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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    "You get what you pay for"

    So, I guess the crappy 750iL is better than the S-Class?

    I have no problem talking about cars with others, but please say stuff that makes sense.

    For example, I would love for someone to tell me why the extra money is worth it for the Vanden Plas over the LS 400. I think the LS is a better car, and a lot cheaper.
  • edspider1edspider1 Member Posts: 195
    I hope Lexus doesn't read this forum. Sounds like there are lot of us that are really excited about the new LS. I've decided the LS is a better value than the S-Class. I've heard that even the current LS is quieter than the S-Class. Plus, I think I would prefer the smoother ride.

    I don't feel like bashing the S. Its a fantastic car, too. The dashboard is better than the LS and the Command center's integration with a window in the dashboard is outstanding. But of course the new Lexus DVD nature is superior to the CD-ROM based Command Center.

    Both are true luxury. Some prefer the quiet isolation of the LS, others prefer the "presence" of german luxury. The S-Class is not noisy and it's not rough. Its simply a different kind of comfort.

    I'm also tired of all the pricing confusion of the new LS. The Ultra package sounds like it will add 8-10K to the base, but if you consider what it includes, its seems like a good value to me.

    I think it unfortunate, but expected that the first deliveries will be Ultra equipped as I personally only want one option - GPS. I'm also bothered by the fact that they dumping the 2000 models at $5,000 off list. This causes me to see the 2001 as $5,000 more expensive than it really is.

    Finally, do you think the Toyota division is going to get the Celsior for sale here? I kinda of doubt it.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    edspider1,

    The Celsior is the Lexus LS430! In Japan their is no Lexus division therefore the LS430 is sold as the Toyota Celsior. Why would Toyota, in the US, sell the Celsior for $70K when Lexus would be selling the same car for $70K?
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    And the reason the 2000 LS400 is selling for $5K off sticker right now is to get rid of the last of the very few 2000 LS400s that they are producing.
    In the last year of a cars lifespan, cars are generally discounted heavily because of the eminent redesign. And actually in past years, the LS400 was discounted more than it has been in 2000.
  • vader4vader4 Member Posts: 15
    My favorite is the A8 it has the most STYLE.
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    "My favorite is the A8 it has the most STYLE."

    Please tell me you're kidding!
  • mjvargomjvargo Member Posts: 11
    I'm sorry, but for pure art on wheels styling you can't beat Jag.
  • vader4vader4 Member Posts: 15
    Is a personnal thing scrongro bet you're a 750IL kind of guy..but I still vote for the A8 :>)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I'm really shocked that you like an Audi. While I might not take it over the 750iL if I had to choose, but it's still one of my favorite cars.

    M
  • scongroscongro Member Posts: 80
    The 750iL is nice (and it has more style than an A8), but it's really not my cup of tea. Out of the Hi-end market, the only one that really turns me on is Jaguar's XJ-Series. However, I wouldn't buy one, because I like to have a friend in the front pass. seat, not my mechanic.
  • vader4vader4 Member Posts: 15
    I think Merc1 & I actually agree on something.. But remember my post specifically said "out of the ones listed" even that aside I like the A6 & A8 but I think they want way too much money for them
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    We just might.......

    M
  • bookman1906bookman1906 Member Posts: 5
    Hello everyone,

    I am having a tough time deciding where to land in the MBZ S class line-up. I read the 2001 brochure and really like what I see on the new S55. However, I am not sure that will be the sportier S class it intends to be. I never had the pleasure of pushing any of the AMG tuned MBZ vehicles but hear raves. I am also concerned on how long the S55 will last as an offering and don't want to miss the boat. I think it may become a prize like the 500 E class.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the S55 vs the S430/500. Think long term highway car with emphasis on power and comfort.

    FWIW, I haven't considered the LS430 but it looks tempting. Not am BMW fan. Tried to like it, but it just didn't grab me.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I think the best compromise, if you don't mind giving up a little power is the S500 Sport. The handling of the 2 shouldn't be too different. They both will last a long time, if maintained. I think the S55 will be around for the duration about the current S-Class, there may even be a supercharged version around the time the next AMG E-Class arrives (2004). The handling between the S55 and S500 Sport I would say is about the same, because there isn't much difference underneath, but of course the "regular" S500 will ride the best. I wouldn't get an S430, not enough power under the hood for the price. The 500E got so rare because it was a special project between Porsche and Mercedes-Benz. Easily my favorite W124 car, and one of the best Mercedes' of all-time. Highway comfort and power, go for the S500. Test drive one with and w/o the Sports package and go from there.

    M
  • is4b2rdis4b2rd Member Posts: 66
    If you go with the S500 Sport, DEFINITELY get the ABC suspension. I have it on my CL500 and it is fantastic! The best ride and best handling, with no drawbacks on either one.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I forgot about ABC. Get it too, then except for the engine power you'd have 90% S55.

    M
  • hpphpp Member Posts: 1
    My wife and I have decided to get a 2000 S430. Would anyone please give me some suggestions or tell me how much I should pay over the invoice?

    Thank you
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    hpp,

    You're going to pay very close to full price(MSRP) or MSRP for a 2001 S430. I doubt there are any 2000 S430s available at this point in the year.
  • bookman1906bookman1906 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks to all for the responses. I do spend quite a bit of time on highway and love to cruise. The wait time had me concerned and I took a '00 E430 out for the day to see if I could go that route. I had a beautiful time with the E430. Unfortunately, I am convinced that I want the comfort seat option.

    I am exploring the options of purchasing an S500 with the ABC suspension and a few other options.

    Thanks for the insight.
  • bookman1906bookman1906 Member Posts: 5
    I know of 6 '00 S430 available between New England & Maryland. Including a few S500 with various trims.

    A dlr. I am trying coax has a '01 s500 sport with ALL options. Not available. Or so he said.
  • kelfkelf Member Posts: 83
    Would you please email me on the date of this falls auto show and / or site sor all the major world auto shows. Kelfg@aol.com
  • bob711bob711 Member Posts: 3
    Re: S500
    Is the Distronic option worthwhile? Also, does the Sport Package S500 ride harsher than the regular version, or can you tweak the ride via the ABC suspension to get a luxury ride when you want it?
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    I'm currently undecided between three cars-LS 430,S430,and E320. A broad price range, but I have to feel value is there. LS is very enticing,but I can't stand the wood steering wheel-it just seems so tacky-and there it is-right in front of your eyes. S430- I have admired Mercedes since I've been a boy,but the navigation system(a $2000 option on Eclass) strikes me as an utter waste of money. E is very nice,but it lacks the emotional appeal of the other two. Also merely an opinion,but visually the S55 seems far too boy racer,side skirts and low profile tires especially.
  • is4b2rdis4b2rd Member Posts: 66
    It depends on what you are after. If you want "perceived" prestige, stick with Mercedes. If you want resale value, stick with Mercedes. I would go with the S430 for the comfort and it is at the beginning of it's design cycle. The E will be replaced within 2 years with totally new body, which will reflect the style of the new S-Class. Regarding navigation, wouldn't think of NOT having it. However, I like "toys". If you aren't into "toys", then it wouldn't interest you much. Regarding side-skirts, I think they are VERY tastefully done and like the look and I am very conservative. The only concern I'd have are the 18" wheels if you drive on bad roads.

    To BOB711
    I have ABC on my CL and it is pure magic. The car is pure luxury on either setting, THANKS to the ABC suspension and you notice the difference in cornering with ABC switched to sport. I wouldn't think of getting an S500 without ABC. Also, I think long-term maintenance and reliability will be with the ABC rather than the air-suspension. Cost will be same or more, but I think reliability will be better with ABC
  • mike2567mike2567 Member Posts: 15
    I use mine all the time. Even when you know where you're going, the map of your surrounding area is interesting, shows shortest routes, alternate routes, gas stations, your street name, compass direction etc. And when you're going somewhere new, then you really get your money's worth.
  • cvrinccvrinc Member Posts: 16
    I own a Mercedes 2000 S430 and I find the Comand Navigation very helpful and really easy to use once you learn it. Some have been critical of the system (Edmunds), but if you are computer literate it is no problem at all.

    I have 13,000 miles on the car and it have been fabulous. The voice activated phone is a great feature and I found the Bose Stereo with CD system to be very good. Not one rattle and the build quality is terrific.

    This generation S combines all the new technology and is a big improvement over the previous generation. The more you drive one, the better you like it. And I have been averaging over 21 mpg in combined ciy/highway.
  • neilj1neilj1 Member Posts: 2
    My new S-class just arrived at the dealer the other week, I have been driving it all around just for fun. The COMMAND System is everything MB said it was. I just enter in the addresses even if I know where it is, it is a really fun toy. In addition, it is very easy to learn, I had heard stories(on this board for example) and was scared, but I was pleasently suprised about its simplicity and how well it integrates all of the devices. I also sure love those new Climate seats, if anyone is thinking of getting one, get the one with the 4 place seating package, when I take people out to lunch, they love playing with the seats and the fans and all of the neat stuff. My wife has a 2000 BMW 740il and we both like the MB S600 a lot better.
  • neilj1neilj1 Member Posts: 2
    My new S-class just arrived at the dealer the other week, I have been driving it all around just for fun. The COMMAND System is everything MB said it was. I just enter in the addresses even if I know where it is, it is a really fun toy. In addition, it is very easy to learn, I had heard stories(on this board for example) and was scared, but I was pleasently suprised about its simplicity and how well it integrates all of the devices. I also sure love those new Climate seats, if anyone is thinking of getting one, get the one with the 4 place seating package, when I take people out to lunch, they love playing with the seats and the fans and all of the neat stuff. My wife has a 2000 BMW 740il and we both like the MB S600 a lot better.
  • ken524ken524 Member Posts: 1
    Where is the best deal on the 740 series 2001?
    I live in NJ but am willing to travel to get the best price.
    Any sense in waiting until later on this year, closer to the newer redesigned 740 model?
    Thanks,
    Ken
  • joe_jensenjoe_jensen Member Posts: 27
    In Phoenix, the 740 seems to be selling well, took the dealer 4 weeks to find what I wanted. I got $1500 off list. Brect BMW in San Diego was willing to do $2500 off...joe
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    The original owners take a bath on these cars. If you can justify it to yourself a '98 740 can be had for about $35k. Pick one up off lease with the BMW certified warranty. I just bought a '98 750iL with the 18" wheels and 19k miles. It has the 100k mile coverage and cost me less than the new 740 you are considering.
  • sysadbsysadb Member Posts: 83
    I did the same as bwh and bought a 98 740i in August with 13k miles that had only been in service 2 years, leaving a lot of warranty. In my book the previous owner spent a staggering amount of money in depreciation for having the car only 2 years and accruing 13k miles.
    But, this is true for all luxury cars. If you enjoy the experience of owning a new car then the value can't be measured in dollars only. Enjoy,

    DB
  • is4b2rdis4b2rd Member Posts: 66
    I am constantly seeing posts from folks saying they are getting around $1,500 off their 740's. Are the cars that much more popular than they were in 1998? I bought my 1998 for $1,000 over invoice and it wasn't a car on their lot, they had to do a dealer trade. Just curious..
  • aura_xtreamaura_xtream Member Posts: 4
    My freind works at BMW dealer, and he told me that the BMW 7 series have a lot of problems and they are not worth buying, he said that too many people have come to the dealer because of the car's problem with the failure of the engine on the 7 series, I never knew about it til I heard him saying it. I thought that all BMWs were built superb and 7 series is indeed good and sporty looking performance sedan... anyone heard of such engine problem on the 7 series ??..
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    The early V8 BMWs had a problem. Our US gasoline was eating away at the coating on the cylinder walls. In '96 the problem was solved in regular production. So '93-95 V8 cars are subject to problems. BMW extended the warranty on these cars and replaced many of the bad engine blocks for free. I sold a '95 740iL because of this problem, the rest of the car was supurb. We recently replaced it with a '98 750iL. The 7 series is a wonderful line of cars, my advice is to buy '96 and newer though.
  • joemanzjoemanz Member Posts: 3
    Have over 20,000 miles on a 2000 A8. Better than an S sedan or the BMW 7. My experience with S class was good but boring. My experience with 7 series was disasterous. When my lease is over it will be another A8. Good value and a lot of fun to drive. A real sport sedan.
  • 3pointstar3pointstar Member Posts: 45
    Hi everyone,

    I am considering buying a used 300SE or S320 from 92-94 with around 75-100K miles. Do any of you know what reliability has been with this base S-class sedan?
  • bwhbwh Member Posts: 76
    Regardless of the engine these years, specifically 92-93, had a few problems. There is some problem with the front suspension that causes a shudder. Fixed in '94 I think.
  • is4b2rdis4b2rd Member Posts: 66
    I had a new 1999 S420 and at around 60mph there was still a slight shudder in the steering wheel. I was amazed that MB was never able to fully resolve that issue. That aside, and on the older models the problems with hydraulics for door and trunk assists, the car is an absolute DREAM. I still admire the car when I see it, even though I sold my S420. In many ways, I wish I had kept it. I think if I had the S500 and all the options, I would have been more inclined to keep the car. As long as you keep in mind that the cars are expensive to maintain, you will LOVE the car.
  • rick201mrick201m Member Posts: 3
    Hi,

    I am considering purchasing a 96, 97 or 98 740il or 750il. What are the maintenance on these vehicles and which, if any, would you recommend over the other. I drove the 750il and was in love immediately. But, very expensive and certainly don't want to have nagging, expensive service bills to take away from the joy of owning such a vehicle. Your opinions are appreciated!! Thanks, Rick
  • ludacrisludacris Member Posts: 185
    you guys want a car thats luxurious, fun to drive, and says you have arrived you say? buy a 1991 Buick Century! what other car is there with such prestige and elegance!? lol
  • akinderakinder Member Posts: 6
    Sorry if this comes up twice, I hit a button and I think it posted. I'm in shock and am trying to understand why the Lexus would be picked over an S430/500, or the wonderful 7-Series. Even if the interior is luxurious, the exterior styling is so passive that is hard to even take the car seriously in the first place. This is just my opinion, I would enjoy seeing other comments because I am biased towards Mercedes-Benz.
    Andrew
  • rmcvayrmcvay Member Posts: 1
    My BMW is currently stuck in the shop with engine problems. I would like to know more about these "engines problems" that I keep hearing about from independent mechanics and on this board.
    Scenario:
    One day I crank up my car and it starts idling rough, then an unusual amount of exhaust starts (which smelled like gasoline). I tried to drive it to a shop, but before I could get five blocks there was a trail of smoke, and the interior of the car started filling up too. I had one shop say it was a fuel injector, only to replace it to no avail. They then said it was a control unit, which only a Dealer could repair. Now the Dealer is sitting on the car (for a week now). I have talked around and heard different stories about the "engine problems". I need advice, and fast. Any help is greatly appreciated.
  • ludacrisludacris Member Posts: 185
    the lexus is better or even with those cars in nearly everyway, its refined, has lots of "gadgets", high quality/comfortable interior and fairly good performance with lexus' quality/reliablity reputation. all this for 10s of thousands of dollars less than a european super sedan. the styling may look to bland to some but i find it elegant and clean.
  • ajvdhajvdh Member Posts: 223
    You may be suffering from the infamous M60 Nikasil block problem. Read the following web page. You may also want to print it out and bring it to your mechanic:

    http://www.koalamotorsport.com/v8shortblock.htm

    Note that starting in 96 BMW switched to Alusil for the V8s. All V12s are Alusil.
  • xkgbxkgb Member Posts: 1
    Someone here mentioned something about having bought a 7 series for a $ 1000 above invoice. This deal is conceivably fair given the fact that some luxury models are sold at or above the sticker. However, we all should think that dealer is entitled to profit. How much do you think is a fair ? Shall we say 10-12 % of the invoice? If you think so contact me at vovkus@pacbell.net - I am in southern CA
  • steverisitysteverisity Member Posts: 39
    My brother always gets a 3 year old BMW 7 series with less than 36k miles (still under warranty), and I can't believe how much the car depreciates. I think he bought his last one for $25k?! I figure the initial owner spent $10k per year for this car - that's ugly.

    I prefer the Audi A8, but from what I've seen in the paper; they don't depreciate nearly as much.

    Does this say something about the quality of the car? or just availability?
  • tbudleytbudley Member Posts: 1
    I have a client that is selling his 94 to get a newer one. It has 92K miles. Does anyone here think this would be a bad purchase at the wholesale price? He hasn't has any problems with thus far but all the engine talk has made me a little nervous. Thank you.
  • ejerodejerod Member Posts: 86
    I'm the owner of both a 99Lexus GS300 and a 2001 Mercedes Benz S500 with the AMG sports package. I can attest that Lexus does indeed make wonderful automobiles but I chose the MB over the Lexus LS430 for various reasons other than the fact that I find the new LS430 body style to be a cross between the Toyota Avalon and the old model S class. For the life of me I don't know why Lexus didn't stick with blazing their own trail as they did with the GS which I love and the new SC430 ( which I may purchase ) Both these cars are gorgeous and you don't have to see the of the car to tell what they are. Mercedes has improved the build quality, the ride, the cost of ownership and everything else because of Lexus coming on the scene . So has BMW and the other traditional luxury car leaders. So we can all thank Lexus for that if nothing else. I bought the MB simply because I knew that I , like a few of my friends who bought the Lexus , would have been kicking myself in the rear end for not buying what I really wanted. I compromised before with my wife's car. I bought her the GS300 instead of the GS 400 with the navigation system. "Who needs all that ? " I said. This time around I just dug deeper into my piggy bank and bought what I really wanted, no compromise, no apologies, no regrets. It's like someone once said, "One never regrets buying the best there is" No truer statement has ever been said...I know that there are those that regret spending the extra money for the Benz, I'm not one of them. I'm always getting stopped in a parking lot, or having someone pull up next to me at a stop light and ask me to roll down the window so they can ask me something. I'm happily married but women of all ages go ape when they see this car. The LS430 never garnered that type reaction, but I have had some LS430 owners look at my car with the look of "nice car" written all over their faces. Both are wonderful cars, but in my book, and wallet, this year anyway Mercedes Benz wins hands down.
  • MarkieMarkie Member Posts: 1
    Whats best for MB S500?
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