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Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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  • of my 02 A4 to fix a rattle.
    There are two pipes that come down out of the engine, and meet at a point somewhere right behind the engine...sorta below the front passenger area....and then it splits off again into the dual exhausts. Kinda looked like an "X" shaped but the point where they cross is a little higher up.

    i'm just babbleing...got 3 hours of sleep.
    whoohoo! my wife let me drive the A4 to work today! hahahaha....2nd time in 2 1/2 weeks! whoohoo!
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    I thought yours is a 1.8T.....and correct me if I am wrong, but I thought only 6-cylinder engines can have true dual exhausts.....so those 2 downpipes can't be real individual downpipes.....plus they join together before splitting again.....but yeah, the appearance of true dual exhausts is so awesome.

    Uh oh, thanks Shipo for correcting me.

    How about the next genearation RS6 that rumored to have 450hp?? It should rival the M5.....if the Quattro system is not that heavy.

    Mark, I heard people talking about the price of the 03 S4 should be around $50k, so your hypothesized 5k price hop from a fully loaded A4 3.0 might be about right. Yeah while most US drivers don't even know there is an S4 in US (I've heard funny stories about riced out Hondas trying to race an S4 and got totally smoked and they proclaimed, "Geez those A4's are fast and we better watch out!!"), look at the M3.....the same exact thing came over from Europe.....ok maybe the rims are not as big as the ones in Europe cuz of our crappy roads, but still.....AoA, ship the RS4 and the RS6 over please.....everybody chip in like $10 for the emission certification please :>

    Billy
  • sb55sb55 On an Island in VermontPosts: 185
    Shipo:
    I've seen you on the 5 series board.
    I just got a 530i 5 speed. I did cross shop the 3.0 A-4, but as a past A-4 owner I thought that the 530i was a better value even though it is about $2K more in real world dollars. Also, I really liked the looks of my '98 A-4, but never warmed up to the current A-6 (esp. the rear end), and now the similar A-4 styling.
    I didn't do E.D. since I needed a car in a hurry, but got what I wanted at about $2500. off of list. (I'm also in the NY metro area).
    Good luck in your decision and search.
    sb55

    2007 Miata, 2010 BMW 535xiT, 2014 Chevy Silverado LT Ext. cab, 2006 Subaru Legacy Wagon

  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    I don't like the looks of the current 3 series sedan and but love the looks of the 3 series coupe and the 5 series sedans.....before the 530i I always think the 528i is a little underpowered but with the new 530i power should be adequate, right sb55?

    Oh by the way I just learned that the 2001 A4/S4 had been awarded the Best Car of the Year 2001 Award by 2 prestiged car magazines and car authority in Hong Kong. I gotta find out if they're talking about the new B6 platform A4 or the B5 platform A4.....since we get the B6 platform A4 more than a year after Europe got it....but judging by the fact that they pair up the A4 and S4 I'd think they're talking about the B5 platform A4/S4.

    Billy
  • I'm debating between purchasing the Passat GLX or the A4 1.8t with CVT (or possibly the 325i). Here are what I see as the plusses and minuses of each...

    Passat's V6 seems to have better low-range acceleration than the a4 (although neither is all that spectacular.) It comes with leather and automatic seats. The car is a bit big for my taste, though.

    I think I can get it for under 29,000, which to me seems to be a lot of money for a VW, when I could get an Audi for the same price or possibly even less.

    As for the Audi, if I could get leather and auto seats, I'd probably go for that car. It's amazing to me that I can get these options on a BMW, Accord, Camry, or Maxima but not an Audi 1.8t.

    As for the BMW, love the exterior, but can't get past the dated interior look. Audi and Passat have BMW beat hands down here(although the Bimmer is a fun car to drive).

    Can anyone offer any thoughts?
  • The leather-and-power thing was a turn-off for me initially too, but I got over it. I think that the quality of Audi leatherette is really high, and only a close inspection would make an observer think it is not the real deal. It's also supposed to wear a lot better. I have power seats in my current SUV, and I use them seldom, as what is a comfortable driving position for me today is likely to still be comfortable for me tomorrow. The 1.8T seats are pretty adjustable and I found it very easy to get comfortable. Power and memory might be worth it if I was going to share the car a lot, which I'm not.
  • Personally I'd be quite happy with the leatherette. I think it's attractive and wears well. But heck I wish they'd bring back vinyl, heheh. Everything is either cloth or leather. I dislike cloth because it doesn't clean easy and I have a dog. And while I like leather, I don't like paying for it and have to be very carefull because of my dog.

    I bought a 2001.5 Passat GLS V6 wagon and though I am extremely happy with it, I'd trade it for a 2002 A4 3.0 Avant :-) Originally I bought the Passat planning to keep it many years but now I'm thinking that if there's any way I can afford to move up to an Audi S4 on the new body style when they come out I'll do it.
  • Audi has stability control (ESP) and rear side air bags are optional - not so on the passat
  • "Anyhow, after I went to the Quattro Challenge hosted by Audi, they showed us how good
    Quattro is even on dry pavement and wet pavement (water). We can downshift, make a turn, and because it got all the wheels sharing the engine torque, it's just incredibly smooth coming out of curves. When you go and test drive the Audi with Quattro, ask the salesman for a very curvy road. . ."

    Billy's sentiments express exactly what got my wife and me hooked on quattro's -- and Audi's driving school in Austria also provides further persuasion as they have two rear-wheel-drive A4's for demonstrating the quattro's handling prowess when compared with RWD only.

    The very fact that some want to seriously consider an RWD BMW against an AWD Audi -- convinces me that I must test drive a 330xi and a 330 non-xi. I cannot imagine any RWD besting even the 330xi's "take" on AWD (rearward bias and slightly higher center of gravity, that is). The very fact that an RWD 330 would be shopped against an A4 3.0 quattro blows my mind. The BMW must be fantastic. I will be trying one very soon -- but I will try it in real-world conditions, and color me -- in advance -- skeptical. How could any RWD provide the kind of handling, performance, safety and fun in the kind of circumstances we "enjoy" here in River City (Cincinnati)? Even though we generally have moderate winters and this year we are waiting to go below 50F (daytime) and rain, it seems to me that the oversteer tendencies of RWD and the lack of distributed torque would make the Audi A4 3.0 quattro run (four) circles around most if not all RWD vehicles, no matter what their pedigree.

    I would rather have the 330xi than the RWD version -- assuming that I wanted a Bimmer. The Mercedes AWD deserves a look see also, but it is even more money than the xi version.

    Anyway, I will give the BMW a test drive and report back as soon as I can!

    If I had a spare 2000 DM, I would send anyone who wanted to understand what I am talking about to the Audi Driving Experience in Seefeld Austria -- I cannot imagine anyone would come out of that experience less than 100% convinced of the "value, safety, performance, fun and superiority" of AWD, especially quattro.

    I'll save my pfennings.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    oh by the way I test drove a RWD BMW 325ci before I got the Audi. While I didn't drive "like I stole it", it didn't show me why I want to get a RWD BMW......but there are a million things that pointed me the other way.....things like seeing all the RWD Lexus, BMW and M-B's getting stuck in like 3 inches of snow here in Chicago. C'mon.

    I agree when people test drive BMW RWD's and AWD's, drive it hard. My theory is, RWD works better than FWD and maybe AWD IF, ONLY IF, you are a pro in a track. Pro drivers drive not by how they see the road, but how the car sees the road. They taught us that in the Audi Quattro Challenge that, let's say, you are turning into the curve, you're oversteering or your back end starts to come out. Contrary to what people usually do, i.e. brakes, you actually gas on an AWD vehicle. Why's that? When you gas, your car's weight shifted to the rear, and that puts more traction back to the rear and "miraculously" the rear kicks right in and you are right on track. And because Quattro sends only half of the power to the rear it won't completely kicks your car out like a RWD car will do. Try that in a BMW and you head straight into the wall without steering input.

    By the way at the Quattro Challenge, one of the local Audi dealers also deal BMW's and they brought a BMW 325i RWD to demo how good Quattro is. They put the cars on a wet plastic sheet and in turns accelerated the cars while making a turn. It's important to remember that (Four X no traction = no traction), regardless Quattro, FWD or RWD. The Audi with Quattro, while skidding a little bit, came out from the curve only about 20 degrees away from where it intended to go. The BMW with RWD almost made a 90 degrees turn and if that's a real world situation, you will be sideways towards incoming traffic. They also floored both cars on a GRAVEL straightaway. The Audi Quattro A4 accelerated without problems but the BMW RWD got hampered by the traction control and cuts its throttle, its computer thinking the wheels got minimal traction. Of course the Audi won. Totally bought our minds.

    Yeah actually I'm interested to test drive BMW's AWD (with RWD bias like normal power 67% to the rear and 33% to the front) and see how it compares to Audi's Quattro with equal bias, 50% to the front and 50% to the rear.

    And Mark, I just joined the national Quattro Club thing and on the fall issue they said there're half available openings in the 2003 Austria trip.....tempting tempting.

    Billy
  • Edwin-- I just got off the phone with a friend who has a friend who has a new 1.8T. This person has been in touch with both GIAC (Garrett) and APR this last week (evidently) and the report is that both chip tuners are on the verge of offering a new chip for the 2002 A4 1.8T. The 2002 ECU evidently has more sophisticated security features built-in in order to make it more difficult for tuners to do this type of "hacking" but as somebody said, anything can be hacked eventually.

    So, if it aids any in your decision, it sounds like chips are on the way for the 1.8T for whatever it's worth.*grins*

    --'rocco
  • eawegeaweg Posts: 50
    I appreciate you remembering! I am on the 6-month delayed purchasing plan...which means " I gotta wait for some more dough" However, I plan to use the six months wisely...I will test drive every possible combination of transmission, engine, and drive before I purchase the Audi. I look forward to hearing people's "chipping results" soon. By no means am I a speedracer...I would just like a little more "OOMPH"
  • Edwin-- Exactly! ...I considered chipping too and, like you, am not not a speedracer either but thought I might want that little extra too. But so far, I see nothing wrong with the way my engine is performing but maybe it's because I have the lighter "old" platform A4 with a 5-speed manual.

    Good luck in your decision and have fun doing all those test drives!

    --'rocco
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    I bought a new Passat last spring;I like it much better than the A4. Someone posted that the Passat seems a little too big,which really surprises me.I find it quite tidy outside,with a HUGE back seat.
    I've read that the Passat actually shares some underpinnings with the A6,and should be considered more a shortened A6 than a larger A4.
    I understand the attraction of the A4,though. I object to the rising belt line,though,it makes the rear cabin claustrophobic. On the other hand,it has the nicest vinyl uplostery I've every seen.
  • But I went to the Seattle International Auto Show a while back, and got into a little friendly argument with some VW guy there about the Passat. I remember reading very clearly that the Passat (and I followed the passat closely since it's major redesign in 98) was a stretched A4.
    The dealer said no way, NO WAY. The passat is based off the A6.
    now....why would they say that.
    I can think of 2 possible reasons.
    1) that it is indeed based off the A6 or
    2) it makes the passat sound much better to say that...who's gonna prove them wrong.

    well...I bought my A4 a week after a friend of mine bought her Passat. I got a 1.8T Quattro A4, and she got one of the rare Passat GLS 4motions.

    MerckX ..please...the passat's back seat is not HUGE! it's not that much better than the A4.
    You want a huge backseat in a sedan? Get a maxima or an altima. Those are HUGE backseats. But unless you haul around adults all the time, backseats don't really matter.

    Whoever posted the passat as being too big...doesn't know big. Again...look up the maxima and altima. Those are big sedans.
    But i have questions on your comments.
    How does a rising belt line...I'm assuming you mean the exterior line....how does something on the exterior make it claustrophobic in the interior?! have you sat in the back of the A4? Although VW and audi share a lot of stuff...man, they are completely different beasts.

    I shopped the passat a lot. The A4 wasn't even in consideration cause of this uninformed idea that they were way too much in cost. To my surprise...they didn't differ in cost by that much, and you get so much more with the audi.

    In terms of looks. The new A4 strives for a aggressive yet elegant/classy look and I think it's hit the mark quite well. The passat also has the elegant/classy look down pat, but lacks in any agressiveness. It has "family car" tattooed all over it. Which isn't a bad thing. My maxima has "wannabe sports sedan" tattooed all over it! :)

    not too sure what your point was in your post merckx but if you're gonna tell me the passat is an overall better car than an A4....warn me...cause i shouldn't laugh out loud here at work.

    and that's MY opinion.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I think that the dealer who told you "NO WAY" was playing a smoke and mirrors game. If you bear with me for a moment, I will explain why…

    A few years ago BC (before children) I subscribed to virtually every car mag available. At the time of the launches of the previous A4 (1996) and current A6 (1998), I remember that when the new A4 came out, there was much press about its revolutionary platform design. Two years later, the new A6 was launched on a stretched A4 platform, and received similar accolades because the press felt that the second iteration of the successful A4 platform was just as promising in the new A6.

    In the strictest sense, the dealer told you mostly the truth, the new Passat and the new A6 were designed at about the same time, from the same base platform, and I am sure that they share many attributes, however, BOTH the A6 and the Passat hearken back to their ancestor the A4.

    Disclaimer; now that I have children AND no longer have time to read my magazines (all subscriptions have been allowed to laps), my memory may be a little fuzzy on some of the above facts, however, I believe they are basically true.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • VW/Audi has several different underlying "platforms" that their cars are based upon. Both the previous A4 (up to and including 2001) and the current Passat (including 2002) are based on the B5 platform - smallish car, fifth generation since the VW Fox. The Passat is indeed a slightly stretched version of this platform and thus a little larger than it's A4 sibling. Note that even if the basic platforms are the same, there is still a lot of room for differentiating models. Case in point, VW redesigned the Passat mid 2001 and claimed that there were around 2500 new parts and changes.

    IIRC, the 2002 A4 is a new design, based on the B6 platform. I don't know when or if VW will be adopting the new platform.

    I don't believe that the B5/Passat bears any relation at all to the A6.

    Rick
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Particularly, the engine oil fill capacity on the A4's in the user's manual is wrong. It's 3.7qt, instead of 4.3qt.


    http://cory.charltonfamily.org/gti/vwtechcontent/audipdf/a000102.pdf


    Enjoy.


    Billy

  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    This is definately a trend-I assume it gives the car higher rear haunches-look at the new Mercedes C coupe. This serves to make the rear side window rather shallow-it gets nigh on chin-level on the A4. I can only say that this upright sitting 6 footer can easily sit behind his seat in the Passat-on the A4-no way. Try it.
  • i'm also a 6 footer and i've sat in the back seat of the A4. It's not too bad. i can't sit straight up, but i don't sit straight up while driving most of the time. Besides....why are YOU in the backseat.
    I dealt with this dilemma with my last car. I was so hung up on having back seat room. I bought a maxima cause it had a huge rear seat ..among other things.
    However, what I've found, me...as the driver or at worst, the passenger...i couldn't care too much about the back seats comfor or space. I don't ever sit back there.
    The passat is...more boxier than the A4..and yes..the A4 has the upward waistline that makes the rear window a bit smaller and the celing swwops down so head room is sacrificed.
    Ever sit in the back seat of an Acura TL? sucks.

    Anyway...what should matter is how you feel sitting in the DRIVER'S seat of the A4. It's considerably differnt than the passat.
  • The platform debate is, indeed, a confusing one and, I've found, often confusing to even Audi sales people. My understanding is closest to what Rick described:

    B5 Platform: first generation A4 and current generation Passat

    B6 Platform: current (new) A4

    C5 Platform: current generation A6

    The current C5 platform (A6) developed subsequent to the B5 --therefore, as Shipo explained, integrating some of the B5's technology-- in theory, actually evolved more from the old C4 platform (Audi 100). So therefore, it is my understanding (and my understanding only) that the Passat is based more on the A4 (sharing the same platform as the "old" A4) than the A6.

    And speaking of huge rear seats, has anyone looked at the back seats of the Toyota Avalon? Wow! ...now that's what I'd call a huge rear seating area!

    Billy-- Now that's what I was trying to post 5 months ago! I have that TSB on my hard drive but didn't know how to post it here. I think they've got it corrected in the 2002 manual, however ...I think. Thanx for posting it. (Billy's talking about the 1.8T engine, of course)

    --'rocco
  • aegus1aegus1 Posts: 29
    As a Maxima (2 platforms back) and A4 (1 platform back) owner, I can understand the slight claustraphobic feeling in the driver's seat. A raised beltline as a styling cue diminishes the greenhouse (unless you're in an SUV with big roof syndrome). I had the same sort of feeling when I test drove the M-coupe. It's different, you get used to it. I would bet that it's marginally safer. Metal slows down an object better than glass.

    I think my Avant probably beats the sedan for rear headroom (again previous platform). And yup those Maximas have big back seats. Friends used to give me grief about getting in and out of my Explorer Sport (2dr). No one ever complained in the Maxima. Now I'll just tell them to find another ride if their not happy.

    -Barry
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Talk about vehicle legroom, few mid-sized cars come even close to the previous generation Passat (mine was a 1995). As a basis of comparison look at the following cars:

    FLR / RLR = Ttl
    45.1 / 37.0 = 82.1 – 1994 – 1997 Passat
    41.4 / 35.3 = 76.7 – 1998 – 2002 Passat
    41.4 / 34.4 = 75.8 – 1999 – 2002 3-Series (Sedan)
    41.3 / 33.4 = 74.7 – 1996 – 2001 A4
    41.3 / 37.3 = 78.6 – 1998 – 2002 A6
    41.7 / 40.1 = 81.8 – 2002 – 2002 Avalon
    41.3 / 36.1 = 77.4 – 1996 – 2002 E-Class
    44.8 / 36.2 = 81.0 – 2002 – 2002 Nissan Maxima
    42.6 / 41.1 = 83.7 – 2002 – 2002 Lincoln Town Car

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • I am considering purchase the 1.8TQuat and would like advise on the following.
    Are they reliable.
    Are Audi still including the servicing if not how do the servicing costs compare to Honda, Toyota etc.
    Do they depreciate more than Accords & Camry's
    All help appreciated.
  • Roger-- Well, maybe not quite as reliable as the Accord and Camry but more reliable than the average car. Audi still does offer free maintenance/servicing for 4 years/50,000 miles, whichever comes first. Accoring to Consumer Reports, depreciation ratings (retained value) for the A4 is "above average," for the Accord "above average" and for the Camry "average." Shipo has previously posted (on some board, I can't remember where) a list of cars by their % of retained value after 3 years from ALG ...Shipo?

    Shipo-- Interesting statistics. Although the "old" Passat has a generous amount of leg room in the front, its rear leg room measurements aren't correspondingly as impressive. And how did the Lincoln Town Car fit into that category? ...wouldn't the LS be a better comparison? --or was it included just to show how the others really compare to a "big" car? *heh*

    Barry-- *hah* ...that's tellin' them!

    --'rocco
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, unless I miss my guess, the rear seat legroom measurements are taken with the front seat all of the way back to the rear stops. I am only 5'8" (although fairly long of leg for that height) and with the front seat set for me, the back seat legroom in my Passat was HUGH, large enough for my business partner who is 6’3” with knee room to spare. Given that I had almost 7” of front seat rearward travel remaining on my Passat, that equates to over 43" of leg room in the back seat! Truly prodigious for a mid sized car.

    I put the Lincoln Town Car in there as a point of comparison; I never meant to imply that it was of the same class of the other cars. FWIW, the LS and the X-Type have the following numbers:

    FLR / RLR = TTL
    42.8 / 37.4 = 80.2 – 2002 Lincoln LS
    42.4 / 34.4 = 76.8 – 2002 Jaguar X-Type

    Lease residual values for a 3 year lease @ 15,000 miles per year are as follows:
    54% - 2002 A4 1.8t Quattro
    52% - 2002 Accord LX (4 cylinder)
    48% - 2002 Camry LE (4 cylinder)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • aegus1aegus1 Posts: 29
    So what mileage are you at? As I said a few posts back, I'm at about 3200. A pinched nerve in the back had me down for a while. I couldn't even go out and polish my car. The reason I ask, I thought we actually had roughly about the same mileage. I've already had to put a quart in. I've heard some cars might use oil during break-in, but I've never owned one before. My Explorer needed topping up, but that was 30,000 miles after break-in.

    I don't think I've heard anyone here mention needing oil. I now have a quart of Mobil 1 5W-30 in the back. I'm also watching it alot closer. The other weird thing, it seems to read higher soon after shutoff rather than later (not hours). I always thought later would just mean more oil had returned to the sump. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

    Oh and I just got one of those "Wow look at that"s tonight. I had used my 12V air compressor to bring my tire pressure up to spec last night and left the lighter flipped up. Low and behold there was this beautiful, bright orangish red circle glowing back at me when I turned the car on. As you already guessed I don't smoke. I just thought it looked pretty neat.

    -Barry
  • We are in the process of looking for an A4 at some of the dealers in the area. We are interested in the Goodwood Green color. One dealer has one in stock but it has the Sport package and doesn't have the Bose speaker. My opinion on Bose is that it does sound better than the standard option but I was wondering what people who actually have the standard set up think. Also, someone told me that the sport package would detract from the quattro effect (i.e. not as good in the snow). I am looking for input from anyone that has the sport package on a Quattro. Thanks for your help.
  • Barry-- Well... *hides* I have just over 2,000. I had the oil changed at 1,750 by the dealer under the 6 months/5,000 miles, whichever comes first, service interval. So, what you are asking really doesn't apply to me in that I've only had the new oil in there for a little more than 300 miles and I just checked it and it reads exactly as it did right after the dealer service. It's funny that you asked because I just got through reading an old article (post) over at AudiWorld from someone that had the low oil light come on in his car with 2,700 miles on it. Someone responded: "Sometimes new engines will consume some oil...don't worry, once the engine is broken in a little more, it shouldn't consume so much oil. By 5-10K miles your oil consumption should drop to almost nothing. In the time being, check the oil level religiously, and keep a spare quart in the trunk." ...here's the URL for the thread --you can read the other responses: http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/622216.phtml

    Yeah, that's strange how you get a higher reading immediately after shutting down ...I don't know about that. I usually check mine cold.

    And it's also funny about your reaction to the cigartette lighter! ...I had the same reaction --I've keep mine in the flipped up position just to impress people at night! *lol*

    Shipo-- Thanx for posting those residuals! ...interesting and reassuring.

    Paul-- The probable reason you've heard that is mainly because of the high-performance tires that come with the sport package ...they're awful in the ice and snow --but the sport package itself doesn't really have that much of an adverse effect on the way the car handles in snow. So if you opt for the sport package and are worried about snow, just get yourself some tires with decent traction capabilities that you can use during the winter season.

    --'rocco
  • I say, yes on Sport package and I don't know on Bose -- I think (as in I have never compared them back-to-back) the Bose sounds better, even though I think it is a bit over priced. I have the Bose, my wife has the Bose and all the people I know with Audi's have the Bose -- I guess this means the dealer is good at sales (and most people I know special order their Audis -- check that -- ALL the people I know special order their Audis). I am probably not a reliable source of information on the sound system issue that is.

    The sport package, as far as I can tell, could only cause snow related problems due to the Ultra High Performance Summer tires that come with it -- it seems to me, however, this should be a good thing, most of the time -- if you really live where snow is an issue, it would seem that even the standard tires would be "just barely ok." I would, under such circumstances, have a set of snow tires (and possibly wheels) -- for the season and for the other three seasons, enjoy the extra performance.
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