performance as the main selling feature of their product, however.
Good luck to VW and their dealers in moving Phaeton's, from the way they were discounting w8 Passats however, I wouldn't be surprised to see Phaeton's advertised at 10k off sticker in the near future.
We already know which car is the JDP star.
M
M
For cars that have such an impact with the public they are produced and bought in very low numbers.
YTD thru September 2003 vs. 2002
MB S-Class:
YTD 2003 15,981
YTD 2002 14,534
Even with all the complaining about MB quality, sales are up.
BMW 7 Series
YTD 2003 14,410
YTD 2002 16,296
BMW has a problem on their hands. New model ands sales are DOWN.
Lexus LS
YTD 2003 15,583
YTD 2002 19,909
Lexus updated the LS just in time. '03 sales were way down. No '04s are in these numbers.
To put things in perspective, the E-class sold 15k more in the first 9 months than last year's 2002 model.
Electrical gremlins have not hurt sales of that car at all.
I guess world wide sales allow these luxury cars to be profitable.
Probably the reason Cadillac is exploring sales in Asia and Europe.
I still haven't gotten my Car and Driver yet either (Ca). I wonder why they they didn't test the XJR. The price(approx. $74,000) is in the same range as for a loaded LS430 and much less than the S430.
Now you got your Automobile before me so the geography somehow balances thess things out.
The local newspaper reviews I quoted earlier also noted the slowed LS sales for the 2003 model year, and suggested that as the reason Toyota/Lexus had to make such vast improvement to the '04 model. The review was titled: "Wake-up call". To drive the point home, the reviewer quoted an Acura exec's response on "... why so much high-end content was been made standard on a new model". The reply: "To keep the brand alive"
My opinion on Merc's electrical gremlins not having any noticeable effect on sales is that since the first 4 years of service are covered by Mercedes, new buyers don't have to worry that much. Only those buying 3+ yr old CPO's have to worry about the car's reliability concerns.
ljflx:
I don't subscribe to these mags, but will like to read what the reviews of the high end cars in the SCI and Automotive mags were.
______
Sales. I'm not sure why certain publications make so much out of a sales decline of a car (LS430) that was introduced back in 2001. The S-Class had a similar slide in 2002 before the facelifted 03' model came out. It happens to every car over it's production cycle. Intro=hot sales, few years production = sales drop, refresh = sales gain, then new model and cycle repeats. This in no way means the end of Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi or anyone else. The only time this would spell trouble is if the car in question is new and flops, like the Q45 or M45, then you have a true "situation" on your hands. That combined with no new product would spell the end of a luxury brand, but that isn't even the case with Infiniti. A new Q and M are on the way it seems.
I will say the Europeans are a little better with keeping the variants coming over time to keep a model interesting. Seeing as how Mercedes now sells a lot of 4Matic S-Classes and VW twins have awd, I expect the next LS and even XJ to offer awd.
Acura's situation is somewhat different as they don't truly have a flagship car. The new TL makes the RL obsolete, to put it mildly.
They've adjusted to not selling many RLs.
blockislandguy,
Actually it's two Ford Duratec V6s not V8s.
M
Sometimes word of mouth or option bundling, incentives etc. Cause rises in production.
Chevy Impala is selling double what it was in 2000.
Chevy Tahoe is up over 2000 also.
It is intersting that the LS series has seen very low price increases over the last several years.
M
I'm very glad that most high end marques have avoided the incentive game, especially the factory to consumer type. That and the limited supply (no fleet sales to Hertz, Avis) accounts for the considerably better resale values of not only the high-end cars, but also the mainstream products like the Honda Accord that avoid propping up their sales figures.
Did you guys know that GM had 20 price increases last year!!!!
Did you know that the Impala's MSRP has gone up over $1000 every year.
While the Lexus LS's has gone up about $500.
Yes GM has been offfering 3-4K incentives but my 25.5K 2001 Impala LS now costs almost 29K!!!
Hardly a bargain.
You would have been hard pressed to get a 2000 Tahoe for much off of MSRP.
Now 7-8K off is not uncommon.
Luckily the high end market has avoided this by offering value and superior build quality.
Lets see. We will raise the price and make Onstar optional, and the side airbag. We'll take the gearshift indicator off the console, trunk net, floor mats, coin holder, etc. etc.
sales - you know I went into my Lexus dealer in early September and there wasn't an LS in sight save for older ones that were being sold as certified cars. They had sold out their LS allotment and were waiting on the 2004's for which they had a lot of advanced orders. So here is a big volume guy with no cars to sell for nearly a month. The reason was supposedly the factory had cut over to the new model and had stopped production on the 2003's. So the natural result is lower sales. It also seems the entire market is down slightly and this is the result of the economy. So I also don't put much stock in the sales figures for 2003 ytd. Lexus goal for the LS has always been 20-25k in sales with the higher figure in the initial year or two of production. They happened to hit north of 30k in the 2001 model year which surprised them but they had only sold around 14k cars in the 2000 model year - the last year of the LS400. Likewise the E is having great sales because of its new model year. That plus the fact that the last model year has a naturally lower production count as the factory switches over, leads always to a larger percentage gain just based on units produced. In addition the gain is overstated as buyers hold off on the old and wait for the new.
Wow ! A dealer won't take your $88K check of REAL money !!! That is unbelievable to me, since only an infinitesimal few buyers ever write the full check of their car purchase. There has to be other Merc dealers who'd treat you better and make you feel like a king or queen with that amount of purchase. Shop around.
Just for fun you might try driving the Jag and LS 430 (Ultra) and the big Audi.
My point is that it is far cleaner to write up a deal on CASH purchase than the long drwan out bank/dealer finance paperwork. Can't understand why a dealership would pass that up even if it means a few pennies of lost profit. Isn't the less paperwork appealing enough in losing a lousy penny of profit ? I guess not !
For the board - I don't want to go back there but all those cars that our friend Boo20 said were impossible to get and required as much as a 6-18 month wait were on the list in multiples. But this time they had 2004 in front of them. Again - the list was a 10% representation of all cars available.
I finally got to read that C&D comparo. The S430 they used must have had ABC also, another pricey, seldom-ordered S430 option. I say this because on the spec page they list all the others, except the 745i and S430 as having air springs. They list hydraulic springs for the S430, it must have been a ABC equipped car. No wonder the car cleaned up in the chassis deptartment, but had a eye-popping price. I still don't see how the Phaeton beat the S430 though with all the little niggles they complained about. A similarly priced S500 Sport I think would at least beat the Phaeton and A8. Reading this test underlines where the editors were in terms of preference this time around, ride comfort and features. The three of the four German cars that had athletic handling (S430,745i,A8) and provided more "fun" in their driving experience didn't dominate this time around. Interesting. There has never been a Jaguar XJ in any other place than last before now. What a triumph for Jaguar. Another note of interest, the complaints about the Phaeton and A8's body shake and quivering over bumps. VW has stated that Phaeton is easily the world's most solid and rigid car. I wonder what happened?
M
M
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2031104.003/mercedes- - -benz/1.html
Of particular note: S-Class and SL-Class sales for Oct 03' vs Oct 02' are way up.
BMW:
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2031104.004/bmw/1.ht- - ml
Of particular note: Sales gains are built mainly on the 5-Series and Z4.
No info on Lexus, Audi or Jaguar for Oct yet, or at least I couldn't find it.
M
However, I don't think we should read too much into one month.
I'm also at a loss as to how the S430 scored so low. To me the embodiment of the S-class is always the S500 so I also think they used the weong car. This is another reason why I don't put much reliance on the actual copmparisons. But the individual comments about the cars themselves are noteworthy.
December 1989
(Ranking, car, tested price, engine, hp, 0-60 time)
1. Lexus LS 400, $42,650, V8, 250, 8.6
2. Infiniti Q45, $38,350, V8, 278, 7.9
3. Audi V8 Quattro, $49,435, V8, 240, 10.2
4. BMW 735i, $55,140, I6, 208, 10.3
5(T). Jaguar Sovereign, $43,500, I6, 220, 9.6
5(T). Mercedes 420SEL, $62,600, V8, 201, 9.3
6. Cadillac STS, $36,870, V8, 180, 9.2
It's a testament to the real value of the car. Maybe this will inspire you to consider a different make.
Okay, I get it. But then how do Lexus and BMW build cars that are even faster without using expensive-to-repair aluminum (according to Car & Driver)? If Lexus and BMW can do it, why can't Jaguar? Why go through all the expense of using aluminum when cars can be designed just as fast, and faster, using traditional materials?
I just don't get the advantages of using aluminum. Perhaps Jaguar should be touting advantages other than making the car faster.
This is in no way anything negative toward the car, but more questioning the wisdom of the marketing strategy.
1) Better gas mileage (could see 35mpg RX400H next year) The 2004 Prius is factory rated to 55mpg !
2) Power boost, where a V6 feels and accelerates like a V8 !
3) All of these with zero emmisions (PZEV)
and
4) Depending on which state you live in, you could get a tax credit or tax deduction (according to IRS) for owning one (see: fndlyfmrflyr "Toyota Prius 2004+" Oct 29, 2003 10:46pm
More interesting read on the auto industry and hybrids is here:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_43/b3855072.htm