Audi A4 2004 and earlier

1pierce · June 2002

I drove three different A4 3.0s, and an A6 3.0. I have the Nissan 3.0 in my '99 Maxima. I would best describe the difference as power in the lower end of the rev range. My Maxima has excellent power in the 2,000-3,000 RPM range. I rarely feel these shifts in normal driving. The Audi always wanted to shift down in this range, and the extra (and sharper) shifting made the power train feel less smooth to me.

Of course, the Audi was not broken in, and the Maxima is a 39,000 mile veteran. Also, the Nissan transmission can be a little lazy to downshift at low RPM. This makes for a smoother ride while cruising around town, but is a little frustrating when trying to drive sportily. If the Nissan engine had less torque, it would have a real problem with this transmission.

In the end, I bought a BMW because the power train felt noticeably superior to my Nissan, and the A4 3.0 did not, despite a significant HP advantage. The 325i and the A4 were so close in my book (and the A4 was superior in more than a few ways), that this comparison to my Maxima was probably the difference in the decision.

1pierce · June 2002

Lets face it,...neither an Audi, BMW, nor a Mercedes Benz will be as reliable as a Nissan, Toyota, or Honda. Just isn't going to happen.

My Maxima has almost 40,000 miles on it in 3-1/2 years, and it has not had one unscheduled maintenance visit. None, zero, nada! No rattles, no noises, no malfunctions. Can't beat that.

jean7of9 · June 2002

Congrats to your 325i. How do you compare the cabin noise level between A4 and 325. I test drove a 330xi today and found it a bit noisy at high RPM.
Jean

zhouguow · June 2002

We bought a used A4 97 1.8T auto 12 months ago from the local dealer Leith Audi in the N.C. Triangle area. It runs fine except 2 minor problems (which were not inexpensive for us to have them fixed).

Last week on my wife's way back, she found the Malfunction indicator light start blinking and the car began to vibrate, the feeling was strong expecially when she stopped before a red light. The owner's manual said that could be due to Emission Control system's problem and 'Catalytic Convertors can be damaged'. We have the car towed to the dealer, but the dealer said the problem disappeared and they were unable to figure out what was wrong.

From the discussion I know that Leith Audi does not have a very good reputation. Can someone give us a help in explaining what could be wrong with the car and if the car's latent problem is not fixed immediately, can we drive on till the problem re-appear? Will that destroy that car?

Thanks,

Xiyu

dl7265 · June 2002

Dont fear, my 1999 323i has been more "reliable" than my old G20 that according to consumer reports is the all time best freaking car ever built. In addition many Japanese parts are more expensive... thats why the Honda and Toyota have the #1 and # stolen cars consistantly every year.

DL

scirocco22 · June 2002

Xiyu-- A blinking MIL could be anything from a faulty Power Output Control Module to a defective throttle-body or throttle angle mis-adjustment. Since all MIL indications relate directly or indirectly to the emmissions controls, you may damage the cat converter if you continue to drive with the light blinking. Destroy the car? ...I don't know but I suppose there's that possibility if the cat converter were to heat up enough to cause a fire. And I'd image that you could also do some damage to the engine if you were to continue to drive with engine vibrating abnormally.

You'd think that the error code would indicate the source of the problem if the dealer ran the diagnostics. I'd have to believe the dealer would have to have an idea where the source of the problem was after running the diagnostics even though they couldn't duplicate the problem. I guess there's nothing you can do but to keep driving until the problem resurfaces but I'd still be nervous until I could determine what exactly was happening.

If you're out of warranty, I'd probably recommend consulting a reputable independent VW/Audi mechanic and have them run the diagostics to see if they can determine the error code which triggered the MIL incident. If you can find such a shop, my experience tells me that repairs might be less expensive than what the dealer will charge. A good independent shop will sometimes spend more time trying to figure out what caused the problem as some dealers techs are under the pressure of time constraints due to dealer's desire to maintain a high profit to time and volume ratio. I realize it's unfair to portray all dealer's service departments in this manner but I've encountered many which focus on high profit/little time type jobs and tend to disregard those that may take time to diagnose properly. If the independent shop determines no error code present then then it may have just been an anomaly and I'd relax and continue to enjoy driving your A4. Good luck.

DL-- You've found that parts for your G20 were more expensive than parts for BMWs? And I always thought that Honda and Toyotas were stolen for parts because there's so many of them and they can be easily re-sold. But it's because they're so expensive? That's interesting. I knew they were more expensive than domestic parts but didn't know that they were more expensive than German parts. Thanks for that information.

--'rocco

nyccarguy · June 2002

you've just put 2 & 2 together. The reason Hondas & Toyotas are stolen for parts is because there are so many of them and the genuine Honda parts are extremely expensive and many of the parts are interchangeable. A 170hp engine from an Acura Integra GSR will drop right into any Civic starting from 1988 to the present. Honda parts are so expensive that even the insurance companies don't want to pay for them. My sister had a 1995 Honda Accord EX that was stolen and stripped. The insurance company wanted to fix the car with non-Honda parts (which don't fit as perfectly) so they claimed the damage was less. Using Honda parts would have cost them a few thousand dollars more. Luckily the adjuster came to her senses and totalled the car. I have to pay extra on the insurance on my 2001 Prelude because I specified that if anything happens to the car, I want Genuine Honda parts to replace it.

And just so I stay on topic, I saw an A4 cabriolet parked in someone's driveway. It was silver with a Black top and the 16" 5 spoke wheels. The car had vehicle maufaturer plates on it. I know who the guy is and he works for the Audi dealership here in the city. Personally I like the sedan better.

dl7265 · June 2002

NYC is right , regarding the value of the japanese parts, i have a "throw down " 1990 Honda the insurance is the SAME as for my 323i. The odd posted battery is equal in price to the trunk mount in my 3er.

we have recovered several civics with the stolen Acura motors btw..

I got a few hail dings on my 3er and i priced a Brand New Hood for the 3er was only $349.00 plus paint and install, a Seville in the body shop for hood was $1149.00, sorry a little off topic but just as a few examples.

On topic:) what model cabrio were you checking out ?

DL

bimmer12 · June 2002

I'm looking into the Audi A4 1.8T as a possible lease option. Essentially, I'm looking for a 1.8T with Quattro, Sport pkg, sunroof, and the bose stereo...Curious if anybody has priced either the A4 1.8T and the 3.0 Quattro for lease prices...What would you suggest is a good deal?
Are there any minor updates for 2003 that are worth waiting for? I would love it if the bottom bumper were color-coated to match the car rather than black!

bjbird2 · June 2002

If it's true that Japanese parts are more expensive, and I'm not sure that's true, at least you probably won't need the parts very often because the cars are so reliable. I'm suprised at the posts here that say I had my headlight replaced, or my car was towed in and the service was wonderful and fast. With a reliable car, you won't need that service, and you won't have to worry about how friendly the service manager is, or if they offer a loaner!

alow13 · June 2002

Hello all, just wanted to thank you all for you comments and help while I shopped for my new car. I should be going in tomorrow to make a deal on the car that I want, and I am very excited. Hopefully I'll be able to hide when I get to the dealership. Once again, thank you all and I'll let you know how it turns out.

A.L.

JBaumgart · June 2002

I didn't know that headlights on Japanese cars never burned out...

I follow a couple of other threads here, one by Lexus and one by Acura, and many of the posts are about various problems, dealer service, etc. Examples are recent Lexus engines developing "sludge" and Acura suspensions experiencing "thuds" and leather seats wearing thin in less than a year.

If you believe J.D. Power & Associates, the Japanese still have the quality edge overall, but the gap has closed considerably during the past few years, with all major car makes showing significant improvement even as cars get ever more complicated. For many people, having the most reliable car possible is not their number one priority, especially when even makes ranked in the middle of the pack are more reliable than most previous generation cars.

usmattlo · June 2002

Hi,

Hi everyone! As i am planning to spend about $30K to get a new European sedan, I am recently researching for all the possibilities. I am interested in the new A4 1.8V CVT, BMW 3-series, and the Passat. However, I always ask myself a question. Why are there more people owning BMW 3-series or VW (no matter Jetta or Passat) than A4? Is there any problem with the new A4? Why are the people choosing the 3-series and VW over the Audi?
I am pleased to hear any comment. Thank you!

dtwleungnyc · June 2002

usmattlo, now this is just my own stupid opinion. And for the record, I am an Audi A6 Avant owner, so take what I post here with a grain of salt.

BMW - The majority of the owners want it for the image, only a selected few get it for what it truely is, a manificent driving machine.

VW - Most are getting into VW for the alternatives. They don't want a camry, accord or civic. They want a car that can handle family duties yet fun to drive. Even though it might costs more than an equivalent Japanese brand.

Audi - In my stupid opinion, this brand right now is the best example of a wolf in sheep's clothing for a car. It might not have the most HP, the best accleration time etc. BUT, when you look at the sum of the whole picture. It will probably gives you the best bang for the buck in terms of performance, luxury, interior fit and finish, when compared to an equivalent BMW, Mercedes, and did I mention the quattro system? 8)

mbnut1 · June 2002

I agree with "My Opinion" above.

djstattic · June 2002

IMO, bmw is a great looking car with great performance and most importantly, it's RELIABLE, unline A4's!!! I've seen so many people who hate their audi's because they jsut brake every time. Ofcourse maybe it's because those people have older models ('96-'97), but from what I've heard and read, Audi doesn't inspire me getting one, although i really like the look.
Do you guys think that I should go for something other than Audi, I was thinking about getting a '96 -'97 with something like 50 K on it.

Thanks,

dtwleungnyc · June 2002

Again, this is just my opinion. If you want a reliable USED German car, go with a Mercedes. May not be cheaper in terms of parts, but will be easier to work with. Want proof? Just pop the hood and look at the engine bay, everything is right there for you to work on. In terms of BMW's reliability when compared to Audi, I don't think they are that far ahead. Especially when you compared model years 98 and later.

scirocco22 · June 2002

I love the brakes on my Audi ...so far, they've stopped the car everytime I've asked them to! I like brakes that stop the car "every time." *tongue in cheek*

But seriously, most of the Audi owners participating on this board will probably recommend an Audi. There are some interesting discussions on the sedans vs sedans forum you might be interested in participating: Click Here

--'rocco

usmattlo · June 2002

Thanks very much for all your responses. I guess it's really difficult for me to choose among those you mentioned above. The problem is that my dad would just allow me to spend on the NEW car the most(including tax, and i will give full payment)$32K. Preferrably, I would choose a European car of a more sporty look, such as Passat and A4. I am not looking for any specific features but I would prefer to better acceleration engine. Do you guys think I could get a 325i with such amount of money?? Indeed, i am already glad with an A4 already. Oh, i would also want to know how big is the difference regarding to the insurance fee between A4, 325i, and Passat??Thanks alot!

dtwleungnyc · June 2002

When I went shopping couple months ago, I found an equally equipped BMW to be more expensive than an similar equipped Audi. This is for the New York City area. Plus, the only BMW 3 series that has all wheel drive is the 325XI? Which really feels like an afterthought instead of designed from the ground up when compared to the Audi's quattro system. The 5 series didn't have AWD, you will need to move up to the X5 to get AWD, but the price gets ridiculous IMHO.

In terms of insurance costs, for New York City at least. BMW costs most, then Audi and VW. But the difference between Audi and VW wasn't that great. Check with your insurance agent to be sure.

Again, this is just my stupid opinion, I still think Audi will give you the best bang for the buck. Also, this is just my observation. If you are going for the 1.8T engine in the Audi, seriously drive the Passat first then the A4. If you feel the Passat is sporty enough for you, you could save a few bucks over the Audi. The Audi will have better trim and finish, but at a price.

But most important of all, drive and buy what YOU like. Good luck.

nyccarguy · June 2002

$32K is a good price range. Definitely the Audi A4 1.8T with Quattro, 5 speed manual transmission, Sport Package, Sunroof, Bose Radio, and heated seats. Definitely a great bang for the buck.

You could get a BMW 325i with a 5 speed manual, leatherette, Sunroof, Sport Package, & heated seats for a comparable price. If you're willing to travel to Germany to take European Delivery of the BMW it will come out to be even more competitively priced.

The Passat is a nice car too, but you can't get a V6 4Motion with a manual transmission or split folding rear seats.

But definitely most important of all is to take a test drive and buy what you like the best.

markcincinnati · June 2002

I plan to memorize this from the mentioned post:

" [Audi] It will probably gives you the best bang for the buck in terms of performance, luxury, interior fit and finish, when compared to an equivalent BMW, Mercedes, and did I mention the quattro system?"

Then I must add my $.02 -- there is no evidence (I am speaking of "anecdotal" evidence) that BMW's are particularly (more) reliable machines when compared to Audi's -- at least none from the people I know who have them. Now, having said that, even the folks I know with the least reliable Bimmers love them (overall).

Relative to some of the Toyotal and Honda reliability love stories that I am so sick of hearing, I know of no German (or European for that matter) brand that even comes close to some of the Japanese cars -- at least to hear their owners.

Funny, when I hear or read comments from European (mostly German) car owner/drivers, I hear about the "joy of driving" (kind of thing), and mostly when I hear from the Japanese car owner/drivers I hear about their reliability.

German car drivers talk about the "soul of the machine" and other fanciful and passionate DRIVING comments.

Japanese car drivers talk about how little service their cars need.

Let's see, what would happen if Audi (to name one) would engineer their cars in Germany and build them in Japan? Nirvana? Hell, who knows? Who cares, it won't happen.

On the what to get used issue. . .

I bought a used (it had 24K miles on it) 1987 Audi 5000 CS turbo quattro in 1989 -- apart from the fact that I blew the tweeters out of the rear door speakers playing "Little Creatures" by Talking Heads, this was one of THE best cars I have ever had, new or used, from any company. Most of the very few problems I had with this car were minor -- but, in the spirit of full disclosure, I traded the car in 26K miles later on -- what else -- another Audi.

Why this is perhaps relevant. . .

So, while a used Merc may or may not be the "best" used car choice, I can't justify paying the extra premium for a used car, when a brand new car is virtually always cheaper to lease (on a per month basis) than a used car.

Now, of course if you are looking at a 4 or 5 year old car -- and can pay cash -- well, then a used car is less money in acquisition cost -- but tco is "all up to chance."

no3on · June 2002

Hello all. I ordered a 3.0QMS Avant about three months ago and was told by the dealer that it would probably be here by the end of this month. But after reading that some orders have been canceled and the customers told that they have to wait until August/September for an 03 model I called to check on my order. I was told that my car was on the boat and to expect it by the middle of July and that it was made just before the cut off. I then asked for the VIN # which was not given to me right away, as a matter of fact they didn't give it to me until almost the end of the day. Is there a way to check the VIN # to make sure that it belongs to what I ordered so I will know if I am being bull s-----d or not.

JBaumgart · June 2002

I would be suspicious if you were told that your car is on the boat but that you would not get it until the middle of July. One or the other is probably off. But generally speaking if you have a VIN the car should belong to you. I would check the status of the car regularly with the dealer to follow its progress. If you visit the dealership in person I believe they should be able to show you some written evidence of the exact status of your order.

no3on · June 2002

Thank you, I will do that.

alow13 · June 2002

Hi, I just took delivery of my A4 this morning and I couldn't be happier with my decision. I have been out drivin all day. These are fantastic cars, and I feel like it was money well spent. No doubt I'll have some more good things to say after I've had the car for few days.

A.L.

usmattlo · June 2002

Hi all,

I am going to get an A4 or a Passat in the coming Sept. Since I went to the VW dealer today and knew that they have new VW coming out in July/August, I would like to know if the new Audi A4 is coming out at the same time or about the same time. Thanks!

peeete · June 2002

The new A4 is the 2002 model. Im picking up my new Avant tomorrow!

markcincinnati · June 2002

For the apples and apples (sort of) comparison between the Audi and the VW, my friend and I drove examples of each brand that were priced within a percentage of each other (before any discount) and also looked the the per month lease cost and the estimated per year service costs.

We ended up testing a Passat GLX w/4motion and an Audi A4 1.8T with every option except auto transmission and metallic paint. The MSRP's were very close -- my friend bought the Audi. The only thing that he noted was that the Passat should have been offered with a manual and that the Audi should have had a better stereo system option.

Today, an A4 3.0 would price comparably to a Passat W8. Should be interesting.

tsuoying · June 2002

Hi everyone, I'd like to pick your brains and experience on the following issue. I'm considering purchasing a 98 A4 2.8 Quattro with manual transmission and the sports package (suspension). Everything was fabulous about the car but when test driving it, I thought the tachometer needle was reading too high. Cruising at about 60 mph on a level road on 5th gear, the needle was at 4200 - 4500 rpm. And when doing moderate acceleration from dead stop, the needle hit almost the end of the red zone. Is that normal?? I can almost accept the red zone at low gears but 4500 rpm at 60 mph with 5th gear? What would it do at much higher speeds? Does the Quattro somehow adjusts for the higher speeds without linearly upping the rpm?

Do you A4 owners observe this to be normal? I'm not expert with transmissions or engines but the engine did not sound overly worked at those rpms. I thought maybe it's just the meter and everything is amplified by 30% or something. Is that possible? Or is what I described perfectly normal? Any help you nice folks can provide would be great! Thanks!

paul
P.S. please email to pthuang@aol.com if you could also...

marleybarr · June 2002

Mark,
Have you driven the VW 8 yet? I'm also curious what your opinion was of the interior "fit and finish" comparison of the Passat and the Audi A4?
Lastly, have you ever experienced a "jerk" in the tip transmission? Sometimes on the 2.7T, at slow speeds, say less than 40, selector in "D",I will then step on the throttle to some degree, occasionally I will feel a "jerk" or "thump", for better lack of a word,as the Audi moves forward. No hesitation is experienced, just sort of a "movement" as I give it a little gas, and then everything is normal as the car is driven! It just feels like 2 gears "thumping" at one moment just as you start to go faster. Doesn't happen often, just once in a while.
Thanks again in advance-Max.

markcincinnati · June 2002

I test drove a stick shift allroad today (if interested my remarks are on the A6 board). I have been to the VW dealer twice and their W8 inventory is now down to 1 and it always seems to be out on a test drive. The W8 6spd manual sport really sounds good (December?).

I last drove a Passat GLX 4Motion in 2001, sat in several of them, rode in a couple in Germany (they were taxis).

I really like everything about the W8 except the wheels and for the money, that would be a small item. I would NOT buy/lease a W8 tip -- but this is why I am getting an allroad instead of an S6 Avant or another 4.2 -- I want a stick shift!

Anyway, no problems or anomalies with my tip transmissions (I have had three of them). I don't hate them, I just don't really care for them -- the new D & S mode version seems a lot better (but then again I have only driven an A6 3.0 with this transmission). The last time I had any problems with an Audi transmission was my 1997 A8 with the 5spd non tip -- it would shift "violently" from 5th to 3rd or 2nd if I had been driving at freeway speeds for a long period of time, as if some evil computer programmer had made the thing think I needed to get aggressive REALLY fast when I depressed the accelerator just a little harder than was required to maintain a steady 65mph or so.

So, all these posts pertaining to tip shift, clunk, programming, hesitation problems, etc -- I am sure are real, but I have never had such experiences with my Audis.... My main issue with the last couple of A6's, as y'all probably know, has been with the brakes and I again report with just south of 30K miles on the car, the last "fix" has stuck!

I think what you are talking about is generally termed "drive line lash" -- and it happens (or can) to cars with manual transmissions too. But the problems discussed on the edmunds boards seem to be mostly tip issues.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

dunless · June 2002

I picked up my 2002 A4 a week ago ( 1.8T with Tip) and so far love it. I have never received as many compliments on any new car I have owned.

Unfortunately, yesterday was the first day since I picked it up that we saw sun. Now, my only complaint is that there are no open bins or shelves or compartments to put my sunglasses in. I wish the ashtray was an option that allowed it to be removed and a lined tray could be added.

I haven't seen anyone mention it, but I needed to get a large box into the back seat and really appreciated the fact that the doors open a full 90 degrees.

All of your comments helped in my decision, thanks. I gave up an SUV but wanted to keep the AWD for Boston winters.

Dunless

nyccarguy · June 2002

While walking to the gym yesterday evening, a silver A4 1.8T Avant with Sports Package really caught my eye. I didn't realize the Avant Sport Package comes with essentially the same Avus Style wheels as are on the S4, S6, & S8. Very pretty car! Long live the wagon!

nyccarguy · June 2002

Thank you for coming to your senses and giving up your SUV!

alow13 · June 2002

I think that the bins under the front seats would be great for storing sunglasses and other small items.

A.L.

crashton6 · June 2002

My sunglasses live in the drawer under the seat. A good alternate would be in the map pocket on the door. I removed the cupholder in the armrest. Just pull up the rubber on the bottom of the holder. There you will see two screw heads, just turn them until they click then pull the holder out. Now there's room for glasses in there too. I took out the ashtray & lined the inside with some black stick on felt. I just removed the inner part of the ashtry. Now my parking meter change lives there. Hope some of this helps.

Chuck

applecrumble · June 2002

Hi,

I just picked up my new A4 about 3 weeks ago. I recently noticed a noise coming out from the wheels everytime I start my car and drive off. It sounded like a scratching sound underneath the car and I can feel a vibration in both the break pedal and/or the accelerator whenever that happens. Has any other new A4 owner experienced this noise? My dealership said it didn't happen when they were checking it over (as usual).

crashton6 · June 2002

I had a Toyota that used to do the same thing after it sat out on a damp night. Never did narrow the cause down, but I believe it was rust forming on the brake rotors overnight. It always went away after a stop or two. My A4 has never done this yet.

nyccarguy · June 2002

My friend has an A4 3.0Q with Leather/6-speed/SP, & a bunch of other goodies. The car is fairly well broken in with 12,000 miles (since November) and I had a chance to drive it last night. Here's what I thought:

The Steering is well weighted (especially compared to the Lincoln Navigator-esq steering on my Mom's A6 3.0Q). The ride and handling are sporty, but not too rough. The 3.0L engine is marvelous. The car acclererates strong whether you're leisurley passing someone on the highway or you do a 6th to 4th downshift (WOW BTW)! I love the interior. It is such an inviting car to drive at night. The car is easy to launch and even was OK in heavy traffic. You can slump along in 2nd gear in stop & go traffic (another credit to the wonderful engine).

My one gripe with the car would have to be the stick shift itself. It is very "springy" and always wants to return to the center of the "HH." Shifting seemed almost imprecise (especially compared to my Prelude).

Great car!

tim_hooligan · June 2002

When are the tires scheduled for rotation? Edmunds states every 5,000 miles. Is this included in the free maint.? I got my 10,000 mile checkup and the tires were not rotated. I have the sport tires too, which wear down quickly.

thanks!

kbailey24 · June 2002

Is the maintenance on the Audi A4 expensive like it is on the BMW's?

markcincinnati · June 2002

Maint is free for 50,000miles or 4years.

I think you get "one" free tire rotation on new Audis. You can basically have it whenever you like, but I think you get it automatically at 10,000 miles if you don't have it sooner.

Generally, though you can have two "free" rotations due to balance needs, alignment needs or tie rod end needs. Then it is time for new tires (if you have the sport package).

The tires on the A4 with sport package will go "within spec" about 20,000 miles -- but not that long if you have been aggressive. My wife's TT tires were gone at 11,000 miles -- Audi "threw in" $400 toward a new set which cost on tirerack $800+shipping.

My A6's and my A8 had the summer aggressive 17" ex$pen$ive tires from Dunlop or Goodyear or Pirelli -- maximum use of these tires in Cincinnati was 20K miles. I have tried all seasons, which last longer (at these sizes though only about 30K miles and the performance is way below the HP tires).

So get your tires rotated at 5,000 and 12,500 "for free" and start saving for the replacements, cause you'll probably need them not too long thereafter.

lauk0dg · June 2002

Hey gang.....I just came back from a business trip to Shanghai, China and Hong Kong.....all I can see are VW's and Audi's.....VW has 2 plants there and I read somewhere saying they have over 50% market share there.....at least all cabs and most midsize cars are VW's. Oh yeah, also saw a lot of A6's and some A4's.....their A6's are stretched about 6 inches so it's more of a chauffeur-driven car than self-driven. Their Audi's are also manufactured in China.

Oh, by the way, those S3's are making me crazy. AoA, please import them ASAP. And why would Hong Kong need RS4's when the drivers can't even utilize one third of its engine power?

Oh and "touch wood", my A4 started up with no problems after 3 weeks of idling in the garage.

Billy

1pierce · June 2002

usmattlo: I'll give you the quick smart*** answer why people buy the German cars they do. This is, of course, just MHO:

BMW: People buy BMW's because they are flat out the best performers of the group. Mechanically, technologically, (AWD excepted) the BMW is just plain sportier (and better). I did a seat of the pants comparo of several 325's and A4's of different configurations, and despite the fact that I WANTED the A4 to be a better performer, it just wasn't. For some, there is an almost mystical quality to these cars. You either feel it or you don't.

Mercedes Benz: Unless you're talking exotic sports car, like Porsche or some Italian make, nothing has as much prestige value in the USA as an MB. I don't consider this debatable. To some people, the prestige value is everything. And, on average, the MB's ride better than Audis and BMWs and have a more "luxury feel".

VW: Price, period. Least expensive German car. Fully loaded for around $30,000 ($32,000 for V6 w/AWD). Just can't touch it if you want German feel on a budget. My brother (who owns a 323i), refers to these as "Audi knock-offs". These cars are noticeably less sporty in terms of performance (to me, at least) than BMW or Audi. Also, almost all VW owners have Audi envy. I know at least 4 Passat owners. They love their cars, but not one of them would turn down a trade for an equally equipped Audi at the same price.

Audi: Best bang for the buck. Cheaper than an MB or BMW, better equipped and more sporty/luxurious than a VW. Incomparable design and quality of materials. Many thoughtful details. Probably the smartest German car buy. Its a wonder they don't sell more of them.

BTW, I bought a 325i. It came down to the very end, and I sweat blood over the decision. All of the senses said A4. The heart just pounded faster when I was in the 325i. Hard to explain beyond that, other than I felt the mystical quality.

1pierce · June 2002

The 330 engine is significantly louder than the 325 engine. I was comparing 325's to the A4 3.0. I found interior noise from the engine to be the same. Also, I found road and wind noise from the A4 to be slightly less than the 325i. The BMW was still very quiet. Its just that noise isolation was one of the A4's strengths.

Incidentally, I compared the smaller BMW engine to the bigger A4 engine, and still picked the 325i, which seemed more responsive, smoother, and eager to run. I didn't drive a 330i, because I couldn't afford one, and didn't want to color my opinion of the 325i. My feeling is that a 330i would probably blow the A4 3.0 away in real world driving.

BTW, I found the 1.8T engine to be noticeably noisier than either the 325i or the A4 3.0.

andys120 · June 2002

Seems odd considering that turbos tend to
"muffle" exhaust noise. At least they do on
racing cars as anyone who'se heard a 917/30 run with a McLaren M8 could tell you.

bluetrane · June 2002

The noise and brake pedal vibration that you are referring to is attributed to the ABS system initializing (at least, that's what the gear-heads on AudiWorld say). It's not a problem.

applecrumble · June 2002

Thanks bluetrane and crashton6. I took it into the dealership the other day and have the senior mechanic test drove the car with me. He experienced what I was referring to and said that it is a normal sound. He explained that Audi utilizes the 'drive by wire' technology and it was the motor doing its stuff which generate that sound. Now, I feel better but wished that it was explained to me when I first took delivery of the car.

usmattlo · June 2002

Thanks so much for all your advice. But there is one pretty significant problem with the OLD A4 (probably the new A4 too) that troubles me alot. I have heard quite alot of service or maintenance problem dealing with dealing with it. Contrarily, I did not see much complaint on the other brands such as the Passat, BMW, Lexus, which i am also considering to buy too. I wonder if it's true that, comparably, the Audi A4 has more service problem hidden in it although indisputably it has fabulous design in both exterior and interior design. Please feel free to give comment on it. Thanks!

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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