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Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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Comments

  • bast2bast2 Posts: 52
    Guess I have to agree with mmcbride to a certain degree on this one. The ad cost is going to get burried in there somewhere. Every dealer I approached I specifically asked what the ad cost was, or at least how it was figured in. In every case around here I was told the ad cost is absorbed into the final price of the car. You wouldn't see it listed on the final paperwork, which was true. However, I specifically remember it WAS listed on the final paperwork when I bought my truck 3 years ago.

    Funny, I'm in the ad biz, but have never run into this type of situation. In other product markets retailers are able to accrue co-op dollars to spend on advertising for the given manufacturer's products. If store "A" buys $10,000 of Company "B's" product, store A accrues, say 3% credit to be spent on local advertising. The more inventory they buy, the more company B gives them ad dollars to be spent locally. I've never seen a local retailer tagged for ad costs which would ultimately be spent on a national level, only to have the local retailer tag the consumer in the end. It's weird though, every industry can be different.

    JB
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    But even with retail products, the customer always pays for it in the end. So each box of Fruit Loops costs the retailer $.03 more to buy from Kellogg's because they had to pay the guy who created Toucan Sam, then that difference would be tacked on to the retail price, and the consumer is none the wiser.

    In the end, it's all the same, it's just a matter of how it's presented to the consumer in the end. Personally, I'd rather see AoA bury it in the price of the car so it doesn't stick out.
  • bast2bast2 Posts: 52
    EXACTLY....the ad cost should ALWAYS get burried from the top on down. You should never present it to the customer as an "add-on" cost. I don't buy a fishing rod at Bass Pro and have the guy at check out tell me, "oh and by the way, I have to tack on an extra $4.95 to the tag price for advertising." Any ad costs should be absorbed from the beginning.

    I have no doubt it was figured into the final cost I paid over invoice. That's why I'm convinced Billy must have slept with the salesperson to get his 2.6% over invoice! :-)

    JB
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Mike and Jeff-- Yup, you guys took my explanation and summed it up exactly --you're paying for it one way or another! I just don't think Billy "gits it" yet ;) --no offense, Billy :P

    lmao, Jeff!!! --I'm obviously not going to comment on Billy's sexual orientation! :P :P

    739 problem free miles (knock on wood, if that'll help) and *slowly* add'n --damn, I gotta start driving it more!
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    a beautiful blonde, model figure, ones that you can only see in a swimsuit magazine..... don't you see I am using the same technique so I can dream about that tonite? (OK not sleeping with my salesperson) yeah right.....my salesperson is a he and I already got a babe in the garage and a girlfriend (this one is the real babe). :>

    OK let's do the math.....$660 over invoice, maybe $250 is the ad fee, so I paid $410 over invoice?? OH MY, I paid 1.6% over invoice.....oh yeah.

    Now that makes me sleep a lot better at night dreaming about the ideal salesperson...... :>

    Billy
  • jnscheongjnscheong Posts: 66
    I live in the Southern California area. What is the typical dealer charging for an A4 1.8T Quattro relative to the invoice price in this area? Any dealer recommendations?

    Thanx for your help.

    jnscheong
  • drew37drew37 Posts: 62
    and most advertising fees are a way for the dealer to just make a few more bucks. You think that you are paying, for example, $1000 over invoice. Then at the last minute they add those extra fees and all of a sudden you are paying a few hundred $$ more. They may try to give you the impression that these are unavoidable fees that must be paid, kind of like the way a sales tax is unavoidable and has to be paid. And all the time they will try to instill the ILLUSION that you are still paying $1000 over invoice. Don't be a victim of this SCAM. Set the ground rules the minute you start talking about price. Make it clear that you DO NOT pay dealer prep, advertising fees, etc. when purchasing a car. They will magically waive these fees if they are convinced that you know they are bogus.
    Also beware of added on "extras". When the Hyundai Santa Fe first came out I stopped at the local dealer to take a look at it even though I had no plans to buy it. I had to laugh because on one of the Santa Fe's was an additional $160 fee for "deluxe pin stripe". A cheap piece of tape running down both sides of the vehicle. As Edmunds says "the most expensive piece of tape in the world".
    From my experience all these bogus fees seem to happen much less at dealerships that sell more up scale, expensive cars. So, I am surprised to hear about an Audi dealer trying to pull that stuff.
    Anyway these dealer scams really get me steamed. So much so, that my first post on this was deleted for using profanity. Whoops - I have to control myself.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Andrew-- I'll reiterate: the advertising fee is a legitimate fee. I wouldn't go as far as to say it is *bogus* --it is an actual cost to the dealer. How they pass this on to the consumer is what we are debating. They can include this cost as part of the profit they are making above their invoice or add it on to the end of the transaction as an additional fee. You are correct in advising people to "set the ground rules" before negotiations begin but as we have concluded in the previous string of posts, if it is a legitimate advertising fee (and Audi does in fact assess its dealers this fee on each car delivered to their premises), then the consumer is going to pay that fee one way or another. Again, the advertising fee is the amount of money that the MANUFACTURER charges its dealerships for their portion of the MANUFACTURER'S advertising expense (TV and magazine ads, etc. promoting the Audi BRAND); not the dealership's expense for their own local advertising such as ads in the local paper, etc.

    Don't get me wrong, I'll admit that many dealers use bogus "add-ons" but this Audi advertising fee that we are discussing, to my understanding, is not really a bogus add-on. From what I gather, the majority of the manufacturers charge their dealerships this fee and in turn the dealerships are going to pass this on to us, the consumer, one way or another. The key phrase here, again, is "one way or another."

    Now *dealer prep* is an "add-on" and something I might call "bogus." Add-ons such as this contribute to the dealer's strategy to "pad" the sticker price to create the illusion that you are getting a better deal than you actually are. You know: "Wow! I got $3,000 off the sticker price!!!"
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    There will be a KK (Krispy Kreme) run tomorrow, Sunday, 6/3 at 5pm at the KK store in Elk Grove Village, northern suburbs in Chicagoland. The address is 418 E Devon Avenue. Last week we held the same thing (which I missed) and there were 15 Audi's (mostly A4 and S4), 1 Dodge Viper, and 1 Honda S2000 showed up. We will talk about cars, eat a few donuts, and talk about cars again. We expect more cars to show up tomorrow, since it was raining on/off last time, and weather forecast is predicting partly/mostly cloudy tomorrow.....it's ridiculous to have rain for 10 days in a row or something like that.

    Everyone is welcomed!! Good opportunity for Audi owners to share experience and check out other cars' modifications, and excellent opportunity if you plan to get an Audi.....it's like a real showroom with different models and colors.

    And fdxboy or JB, do show up tomorrow!! Long drive for you JB, but definitely worth it if you are in the area :>

    Billy
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Well so far in this board there had been a missing representation about where prices stand in CA.....but we folks in the midwest have been paying anywhere from 2.6% to 4% over invoice, with the prices in the NW (Seattle) area being the highest at around 5% over invoice. Hope that helps.

    If you plan to order an 2001.5 A4 / 2002 S4, you cannot do that now. You can only pick from the dealer's lot or change an existing dealer order (if possible). So better act fast before dealer's stock runs low and new 2002 A4's haven't come in.....cuz people predict dealers will charge a premium for remaining A4's if those conditions happen.

    Billy
  • drew37drew37 Posts: 62
    Yes, you will pay for the advertising fee one way or another. Whether it is buried in the price you pay or itemized as a single cost. The point I am trying to make is that the advertising fee is a part of doing business. Just like buying a new computer or paving the parking lot or painting the waiting area or paying Joe the mechanic, etc,. etc., etc., etc. is part of doing business. When I purchase a car I expect that the dealer is going to take all these things into account when we arrive at that final price - including the advertising fee. I don't care what they spend their profit on as long as I feel I am getting a fair price. If we reach an agreement of, lets say, $1000 over invoice I don't want to hear at the LAST MINUTE, "Oh, by the way, there is also a $200 advertising fee, blah blah blah". If that $200 is so crucial in their ability to do business then they should have set their limit at $1200 above invoice.
    Most dealers have the business sense to absorb the advertising fee into their negotiated price and not spring it on you at a later date. I don't have a problem with the advertising fee as a legitimate cost for the dealer - I just will not let them make it in to one of those "add-ons".
    On a less serious note, how would you feel if the sales person said "Oh, by the way there is an additional fee of $250 because we're putting in a new lift in the service area?"
    Also, how do you think the dealer would react if you said you were charging THEM a $300 "advertising fee" for placing that tacky decal or license plate bracket with the dealers name on the back of your car?
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Well I didn't get paid for that, so that's why they're off my car already :L

    Or maybe we should charge them $300 for going to their dealership and buy our cars.....darn too bad these are not legit claims.

    I know my question to my dealer next time I visit....."Have I been screwed by you guys about that ad fee?".....cuz I want to see if I paid 1.6% over invoice or 2.6% over invoice :>

    Billy
  • jnscheongjnscheong Posts: 66
    Thanx for the heads up on the model year change over. I didn't think of that.

    jnscheong
  • think77think77 Posts: 1
    I read some reviews of 2002 A4, it looks very pretty. Anybody knows when is it gonna be available for selling?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Jason-- lol, I think you are in the minority for it seems like most people like the styling of the old model more than the new one. But, it should be available in your dealer's showroom by October. The dealerships are taking orders for them right now but from what I'm hearing, nobody can verify the exact price they're putting on these orders. So it seems pretty risky ordering one not knowing the price you're paying but if you want to be first-on-the-block to have one then I guess you'd have to weigh that into your decision to order one now.

    Stanley-- The research I did several months ago indicated that California, especially SoCal, had one of the lowest A4 prices in the country along with the Arizona area. I'm in Washington state (home of the "highest A4 prices in the country, lol) and I was actually thinking of going to LA to buy my A4 and driving it back but after thinking about, I decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

    Andrew-- Your last post was excellent! I agree completely. Thanx for clarifying you thoughts.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,106
    My dealer is taking orders for the new 2002 A4 with either the 1.8T or 3.0 V6 as we speak. I assume it is within 75 - 120 days of landing.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Mark-- What's your understanding about the price they are charging for those orders?
  • drew37drew37 Posts: 62
    My local dealer is also taking orders for 2002 A4's. Except they couldn't give me any information on trivial considerations like pricing, standard equipment, options or colors (<<<-- this last sentence is sarcasm). Am I missing something? How do you order a car without knowing these things?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Andrew-- hahahaha, yeah! If I can find the info I will post it, but colors and standard equipment are available and have been for some time, it's just the price that's not being divulged.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Various people said their dealers won't take orders in June for either the 2001.5 or the 2002 A4.....and will start taking orders for the 2002 A4 in July.....dunno the validity of this but just want to post it. Mark and Drew said their local dealers are taking orders for the 2002 A4's, so I guess some dealers may get new cars before others do.

    Well to tell you the truth, when the new A6 first came out, I hated it. Now I started to like it....especially the A6 4.2 with the flared fenders.....so dunno if I will get to like the new A4.....but as of now, a BIG no.....especially the front end which is sooooo Passat....., and the interior of the new A4 sooooo Passat too.

    Billy
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    ...the oil temperature gauge and the voltmeter! I'd miss those!
  • jnscheongjnscheong Posts: 66
    Should 3% above invoice be my target? Having seen the discussions about ad fee lately. What is the typical ad fee charge?

    Stanley
  • drew37drew37 Posts: 62
    When leasing a car, do you think the acquisition fee (and disposition fee, for that matter) is a legitimate charge or do you think this is just "dealer prep" in disguise? Is it negotiable?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Stanley-- yeah, 3% over sounds like a good figure but I'd even try for a little better to start out. Like Billy keeps saying, he got 2.6% over (or 1.6% depending how you look at it) but that is the exception. I haven't heard too many people, anywhere, getting a deal like that. As for the ad fee, it ranges from $200-$800 depending on the manufacturer but I believe Audi's is around $225-$275. Where I bought my car, the standard practice is to add that fee into the invoice price. But according to my salesman, he *forgot* to add that in so he claimed that I received a better deal than I thought and that the owner of the dealership would be hoppin' mad when he finds out (it was a Saturday), which is a bunch of BS but never-the-less, like we've said previously, you'll pay for it "one way or the other!" lol.


    Andrew-- take a look as this web-site (www.carbuyingtips.com), it has a lot of valuable information. They claim that the acquistion fee is hard to negotiate out but the disposition fee is negotiable. This particular link that I'm posting gives you some info on both the acquisition fee and the disposition fee.


    http://www.carbuyingtips.com/glossary.htm

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    There is also a ton of information on our Finance, Warranty & Insurance Board on leasing. One discussion you might want to check out is at this link: Lease Questions - Ask Here.

    Hope this is helpful.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I see you've already found it. Let us know what you find out.

    I'll leave that post in case it is useful to anyone else.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,106
    My dealer's salesreps went to a product announcement, indoctrination -- whatever -- meeting that was held for Ohio dealers in Columbus (in April). Content of the A4's was, at the time of the meeting, "mostly" cast in stone -- from talking with my salesrep, he said that in some respects content is greater -- but substantially similar -- to the outgoing A4's. I believe the following is true: ESP is now standard and comes with brake assist. I assume (and I said assume) that this is correct for both the 1.8 and the 3.0's. On the 3.0s everything is power operated, like on the outgoing 2.8 A4s. Bigger wheels are standard and I think 17"s are either standard or standard with certain packages (perhaps the sport package).

    Audi Telematics -- I can't recall if he said it/they were standard or avaiable or standard with certain options, such as Sat Nav. Perhaps it is that there is a premium package which includes the basic On*Star functionality, but no GPS Nav assist. So much of what he was telling me was from his memory and now through the filter of my memory.

    He confirmed no Avant and No S4 for NOW -- but said they were trying to position the 3.0 engine at 220 hp as an "almost S4" if equipped with sport susp, upsize wheel/tires 6 spd manual and sport seats -- well maybe S4-lite.

    I didn't ask about colors, I asked if you could still pay for Pearl white, and he said almost definately it is so popular. My assumption is that there will be few suprises in the color dept.

    The gauges get glasses (chrome trim rings).

    The only manual will be the 6 spd (3.0 only? sorry I can't remember). The 6spd tiptronic will not make its US debut this year -- and it will probably come out first on the A8's. So for our shiftless friends, 5 spd tip soldiers on.

    Car is supposed to be stiffer, quieter, marginally bigger inside, wider, handle better, bla bla bla.

    A $500 deposit will get one on order for you (my dealer told me I could give him $200 tho). He did not know the MSRP -- said it will be "similar" to the outgoing A4 + a "couple of percent."

    Production bound for the US happens at the end of June or beginning of July -- so plus 75 days from July 1 should be when you could drive away (at the earliest) -- 120 days max in my experience.

    Sorry this was so "from memory" -- my dealer had no literature or brochures or color charts -- said the dealer meeting was not just focused on 2002's but also on raising the JD Powers rating of defects and overall ranking -- apparently Audi slipped a bit this year and BMW and Mercedes are both in the top 10 -- Audi is now down around #14, I think he said -- and that is down from #11 (again from memory).

    All for now.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Someone over at AW posted a condensed brochure put out by Audi for the US market which he picked up at one of the auto shows. It listed the new colors, option pkgs, etc. If I can find it, I'll post it later. One of the things that I noticed listed as an option on the 3.0 is something called "Parktronic." I'm assuming that this is a reverse sensor of some type. Or could it be that in a combination of the *auto-downward* right mirror when shifting into reverse similar to what the Passat GLX currently has?
  • varigvarig Posts: 99
    I am going to replace my trusty Honda this year and have been considering buying either a Subaru or an Audi A4.

    I test drove both a Forester and an A4 last Fall. I liked the Forester's ride height and also the abundance of glass which makes for excellent visibility. I also liked that the Forester included heated seats/ wiper blades/mirrors as standard rather than optional equipment.The huge moonroof on the Forester is also a plus. The ride was acceptable. Not as good as my Honda, but it would get me from point A to B.

    Then I drove the Audi A4 1.8T Quattro, Sport. What can I say, it drove great! I almost decided to get the Audi then and there, but decided that it is best to "cool down" and not let momentary emotions interfere with rationally deciding on which vehicle to buy. One "complaint" I had about the A4 was the cramped back seat. Not that the Forester was any better, but perhaps my expectations were different. About the same time, the "new A4" was unveiled at the AudiWorld web site. Contrary to the majority of postings, I think that the redesigned A4 looks pretty good especially when I compare it to my current car. I also read that the leg room in the back seat was improved. So I decided to wait until this year.

    Now Subaru has also added the WRX to it's model lineup. I have not test driven the WRX, but I've read the WRX board and most folks have been positive about the car. Although I don't race, it does have more HP than the 1.8T. I'm not too excited about the looks. It looks like something that a teenager / early twentysomething would drive. But then I also think that Subaru takes some sort of deranged pride in producing "quirky-looking" vehicles.

    Now that my A4-fever has had time to subside, I am trying to rationally decide on which vehicle to buy. If I buy a Subaru, I will save between $5-8K, but then it is what some have called a "Japanese Econobox". It goes without saying that the A4 is a nicer car and has a more "solid" feel, but I've read that Audi's are subject to reliability issues, and repair costs tend to be high. I keep cars till they almost don't run anymore, so I'm looking for a car that will give me good service for at least 10 years.

    The words of the salesman that sold the Honda to me still ring in my ears : "If you buy the best you can afford, you'll never have any regrets"

    Will I regret not buying an A4?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    D.J.-- I too had the same concerns that you did when I shopped for my A4. But two things that swayed my decision that I'll mention again which I've posted several times on this board: 1) Audi has had 6 years to work out the *bugs* on the current A4 (2002 is another story for it is essentially a new car except for carrying over the 1.8t engine and Quattro IV) and 2) the 1.8t engine is used across the VW product line and is a proven and award winning engine with excellent reliability ratings--so, because of its popularity, parts and service knowledge should therefore be readily and abundantly available for many years. True, German cars will be more expensive to repair than their counterparts but from what I have gathered, Audi has bettered their reliability ratings somewhat from previous years to a very acceptable level ...nothing like the reliability of a Lexus or an Accura but still not bad for a European car. So no, IMO, you will not regret buying an Audi for as you tell from those of us posting on these message boards, we love our Audis! Btw, the new 2002 will in fact have more rear seat leg room but not a substantial amount ...and I have some personal pros and cons that I'll post later if you're interested.

    I am also presently shopping for either a Forester or an Outback wagon (read the thread I started over in the "Station Wagon" section titled: "Subaru wagons: so many choices"). Yeah, I'd love a WRX wagon but 1) it's a little too small for what I'm intending to use it for and 2) IMHO, it's *ugly* :P

    Speaking of quirky looking vehicles, are you old enough to remember this Subaru beaut'? or I should brat, lol: http://www.fhi.co.jp/subaru/bode12.htm

    Okay, more later... keep us posted on what you decide to do, D.J.
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