Audi A4 2004 and earlier

mmcbride1 · May 2001

The funny thing is that I think my insurance dropped more when I got married (I was 24) than it did when I turned 25. I guess they figger us married guys have a tighter leash around our necks than the others do...

lauk0dg · May 2001

Yeah actually I'm paying $130/month for full coverage with $250comp/$500coll and 1 speeding tix almost past 3 years, with minimal discount with renter's insurance. After my 25th b-day I should be paying about $95/month and I think I'll lower those deductible amounts to somewhere like $50/$250 by then. My agent told me if I get married, my discount will be comparable (and I think he said a little more than the 25 y/o discount) to something like $65/month. Of course that depends on which city/suburb you live in and being in Lisle (west suburb in Chicagoland) is good cuz there's not even one single attack incident last year I think, and traffic accidents are minimal here in Lisle.

An interesting note: I talked to my ins agent and he said, insurance is the last line of discrimination, quote "We discriminate against age, sex, driving records and the kind of car you drive." Nice.

Hey fdxboy, yeah make sure it's "lauk0dg" who took the last loaner.....I'm sure I'll use that name in my AoA file :>

MMMM.....a good excuse to get married.....Oh yeah, because I want cheaper insurance on my Audi :> Jussssst kidding :>

Billy

bast2 · May 2001

Geeeeeeez...didn't realize I was basically the "old" guy in the room! As for insurance, I'm weeks away from the big 3-0. I've got a combined Home/highway policy. The car we're replacing is a '92 Jeep Cherokee....with the new A4 our insurance only went up $80 a year. If I break out the cost of the A4 on a monthly basis, it's right around $50/mo., but again, I'm a little older (NOT MUCH!!) and married. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

As for sport suspension, I'll tell you what, considering what we were driving, the A4 feels like heaven as currently set up. Without Sport Suspension. I appreciate the smooth ride for once. Yup, a little cushy on the corners, but pretty decent in its own right.

And Billy....right now I'm "stuck" with a '98 Dodge Dakota SLT. As trucks go, love it. It's taken me to hell and back with a smile on it's face.

JB

schwitzer1 · May 2001

What am I, ancient? I'll be 31 in July!

lauk0dg · May 2001

OK OK I must be flamed RIGHT NOW.....remember to buy me a present when my insurance drops in August :>

I am actually surprised I'm the youngest (so far) here.....cuz I saw a lot of guys younger than me at local Audi gatherings.....maybe they are pros and prefer to talk at AW.....

So JB, I can see that you guys like 4WD or AWD vehicles huh? I'm sure your gas bill will come down quite a bit with the A4 than the Cherokee.....mmmm maybe not, cuz you need Premium for the A4 and maybe can't keep the right foot light enough :>

Arrrghhhh IL SOS (Secretary of State) still hasn't got back to me about personalized plate selections.....I need something better than a bunch of numbers and a letter :<

Billy

obizyana · May 2001

Greetings, all. We have narrowed our car search down to the last few, and the A4 1.8T with Quattro is in the final three. We have been quoted a price of roughly $27,500 for the A4 1.8T with Quattro, automatic transmission, Electronic Stability Control, metallic paint, and the Celebration Package, plus taxes, tags, and any processing fee (Washington, D.C/Northern Virginia area). Any thoughts or comments on this pricing? Any insights? Thanks.

bast2 · May 2001

Schwitzer, ya old fart! 31...sheesh, don't you think it's time for a Cadillac?? LOL

Billy: I just filled up last night for the first time. I think I ended up with about 360 miles on the first tank. The trip 'puter was telling me I was averaging about 25.6 mpg. if I'm not mistaken. Granted, mostly highway miles, but still a far cry from the 16-17 mpg I was getting on the Jeep. And, ya I'm going with the premium.... it was about $27 to fill up the tank.

As for heavy-footed action, I've held myself back a bit, but damn, sometimes it has a mind of its own! Once my wife is done teaching for the year I'll probably start driving it to work more often...that could get interesting. She may just inherit the truck before the next school year begins! (somehow I don't see that happening.)

JB

bast2 · May 2001

Obi: Doesn't sound like the worst deal in the world, actually. Sounds pretty similar to mine, but I don't have ESP, but do have the cold weather package. Truthfully, you'd be getting a bit better deal than I got. So where are you in the bargaining process? Is that their starting offer or have you worked them down to that number?

Whatever, i'm quickly learning it's well worth it!

JB

lauk0dg · May 2001

Obizyana, what's that $27.5k correspond to % over invoice?? If it's around 3%, you got yourself a good deal. Mine was $26.7k with Quattro, metallic paint, Bose, Cold Weather and Celebration, and that's 2.6% over invoice 3 months ago.

JB, about that mileage, yeah I got something like that on the first tank. Eventually I found myself having fun trying to rack up a ridiculous 600 miles on the range display as I was coasting 55mph slightly downhill. Nah that'll go away in an instant as you touch that accelerator. It's even more dramatic when you put it in neutral at that speed.....it'll show a 200mpg figure. Oh yeah, 16 gallons in the tank, oh geez I can do roundtrip Chicago-West Coast in half a tank, that is, if the Rockies ain't there and I'm at 20,000ft going downhill until I see the Pacific Ocean. And no traffic.

Hey JB, it's not that far off from the end of the teaching year right? Just try to make the wife believe that the Durango is more fun.....yeah right.

Billy

wbb1643 · May 2001

Couple questions:
Trying to get a A4 1.8T Celebration and Sport package with Blue metallic paint. Invoice $23,911

Just got off the phone with a dealer and he said a $1,000 over invoice. Will have to do a search as the A4 I want is no where in Atlanta. Does this seem reasonable?

He also mentioned a $550 internal fee and a $150 advertising fee I would get hit with? Any thoughts on if this is standard or negotiable?

total over invoice is $1,700 or 7.1%, thoughts?

lauk0dg · May 2001

Oh no, don't pay that internal fee or whatever fees that they imposed, unless it's title plates and registration. Especially the advertising fees, it should be included in the price that you pay.

AND 7.1% (if you include those fees) is WAYYYYY too high. Scirocco can tell you the highest price so far is inn Seattle is like 5% over invoice (Scirocco, pls confirm that). I'd say, don't pay all those extra fees, and get them to around $700 over invoice.

Good hunting!!

Billy

mmcbride1 · May 2001

Depending on where you are, the advertising fee may be legit. Also, at least here, you pay a fee to the dealer. Mine was $300.

mav7696 · May 2001

Obi sounds like you are getting a pretty good deal! I also live in Northern VA and will be buying an Audi when the 2002's come out. Do you mind telling me what dealer you are bargaining with? Or does anybody else had any good experiences with dealers in the DC area? Thanks much for your help!

lauk0dg · May 2001

I dunno, but I would think that's part of the business cost and we shouldn't help the dealer out with advertising.....so if he pays $3000 for advertising, we are supposed to pay that?? OK I understand like if you shop at Wal-Mart, maybe 0.001% of what you pay for is the advertising fee, and is included in the price, but adding $300 to the cost of the car to me is ridiculous. They got to advertise the cars so car buyers will go to their dealership and check them out.....so in return to thank the consumer, they charge them the advertising fees? Totally nonsense.

Billy

fdxboy · May 2001

For what its worth...Audi does not have a dealer holdback...so when you are getting a car at 3-4% over invoice...you really are getting 3-4% over invoice.

lauk0dg · May 2001

but I think the big bucks lies in the service dept.....if they can get you to do all the service at the same dealership they can earn all their $$ thru there.....which brings up the point that they should offer loaners to attract people to go to their service dept and service their vehicle :>

I still think the advertising fee is a normal business charge that shouldn't be paid by us IN ADDITION to the agreed selling price of the car.

Billy

schwitzer1 · May 2001

I love my car. I payed a lot of money (I'm a teacher, so maybe I'll say "a lot of money for ME") for a car that I really enjoy. I would have payed a lot more money for this car. Even being willing to shell out the coin, I'm glad that it's priced like it is, and I didn't whine when I signed my name. $200 over the life of a 60 month note is less than $5 per payment. So...I miss out on one valu-meal at Mickey-D's each month? In exchange for that sacrifice I get to drive a dream-car that turns heads?

Did I mention that I love my car?

scirocco22 · June 2001

Billy-- gotta run again but just a quick post relating to the advertising fee. The way it was explained to me is that it's the charge that the manufacturer (AoA) charges the dealership for their proportionate amount of Audi's advertising expenses, like TV ads and such. It's usually somewhere around $225 per car sold. Some dealerships just figure it in the amount they're willing to sell the car above the invoice price. If this is the case, you'll never know that you're being charged for it because the dealer is essentially "eating" the fee. Some will actually charge you the fee separately after all negotiations have taken place. So it's important to ask during negotiations which method they are using because it is obviously a negotiable item. But the bottom line is that for each car sold, Audi (the manufacturer) is charging it's dealerships the fee so it's up the indivdual dealership as to how they are passing on that cost to you the buyer so no matter what, the buyer is paying the fee in some form or another. If I'm wrong or somebody can explain this in clearer terms than I just did, please let us know.

lauk0dg · June 2001

My dealership never mentioned anything about me shouldering their advertising fee. I actually feel fortunate cuz I never knew this fee until you guys brought it up. I understand they might already figure in the advertising fee one way or the other, but I find it a malpractice if they don't mention anything about it during the bargaining process, and after the whole thing's settled, "oh by the way you need to write $250 extra for the car cuz that's the advertising fee"......c'mon, they can do better than that. If the claim for collecting extra advertising fee is legit, they need to mention it during the bargaining process, not after it.

Hey Louis.....I understand the advertising fee costs about the cost of a Mickey D meal every month, but if you divide everything you pay over the course of your life, everything's not expensive.....It's just not reasonable to pay that advertising fee, whoever is charging us (AoA or the dealership, doesn't matter)......and if it's AoA that's screwing us for that, they got to change that practice.....when I bought my Accord there's nothing like that mentioned after the bargaining process and I was happy about the price they offered.....and trust me, I'm an engineer and I think this is an expensive investment so I made damn sure this is what I want.....and this IS what I want :>

4,100 problem-free miles (touch wood) and keep add'n :>

Billy

mmcbride1 · June 2001

Relax. It's only a few hundred dollars, spread out over several years. Whether it's hidden in the price they charge you or on a different line, you're paying for it one way or another.

bast2 · June 2001

Guess I have to agree with mmcbride to a certain degree on this one. The ad cost is going to get burried in there somewhere. Every dealer I approached I specifically asked what the ad cost was, or at least how it was figured in. In every case around here I was told the ad cost is absorbed into the final price of the car. You wouldn't see it listed on the final paperwork, which was true. However, I specifically remember it WAS listed on the final paperwork when I bought my truck 3 years ago.

Funny, I'm in the ad biz, but have never run into this type of situation. In other product markets retailers are able to accrue co-op dollars to spend on advertising for the given manufacturer's products. If store "A" buys $10,000 of Company "B's" product, store A accrues, say 3% credit to be spent on local advertising. The more inventory they buy, the more company B gives them ad dollars to be spent locally. I've never seen a local retailer tagged for ad costs which would ultimately be spent on a national level, only to have the local retailer tag the consumer in the end. It's weird though, every industry can be different.

JB

mmcbride1 · June 2001

But even with retail products, the customer always pays for it in the end. So each box of Fruit Loops costs the retailer $.03 more to buy from Kellogg's because they had to pay the guy who created Toucan Sam, then that difference would be tacked on to the retail price, and the consumer is none the wiser.

In the end, it's all the same, it's just a matter of how it's presented to the consumer in the end. Personally, I'd rather see AoA bury it in the price of the car so it doesn't stick out.

bast2 · June 2001

EXACTLY....the ad cost should ALWAYS get burried from the top on down. You should never present it to the customer as an "add-on" cost. I don't buy a fishing rod at Bass Pro and have the guy at check out tell me, "oh and by the way, I have to tack on an extra $4.95 to the tag price for advertising." Any ad costs should be absorbed from the beginning.

I have no doubt it was figured into the final cost I paid over invoice. That's why I'm convinced Billy must have slept with the salesperson to get his 2.6% over invoice! :-)

JB

scirocco22 · June 2001

Mike and Jeff-- Yup, you guys took my explanation and summed it up exactly --you're paying for it one way or another! I just don't think Billy "gits it" yet

--no offense, Billy :P

lmao, Jeff!!! --I'm obviously not going to comment on Billy's sexual orientation! :P :P

739 problem free miles (knock on wood, if that'll help) and *slowly* add'n --damn, I gotta start driving it more!

lauk0dg · June 2001

a beautiful blonde, model figure, ones that you can only see in a swimsuit magazine..... don't you see I am using the same technique so I can dream about that tonite? (OK not sleeping with my salesperson) yeah right.....my salesperson is a he and I already got a babe in the garage and a girlfriend (this one is the real babe). :>

OK let's do the math.....$660 over invoice, maybe $250 is the ad fee, so I paid $410 over invoice?? OH MY, I paid 1.6% over invoice.....oh yeah.

Now that makes me sleep a lot better at night dreaming about the ideal salesperson...... :>

Billy

jnscheong · June 2001

I live in the Southern California area. What is the typical dealer charging for an A4 1.8T Quattro relative to the invoice price in this area? Any dealer recommendations?

Thanx for your help.

jnscheong

drew37 · June 2001

and most advertising fees are a way for the dealer to just make a few more bucks. You think that you are paying, for example, $1000 over invoice. Then at the last minute they add those extra fees and all of a sudden you are paying a few hundred $$ more. They may try to give you the impression that these are unavoidable fees that must be paid, kind of like the way a sales tax is unavoidable and has to be paid. And all the time they will try to instill the ILLUSION that you are still paying $1000 over invoice. Don't be a victim of this SCAM. Set the ground rules the minute you start talking about price. Make it clear that you DO NOT pay dealer prep, advertising fees, etc. when purchasing a car. They will magically waive these fees if they are convinced that you know they are bogus.
Also beware of added on "extras". When the Hyundai Santa Fe first came out I stopped at the local dealer to take a look at it even though I had no plans to buy it. I had to laugh because on one of the Santa Fe's was an additional $160 fee for "deluxe pin stripe". A cheap piece of tape running down both sides of the vehicle. As Edmunds says "the most expensive piece of tape in the world".
From my experience all these bogus fees seem to happen much less at dealerships that sell more up scale, expensive cars. So, I am surprised to hear about an Audi dealer trying to pull that stuff.
Anyway these dealer scams really get me steamed. So much so, that my first post on this was deleted for using profanity. Whoops - I have to control myself.

scirocco22 · June 2001

Andrew-- I'll reiterate: the advertising fee is a legitimate fee. I wouldn't go as far as to say it is *bogus* --it is an actual cost to the dealer. How they pass this on to the consumer is what we are debating. They can include this cost as part of the profit they are making above their invoice or add it on to the end of the transaction as an additional fee. You are correct in advising people to "set the ground rules" before negotiations begin but as we have concluded in the previous string of posts, if it is a legitimate advertising fee (and Audi does in fact assess its dealers this fee on each car delivered to their premises), then the consumer is going to pay that fee one way or another. Again, the advertising fee is the amount of money that the MANUFACTURER charges its dealerships for their portion of the MANUFACTURER'S advertising expense (TV and magazine ads, etc. promoting the Audi BRAND); not the dealership's expense for their own local advertising such as ads in the local paper, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'll admit that many dealers use bogus "add-ons" but this Audi advertising fee that we are discussing, to my understanding, is not really a bogus add-on. From what I gather, the majority of the manufacturers charge their dealerships this fee and in turn the dealerships are going to pass this on to us, the consumer, one way or another. The key phrase here, again, is "one way or another."

Now *dealer prep* is an "add-on" and something I might call "bogus." Add-ons such as this contribute to the dealer's strategy to "pad" the sticker price to create the illusion that you are getting a better deal than you actually are. You know: "Wow! I got $3,000 off the sticker price!!!"

lauk0dg · June 2001

There will be a KK (Krispy Kreme) run tomorrow, Sunday, 6/3 at 5pm at the KK store in Elk Grove Village, northern suburbs in Chicagoland. The address is 418 E Devon Avenue. Last week we held the same thing (which I missed) and there were 15 Audi's (mostly A4 and S4), 1 Dodge Viper, and 1 Honda S2000 showed up. We will talk about cars, eat a few donuts, and talk about cars again. We expect more cars to show up tomorrow, since it was raining on/off last time, and weather forecast is predicting partly/mostly cloudy tomorrow.....it's ridiculous to have rain for 10 days in a row or something like that.

Everyone is welcomed!! Good opportunity for Audi owners to share experience and check out other cars' modifications, and excellent opportunity if you plan to get an Audi.....it's like a real showroom with different models and colors.

And fdxboy or JB, do show up tomorrow!! Long drive for you JB, but definitely worth it if you are in the area :>

Billy

lauk0dg · June 2001

Well so far in this board there had been a missing representation about where prices stand in CA.....but we folks in the midwest have been paying anywhere from 2.6% to 4% over invoice, with the prices in the NW (Seattle) area being the highest at around 5% over invoice. Hope that helps.

If you plan to order an 2001.5 A4 / 2002 S4, you cannot do that now. You can only pick from the dealer's lot or change an existing dealer order (if possible). So better act fast before dealer's stock runs low and new 2002 A4's haven't come in.....cuz people predict dealers will charge a premium for remaining A4's if those conditions happen.

Billy

drew37 · June 2001

Yes, you will pay for the advertising fee one way or another. Whether it is buried in the price you pay or itemized as a single cost. The point I am trying to make is that the advertising fee is a part of doing business. Just like buying a new computer or paving the parking lot or painting the waiting area or paying Joe the mechanic, etc,. etc., etc., etc. is part of doing business. When I purchase a car I expect that the dealer is going to take all these things into account when we arrive at that final price - including the advertising fee. I don't care what they spend their profit on as long as I feel I am getting a fair price. If we reach an agreement of, lets say, $1000 over invoice I don't want to hear at the LAST MINUTE, "Oh, by the way, there is also a $200 advertising fee, blah blah blah". If that $200 is so crucial in their ability to do business then they should have set their limit at $1200 above invoice.
Most dealers have the business sense to absorb the advertising fee into their negotiated price and not spring it on you at a later date. I don't have a problem with the advertising fee as a legitimate cost for the dealer - I just will not let them make it in to one of those "add-ons".
On a less serious note, how would you feel if the sales person said "Oh, by the way there is an additional fee of $250 because we're putting in a new lift in the service area?"
Also, how do you think the dealer would react if you said you were charging THEM a $300 "advertising fee" for placing that tacky decal or license plate bracket with the dealers name on the back of your car?

lauk0dg · June 2001

Well I didn't get paid for that, so that's why they're off my car already :L

Or maybe we should charge them $300 for going to their dealership and buy our cars.....darn too bad these are not legit claims.

I know my question to my dealer next time I visit....."Have I been screwed by you guys about that ad fee?".....cuz I want to see if I paid 1.6% over invoice or 2.6% over invoice :>

Billy

jnscheong · June 2001

Thanx for the heads up on the model year change over. I didn't think of that.

jnscheong

think77 · June 2001

I read some reviews of 2002 A4, it looks very pretty. Anybody knows when is it gonna be available for selling?

scirocco22 · June 2001

Jason-- lol, I think you are in the minority for it seems like most people like the styling of the old model more than the new one. But, it should be available in your dealer's showroom by October. The dealerships are taking orders for them right now but from what I'm hearing, nobody can verify the exact price they're putting on these orders. So it seems pretty risky ordering one not knowing the price you're paying but if you want to be first-on-the-block to have one then I guess you'd have to weigh that into your decision to order one now.

Stanley-- The research I did several months ago indicated that California, especially SoCal, had one of the lowest A4 prices in the country along with the Arizona area. I'm in Washington state (home of the "highest A4 prices in the country, lol) and I was actually thinking of going to LA to buy my A4 and driving it back but after thinking about, I decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

Andrew-- Your last post was excellent! I agree completely. Thanx for clarifying you thoughts.

markcincinnati · June 2001

My dealer is taking orders for the new 2002 A4 with either the 1.8T or 3.0 V6 as we speak. I assume it is within 75 - 120 days of landing.

scirocco22 · June 2001

Mark-- What's your understanding about the price they are charging for those orders?

drew37 · June 2001

My local dealer is also taking orders for 2002 A4's. Except they couldn't give me any information on trivial considerations like pricing, standard equipment, options or colors (<<<-- this last sentence is sarcasm). Am I missing something? How do you order a car without knowing these things?

scirocco22 · June 2001

Andrew-- hahahaha, yeah! If I can find the info I will post it, but colors and standard equipment are available and have been for some time, it's just the price that's not being divulged.

lauk0dg · June 2001

Various people said their dealers won't take orders in June for either the 2001.5 or the 2002 A4.....and will start taking orders for the 2002 A4 in July.....dunno the validity of this but just want to post it. Mark and Drew said their local dealers are taking orders for the 2002 A4's, so I guess some dealers may get new cars before others do.

Well to tell you the truth, when the new A6 first came out, I hated it. Now I started to like it....especially the A6 4.2 with the flared fenders.....so dunno if I will get to like the new A4.....but as of now, a BIG no.....especially the front end which is sooooo Passat....., and the interior of the new A4 sooooo Passat too.

Billy

scirocco22 · June 2001

...the oil temperature gauge and the voltmeter! I'd miss those!

jnscheong · June 2001

Should 3% above invoice be my target? Having seen the discussions about ad fee lately. What is the typical ad fee charge?

Stanley

drew37 · June 2001

When leasing a car, do you think the acquisition fee (and disposition fee, for that matter) is a legitimate charge or do you think this is just "dealer prep" in disguise? Is it negotiable?

scirocco22 · June 2001

Stanley-- yeah, 3% over sounds like a good figure but I'd even try for a little better to start out. Like Billy keeps saying, he got 2.6% over (or 1.6% depending how you look at it) but that is the exception. I haven't heard too many people, anywhere, getting a deal like that. As for the ad fee, it ranges from $200-$800 depending on the manufacturer but I believe Audi's is around $225-$275. Where I bought my car, the standard practice is to add that fee into the invoice price. But according to my salesman, he *forgot* to add that in so he claimed that I received a better deal than I thought and that the owner of the dealership would be hoppin' mad when he finds out (it was a Saturday), which is a bunch of BS but never-the-less, like we've said previously, you'll pay for it "one way or the other!" lol.

Andrew-- take a look as this web-site (www.carbuyingtips.com), it has a lot of valuable information. They claim that the acquistion fee is hard to negotiate out but the disposition fee is negotiable. This particular link that I'm posting gives you some info on both the acquisition fee and the disposition fee.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/glossary.htm

pat · June 2001

There is also a ton of information on our Finance, Warranty & Insurance Board on leasing. One discussion you might want to check out is at this link: Lease Questions - Ask Here.

Hope this is helpful.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

pat · June 2001

I see you've already found it. Let us know what you find out.

I'll leave that post in case it is useful to anyone else.

markcincinnati · June 2001

My dealer's salesreps went to a product announcement, indoctrination -- whatever -- meeting that was held for Ohio dealers in Columbus (in April). Content of the A4's was, at the time of the meeting, "mostly" cast in stone -- from talking with my salesrep, he said that in some respects content is greater -- but substantially similar -- to the outgoing A4's. I believe the following is true: ESP is now standard and comes with brake assist. I assume (and I said assume) that this is correct for both the 1.8 and the 3.0's. On the 3.0s everything is power operated, like on the outgoing 2.8 A4s. Bigger wheels are standard and I think 17"s are either standard or standard with certain packages (perhaps the sport package).

Audi Telematics -- I can't recall if he said it/they were standard or avaiable or standard with certain options, such as Sat Nav. Perhaps it is that there is a premium package which includes the basic On*Star functionality, but no GPS Nav assist. So much of what he was telling me was from his memory and now through the filter of my memory.

He confirmed no Avant and No S4 for NOW -- but said they were trying to position the 3.0 engine at 220 hp as an "almost S4" if equipped with sport susp, upsize wheel/tires 6 spd manual and sport seats -- well maybe S4-lite.

I didn't ask about colors, I asked if you could still pay for Pearl white, and he said almost definately it is so popular. My assumption is that there will be few suprises in the color dept.

The gauges get glasses (chrome trim rings).

The only manual will be the 6 spd (3.0 only? sorry I can't remember). The 6spd tiptronic will not make its US debut this year -- and it will probably come out first on the A8's. So for our shiftless friends, 5 spd tip soldiers on.

Car is supposed to be stiffer, quieter, marginally bigger inside, wider, handle better, bla bla bla.

A $500 deposit will get one on order for you (my dealer told me I could give him $200 tho). He did not know the MSRP -- said it will be "similar" to the outgoing A4 + a "couple of percent."

Production bound for the US happens at the end of June or beginning of July -- so plus 75 days from July 1 should be when you could drive away (at the earliest) -- 120 days max in my experience.

Sorry this was so "from memory" -- my dealer had no literature or brochures or color charts -- said the dealer meeting was not just focused on 2002's but also on raising the JD Powers rating of defects and overall ranking -- apparently Audi slipped a bit this year and BMW and Mercedes are both in the top 10 -- Audi is now down around #14, I think he said -- and that is down from #11 (again from memory).

All for now.

scirocco22 · June 2001

Someone over at AW posted a condensed brochure put out by Audi for the US market which he picked up at one of the auto shows. It listed the new colors, option pkgs, etc. If I can find it, I'll post it later. One of the things that I noticed listed as an option on the 3.0 is something called "Parktronic." I'm assuming that this is a reverse sensor of some type. Or could it be that in a combination of the *auto-downward* right mirror when shifting into reverse similar to what the Passat GLX currently has?

varig · June 2001

I am going to replace my trusty Honda this year and have been considering buying either a Subaru or an Audi A4.

I test drove both a Forester and an A4 last Fall. I liked the Forester's ride height and also the abundance of glass which makes for excellent visibility. I also liked that the Forester included heated seats/ wiper blades/mirrors as standard rather than optional equipment.The huge moonroof on the Forester is also a plus. The ride was acceptable. Not as good as my Honda, but it would get me from point A to B.

Then I drove the Audi A4 1.8T Quattro, Sport. What can I say, it drove great! I almost decided to get the Audi then and there, but decided that it is best to "cool down" and not let momentary emotions interfere with rationally deciding on which vehicle to buy. One "complaint" I had about the A4 was the cramped back seat. Not that the Forester was any better, but perhaps my expectations were different. About the same time, the "new A4" was unveiled at the AudiWorld web site. Contrary to the majority of postings, I think that the redesigned A4 looks pretty good especially when I compare it to my current car. I also read that the leg room in the back seat was improved. So I decided to wait until this year.

Now Subaru has also added the WRX to it's model lineup. I have not test driven the WRX, but I've read the WRX board and most folks have been positive about the car. Although I don't race, it does have more HP than the 1.8T. I'm not too excited about the looks. It looks like something that a teenager / early twentysomething would drive. But then I also think that Subaru takes some sort of deranged pride in producing "quirky-looking" vehicles.

Now that my A4-fever has had time to subside, I am trying to rationally decide on which vehicle to buy. If I buy a Subaru, I will save between $5-8K, but then it is what some have called a "Japanese Econobox". It goes without saying that the A4 is a nicer car and has a more "solid" feel, but I've read that Audi's are subject to reliability issues, and repair costs tend to be high. I keep cars till they almost don't run anymore, so I'm looking for a car that will give me good service for at least 10 years.

The words of the salesman that sold the Honda to me still ring in my ears : "If you buy the best you can afford, you'll never have any regrets"

Will I regret not buying an A4?

scirocco22 · June 2001

D.J.-- I too had the same concerns that you did when I shopped for my A4. But two things that swayed my decision that I'll mention again which I've posted several times on this board: 1) Audi has had 6 years to work out the *bugs* on the current A4 (2002 is another story for it is essentially a new car except for carrying over the 1.8t engine and Quattro IV) and 2) the 1.8t engine is used across the VW product line and is a proven and award winning engine with excellent reliability ratings--so, because of its popularity, parts and service knowledge should therefore be readily and abundantly available for many years. True, German cars will be more expensive to repair than their counterparts but from what I have gathered, Audi has bettered their reliability ratings somewhat from previous years to a very acceptable level ...nothing like the reliability of a Lexus or an Accura but still not bad for a European car. So no, IMO, you will not regret buying an Audi for as you tell from those of us posting on these message boards, we love our Audis! Btw, the new 2002 will in fact have more rear seat leg room but not a substantial amount ...and I have some personal pros and cons that I'll post later if you're interested.

I am also presently shopping for either a Forester or an Outback wagon (read the thread I started over in the "Station Wagon" section titled: "Subaru wagons: so many choices"). Yeah, I'd love a WRX wagon but 1) it's a little too small for what I'm intending to use it for and 2) IMHO, it's *ugly* :P

Speaking of quirky looking vehicles, are you old enough to remember this Subaru beaut'? or I should brat, lol: http://www.fhi.co.jp/subaru/bode12.htm

Okay, more later... keep us posted on what you decide to do, D.J.

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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