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As long as we are dreaming, how about a Millenia 2.3L in a 626? Turn the boost up a hair, add a 6spd and stiffen the ride up. Hmmm, I may have some spare parts around here, anybody have a donor car?
It's dead as dead goes. Mazda learned the hard way in 1993/94 that they just aren't big enough to support 2 sales channels.
Rotaries(eyes light up):
I talked to an engineer one time who worked on a project to put a 13B in a Prote. His English wasn't the best, but a grin like that crosses all borders.
Don't expect the rotary in anything here but the coming(fingers crossed) RX-8.
But I do not how reliable for this year's 626? And what is the reasonable price for this car?
The new MPV has only had 2 recalls if I can recall. One was a voluntary bumper recall after IIHS tested the 5MPH bumpers on the van, and another was the incorrect sticker in the door jamb.
Take a look at the MPV, then look at the Tribute. You will see a world's difference in the way everything is put together. The interior on the Tribute screams 'cheap' and 'tinny' compared to the MPV's interior.
I don't mind Ford using Mazda parts and engineering, but the other way around bugs me. Mazda is exorcising any and all character from its cars.
The Tribute uses a Ford engine and trans. Go to the Tribute boards and read up on the troubles their community leader has had with his.
I just want Mazda to remain Mazda. Sharing some parts is probably inevitable, but I think their effort with the MPV was far better than with the Tribute (and preliminary reliability ratings agree).
-juice
I like the '97s, but at that point, only some of the CD4E transmission modifications were in place, so I have a certain amount of squeamishness about the I4-auto combination.
$10,000 seems reasonable if it's in tip-top shape. (Edmunds.com has a nice little calculator in its used-car listings into which you can plug all the variables.)
The difference in the vehicles boils down to where they were built/assembled.
Close the doors on the Protege, Millenia, and MPV. They all have the same near-silent, solid thunk to them. No rattles or latch noise.
Now close the doors on the 626, Tribute, and B-Series. They all have the same Ford-type ka-thunk-ka. There's some rattle of the door glass and you can hear the latch engage in its two latch levels.
The first group is assembled in Japan. The second group is assembled in the U.S. Throughout those vehicles, there is a definite difference in build quality... from the body panels, to the paint, to the interiors.
The Edmunds review of the 626 seems to suggest that the Contour was a better car than the 626 in terms of handling, ride etc. Is this true?
Contour was too small for US tastes. Other markets tend to prefer small, fuel efficient cars. Despite kind reviews from the press, it sold like freezers in Alaska.
The Focus is roomier, and cheaper to boot. That's why it's succeeded where the Contour failed. I think Ford watered down the handling far less than they did in the US market Contour, also.
Didn't Mazda have a tag line earlier, "It just feels right"? I think they called it Kansei (SP?) engineering.
-juice
However... My choice of vehicle before buying my Protege ES was the Contour SE V6 5-spd. That was a total disappointment. It drives nothing like the Mazda's do... very Fordish. I even drove the Mustang GT 5-spd. Again, big disappointment. It's like driving a really cramped Taurus with a V8. It had a really stiff ride but couldn't corner to save your life and it had a turning circle of a Boeing 747. I really wanted a Miata, but I do require a trunk... Of course, I could buy a used '94 and add the supercharger... hmmmm. I've gotta run... www.autotrader.com
Though it's fun as-is, in stock form.
Then just get a trailer. Seriously, they sell a Class I hitch for them that can support a 200 lb tongue weight and a 1000 lb trailer!
-juice
I found the 626 in the following and other markets more compact, attractive and Infiniti (G-20) like:
1. http://www.mazda.co.uk/model_range.asp?car_id=10
2. http://www.mazda.nl/modellen/626hatchback/frame_home_NS4.html
3. http://www.mazda.co.za/frame_net.htm
Why can't Mazda have a single design for all their markets, like they do for the MPV and the Tribute? Also, why do American consumers have limited engine and style choices? Having the 626 in a Hatchback (or coupe) or Saloon style would be nice. The following engine choices could also be offered on the 626:
1. regular 4 cylinder - mated only to a 5 speed.
2. Turbocharged 4-cylinder (5speed and auto)
3. 6cylinder (5 speed and auto)
I hope they finally get it right in 2003.
Small cars do poorly here, too. The Contour got cancelled, and have you seen G20 sales? Awful, with poor owner satisfaction as well.
I happen to disagree - I have a stong preference for hatchbacks and wagons. Far more practical without much of a weight penalty.
Mazda seems to be on the right track with the Protege wagon (I know they don't call it that, but that's what it is). Let's see if they can make the next 626 more spicy, but keep in mind the bean-counters have to make a product that will sell.
-juice
Of course they won't. For years consumers are asking Mazda to bring over in the US some of the engines used in Japan, that outperform by far their American cousins. Do you see any reasons for them not to do that other then the one above (and no - emissions are not an issue at all)?
It's that simple.
What do you think?
(Just for reference - I am driving 94/626/V6 and my wife's car is a 2000 Protege AS)
the only vehicle in North America that comes from Ford’s Mondeo platform...
The next 626 is longer, wider and more powerful than the current one. Its design blends the current 626 with an Acura 3.2TL and Audi A4. A wagon with one-touch folding rear seats will come to the United States as well, looking similar to an Audi A4 Avant, but costing significantly less. A five-door hatchback version is being studied.
The 626 powerplants will be a 2.3-liter inline-four and a 3.0-liter V-6 with variable valve timing, while the suspension will be double wishbones up front and multi-link at the rear. Production of the mid-sized lineup will start in 2002. The 626 will be the basis for Ford's next global mid-sized car."
Automotive News, March 26.
Answer: because it would have cost too much to retrofit for OBD-II vs. what sales volumes were.
Also, if emissions are not an issue, why is it that the 2001 Miata lost 18 hp?
If you read my posts in the "Mazda 626 Troubles" forum, you'll see that I've invested almost $3300 in repairs since I bought the car because I really love my 626 and that I want to keep it another 100k miles if possible. What kind of problems have you had with yours?
The 2001 Miata didn't lose 18hp - it was 13hp, and it never really made 155hp to begin with.
Bob: FWIW, we have a '95 with 67k miles or so and the only out of warranty repair it has required was about $400 in fuel system work.
-juice
Mercury is a 100% Ford, not 34% (like Mazda). And it's also a more expensive Ford
For '98, apparently Mazda softened up the suspension of the 626 a tad, which may account for the mushiness reported above and elsewhere. Things were firmed up again for 2000; my car is squish-free.
And I have my fair portion of issues with it as well - I had the oil pressure sensor unit gone bad and I don't know how long I have been driving with almost no oil (good thing I use synthetic ), the transmission shifts (it's AT) very hard, NV joints might be due, lifters are noisy and the friction gear spring should be changed - all of the above are known issues with this setup - check the probetalk.com ...
Yes, Mazda could use a 200hp V6 to match with the best in the class, but the current engine is no slouch, and at least they offer a 5 speed manual (Mitsu and Honda do not).
-juice
I've driven the '01 Accord, '01 Camry, and '01 626. The 626 doesn't have the off-the-line power like the 3.0 V6's do, but it feels faster as the rev's climb. And who cares if the Camry and Accord have more power... we all know Mazda drivers have more fun behind the wheel!
-juice
Curt
Another dealer offered me $10k trade in ( about the market according to data I can find and would be OK to me ) but does not sell the car I want.
Hell I know Edminds doesn't want ads but I'd sell it to anyone for $11K ! I know good new deals keep trade in values low and sure the dealers need to make a profit but I'm betting they could seel this for easy $11.5-12K so I know the $7.5 is just to get some profit out of my deal.
Why would Ford want a division to lose money? This statement is baseless and offers no facts to back it up. Another "US companies are the devil and the Asians are perfect" myth. Mazda fully is intent on being successful!
Look in www.prnewswire.com and look up the latest sales figures for Mazda. They now can claim to be the "fastest growing Japanese car company". Now that Mitsubishi is caught in a web of recalls and deceptive practices (perfect my A##!).
Millenia sales are up this year for the first time ever and the Protoge is flying out of the showrooms! Only the 626 is down, only since it is outdated. The next generation will be a Mazda design, a preview concept car was shown at the Chicago Auto show, it was a hybrid vehicle.
The next generation Focus and Protege are being designed by a team made up of Mazda and Ford Europe. No parts used from 1981 Escorts I bet!
As far as the Chicago (stupid spell check doesn't recognize this word) auto show, the car you saw was not the replacement for the 626. The unnamed 626 replacement has not yet been shown at a public show. If you were lucky enough to be part of the press, you may have seen a sneak peek in NY.
Think about it. It's kind of crazy to offer a rotary, a tiny 1.8l V6, and a Miller Cycle engine, all from a relatively small company! Each was an interesting design, but it's just not cost effective to market so many types of engines. I'm sure they have diesels overseas, and had used turbos a short while before.
When they had the most interesting cars, they were also losing the most money. Their value plummeted and Ford gulped them up.
Pick one technology, and stick with it. Rotary is the obvious choice, because they are synonymous with Mazda. Make it reliable, and build enough to amortize the money invested in developing it.
While I like the Miller Cycle, it should be dropped because people simply do not know what it is. Millenia sales may have increased, but they are still poor compared to its best competitors.
-juice
The new rotary(250hp, normally aspirated) should be a keeper. Supposedly, the emissions have been greatly reduced so the only factor unknown is the reliability. If it holds up, the next gen. of rotary engines should be home runs.
And who wouldn't like a 250hp Millenia, or even 626? Just offer a 5 speed this time.
-juice
Marketing
Mazda's marketing is extremely poor. Mazda does not need to work on its image. First, they must let the buying public know that they even exist! Once one exists in John/Jane Q. Public's mind, then an image can be presented. The "Zoom Zoom" campaign is a terrific idea. But it's just like their cars... terrific ideas and concept, but when and where does the public get to see it?
Ford's largest contribution to the company could have been an infusion in Mazda's marketing campaign and budget. The public's last connection to Mazda was the RX-7. With it's elimination from most of the world's markets, Mazda lost any connection it had with public awareness. Sure, there's the Miata which everyone knows, but ask most people in the street who builds it. I was shocked when I tried that. Toyota? Honda? Ford?
Dealer Network
Read the posts here on Edmunds.com. How many negative things do you hear about Mazda dealerships? A whole lot. From my experience, Mazda has one of the worst dealer networks in the industry. Mazda dealers are kept in the dark about everything. I don't know how many times we received the cars months before the brochures were even available!
Many Mazda dealerships I have visited are worn down, crumbly old buildings. The management, sales staff, and service personnel are rude and have very poor product knowledge. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda all have very strict training and certification programs. What does Mazda have? A multiple choice computer test you can take over and over until you pass it by the process of eliminating the wrong answers! Very, very poor. Sure, they have classes. They're generally held in some back room of a hotel with a PowerPoint slide show that is less informative than the rare brochures! Even worse, the class is generally for an entire sales region. How many salespeople show up? You're lucky to see a dozen!
Conclusion
Without public awareness that the company still exists, sales will always be stagnant. They might increase a couple of percentage points here and there, but 10% for Mazda is about equivalent to 0.1% for Toyota. And for the people who are either Mazda fanatics (like myself) or just happened to stumble across a Mazda dealership- they're not scared off by the vehicles, they're scared off by the poor dealership experience! I hear Mercury's existence is on Ford's chopping block... Mazda may very well be there soon.
I disagree with the Mazda/Mercury comparison. Mercury has no identity outside of Lincoln and a past that goes too far back for anyone to remember. The real difference there is that Mercury is just a sales arm and not a complete manufacturer. Mazda has excellent engineering as well as production capabilities. Hmmm, maybe I/M could sell Mazda, they may do a better job. I'm confident that Mazda will be around in some way, shape or form but it will take some work for them to get in shape(maybe jumping jacks before work?).