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Mazda 626

18911131440

Comments

  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    Could we bring back the 1993-1997 626? Unfortunately, I think Mazda made a mistake by going to the larger, softer, plusher, kinder 626 we have seen since '98. I liked the smaller, sportier, lighter 626. Oh, and can we have the MPS concept version from Europe? I remember something about all-wheel drive and a blown 2.5L with something like 275 horses galloping through a 6-spd manual transmission... Please.... :-)
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    why the Capella never made it to these shores. With the 2.5L(I know, it's a 2.0L V-6) and a much lighter, tighter car, the Altima would be dead in its tracks. Must have had something to do with the fact that they were confined to build it with parts and labor from Detroit(no hard feelings).

    As long as we are dreaming, how about a Millenia 2.3L in a 626? Turn the boost up a hair, add a 6spd and stiffen the ride up. Hmmm, I may have some spare parts around here, anybody have a donor car?

    :)
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    I was thinking along the lines of going back to Mazda's roots in the U.S. and having a 626 Type R or Protege Type R with the 13B or 20B motors in them. That'll bring some definite Zoom to the line-up. There's nothing like humming along at 10,000rpm... I miss my RX-7... Not very practical, but it was a blast to drive! Any word on an RX-5 Miata? We know the 13B fits in it, so why not?
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    I know it wouldn't make much sense in the new Ford global family, but have there been any talks of resurrecting the Amati nameplate or bringing the Eunos line to the US?
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Or I meant Amati.

    It's dead as dead goes. Mazda learned the hard way in 1993/94 that they just aren't big enough to support 2 sales channels.

    Rotaries(eyes light up):
    I talked to an engineer one time who worked on a project to put a 13B in a Prote. His English wasn't the best, but a grin like that crosses all borders. :)

    Don't expect the rotary in anything here but the coming(fingers crossed) RX-8.
  • windowphobe6windowphobe6 Member Posts: 765
    Generally, what was taken away from the suspension in the '98 redesign was restored for 2000; there's still the matter of the extra 200 lb or so (and about 2 mpg, in my case), but I don't think I lost anything in tossability by switching from a '93 to a Double-Ought. The same Major Annoyance Zipping Down Alleyways stunts I used to pull, I still can.
  • qz2000qz2000 Member Posts: 2
    I saw a Mazda 626 here. 1997, LX, leather seat, ABS, moonroof, 37,000 miles ... Dealer asks $11,000 first and now decreased to $10,000.
    But I do not how reliable for this year's 626? And what is the reasonable price for this car?
  • theparallaxtheparallax Member Posts: 361
    The new Tribute may be on a Mazda platform, but the car seems to have a lot of Ford content in it. Just look at the interior - there is NO WAY that thing is a real Mazda. The switchgear is Ford, the way the door closes is Ford, the plastics used inside is Ford, the powertrain is Ford, and I can go on and on.

    The new MPV has only had 2 recalls if I can recall. One was a voluntary bumper recall after IIHS tested the 5MPH bumpers on the van, and another was the incorrect sticker in the door jamb.

    Take a look at the MPV, then look at the Tribute. You will see a world's difference in the way everything is put together. The interior on the Tribute screams 'cheap' and 'tinny' compared to the MPV's interior.
  • qz2000qz2000 Member Posts: 2
    I forgot to mention above it is auto. But after reading the posts, I was scared. I checked the carfax and it was first registered as lease from 97/06/01 to 00/06/01. Then it was auctioned. So I do not whether I still have manufacturer warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 626/MX6/Probe were all based on a Mazda chassis, engine, and transmission. Well, except the lame CD4E automatic, which is the only Ford component, and proves my point!

    I don't mind Ford using Mazda parts and engineering, but the other way around bugs me. Mazda is exorcising any and all character from its cars.

    The Tribute uses a Ford engine and trans. Go to the Tribute boards and read up on the troubles their community leader has had with his.

    I just want Mazda to remain Mazda. Sharing some parts is probably inevitable, but I think their effort with the MPV was far better than with the Tribute (and preliminary reliability ratings agree).

    -juice
  • windowphobe6windowphobe6 Member Posts: 765
    The factory warranty on any '97 has almost certainly expired by now; it's three years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. If there's an extended warranty involved, you'll have to check with the issuer thereof.

    I like the '97s, but at that point, only some of the CD4E transmission modifications were in place, so I have a certain amount of squeamishness about the I4-auto combination.

    $10,000 seems reasonable if it's in tip-top shape. (Edmunds.com has a nice little calculator in its used-car listings into which you can plug all the variables.)
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    You have forgotten a very early recall in the MPV that was quite serious! The fuel injectors were leaking fuel. What sit's below the fuel injectors? Oh, a nice, hot exhaust manifold. We thought it was the end of the MPV, especially for this type of problem at product launch. How does it sell today? Quite well, I'm happy to say.

    The difference in the vehicles boils down to where they were built/assembled.

    Close the doors on the Protege, Millenia, and MPV. They all have the same near-silent, solid thunk to them. No rattles or latch noise.

    Now close the doors on the 626, Tribute, and B-Series. They all have the same Ford-type ka-thunk-ka. There's some rattle of the door glass and you can hear the latch engage in its two latch levels.

    The first group is assembled in Japan. The second group is assembled in the U.S. Throughout those vehicles, there is a definite difference in build quality... from the body panels, to the paint, to the interiors.
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    I have nothing against vehicles built/assembled in the U.S. I'm just pointing out the differences. Funny this is, the Ford Focus has amazing quality and refinement to it. Why Ford can't do that with their more expensive models is beyond me. But I would still buy a Tribute, B-Series, or 626 in a heartbeat. (OK, I lied. I would buy a 626 4-cyl 5-spd, or any V6 model, but NOT the 4-cyl auto... I don't like tow trucks).
  • dayokayodedayokayode Member Posts: 31
    Apart from the fact that they are sold in different markets, is there a difference between the Mondeo and Contour in terms of reliability, performance and engines? Also, why was the Contour recently discontinued in the US?

    The Edmunds review of the 626 seems to suggest that the Contour was a better car than the 626 in terms of handling, ride etc. Is this true?
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    The recall you mentioned on the MPV had to do with the wrong intake manifold that was installed on the engine here, BEFORE it went to Japan for vehicle assembly. That recall affected a relatively small number of vehicles and there were very few that were retailed with that problem.

    :)
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Having driven a 626 for a couple of years and then renting a Contour while on business, I can say that there is no comparison. The Contour felt like any other Ford while the 626 has that subtle Mazdaness(new word).

    :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Focus' reliability isn't up to par, though. It has lower ratings than the Mazda-based Escort it replaced.

    Contour was too small for US tastes. Other markets tend to prefer small, fuel efficient cars. Despite kind reviews from the press, it sold like freezers in Alaska.

    The Focus is roomier, and cheaper to boot. That's why it's succeeded where the Contour failed. I think Ford watered down the handling far less than they did in the US market Contour, also.

    Didn't Mazda have a tag line earlier, "It just feels right"? I think they called it Kansei (SP?) engineering.

    -juice
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    The Contour they mention in that review is the Contour SVT. Basically, it's a suped-up Contour by the same group (Ford's Special Vehicle Team, SVT) who customized the Mustang Cobra and the F-150 Lightning, and the soon-to-be-released Focus SVT. The Contour SVT was a V6 Contour SE with enhancements to the suspension, brakes, engine, transmission, exhaust, and wheels. I drove one. Very impressive! Nice smooth ride with super-flat cornering and a 200hp V6 that just would not quit! And that exhaust sound... you'd think you were driving a Mustang Cobra... Oh, but the body and interior... ugly as sin... and cheap materials... those perforated Navy blue leather seats were just plain awful...

    However... My choice of vehicle before buying my Protege ES was the Contour SE V6 5-spd. That was a total disappointment. It drives nothing like the Mazda's do... very Fordish. I even drove the Mustang GT 5-spd. Again, big disappointment. It's like driving a really cramped Taurus with a V8. It had a really stiff ride but couldn't corner to save your life and it had a turning circle of a Boeing 747. I really wanted a Miata, but I do require a trunk... Of course, I could buy a used '94 and add the supercharger... hmmmm. I've gotta run... www.autotrader.com
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, get a 93. The 1.6l has far more mods available, and cheaper too. Turbo kit group buys for $1080, can't beat it.

    Though it's fun as-is, in stock form.

    Then just get a trailer. Seriously, they sell a Class I hitch for them that can support a 200 lb tongue weight and a 1000 lb trailer!

    -juice
  • windowphobe6windowphobe6 Member Posts: 765
    My old '93, despite nearly 90,000 miles, exhibited no untoward noises when a door was closed, and neither does my '00. The closest thing to tinniness on my current 626 is the sound of the trunk latch, which is about an octave too high to be melodious. ;)
  • dayokayodedayokayode Member Posts: 31
    Reechoing the points made about the 'bloated' size of the 626, I'm not sure what it is about the North American car market that screams 'big', 'boring' and 'bloated'. In the interest of fairness, the 626 is more attractive than some of the other more popular mid-size sedans, but given Mazda's heritage, we would expect an outer shell that's even more distinguished looking than we currently have.


    I found the 626 in the following and other markets more compact, attractive and Infiniti (G-20) like:


    1. http://www.mazda.co.uk/model_range.asp?car_id=10


    2. http://www.mazda.nl/modellen/626hatchback/frame_home_NS4.html


    3. http://www.mazda.co.za/frame_net.htm


    Why can't Mazda have a single design for all their markets, like they do for the MPV and the Tribute? Also, why do American consumers have limited engine and style choices? Having the 626 in a Hatchback (or coupe) or Saloon style would be nice. The following engine choices could also be offered on the 626:


    1. regular 4 cylinder - mated only to a 5 speed.

    2. Turbocharged 4-cylinder (5speed and auto)

    3. 6cylinder (5 speed and auto)


    I hope they finally get it right in 2003.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The answer is simple. Americans equate hatchbacks with cheapness. That's why BMW called theirs the Compact and Mercedes insists theirs is a Coupe. Unfair as it sounds, people were comparing the RWD Compact with the Pinto.

    Small cars do poorly here, too. The Contour got cancelled, and have you seen G20 sales? Awful, with poor owner satisfaction as well.

    I happen to disagree - I have a stong preference for hatchbacks and wagons. Far more practical without much of a weight penalty.

    Mazda seems to be on the right track with the Protege wagon (I know they don't call it that, but that's what it is). Let's see if they can make the next 626 more spicy, but keep in mind the bean-counters have to make a product that will sell.

    -juice
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Wait for the 2003 626(or whatever it ends up being called). The concencus is to go with a more global vehicle than the current platform is. Also, Mazda has promised major improvements and is very open to a hatch back/wagon version as well.

    :)
  • wjm1wjm1 Member Posts: 33
    I think the answer is obvious - Ford simply will not allow Mazda to make a real success in the US. Yes, they own Mazda, 40% or something, but not 100%. Just enough to control it. That's the word - "CONTROL". So - why would they allow Mazda to even make a real competitive models for the US market? To slow down the sales of Focus, Taurus and Windstar?
    Of course they won't. For years consumers are asking Mazda to bring over in the US some of the engines used in Japan, that outperform by far their American cousins. Do you see any reasons for them not to do that other then the one above (and no - emissions are not an issue at all)?
    It's that simple.
    What do you think?

    (Just for reference - I am driving 94/626/V6 and my wife's car is a 2000 Protege AS)
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    "For the 2003 model year, the 626 will share the next Ford CD132 platform. It may be
    the only vehicle in North America that comes from Ford’s Mondeo platform...
    The next 626 is longer, wider and more powerful than the current one. Its design blends the current 626 with an Acura 3.2TL and Audi A4. A wagon with one-touch folding rear seats will come to the United States as well, looking similar to an Audi A4 Avant, but costing significantly less. A five-door hatchback version is being studied.
    The 626 powerplants will be a 2.3-liter inline-four and a 3.0-liter V-6 with variable valve timing, while the suspension will be double wishbones up front and multi-link at the rear. Production of the mid-sized lineup will start in 2002. The 626 will be the basis for Ford's next global mid-sized car."
    Automotive News, March 26.
  • hkchanhkchan Member Posts: 420
    So why didn't Toyota or Honda bring over some of the engines used in Japan, that outperform by far their American cousins? Or why Ford even have a Mercury division, to have the Sable slow down sale of the Taurus?
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Then why isn't the RX-7 still sold here?

    Answer: because it would have cost too much to retrofit for OBD-II vs. what sales volumes were.

    Also, if emissions are not an issue, why is it that the 2001 Miata lost 18 hp?

    :)
  • whackowhacko Member Posts: 96
    You're absolutely right! I absolutely agree.
  • whackowhacko Member Posts: 96
    I noticed that you also drive a 94 626/V6. Do you have the 5-sp or Auto? How many miles do you have and what do you think of your car overall? I just bought mine two months ago and it just turned over 100k miles.

    If you read my posts in the "Mazda 626 Troubles" forum, you'll see that I've invested almost $3300 in repairs since I bought the car because I really love my 626 and that I want to keep it another 100k miles if possible. What kind of problems have you had with yours?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That AN article sounds good, but I don't want the 626 to become another bloated mid-sizer. I hope they can keep it light and nimble.

    The 2001 Miata didn't lose 18hp - it was 13hp, and it never really made 155hp to begin with.

    Bob: FWIW, we have a '95 with 67k miles or so and the only out of warranty repair it has required was about $400 in fuel system work.

    -juice
  • roc8888roc8888 Member Posts: 1
    we're looking at a 98 626 w/50k for $10,000. can anyone give us feedback on this model, pro or con ? thanks
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    The V-6 was a nice ride, but I never cared for the mushy feel of my '98 I-4. The difference between the two is like night and day.

    :)
  • wjm1wjm1 Member Posts: 33
    Toyota and Honda (I don't know if Honda has different/better engines in Japan though - what do you know about that?) are more than competitive in the US already, don't you think. And if you compare their mid-size 6cyl cars - they have 40-45hp advantage over 626. Kind of difference, huh?
    Mercury is a 100% Ford, not 34% (like Mazda). And it's also a more expensive Ford :)
  • windowphobe6windowphobe6 Member Posts: 765
    Actually, it's more like 30-35 hp; the Camry's V6 produces 194 hp (so saith Edmund's), and the Accord's, an even 200 (likewise). The 626 mill, half a liter smaller, kicks out a mere 165 hp. The Mazda does enjoy a small weight advantage, a hundred pounds or so, which offsets some (but by no means all) of this power deficit. This car really needs a three-liter V6, and it will get one in 2003, but it's a shame to have to wait. (This from a guy who bought the four-cylinder.)

    For '98, apparently Mazda softened up the suspension of the 626 a tad, which may account for the mushiness reported above and elsewhere. Things were firmed up again for 2000; my car is squish-free.
  • wjm1wjm1 Member Posts: 33
    I like my 626. It's a lot of a car for the money.
    And I have my fair portion of issues with it as well - I had the oil pressure sensor unit gone bad and I don't know how long I have been driving with almost no oil (good thing I use synthetic :) ), the transmission shifts (it's AT) very hard, NV joints might be due, lifters are noisy and the friction gear spring should be changed - all of the above are known issues with this setup - check the probetalk.com ...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Honda does have better engines in Japan. There are far more "Type R" models. Nissan doesn't even sell its Skyline here. Not sure about Toyota, but I bet they have hotter hardware in Japan, too.

    Yes, Mazda could use a 200hp V6 to match with the best in the class, but the current engine is no slouch, and at least they offer a 5 speed manual (Mitsu and Honda do not).

    -juice
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    Mazda also has it's fair share of performance engines in Japan, but let's not forget the Miller-Cycle engine in the Millenia S. It displaces a mere 2.3L but puts out 210hp and 210lb-ft with an air of refinement that the less powerful Honda and Toyota 3.0L can't match. Of course, that Miller-Cycle engine is much more expensive to build.

    I've driven the '01 Accord, '01 Camry, and '01 626. The 626 doesn't have the off-the-line power like the 3.0 V6's do, but it feels faster as the rev's climb. And who cares if the Camry and Accord have more power... we all know Mazda drivers have more fun behind the wheel!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, hp is just one factor. I give a higher priority to suspension tuning, personally.

    -juice
  • curtnheidicurtnheidi Member Posts: 36
    I personally feel that the price you were quoted is slightly high. I am selling the same car with only 47k miles for 8950. That is more realistic to market value. Hope this helps. Also, the warranty is up at 50K miles, so keep that in mind.

    Curt
  • dmallinderdmallinder Member Posts: 35
    I'm stunned by the prices some people pay for used 626s and the difference in what I was offered for trade in. Admittedly I drove a pretty hard bargain on the purchase of my new car only to be offered $7500 for my VERY clean never damaged or mistreated 99 LXV6 5sp with only 19K miles !

    Another dealer offered me $10k trade in ( about the market according to data I can find and would be OK to me ) but does not sell the car I want.

    Hell I know Edminds doesn't want ads but I'd sell it to anyone for $11K ! I know good new deals keep trade in values low and sure the dealers need to make a profit but I'm betting they could seel this for easy $11.5-12K so I know the $7.5 is just to get some profit out of my deal.
  • whackowhacko Member Posts: 96
    The dealer is trying to steal your car if they're only offering $7500 for your 99 626/V6 w/19k. At the least, they should be giving you around $10k because according to Kelley Blue Book, trade-in value is around $12k. Dealers usually give anywhere between $1-2k under KBB trade-in value (depending of course on overall condition of the car and the current market conditions as well).
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "Ford simply will not allow Mazda to make a real success in the US."

    Why would Ford want a division to lose money? This statement is baseless and offers no facts to back it up. Another "US companies are the devil and the Asians are perfect" myth. Mazda fully is intent on being successful!

    Look in www.prnewswire.com and look up the latest sales figures for Mazda. They now can claim to be the "fastest growing Japanese car company". Now that Mitsubishi is caught in a web of recalls and deceptive practices (perfect my A##!).

    Millenia sales are up this year for the first time ever and the Protoge is flying out of the showrooms! Only the 626 is down, only since it is outdated. The next generation will be a Mazda design, a preview concept car was shown at the Chicago Auto show, it was a hybrid vehicle.

    The next generation Focus and Protege are being designed by a team made up of Mazda and Ford Europe. No parts used from 1981 Escorts I bet!
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    While I agree that the post a while back was way off base, there seems to be a little lack of support on Ford's part to really pick things up at Mazda. I think Ford doesn't want to get stuck in the Mazda money pit and they won't purchase more than they currently own until they are able to reduce Mazda's debt.

    As far as the Chicago (stupid spell check doesn't recognize this word) auto show, the car you saw was not the replacement for the 626. The unnamed 626 replacement has not yet been shown at a public show. If you were lucky enough to be part of the press, you may have seen a sneak peek in NY.

    :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mazda has had some great products over the years, but I think they lacked a consistent (and financially feasible) product plan. An identity, even.

    Think about it. It's kind of crazy to offer a rotary, a tiny 1.8l V6, and a Miller Cycle engine, all from a relatively small company! Each was an interesting design, but it's just not cost effective to market so many types of engines. I'm sure they have diesels overseas, and had used turbos a short while before.

    When they had the most interesting cars, they were also losing the most money. Their value plummeted and Ford gulped them up.

    Pick one technology, and stick with it. Rotary is the obvious choice, because they are synonymous with Mazda. Make it reliable, and build enough to amortize the money invested in developing it.

    While I like the Miller Cycle, it should be dropped because people simply do not know what it is. Millenia sales may have increased, but they are still poor compared to its best competitors.

    -juice
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    As much as I like the Miller cycle, I have to agree with you Juice and it appears that Mazda does as well.

    The new rotary(250hp, normally aspirated) should be a keeper. Supposedly, the emissions have been greatly reduced so the only factor unknown is the reliability. If it holds up, the next gen. of rotary engines should be home runs.

    :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There you go - use that rotary in the Millenia replacement. Give is something to stand out, and dealers won't have to offer the deep, deep discounts we've seen over the years.

    And who wouldn't like a 250hp Millenia, or even 626? Just offer a 5 speed this time.

    -juice
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Typically, the rotary doesn't have the torque to handle tankish sedans but I'm not sure what the figures are on the Renesis. Now a Protege or Miata with a Rotary sounds like a mighty fine idea. I've read that the future R and Miata will share a common platform so that guess may not be to far off.

    :)
  • jstandeferjstandefer Member Posts: 805
    Here are the two reasons Mazda is not as successful as it should be:

    Marketing
    Mazda's marketing is extremely poor. Mazda does not need to work on its image. First, they must let the buying public know that they even exist! Once one exists in John/Jane Q. Public's mind, then an image can be presented. The "Zoom Zoom" campaign is a terrific idea. But it's just like their cars... terrific ideas and concept, but when and where does the public get to see it?

    Ford's largest contribution to the company could have been an infusion in Mazda's marketing campaign and budget. The public's last connection to Mazda was the RX-7. With it's elimination from most of the world's markets, Mazda lost any connection it had with public awareness. Sure, there's the Miata which everyone knows, but ask most people in the street who builds it. I was shocked when I tried that. Toyota? Honda? Ford?

    Dealer Network
    Read the posts here on Edmunds.com. How many negative things do you hear about Mazda dealerships? A whole lot. From my experience, Mazda has one of the worst dealer networks in the industry. Mazda dealers are kept in the dark about everything. I don't know how many times we received the cars months before the brochures were even available!

    Many Mazda dealerships I have visited are worn down, crumbly old buildings. The management, sales staff, and service personnel are rude and have very poor product knowledge. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda all have very strict training and certification programs. What does Mazda have? A multiple choice computer test you can take over and over until you pass it by the process of eliminating the wrong answers! Very, very poor. Sure, they have classes. They're generally held in some back room of a hotel with a PowerPoint slide show that is less informative than the rare brochures! Even worse, the class is generally for an entire sales region. How many salespeople show up? You're lucky to see a dozen!

    Conclusion
    Without public awareness that the company still exists, sales will always be stagnant. They might increase a couple of percentage points here and there, but 10% for Mazda is about equivalent to 0.1% for Toyota. And for the people who are either Mazda fanatics (like myself) or just happened to stumble across a Mazda dealership- they're not scared off by the vehicles, they're scared off by the poor dealership experience! I hear Mercury's existence is on Ford's chopping block... Mazda may very well be there soon.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    I think you hit it Jerry, but how do you get dealers to turn around in a day?

    I disagree with the Mazda/Mercury comparison. Mercury has no identity outside of Lincoln and a past that goes too far back for anyone to remember. The real difference there is that Mercury is just a sales arm and not a complete manufacturer. Mazda has excellent engineering as well as production capabilities. Hmmm, maybe I/M could sell Mazda, they may do a better job. I'm confident that Mazda will be around in some way, shape or form but it will take some work for them to get in shape(maybe jumping jacks before work?).
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