High End Luxury Cars

oac · March 2005

In post #8157, ljflx said this:

"The business argument - I made a statement that a high percentage of those buying lux cars are business savy people who can't miss headline events about MB having quality and financial problems. I then say it is logical that they will keep that in mind when buying or leasing anew because filing away things like that in their mind is how they got where they are..."

In post #8158, Merc1 replied thusly:

"I actually looked through the Price Paid and Buyers Experience boards here for every Mercedes model and guess what, not a single post anywhere about such irrelevant things about earnings and the like..."

Simply classic ! Talk about two posts in opposite direction....

ljflx · March 2005

Thanks OAC - merc just doesn't get it. He thinks these buyers are nothing but car geeks. Try and find a lux car buyer who doesn't know MB has hit some hard times and that it gives them pause for thought.

Lexus aces everything as usual in the April CR issue.You'll have to really stretch to find half red circles in anything - reliability, satisfaction, depeciation etc. No improvement at all from MB in reliability even on the 2004 cars. Owner satisfaction is another big win for Lexus. In general all German car reliability scores show that they are sliding further and further south.

oac · March 2005

Seen recent MB sales lately ?

Mercedes-Benz USA
Sales -- February 2005

Feb Feb Mth YTD YTD Yearly
Model '05 '04 % 2005 2004 %

C-class 4,020 5,819 -30.9% 7,568 10,582 -28.5%

E-class 2,596 3,965 -34.5% 5,321 7,831 -32.1%

S-class 1,028 1,354 -24.1% 2,092 2,807 -25.5%

CL-class 127 218 -41.7% 262 393 -33.3%

SL-class 835 1,232 -32.2% 1,512 2,454 -38.4%

CLK-class 1,459 1,488 -1.9% 2,684 2,896 -7.3%

SLK-class 1,062 305 248.2% 1,943 578 236.2%

CLS-class 1,358 n/a n/a 2,136 n/a n/a

M-class 944 1,666 -43.3% 1,924 3,525 -45.4%

G-class 84 127 -33.9% 172 277 -37.9%

TOTAL 13,513 16,174 -16.5% 25,614 31,343 -18.3%

ljflx · March 2005

Wow - I may have been too generous with the 3 years I gave them. This is gonna be a real bad year for MB and DCX. But the reliability was always a minor issue according to so many on this board, wasn't it? The so called passionate buyer will always put up with it. Maybe BMW's buyer, though I know that is somewhat of an overblown statement, but certaimly not MB's. I should go find posts I made 3 years ago saying this was inevitable. So is their fall from top lux brand in perception before too much longer. Of course you realize this will be translated to you and I saying they are going out of business which of curse we are not.

oac · March 2005

Model Feb Feb Change
2005 2004 %

ES 330 4,583 5,546 -17.4
LS 430 2,028 2,357 -14.0
SC 430 542 619 -12.4
GS 300 1,602 541 196.1
GS 430 345 107 222.4
IS 300 428 705 -39.3
LX 470 584 669 -12.7
GX 470 2,482 2,437 1.8
RX 330 7,131 7,564 -5.7

TOTAL 19,725 20,545 -4.0

The maligned 2006 GS twins are clearly doing well right out of the gate. But will they sustain the momentum ?

Source: CL

oac · March 2005

Just to keep the numbers honest...

Model Feb Feb Change
2005 2004 %

3-series 7,181 7,669 -6.3
5-series 3,794 7,072 -46.3
7-series 1,127 1,310 -13.9

source: CL

oac · March 2005

And finally....

Model Feb Feb %change
2005 2004
A4 2,760 2,273 21.4
A6 1,264 789 60.2
A8/S8 338 424 -20.3

source: CL

flyfisher1 · March 2005

Wrong on safety my friend. The A8 just was rated as one of the safest cars Ever tested. Regarding performance - zero to 60 times - are you kidding me? Like we are going to race our luxury cars zero to 60? Ridiculous. Just look at comparisons and you will find that the A8 comes out on top of most of them. An example - Edmonds.com 2 years running. Also Automobile Magazine.

flyfisher1 · March 2005

So much for "all the people you know". This sounds like so much "my dad is tougher than your dad".

merc1 · March 2005

Its amazing the cycles we have here. Every year about this time we have the same harping about MB sales, yet each and every year-end its the same thing...a MB sales increase. Best example of meaningless hype if there ever was one.

Yet all the while the doom and gloom theorist continue with meaningless, baseless predictions.

Now we add to list of hysteria about buyers having pause over buying an MB because of MB's financial status, yet this is but a one person theory that has yet to be proven by anything other than the same old tired sales harping that we get on this board every year, usually in the first three months. Mercedes sales drop = crisis, Lexus sales drop = "The maligned 2006 GS twins are clearly doing well right out of the gate."

This is the same group so savvy about marketing trends and buyers habits yet doesn't realize that Jan-March are typically slow months for luxury car brands. Nearly every lux brand is down in sales for Jan and Feb, yet the only problem is with Mercedes who's buyers bought over 27K units in Dec, yet from Dec 31st to Feb 28th all of a sudden realized that shape that Mercedes' corporate ship is in and decided not to buy just that fast. This is the most ridiculous insinuation yet. Complete nonesense. All of a sudden for 2005 buyers have shifted and started reading whatever about MB so they quit buying in the span of two months.

M

merc1 · March 2005

The thing in your reply that excited OAC is that you're trying to say that I said that the quality and financial well being of a company doesn't make any difference to buyers.

Stop. I said that the financial well being (basically all the Toyota profit stuff) of a company doesn't make a difference to most buyers. I have clearly said over and over that quality surveys and the like do keep buyers away from any brand that doesn't do well on them, including Mercedes. You're trying to tie your off-base theory about buyers caring about profits and corporate matters to them caring about reliability reports. The ultimate spin from you. They aren't the same thing.

If you aren't going to quote me correctly then please don't bother because that isn't what I said.

One minute buyers are clueless in buying a Mercedes because they are blinded by prestige and styling, yet in another they are way to smart to be fooled. Which is it?

M

merc1 · March 2005

It never fails. Every year around this time we get the sales stuff from you and just like in the first quarter of 2004 sales were down for MB and BMW (last year), but they rebounded only to give MB and BMW increases for the year. You'll be proven wrong again at the close of 2005.

What is the point? Lexus had a drop in every model except their new GS and ditto for Mercedes except for their new CLS and SLK. They're in the same sales boat yet you and Ljlfx are predicting the worse for MB, yet Lexus had the same sales drop. Do you see why this obvious hype wasn't taken seriously last year and won't be for this year? The second (incorrect) straight year of this I might add.

How is what I said to Ljlfx in the "opposite direction". He implied something and no buyers on any board anywhere here even hinted at caring about what he says they should care about, the financial status and earning of a company. I never said that buyers didn't care about quality and reliability reports.

M

michael_mattox · March 2005

Your point is well taken...The A8 is far too slow to race in this group...even with a 46hp advantage.

I would love to the safety figures you are referring to. Are you saying there is A direct comparison between A8 and LS430 in Edmonds? and that Comparison includes safety tests?

tiag_m5 · March 2005

Wow, that E-bay seller site that you provided is so professional and no doubt 100% indicative of Mercedes reliability issues. (Sarcasm).

I didn't see Lexus parts on the list.

No joke? Maybe that's because this is a European site and Lexus really isn't a brand in Europe. However, on that same site I found a Toyota recall for the power steering pump on the Toyota Avensis... Ouch that can't be very safe.

Looks like Toyota had to recall 150,000 Camry's because of faulty side airbags: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/toyota_camry.html

And this site shows other safety related problems arising in bullet proof Toyota/Lexus cars: http://www.geinsurancesolutions.com/erccorporate/resources/pc/pro- - - - - duct_recalls/

Mostly just minor things like 400,000 Camry's being recalled because of "defective brakes" and 34,000 Seinna being recalled that "Do not comply with safety standards." What about "axel bolts may losen," and various Lexi with "Defective brake lights"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that MB or others haven't had issues, but you make it sound like Toyota/Lexus is invincible. The ponit is, saying that MB safety features will fail when you need them is absurd.

* I can't get the geinsurancesolutions site to post correctly, so you will have to take out the hyphens between "pro-" and "-duct" with no space for the link to work.

merc1 · March 2005

I wouldn't bother debating that. It was just too disingenuous to begin with for them to suggest that Lexus doesn't ever have a part fail by them saying that they couldn't find any re-manufactured Lexus parts on that website.

M

michael_mattox · March 2005

Ok I just read the Edmonds compairson and there have been NO safety tests done on the A8

It is difficult how you can say the A8 is safer using the Edmonds data?

michael_mattox · March 2005

Merc.

Those of us who own the LS..don't find it hard to believe that so few parts fail that re-manufactured lexus parts are just not something that would have a decent sales volume.

And it is hard to debate such a stark example of Lexus quality....my heart goes out to you there.

oac · March 2005

"You'll be proven wrong again at the close of 2005."

"....you and Ljlfx are predicting the worse for MB..."

I made no predictions, so no need to be proved wrong. And you should note that I provided the same reports for all the luxury brands *most* discussed around here (MB, Lexus, Audi, BMW).... Fair is fair... You and anyone else can read whatever you like into these numbers. Feel free to defend whatever, I am certainly not defending Lexus or BMW or Audi.... I have no stock in any of these auto companies, so no need to play defense.

tiag_m5 · March 2005

Because they are not the same cars...What Lexus is the Rav 4...Or the Chevy that you showed...Even the Camery which shares a platform with ES only shares 25% of the ES total content...Further all the Models shown were old and out of date most from the 90S.

But you see, all of those cars were Toyotas. Toyota and Lexus are the same company, so you shouldn't expect "Lexus" to be held to a higher standard of safety than the rest of the Toyota line. Yes most of those are older models, but think of it this way: If it took Toyota/Lexus this long to get their frontal crash tests in order (which they prepare for in advance), how can you expect them to perform in real world crashes where they aren't held accountable through testing?

Are you saying that A8 and Mercedes S have better performance..When you have already acknowledge that Lexus LS has better Acceleration...it has better 0-60 times then Audi...

Sorry but 0-60 times aren't the only measure of performance. I would rather have a car that handles and stops well (S) than an unbalanced whale that screeches its way around the track (LS). And trust me, if the S430 loses to the LS430 in 0-60 times, you can be sure that an S500/S55/S600 will walk all over it in this regard. I don't know much about the Audi A8 so I can't vouch for it, but my instinct tells me that it probably outperforms the LS in most, if not all, quantitative and qualitative areas of performance.

Here are a few of my favorite quotes concerning the chart topping performance of the poised and atheltic LS430: skidpad grip was weakest of all, 0.73 g; Tires eager to squealnever very involving on the back roads."

In contrast, the S class and others were universally lauded: Mercedes was endowed with road grip exceeded only by that of the BMW; Three cars in the group (Mercedes, BMW, Audi) stand above the others, having braking distances of 169 feet or better, and skidpad adhesion above 0.82 g; Benz gave a first-rate account of itself as it slipped through the lane-change test at 57.4 mph... 4.3 better than the slow-guy Lexus.

Safety...We have had that discussion and determined neither car has an edge..even though Mercedes invented Air Bags....40 years ago.

Actually, the S class does have an edge for safety. Unlike corner cutting Lexus, Mercedes includes rear side airbags as a standard feature in the S as well as across the model line. Also, the S class has pre-safe as standard equipment while Lexus makes you pay for their pre-collision system. And regarding the entire model line, Mercedes has a safety advantage on every car (Standard belt ETDs, standard belt load limiters, standard rear side airbags, standard rollover protection, etc). Lexus likes to skimp and trim on safety as can be seen throughout its model range, but I think this is perhaps most evident with the SC430... A $65k convertible that will literally grind your head off if it flips. The SL on the other-hand, has had the handy pop-up roll bar since 1989, as does the current CLK. Another interesting tidbit is that the side airbags on the SL and CLK (front and rear) are large enough to protect the head and the torso, whereas the side airbags on the SC430 (front only) protect just the torso... Looks like Lexus needs to do some more R&D with all that money they're making. I won't even get into the fact that Lexus is consistently 2-4 years behind the curve when it comes to adopting the new safety technology pioneered by other companies.

Just add up what we know about MB and Lexus and the answer is clear... or at least it should be if you have an open mind. Apparently you would rather ride in a car built by Lexus, the company slow to adopt safety features, the company with fewer standard/optional safety items, the company with a history of imitation and non-innovation. I would much rather ride in a car built by Mercedes, the company always on the cutting edge of safety, the company with the most available safety features , and the company with an unrivaled reputation for safety innovation.

To each his own. ?

merc1 · March 2005

Ok fair enough, and no this year you didn't make a prediction so I take that part back, but you did seem to jump in with sales after Ljlfx made his usual prediction about Mercedes falling from this and falling from that.

M

merc1 · March 2005

What comparo on Edmunds are you guys talking about???

M

hpowders · March 2005

No wonder I don't see any BMW 5's on the road!

footie · March 2005

Let's get it right.

Mercedes didn't invent airbags, nor were they the first to sell them on a vehicle here in the U.S. See my earlier post. The argument is between GM Labs and Allen Breed, not Mercedes.

Current safety technology is being led by suppliers like autoliv.

Here's what they say about themselves:

"Autoliv - Driven for life

Our company is a worldwide leader in automotive safety, a pioneer in both seat belts and airbags, and a technology leader with the widest product offering for automotive safety. All the leading automobile manufacturers in the world are our customers. We service them from 80 subsidiaries and joint ventures in 30 countries. We test their cars and products at 20 crash test tracks in nine countries, and we have 40,000 people globally to support them.

We are the inventors of the side-impact airbag for chest protection, the Inflatable Curtain (IC) for head protection in side impacts and the Anti-Whiplash Seat (AWS), just to mention a few of our latest contributions to automotive safety. Now we continue to drive automotive safety by developing Roll-over Protection Systems, Night Vision Systems and Pedestrian Protection Systems."

ljflx · March 2005

merc1 - I'll say it for the last time because you just don't get it. The statement was that the negative headlines - financial, quality, reliability etc etc are inescapable to any business savy person and many lux car buyers are exactly that. When those people read about the quality problems and then the financial problems that are following it they just file it away in their head. That is part of the mantra you need to be a good business person. Now you decide if they choose to forget it completely and go against every good business instinct they have or not - before committing to a large purchase or lease. In your opinion it never even enters their mind and they buy blindly. In mine they pause to give it consideration. It's a subjective argument and you won't find answers on a prices paid board. You'll find them by following the future results. Right now they look bad, worse than a year that was the worst in decades. That is all I am saying about this as it is getting all blown out of proportion.

BMW - I think the core buyer is holding on to the old 5 probably because of styling and thinking there is nothing to gain, and maybe plenty to lose, with the new car.

sv7887 · March 2005

tiag_m5
Are you some propaganda minister somewhere? Where do I begin with this one..Of course Lexus cars are built to a higher standard. Their unit cost is higher to begin with. There is a difference between Lexus and Toyota JDP rankings. It's like saying MB and Chrysler should have the same build quality. No doubt MB is much better. Most of their woes are electronics related and certainly not mechanical.

"Unbalanced Whale?" This is utter nonsense. They even admitted the car wasn't equipped with the 18" tires and Euro Sport Suspension and admitted it was not a fair test. You're taking everything out of context.

Most every comparo I read says the car was competent but not very exciting. We've already had someone post the braking distance and the LS won by a foot. (hardly a win). And what exactly are the significance of skipad numbers? I take it we all race our cars somewhere on a track..Get real. Even the 0-60 numbers are pointless. Most of us just drive around town or to work with these cars. What's your point about a S500/600/55? It's not even a fair comparo to begin with. I would hope a 5.0L V8 or V-12 would run faster. You can only compare the S430 to the LS and not the S500.

For 13K less, the LS430 has more standard features than the S430. I shopped for both and I know what I'm talking about. They wanted 73K for a S430 4 Matic with Nav and a few other things. My 62K LS430 has way more features than the S430, and there is not a huge difference in performance. The LS is more spirited and comfortable, whilst the S is a bit harsher in ride but better at high speeds.

The frame construction is probably the biggest factor in the equation here. Electronics as you've mentioned aren't going to make a huge difference. I've mentioned the Airbus vs Boeing Argument. And you've failed to realize no sane CEO of any airline would fly a plane that was not as safe as a competitor. No competent industry insider would dare imply an Airbus is unsafe since it has fewer safety features than a 747.

It's like putting PreSafe in a Kia..You think all those electronics are going help if the Frame isn't built well? I'm sure MB has a great frame construction, but so does Lexus. I've taken a real world crash in my LS400 and it barely moved despite being hit at 35MPH from the side. Granted there was 7K worth of damage to it, but it kept everyone in the car safe.

SV

vcheng · March 2005

The frame design of the LS430 is taught as an example to students in mechanical engineering in several universities here in the US as the epitomy of current design philosophy. The strength and the weight aspects are specially emphasized, as well as the placing of the spot welds and internal gussetry.

I do not know about Japanese or German universities.

ljflx · March 2005

Hmmm - then based on the theories advanced on this board every Toyota is just as good and a benckmark to be studied.

ctsang · March 2005

Even if just ONE customer decides not to buy MB, that's ONE less customer for MB and ONE more customer for its competitor.
Besides, this is not about my dad or your dad. Watch your language now.

ctsang · March 2005

They do study Toyota's quality control as a benchmark in engineering schools.

vcheng · March 2005

I just thought that tidbit would be interesting.

I am sure Toyota makes many many mediocre cars as well. It is just that the design resources put into their Celsior/LS430 chassis are quite remarkable.

I've had all types of cars and enjoyed them all.

I have had a rear left wheel bearing replaced on an LS430 (a paragon of relaibility?) at 15 k miles. So far on my VW Phaeton, I have had a blown wiper motor fuse, and nothing else. But it is still too early to pronounce a verdict.

I drove a 2004 S500 recently. Nice car, but at a speed (ahem) well above the speed limit, the driver's side window popped out of its seal. Not exactly quality build it seems.

I figure no car is going to be perfect and for each one of us buying in this class of car, personal preferences (and prejudices) play a role.

syswei · March 2005

Tiag, the selectiveness of your quoting of the C&D comparo is amazing, and very revealing. Any reasonable person wouldnt have even brought up the relative skidpad and braking data from that comparo, because the article itself noted that it was an apples to oranges comparison, with the S wearing 18-inch summers and the LS 17-inch all-seasons. The parts of the article that you selectively omitted:

This Mercedes was also endowed with road grip exceeded only by that of the BMW. Both were equipped with optional sport suspensions and special-purpose tires...What's the extra road grip worth? Three cars in the group stand above the others, having braking distances of 169 feet or better, and skidpad adhesion above 0.82 g. The grippy trioMercedes, BMW, Audiall wore summer tires. They went on to note that the LS was tested with 17-inch all-seasons, and said If you really want muscles, opt for the sport suspension with 18-inch summer tires.

As I posted before, if both cars are tested with 17-inch all-seasons, which is how CR tested, the performance metrics you seem to care most about are much closer. The LS actually edged out the S in braking performance when tested in a apples-to-apples way by CR.

michael_mattox · March 2005

Your Logic would make Chrysler and Mercedes the same company...Heck Chrysler is carrying Mercedes.

All the Technology in the World is valueless if it doesn't work properly ..As I recall someone has already posted a list of often purchased parts that could effect the safety of the car.

syswei · March 2005

Tiag, you wrote sorry but 0-60 times aren't the only measure of performance. Well, the existence of rear side door airbags or anti-rollover bars isnt the only measure of safety.

What you havent shown is how the absence of those safety features outweighs the less reliable brakes of the S. Last I checked, brakes are a safety item, no? CRs reliability data for the Ss brakes, 2000 to 2003 model year cars (-2=poor to +2=excellent) (sample size inadequate to generate ratings for other years):

-1 0 0 +1

For the LS in the same years:

+2 +1 +1 +2

Now maybe more reliable brakes are more important than missing safety features, and maybe theyre not. I cant prove it either way, and neither can you. So why dont you just admit that there is no conclusive objective evidence that the S is safer overall than the LS, and give the whole safety issue a rest?

michael_mattox · March 2005

Rear seat airbags are of little value the Curtins that protect your head and the seatbelts are the essentual safety features...So Called safety features with little more value then bragging effect is worth how much?

They once did have a great reputation for safety and innovation...If I were buying a 60s or 70s or even 80s car it would be a Mercedes..Times change many cars now have learned from Mercedes and even helped move many of Mercedes safety innovations into the 21st. Century, The result is many cars now rival Mercedes in the area of safety.

michael_mattox · March 2005

Tiag:

You constantly talk about cost cutting in the Lexus...That is true but far from the Negative you seem to want to project it to be..

The cost saving results partially from Lexus perfected heavy use of robots to build cars...the resulting percision is one of the primary reasons for the Lexus Reliability EDGE....

The realiability EDGE translates to not just lower built cost but also Much lower warrenty costs. (In 4 years my LS has not required any warrenty work at all...Just imagine the savings to Mercedes if their avg. customer could say the same thing)

That is why a Lexus costs less then a Mercedes or Audi and Why it still makes a huge corporate Profit compared to the barely head above water position that mercedes finds itself in.

lenscap · March 2005

oac's numbers were incorrect. BMW sold 3,794 5 series in 2/05 versus 3,780 in 2/04. (His 7,072 figure is actually the 2005 year-to-date number.)

hpowders · March 2005

Okay but I still don't see many re-designed 5's out there.

oac · March 2005

I went back to the source and checked the numbers once again. Lenscap is correct. My typo error in quoting YTD rather than the 02/2005 number.

Thx for the correction, lenscap...

ljflx · March 2005

Anyone see ejerod's posts on the S-class board? I haven't been over there in ages and stopped in to see if anyone had anything on the new S-class. What a pasting he gave MB. Also take note of some of the media quotes he notes. He's a business finance/investment guy if I remember right.

syswei · March 2005

a little tidbit from the WSJ Online:

Jurgen Schrempp...the chief executive of DaimlerChrysler AG...predicted in 1998...DaimlerChrysler would become "the most profitable automotive company in the world."

Well hopefully he'll be more correct when it comes to predicting better quality to come from MB.

ljflx · March 2005

That shows you he doesn't have a grip on reality. But he didn't say a timeframe. So he has the rest of time for it to happen and still be right.

pablo_l · March 2005

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_11/b3924003.htm

Subscription needed. Quite glowing about Audis prospects to position itself ahead of the pack. We will see...

oac · March 2005

ejerod, an MB owner recently had this to say about his MBs....

"....I have had 3 Benzes in the last 4 years. 2001 S500, 2002S 500, 2003 SL 500. I had enough lemons to make lemonade for the Pittsburgh Steelers for the next 50 years!!! My wife has had 2 lexus GS models that we have leased over the last 8 years. Not a single issue out of either of them. The one she has now rides like the day we bought it. MB ? Not ever again. At least not until they can build a car that I can drive with out fear of it falling apart. Lexus will be my car of choice from now on. Infinity will be a close second!..."

ejerod, "Mercedes-Benz S-Class" #1686, 23 Feb 2005 1:03 pm

Ouch !!! MBs as lemons ? And the GS not having any problems since birth ?? Now, where is tiag_m5's safe MB, when the car can't even be trusted to drive from point A to point B.

MB better get its quality issues straightened out ASAP, otherwise the fall will be steep. Now, that is a prediction, Merc1 !

flyfisher1 · March 2005

Stop it already Michael. Does anyone ever - ever - buy the Lexus LS for performance?

flyfisher1 · March 2005

Did you say FRAME design? I didn't know Lexus built pick-up trucks.

flyfisher1 · March 2005

Simple answer - it's a cheaper car.

oac · March 2005

Consumer Reports had the largest response to its latest annual auto reliability survey ever, allowing the nonprofit organization to compile reliability portraits on more than 810,000 vehicles, up from 675,000 vehicles in 2003 and 480,000 in 2002. This is the second year in a row that Consumer Reports surveyed subscribers to both its magazine and its web site, www.ConsumerReports.org, a total of more than 5 million consumers throughout the U.S. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2004 and covered 1997 to 2004 models.

And now... drum roll....

2005 New-Car Reliability:

1. Scion
2. Lexus
3. Toyota
4. Subaru
5. Honda
6. Acura
7. Mitsubishi
8. Infiniti
9. Hyundai
10. Suzuki
....

Bottom:

Mini
BMW
Lincoln
VW
Hummer
MB
Jaguar
Land Rover

source: www.ConsumerReports.org

michael_mattox · March 2005

A-8 owners who are tired of the dull ride will step up to the LS for performance.

michael_mattox · March 2005

Simple answer...It is a better and LESS EXPENSIVE car...

ljflx · March 2005

I said it before and I'll say it again - Gotta love you OAC. You know how to nail it.

I may take that GS out for a spin tomorrow. I've heard great things about it.

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