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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • chavis10chavis10 Member Posts: 166
    Well, the base prices are competitive. $48k for the V-8 and $41k for the V-6. However, just like the SRX, I'm sure the option packages will add up quickly. With current reliability and complexity woes of some of the German products, I don't think the STS will have too much of a problem being competitive. The interesting thing is that people will buy what they want regardless of price and competition. Think about the Phaeton. Why is the W12 version $25k cheaper than the A8L W12? They basically are the same car with the same equipment. However, I doubt anyone who wants the A8 will get the cheaper Phaeton. Some people have been waiting for a worthy american expensive luxury sedan and the new STS fulfills that need. If anything, it should draw buyers who want something a little different. I mean, obviously no one has driven it, but on paper it sacrifices nothing to any other car in its class.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    Price at this Level is everything. Price=Prestige. If Cadillac goes for ‘Value’ and they are not, then they price themselves out of the market. Like Infiniti.

     They have to look for ways to deliver Value without sacrificing Prestige. How is Cadillac doing this? By Amerisizing! Give a bigger car for less money. Traditional American cars are big so Cadillac can get away with bigger cars for a class lower. The Market also lets you decide whom you are up against, so naturally Cadillac has an upper hand. The CTS is a 3 Series, C Class fighter. But it’s much bigger.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Perhaps I overlooked something on the Caddy web site.

    I assumed the SRX would be "representative" of the MSRP's for the new STS (minus a bit, as "station wagons" generally are priced higher than the sedan versions of cars). I have assumed, too, that the STS is the sedan version of the SRX (hopefully this conclusion is accurate, in "spirit" at least).

    Therefore a V8 equipped, and nicely optioned AWD SRX for $55+K should translate into, perhaps, a $53+K STS ([non-permissible content removed] for tat, features and options, that is).

    Where are the prices (base) for the new STS posted (with authority)?

    Thanks!
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    I assumed that the STS would be more upscale than the SRX. It appears to have a different dash. We shall see.
  • chavis10chavis10 Member Posts: 166
    Cadillac released pricing info yesterday. That STS will priced above the SRX because it is the flagship of the brand. The XLR maybe the halo car but the STS will display the most technology. The STS is not the sedan equivalent of the SRX, that would be the CTS. Go to media.gm.com to find the "official" info if you aren't taking my word for it.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Yet another ugly butt. Absolutely horrible, underdeveloped lines especially in profile. And that GS... WOW is it a pig. The whole Toyota conglomerate like BMW needs to fire their design departments and start from scratch. You LS lovers better start praying.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I hope you are James Spader in the short-lived nut-job-lawyer role in "The Practice". This is the funniest, most creative and refreshing role to come to network TV in ages. Too bad it didn't last.
  • gscoupegscoupe Member Posts: 30
    and in a very preliminary stage, so nobody needs to start praying. The eventual car will be toned down and look very different.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Designman: I submit it is your BMW designer, ehm... Mr Chris Bangle, that should be fired after such collosal failures like the new 5 and new 7. I mean, what more can one man do to destroy so much in so short a time ???

    WRT Toyota/Lexus, these are concepts. Remember ? Not production vehicles yet. Like gscoupe said, things will change moving forward. This design does not scare me one bit. As an LS owner, I am looking forward to the 2007 model year, and then we'll see, won't we ? If the new LS is anything close to the LF-S concept, I am SOLD ! That simple !!! Not what many BMW fans can say about their recent models of the 5- and 7-, eh ????
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'm a done deal already in 2007 - sight unseen. I'm sure it will be a classy looking car and very LF-S like. The 2004 is just an interim car for me and a very spectacular one at that. Have no desire to even think about any other car in the segment right now. That's how good this 2004 is and 2007, when it arrives, will be a killer. I just hope I'm delayed enough at April 2 to avoid a wait list. But that is 3 years out anyway. Can you imagine that there are people out there that can't (or don't want to) understand how much LS owners enjoy their cars. They really believe the boring crap.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I'll respond to yours on the LS board. Gotta keep Pat happy :)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    A severe misunderstanding - nobody said that Lexus LS owners don't enjoy their cars or that the owners themselves found the car to be boring.....far from it obviously, reading this and the LS board.
    What people have said is that they find the LS to be boring (to them) compared to the other cars in the class. Big difference. Trust me, by reading all the comments about leather, paint colors, nav systems and stereos everyone here knows that you and other LS owners love their cars, it just doesn't sound exciting to others because they look for or place emphasis on different things in a car. One person's excitement is another person's yawn.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yes that Lexus concept is gawd-awful, but what do you think about the Buick Velite? It kinda reminds me of the SC430, but looks a whole lot better to me. Don't blame the Lexus fans for thinking the styling will change on the LF-C before it reaches production because the LF-S tricked them, the new GS debuted looking nothing like the LF-S. Someone, either at Toyota or in their fan base doesn't understand the point of "concept" cars. To show a concept and then radically change it for production is bass-ackwards. Why bother with the concept car in the first place?

    M
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Ah yet, the 06 GS carries so many styling cues with the LF-S!
  • gscoupegscoupe Member Posts: 30
    We all know when the LF-S concept and the new GS made their appearance in the autoshows, so it isn't a surprise at all that new GS doesn't look like the LF-S. So nobody got tricked by anyone here.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I totally disagree with you that the new GS does not look at all like the LF-S. Over in the future vehicles forum I posted a link to another website which was removed because it's against Edmunds' rules. Anyway, the link showed the 2006 GS and the LF-S side-by-side and head-on. If you saw these photos together you would realize how similar the two cars actually are.

    DrFill was like you and thought the cars were not alike. He briefly saw the link before it was removed and immediately posted "I stand corrected" and indicated the cars are more similar than he realized.

    Of course, you'll always think the cars don't look alike. But I would have liked you to see the two side-by-side anyway.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    “Someone, either at Toyota or in their fan base doesn't understand the point of "concept" cars. To show a concept and then radically change it for production is bass-ackwards. Why bother with the concept car in the first place?”

    Merc1... Well said. In addition, I would point out that concept cars usually look better than the production models and give us insight into the talent of the designers and strategy of the marketers. That LF-C looks like a rough-hewn first draft that was never meant to be seen outside the think tank.

    Anyway I’m not going to dwell on concept cars but prefer to criticize the production models. My worst nightmare is coming to fruition… Bangle is being copied. The back end of the 06 GS is painfully similar to the 5-series. Even the 05 RL, which I am mostly pleased with, shows Bangle motifs on the trunk although subdued.

    LS crew… I’m glad you guys are happy with your cars and I am first in line with the respect I have for Japanese reliability. I surely hope the LS evolves into the elegant, continuously reliable car I’m imagining and I believe they have a handle on the preferences of buyers in the upper end. But sorry, their designers are shooting in the dark as they are with the entire ugly Toyota lineup. If you believe the LS is immune from quality issues and the flaky, fashion whims of auto marketing you are kidding yourselves. But then again, I envy the blind faith that some of you have. If you can buy what they dole out without question, you are in some ways fortunate. I have no emotional equity in any brand. BMW and Porsche have appealed to me for a long time but BMW is now on my spit list. If Porsche reneges on it’s evolutionary minimal design philosophy I’ll drop them too, but I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon unless it’s by default due to their financial concerns. The upcoming 997 911 in spy shots still presses my buttons. The fact that the Boxster is growing roots is a great sign. And watch out for that elusive Porsche sedan!

    Merc1… Buick Velite… I can see the SC430 impression, but mostly, I see three influences… Infiniti, Mazda and Honda, specifically G35 and S2000. I find the elliptical trunk tier offensively discordant. The overall shape/lines are fluid and pleasing but the plagiarism sticks in my craw… more “me too” risk management at work here.
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    I combined these photos to show both sides to the story. :-)

    image
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
      The Styling discussion here is quite telling. As I've said in earlier posts none of the carmarkers are really hitting me with their designs these days. Lexus' problem has been for a much longer duration than the others IMHO. As they refreshed their cars, (The LS in particular) the design became blander. Take the LS400..The 95 design was an awful attempt to preserve the old look. The 98 refresh looked better, but was a pretty bland looking design. The LS430 debut was disappointing in the sense that it very closely resembled the old S class.

    After saying this, some might ask why I bother buying these LS cars..The bottom line was ownership experience. The LS at least still offers reliablity and durability second to none. I do feel on absolute terms their quality level has fallen from the original LS, but comparatively, it's still the benchmark. I only hope the '07 LS is better in aesthetics than the older cars. I'd seriously consider buying another nameplate if the '07 is yet another S Class clone.

    SV
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'm on a different page than you with the 95 and 98 LS cars. I thought they were both excellent updates of the original car. I preferred both to the 1990-1994 cars. From my view the redesigns replaced the boxy look of the original car with a sleeker more aerodynamic look but still maintained its overall style. As well I see Lexus quality equal to or even higher than the early 1990's. The 2004 is built like a tank and even the glovebox sounds like a bank vault when you close it. I also find the SC, GS, GX, LX and RX have incredibly high build quality. I can't speak for the IS and ES as I have hardly been in them.

    Designman - 9 perfect years and 250,000+ perfect miles makes you stay loyal to a brand. It's that simple for me plus I love the design of the 2004 LS - in and out - and the ride, build quality and engineering even more. Its the same reason MB owners stayed so loyal to their cars for so many years. They delivered perfection or near perfection as well in the past. That's why I already have so much confidence in the 2007. I have no doubt it will be a beautiful car with meaningful general improvements over the 2004 model and a groundbreaking fuel technology that will be highly desired to boot. Hey - a bunch of owners are looking forward to a car that is three years out. That speaks volumes about the quality and equity of the brand.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Not really a board subject but maybe it should be. Per the NY Times the 2005 RL will have a 300HP V6, AWD and a NAV system that gives up to the minute traffic reports via XM satellite radio. Fully loaded it's a $50k car. Good looking car that should be hot. Puts the 5 series to shame in looks based on pix I saw. Given looks, new technology and Acura reliability this would hit my garage before an E-series as well. Looks like Acura has set its sights to compete more with the mid level German cars and the upcoming GS rather than go after the LS crowd which they had no chance to convert. Smart decision if that is the case.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    It is such a shame that Acura refuses to put a V-8 in their car so they can step up to the real luxury class in the US.

    They don't seem to understand or we don't understand (it is 300hp) either way to sell in the luxury class they will need a V-8 or straight 8 or v-10 or v-12.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I've never understood it either. A V8 for the lux sedan, the NSX and a large suv makes sense from a consumer standpoint. The lack of a V8 continues to hurt them. Regardless they still make very high quality cars.
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    One problem that the domestic manufacturers will have as they move upscale is the typical American (car) sales experience. It's going to be hard to get them to hire, teach, and retain sales and service people who can relate to the customer base that Caddy aspires to. People in polyester with penciled in names on their business cards aren't going to cut it.

    In New England, most Caddy dealers are dualled with another GM line (during the lean years for Caddy, how else could they heat the building?). They are poorly positioned to go after the upscale customer. Poor facilities, poor people, poor locations in blue collar areas (e.g., Auburn, MA vs. Westboro, MA). etc. Does a software engineer, JD, MD, etc. really want to drop 60K on a performance sedan and then have to wait behind a Pontiac Sunbird customer for service? Does he want to deal with a Pontiac salesperson ("so, what'll it take to put you in this car today?")?.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Member Posts: 491
    More cylinders do not necessarily make a better engine. I6s are better balanced engines than a V8 from an engineering point of view. But of course V8s have legendary status in the USA.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Sorry, but I think you're in denial if you think the LF-S and the new GS look anything alike. The LF-S if I remember right was swoopy, low and had a very airy looking roofline. The new GS is just a rehash of the previous GS, only it looks even more bulbous and ungainly than before especially in the rear. The LF-S looked nothing like this. The two cars are completely different from the B-pillar rearward. There is big difference between carrying styling "cues" of a concept car and looking like a toned-down version of one. The new GS is neither compared to the LF-S. I'll review your case again though (lol) send me the link. Also, I don't remember DrFill changing his opinion on the new GS not looking like the LF-S, but I'll take your word for it because I don't remember what topic that was.

    designman,

    Yeah I saw that too on the new RL. The trunklid where it meets the back glass is slightly Bangle looking. Overall the new RL looks like a fancy Accord, even more so than the new TL, another bass-ackwards move from Honda. Some of the posters on the RL (future vehicles) board are seeing the same resemblance to the Bangle trunklid. The new RL looks awfully small too, so I'll have to see it in person. BTW, there is a new 530i in my parent's neighborhood, in Black. I have to say I like the new look on the 5, but never the 7.

    That Buick is pretty good looking in my book, it would do wonders for their image. Now let us see if GM will allow Buick to build it and build it correctly.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    For the record the new Acura RL's V6 will at the very least will be competitive with the V8s in the middle-class in hp, while giving up a little ground in torque, and the delivery of it.

    However to understand Honda as a whole is to realize why they won't build a V8. When you look the sales numbers of the E500 vs E320, GS430 vs GS300, 545i vs 530i, S-Type 4.2 vs 3.0, Q45, M45 and others you'll see that the 6-cylinder versions outsell the V8 versions anywhere from a little bit (E-Class) to a huge amount (GS300 vs GS430 is like 4 or 5 to 1) or they don't sell at all (Infinitis). V8s are mainly for image and a select few as the majority buy the 6-cylinder versions of these sedans.

     Honda being the little, shrewd, conservative company that they are can't see spending the $$ required to enter this segment with a class-leading car, which of course is what they would be shooting for. They aren't going to half do it, so it's all-out or no entry.

    Think about it, to build class leading car like the TL in the upper segment would take a major investment from Honda: a 5-Series beating rwd platform and a brand new from the ground up V8. Honda's culture won't allow it to scrimp on either item...in other words big bucks would need to be spent. Those two things on top of making everything this class of car requires as standard equipment (the Acura way) would prove to be costly for Honda. They also need another car to spread the costs of that V8 and RWD over. What else would they use this new RWD chassis under? The new V8 could be shared with the next NSX, but the chassis probably couldn't (mid-engine placement). It will be another 10 years or so before Honda summons the courage (i.e. business case) to do a RWD V8 sedan. Remember how long it took them to put a V6 in the Accord?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    A "bunch" of LS430 owners are looking foward to the next generation hybrind LS variant, but thousands of diesel Benz owners (who've been holding on to their cars far longer than these 3 year leases) couldn't possibly have the same outlook and anticipation for the new generation of diesel cars??? Right.

    M
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Never said anything about the Benz owners not looking forward to their future cars. Besides I'm the lessee of the group - the others are owners, in some cases for many years and many miles. You take praise and enthusiasm for Lexus as an attack on Benz even though there is no such thing going on.

    If you look at any comparison of engines in car lines the smaller engine sells more units. The Camry 4 easily outsells its V6 brother. Its price, not engine size that does it. My LS430 does almost as well in gas mileage as my mothers V6 Camry so its not gas mileage that is much of an issue either, at least as relates to 6 and 8 cyl engines.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Performance sedans are hot and I expect them to get hotter. Acura is backing the right horse, not only in this area but also with the advanced SH-AWD. Ljflx you hit the nail on the head with the RL competing with the 5-series... it sure has my attention.

    Every car in their lineup is now sporty. Expect them to pilfer buyers from all corners including converts from pure luxury to sport-luxury with the RL. I could care less about a V8. Going from 220 to 300 hp is significant. And if it comes with a weight loss and tight sport suspension it will do the trick in my book.

    TL seems to be a smash hit. Will RL hit back-to-back? I'll venture to say yes.

    Merc1, you're right the RL does look small but I read it is roomier than the 5. IMO these are good signs. I'd like to see them slim down the spokes though.

    Can't wait to get to the NY show.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Will the 300 hp. Acura do 5.8 sec like the 04 LS 430 sport will do.

    I am guessing NO even though it is several hundred pounds lighter.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I could care less about the LS' 5.9 secs. The M3 sucks the doors off my Boxster S... I wouldn't go near it based on ride quality and handling. I'm thinking total package with the RL... AWD, handling, decent power, good looks, superb Acura fit, finish, touches, reliability... at a much lower price than the LS.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    I always though this is Cadillacs Bigest Nightmare. Its Dealerships.
    There is one in Longbeach who oparates out of containers next to the Freeway.
    He has had an XLR that hasn't sold from the time they were hot.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    What about the RL is so compelling that it goes up against the LS rather than the GS or M?

    Sure, the GS300 trails in hp big-time, then the RL should be compared to the GS430, not the LS430.

    It certainly should be compared to the new M35 rather than the M45.

    Anyways, the SH-AWD is interesting, but we'll see how it translates on the pavement. The M will have an active rear suspension, we'll have to see about that one too.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    You guys can shoot this out all you want. I'll be listening, reading and waiting for its arrival. All I know is, I like what I see so far and am interested in it as the sequel to my 530, not an LS alternative (although don't be surprised if this happens). But it's early in the game... have to see it, drive it, and parse reviews. I wouldn't touch the GS or Ms with a 90-foot pole based on looks alone.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'll be curious to see what your thoughts are on the RL as you get closer to your buy/lease situation. The RL definitely looks smaller than before leading me even more to think its redrawing its competitive lines to the mid sedans rather than the larger marquees - which, as I said, it had no chance against with the existing model. Based on the little I've seen and now read of it I'd take it on paper over the 5, GS, E or A6 and certainly over Infiniti's dreaded M45. But paper and the real world are two different stories so it has to be experienced first. You're right - you'll get all that great Acura reliability and build quality as well. I think Acura will draw some of the BMW crowd given the poor designs BMW has come up with. Merc1 may like the 5 series but to me it looks like a shrunken 7 and a car that can't seem to figure out what it was supposed to look like.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    To each his own about looks. Based on photos, I'm very impressed with the design of the 2006 M, as many others seem to be on edmunds and other boards as well.

    The GS is okay, looks kinda bloated.

    The RL is inoffensive. "Boring" is the first thing that comes to my mind when I look at it.

    Maybe seeing the cars in person will be different.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I couldn't link to the photos of the LF-S and GS side-by-side because of Edmund's rules, but I found these links which will help show you the rooflines and side glass are nearly identical. From the side, even the back ends are very close (although the side taillights are different).

    It's very hard to compare photos like this when you have to keep switching back and forth between links, and the photos are different sizes, but hopefully you'll see how similar the two cars are from the side. To best see the similarities you may have to print each out and hold them next to each other.

    GS (scroll down):
    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?intAsvPageCurrent=8&s- - - - - - - ection_id=31&article_id=7671

    LF-S:
    http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/03tms_lexlfs/index1.html
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I've yet to go to the auto show and hence have not seen the GS in person. But I saw my cousin yesterday and he told me the GS is far better looking in the flesh than in the pictures he had seen earlier and people who saw it with him thought Lexus hit the mark with the car. I'll have to see it up close and decide.

    jrock - sorry - I was referring to the current M45.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You can link to anything except directly to another automotive message board - we've had a, um, rules adjustment, I'm happy to report. :-)

    If you see pics on another message board that you'd like to link to here, just find and link to the source rather than the message.

    Feel free to email me with questions, thoughts or comments.

    :)
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    After seeing the new GS in person both in Detroit and Chicago I thought it was a knockout. I agree with your cousin. Photos do not show all of the unique creases and shapes of the GS sheetmetal, especially the front end. I definitely feel the GS needs to be seen in person to be appreciated.

    That said, my mother will be trading in her 1999 GS 300 on the new one. The dealer told us it goes on sale March 1, 2005, and she'll be looking to get one around September 2005.

    How's the new LS 430?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    The new LS430 is spectacular. Rides like a dream, has tighter handling, more than enough road feel and is very quiet. The nappa leather is very rich and the antique walnut wood is stunning on the car. They've added nice touches from 2001. These are things like vanity mirrors that drop from the headliner for rear passengers (I am sure Lexus will turn these into DVD screens at some point), the rearview camera is great to have and the back-up sensors that detect something is behind you are there if you choose not to look at the camera view. There are other nice interior touches but I won't go into them here. The laser cruise is great and works perfectly on the highway and the car pushes itself to 75mph so effortlessly and so quickly that you stare down at the spedometer in disbelief that you are going that fast. Lastly smartkey is great. Like the nav system you wonder why you need it and once you have it you can't be without it. The only problem is that when I go to drive the GX I am expecting the door to open on contact with my hand like the LS does. But that lacks smartkey so it never does. My custom lux also has door closers and headlight washers. The only thing it really lacks is an air suspension. But the base suspension on this car is great anyway. Perhaps the best thing of all though is that Lexus has taken the body build of this car and the fit and finish to an even higher level if you can believe it. This car is a built like a tank. I also scored 23mpg on my initial refill of gas. Couldn't be happier with the car.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    BTW, my "boring" comment about the RL was about the exterior. The interior is awesome. I'm kind of going back and forth between the M and the RL as to which interior I like best.

    This is surprising because I've always preferred Lexus interiors. However, no doubt the quality of materials in the GS will be top notch.
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    MBUKUKANYAU, you know, I can recall a time back in the mid '50s to early '60s when the local Cadillac store was the finest in an area, the dealer principal lived in a big house up on the hill and was active in civic affairs, the sales guys were mature family men, and people thought it would be an honor to be able to buy a car from a dealer like that. Some business guys would even trade every year for the $700 or difference. Poor people, poor urban people lusted after a used Caddy (I had a drill Sgt at Ft Dix who called his new Buick 225 a Deuce-and-a-quarter). Then the market changed, GM gave them glorified Impalas to sell, and their sons and daughters went to law school.

    Do you think GM would be as badly screwed up if the senior management, Jack Smith on down, had to actually buy, drive and maintain their own cars from local dealers? Rather, the senior management has gotten as far away from the product as they can. This is not true among the senior people in Munich or Stuggart.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    "You take praise and enthusiasm for Lexus as an attack on Benz even though there is no such thing going on."

    Nope, not my take on it at all. I so see a double standard however. You argued boo20 up and down about waiting lists and such, yet you yourself experienced the same thing at your dealership when buying a new LS430, yet an AMG Benz or some other hot Benz like a CLK Cabriolet couldn't possibly have a waiting list or anyone waiting for them. You seem to imply that because you and a few other Lexus fans are waiting for a 2007 LS model (that you know nothing about yet) will be hot because of it's drivetrain, yet when I suggested that a diesel Benz (you know a car that actually goes on sale this month) might be equally sought after, that notion was met with "diesel won't make it" and such. Too much glossing over everything, only Lexus this and that in here nowadays.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Sorry, but I don't see a concept to production progression with the LF-S and the new GS. They did lift some styling cues from it though, but compared to the concept the GS is a major letdown. Especially the rear end, its nothing like the concept. Unless you're going to come close to the concept, the concept is a waste of time. Lexus needs to look at how other companies make the transfer from concept to production, most come much closer to the concept than Lexus has with the LF-S to GS. Look at the roofline and rear end of the two cars, they aren't even close!

    M
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. I never said there was a wait list for the LS430. I said my dealership (not the US or even a dealership 30 miles away) was sold out for April and that the Euro LS is hard to get around here. Go back and read my posts and tell me where I said there was a wait list. As for 2007 I am speculating and I honestly believe there will be so much demand for an LS hybrid that it will be a hard car to get at that time. What facts could I possibly have to support that other than my own intuition. Let's see how the RX hybrid plays out - that will certainly give the indications of what is to come. Someone else also said there is a long waitlist for the Prius. As well waitlists have to be tied in some way to production volume. Anyone can create a wait list - just produce a handful of cars.

    Now - diesel cars have never been easy to sell here. I don't know anyone that has any desire to even look at one. This has nothing to do with MB and everything to do with how the American public buys cars. It buys gas engines because that is what it has been trained to do and that is how the business model is set up. Hybrids don't change that model, diesels do. Business models don't change very easily. Nor will they change when there is a logical alternative that maintains the current model. This is not about Benz at all. Why else would MB only commit 3000 CDI's for the US market. Because they are uncertain about diesel demand and market reserach doesn't give them any confidence that they can sell more.

    Boo20 claimed that there were year+ wait list for cars across the whole US - in some cases ordinary E-500's, not even AMG's. So I look at my sunday paper and I see a bunch of them advertised for sale - prices and all - both ordinary cars and AMG's. Plus that was just a partial list. Thus I couldn't buy his story. Persoonally I couldn't care less as I was not in the market for any of the cars he was touting anyway.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    The Problem with senior management is loosing touch with their own product. I call it the CEO syndrome.
    You would be in a better position to run a company if you know what your customers go through.
    If you saw Cadillac Dealerships in San Diego, they look like a 1969 Time capsule. Complete with 70’s furniture, and a MacDonald’s next door
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