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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Have you done a head-to-head driving comparison of a '05 Civic LX to an Elantra GLS? How about a Civic EX to an Elantra GT? What other Hyundais have you driven lately, to determine that they are poor copies of Hondas and Toyotas?

    When YOU own the vehicle, all the "problems" are YOURS!

    Yes, that is especially true with Hondas such as the Civic, which have only a 3-year, 36,000-mile warranty on even the powertrain. With Hyundais such as the Elantra, the problems are yours but at least Hyundai will fix them under warranty for five years/60,000 miles bumper-to-bumper, and for 10 years/100,000 miles powertrain.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    In the interest of "full disclosure", yes I do critize the Accord for a "blind spot" in the driver's outside mirror, one key cylinder on the driver's door, (none on the passenger door), V6 automatic transmission problems, (none on the four cyliner model), and Rattles on the V6 model. -----Sooooooo, what is your point. The "truth" is the "truth". If these conditions exist on the vehicles, we can write about them, ------right? ------- If I spent my money on a product, I can comment on the "quality" of the product. Would I purchase another Accord? Probably yes, because it has "less issues" then other vehicles on the market in the same price range, and my dealer is OUTSTANDING in terms of service. Because we purchase a product doesn't mean that we have to believe all the corporate spin. Owning a vehicle is not a religion. I do not have to accept the total package.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    In post 1099 I implied that GM was behind the curve when it comes to VVT technology. It turns out GM originally developed the variable valve timing concept, with Fiat being the first automaker to put VVT into a production car.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_valve_timing

    I wonder if Honda jumped on any patents from GM or Fiat? ;-)

    I stand corrected, Honda was the first manufacturer to bring VTEC to market. Fiat and GM experimented, but never produced a vehicle with it. Just like GM tried to produce cylinder deactivation system in 80's, which did not work. Honda has been able to make it work.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    ... Honda does not like to budge on pricing. I live in a small metro area, and seeing as how there is only ONE Honda dealership, they are able to add onto the price a smokin' $2000 market value adjustment. If you are going to negotiate anything, it is going to be in this "adjustment" when it is a Honda ...

    I don't think you fully understand how franchising works in the US. Honda corporate does not benefit from dealer marks ups at all. Honda coprorate sells the vehicles to the individual dealerships or dealership corporations at invoice, charges them for delivery and then it is done. If the cars don't sell Honda corporate will throw in some incentive for the dealer to lower the price. The widley known incentive is holdback, which encourages the dealer to sell the car fast. But after certain period of time, the holdback is 0. Honda corporate may work out a deal with AHFC (Honda bank) to have some low interest loans or leases, but those are just the tools that Honda provides individual dealerships to help them make a sale.

    I know that Hyundai has officially announced that ALL new models (even lowly Accents) in the future will be fitted with side-impact airbags, side-curtain airbags, antilock brakes, traction control, and electronic stability control. If Hyundai is going to do this in inexpensive cars, why can't Honda do it?

    All 2006 Honda Civic's will have side impact air bags and ABS standard. I heard.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    someone threw out there the word statistics. If you heard of statistics, then you should have heard of DR Deming, the father of TQM, the standard by which Japanese companies operate. In one of the books he talk about customer delight.

    To paraphrase it to the car, a customer is pleased when the car performs its intended function, which is to take you from point A to point B. You can add on more trinkets to the car to make a customer more delighted, such are leather seats, power windows, a/c, and so on. But the customer is going to be very angry, when the car does not start. When the product does not perform its basic function, all the add on's are worthless. The air bags and leather seats are good for nothing in a car that does not start. It is a very simple concept.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    I do understand dealer markups and franchising, I just don't think you understand what I meant.

    Hondas aren't easily negotiable, and it is my belief that if someone thinks they are getting a great deal on their Honda car, it is because they are having the dealer markup taken off. Honda does not offer incentives period, ever. They do offer special financing, but no incentives directly from Honda. I was just making the claim that dealerships (not Honda) only budge on pricing within the markup gap. For instance, if the total MSRP of an Accord is $27000 here, the dealership will have a little side sheet that says "M.V. Adjustment $2000", and the car will be $29000. If someone is to get any money off the top end of the car price from a dealership here, it is going to be in that $2000, not any further.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Fiat is the parent company of Alfa Romeo. The Alfa Romeo Spider started using VVT back in 1980--many years before Honda put VVT into production cars.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Interesting you mention Deming and customer delight. Deming's concepts have been adapted by many companies--they are not unique to Japanese companies, or Honda.

    As for customer delight, the 2004 Elantra is the most "delightful" small car, according to research consultancy Strategic Vision, Inc. Strategic Vision's "Customer Delight Index," based on the Edwards Customer Delight Scale ®, provides a comprehensive look at the product attributes and benefits that explicitly create "super-positive" delightful responses from the primary drivers of the vehicles.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    The "key factor here" is that Honda made the system work properly. It would be interesting to see, what is going to happen with the system, as the vehicle ages, given the fact that many owners do not change their engine oil and filters frequently. Only "time" will give us that information.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Honda made VVT work properly? Go tell the Fiat/Alfa engineers that. ;-)
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    Buy what you want to buy. No one is trying to control your purchase. You are simply being informed that there is more to a car than initial cost and butt warmers. Perhaps Hyundai has earned their keep and increased share beyond marketing's "first adopters". If in your area, Honda's are non-negotiable, get the Hyundai (it sounds like your mind is already fixed on a Hyundai and you are simply Honda-bashing). The cost-rationalization is simply not understood. The "adjusted market value" crap is put on the window at all Toyota and Honda dealerships in this area. You simply ignore it and offer what you perceive is a fair price. It sometimes takes hours of negotiations just to get to what Edmunds claims is the TMV. As far as vehicles, one of your stated interests seemed to be in long-term reliability. Although it's reported that Toyota assembles cars with lower defect rates than any other car manufacturer, Honda engines are the most durable non-diesel engines.
    Bottom line- you are talking about specific third person reports and selected information you want to present. Honda's good reputation has gone long past "my uncles car has a million miles" stories and is systemically favorable in all reports. As long as you are aware of that and not reacting in anger to a bad dealer experience, feel free to get whatever car you want.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Re engine durability... the next-gen Hyundai 4-cylinder engines, which will be in the '06 Elantra, are engineered to go 300,000 miles without a problem. Hyundai's current target is 180,000 miles. Way beyond what a car body will last in the Rust Belt where I live...
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    A "cheap copy" of a "high quality vehicle" is not as good or better than the "high quality vehicle". It is simply what it is; -----"A cheap copy", (almost the same, but not exactly the same). A Hyundai is not a Honda! It is that simple! A used well maintanined Honda,(in the same price range of a new Hyundai), is much better in terms of "quality", than a new Hyundai.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    For the last time, QUALITY is not an issue. Hyundais rank higher than Hondas in many quality survey/studies. The Sonata was named "Most Reliabale Car" in Consumer Reports magazine this year.

    I fail to realize the significance of your placing quotes around your "arguments". Quotes do not make your arguments have any more validity.

    You can argue to the death that the pythagorean theorem is wrong, but it still won't make it true. You are arguing Hyundais are bad, based on NO information or statistics.

    Did you pull up next to a Tiburon at a stoplight, give them a dirty look, and then after thinking you were going to show them a thing or two realize that all you can see of them is their taillights that you'd forever try and ruin Hyundai? C'mon man, read something. Anything you read about these cars will disprove your religion of Hyundai hate.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    Well I like my cheap copy and I'm glad my Hyundai Elantra isn't a Honda. I bought it almost 1 year ago. I have had zero problems with it. I got the hatchback body I wanted and I paid at least $4,000 less than what the Honda Civic EX would have cost me. Zero problems first year is good enough quality for me so far and the extra $4,000 in my bank account feels good.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    It appears that the lawyers do not agree with you regarding quality. See "Automaker reputations" posts 186/187.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    That is great! Enjoy your new vehicle. Everyone should purchase and drive the vehicle that makes them happy. Life is too short. Spend your money on what you want. Don't let other people influence you on making purchasing decisions. How many miles do you have on this vehicle? Based on what you paid for this vehicle, what will be the trade-in value of this vehicle after three years. What is the rate of depreciation on this vehicle. What is the demand for this vehicle on the used car market? One of my vehicles is a 2003 Accord that is 25 months old, and has 46,000+ miles on the clock. At this time next year, I am planing to look into the possibility of trading it for a new Accord (2006), (The 2003 will be paid for at that point in time, and life is too short to drive an old car). The 2003 Accord will have at least 68,000 miles. If the price of fuel remains high, there is going to be a "Big Demand" for a high quality well maintained used Honda. I should be able to get a high trade-in value for my Honda, because Honda has a track record. Can you say the same about your Hyundai?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Well said gregory.
  • bikerpabikerpa Member Posts: 68
    I think we've long since established a fundamental split here. I bought an Elantra because it was a NEW car that I could afford. With the amenities included (leather, CD/MP3, keyless, 4-wheel disc, alloys, hatch) I could see myself driving it happily even when it would be considered "old," leaving resale a non-issue for me. Three years? I'd like to keep my car for eight or nine. If the first year is anything to go by, I've learned that Hyundai stands strongly behind their warranty, and the car still makes me smile whenever I get into it.

    So I guess to answer your question, trade-in value means far less to me than a company that's genuinely interested in making their customers happy and provides a solid product for a stupid low amount of money. I have not owned one, but from reading around these and other forums Honda hasn't acted that way in quite some time.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    We have put 11,000 miles on our Elantra so far. Why would three year trade-in value mean anything to me when I plan to drive this car around ten years? I personally think acquiring a new depreciating asset (yes even though your beloved Honda depreciates less, it still depreciates significantly, which is a bad thing) every three years is downright foolhardy, but that's just my opinion. I hope you either have a lot of money to burn, or are prepared to be tied to working for a long time to cover your expenses. I prefer to work towards financial independence. Life is too short to be tied to a job.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I wonder if Civic owners think a lot about trading their cars within 3 years because that's the duration of the warranty? That's actually a big reason why I buy new cars vs used cars--the new-car warranty (also because there's no way to tell whether a used car was abused, unless you know the owner and car personally). With my Elantras, the powertrain will be under warranty for 10 of the 11 years I expect to have them in my family. I've been driving my '01 for 4.5 years and it's still under full warranty, still has roadside assistance (haven't used that yet, but it's nice to know it's there and saves me the AAA dues).

    I buy a car to drive it for a long time. If I know I am going to keep a car for only 2-3 years, I lease it. Under that proposition, a Civic can be a good deal because there are some good leases available on them. But I've driven both cars, and I much rather would prefer to drive the Elantra over the past 4.5 years than the Civic EX that would have cost me thousands more.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    Good point. I personally find it inexcusable for Honda and Toyota (and all other car companies for that matter) to offer 3 year full coverage warranties when Hyundai has stepped up and offers a 5 year full coverage warranty. Even the luxury line Acura only offers a 4 year full coverage warranty.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    I think they just offer shorter warranties because they can. Demand for their cars is already very high . . . why offer something extra when you don't need to. Making money for their shareholders is the number one priority and offering a lesser warranty does just that.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    I am retired!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    But a warranty that costs the manufacturer almost nothing (because of the sterling reliability of Hondas, they never break, etc.) wouldn't cost shareholders much if anything, would it? Maybe it would cost their dealers something, however, because they would not be able to make money on extended warranties on new and used cars. (I wonder if the manufacturer gets any profit from extended warranties on new cars?)
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    I agree it would not cost much more, especially since Hondas and Toyotas ARE very reliable cars. Either they don't view a company like Hyundai a threat to their market share or they did an analysis and determined the cost of improving the warranty was more than the revenue and profit generated by the additional unit sales.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I don't know about Honda not viewing Hyundai as a threat...

    At Honda, "We take them very seriously," says spokesman Andy Boyd about the South Koreans. "They're coming up the ladder, no question."

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-03-22-korean-cars-usat_x.htm

    Note also that Civic sales are down, while Hyundai's are up 14% so far this year even with an old lineup. Honda has stated they would rather cut production than tack on rebates, however--which helps protect prices and resale value, but doesn't protect market share.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    I'm not surprised at that quote and I'd think they'd be foolish not to be wary . . . those were just the only two reasons I could think of off the top of my head last night why Honda and Toyota would choose not to match other automaker's better warranties. But your post makes me think of a third possible motivation behind their actions, which would be reputation. Reputation and the price you can demand for your product are closely associated. So maybe the decision to not increase the warranty period is meant to implicitly send the message "our products are so good we don't NEED to offer a better warranty."
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I believe Smith20's assessment of the corporate mentality as to why Toyota and Honda are not offering a 5 year standard warranty is absolutely correct. However, I see the same type of arrogance in Honda and Toyota that US automakers had in the 1970's and early 80's when Toyota and Honda were developing. As backy and monomeo indicated, you are paying a premium for a Honda relative to a Hyundai, and then you would be paying even more for an extended warranty to match the standard warranty of the Hyundai. My father told me that even as late as 1985, a one-year standard warranty was typical for new cars. Competition drove the duration of the warranty to a longer time interval. Yes, implicity Honda wants to send the message that "we don't need to offer an increased warranty because our vehicles are better". But all I see is the explicit fact that if my Honda has a major repair at 46,000 miles, I'm not going to get another Honda. I think this is an optimal time for all carmakers to raise the bar on quality and offer 5 year standard warranties while keeping the price structure constant.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If this is true, why do luxury brands (like Acura for example) have longer warranties than Honda does? Are Hondas better than Acuras, or other luxury makes?
  • w2323w2323 Member Posts: 60
    Chrysler has been giving longer warranties for years. I think its because the ac used to go out 4 times before it hit 60k. The trans was also unreliable.

    I know of so many people that have had a dodge/chrysler only to have the ac go out rentlessly.

    Chrysler/Dodge, Mazda, Acura, Hyundai, Kia all have longer warranties. I believe the others will follow.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Don't forget Mitsubishi and Suzuki. Also Ford and GM have extended their warranties on some cars, I think as a response to the Koreans.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    Maybe because mainstream brands and luxury brands don't really compete with each other. (they target, for the most part, mutually exclusive groups of people perhaps?) I don't really know though. :)

    I think I personally believe Honda and Toyota thus far conclude that the cost of extending the warranty two more years outweighs the profit benefit of whatever additional unit sales the improved warranty would generate. That seems simple and straightforward.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    People keep on bringing up resale value. If you have a question about Honda versus Hyundai resale value, please review the previous posts. I have one that clearly shows based on True-Market-Value by Edmunds that at certain achieveable price points, the Hyundai Elantra has much better resale value than a Civic, and that's before factoring in the additional costs of repairs to the vehicles over the time they are owned.

    A lot of you act as though Hyundais (and Kias) are the worst made cars, and that you wouldn't trust them to take you around the block as far as reliability goes. If Hyundais and Kias were as unreliable as you insinuate, the corporation would go bankrupt from having to repair all of these vehicles. If Hyundai Motor Group only makes about $1000 on each new car they sell (which may be a realistic number, seeing as how many brands, like GM, actually lose money on cars and make it back with financing), and then had to have more than $1000 of repairs on vehicles over the 100,000 (or 60,000 if sold and then re-bought used) miles that would be covered on the warranty, Hyundai would not be the profitable company it is today. Do some math.

    While I am sure that this is an overly-simplistic way of looking at this, to a certain extent it is true. Hyundai's warranty costs have to be less than the profit on their new cars. It isn't like they are making a crapload of money on oil changes and accessory installs at the dealerships.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    The math behind why Honda and Toyota don't add longer warranties is interesting.

    Do the cars NEED warranties? While it is debatable if they need them in the sense of if they are going to have repairs along the way, it is certain that as far as the average consumer thinks: they do not.

    What stops them from adding the longer warranties?

    -It could be that the costs of adding the warranties outweighs the profit from the additional units. This thought is kind of weird in it of itself, because the average consumer would think that cars like Honda and Toyota aren't going to need warranties anyway. Their warranties aren't going to be used that much, seeing as how these cars are both extremely reliable, like Hyundai, so I doubt this is the reason why.

    -It could be that the dealership networks would not want this to happen. When things do go wrong with the cars, it gives the dealership service departments revenues, and the sales department another sales avenue.

    -It could be that the brands don't want to tarnish their image. The thought that they would add the warranties would make this brand detante that we are having between the different American / Japanese / Korean brands look like it is that much more volatile. Basically, if Toyota and Honda stand behind their cars more, it is not going to look like they make better cars to anyone, but that they are genuinely concerned about their competition from the backed-brands, i.e. Hyundai, and Kia.

    -It could be that implementing such a drastic change in warranties would cost these brands a lot of money. They would have to change so much paperwork, marketing, and address many issues of Toyota/Honda buyers. For instance, if someone buys a car on June 30th, and the new warranty program kicks in on July 1st, the June 30th person may want to sue Toyota when their transmission goes out... Things that are easily won by Toyota, but that could cost the brand a lot in terms of word-of-mouth and red tape.

    It may be any or all, or some combination of the above.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    But all I see is the explicit fact that if my Honda has a major repair at 46,000 miles, I'm not going to get another Honda.

    Out of all the people I know who have had a problem with their Honda after warranty expired, Honda either split the difference or covered the repair 100%. Honda may not offer official warranty that has longer terms, but Honda does step up to the plate when there are issues. All of V6 Accords with tranny problems are replaired by Honda for free, even after 3 years/36,000 miles.

    On the other hand, Hyndai would try to get out of warranty coverage as it can. Prime example of Hyundai's useless 10 years powertrain warranty: I have a friend who has Kia Sportage, with 10 year power train warranty. Every time it rains her car/truck does not work properly. She had the dealership trace the problem to the main harness connecting to the tranny. The warranty covers the tranny, but not the wires that conect to it. She was out of $1500 for the diagnostic and repair. Is it fair? What is the warranty good for if she had to pay?
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    One other point I failed to take into account before I ranted about warranties were terms and limitations. I know as long as there is documentation about oil changes, Honda will honor a warranty regardless of whether a semi-trained monkey (i.e. me) or a knowledgable mechanic serviced the car. Does Hyundai have any limitations on warranties (i.e. mandatory visits to the dealership with high service fees)?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    A wiring harness connected to the transmission is not part of the transmission. Think about all the things connected to the engine and transmission. Should a "powertrain warranty" cover all those parts? Is that "fair"? If someone wants 10-year bumper-to-bumper coverage, including wiring harnesses, that is available from Hyundai, and is transferrable. Looks to me like your friend wanted something for nothing. The warranty book is very clear about what is covered and what is not.

    I wish Honda had "stepped up" to split the cost with me or even pay 100% for replacing the air conditioning condenser on my Civic, which failed with less then 5 years and 60,000 miles on the car. They did not--cost $800. It would have been covered 100% by the Hyundai warranty. They also didn't help me when the car needed a new clutch at 40k miles. I've never had a clutch wear out that fast. Sure, it's a wear item and not covered under Honda's warranty--even if it had a warranty after 36k miles. But since you seem to believe that manufacturers should routinely cover parts that aren't covered under warranty, like the wiring harness on the Sportage, Honda should have paid for most or all of the clutch replacement, right?

    I have to challenge your statement that "all V6 Accords with tranny problems are replaired [sic] by Honda for free." Does that mean if I own a '97 Honda V6 and the tranny goes at 100k miles, Honda will fix it for free? That is extremely generous of Honda I think. I've never heard of such a generous program.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    No, Hyundai does not require that you go to the dealership for service. It does require you to use parts that are at least OEM-spec and be able to provide evidence that you had the required maintenance done, e.g. receipts for oil/filters if you did the work yourself. It even includes a section in the owner's manual for do-it-yourselfers on routine maintenance items.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    One other point I failed to take into account before I ranted about warranties were terms and limitations. I know as long as there is documentation about oil changes, Honda will honor a warranty regardless of whether a semi-trained monkey (i.e. me) or a knowledgable mechanic serviced the car. Does Hyundai have any limitations on warranties (i.e. mandatory visits to the dealership with high service fees)?

    No manufacturer can deny warranty coverage if maintenance was performed outside of the dealership, or aftermarket items were installed. I think it is called Moss-Ferguson act.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I wish Honda had "stepped up" to split the cost with me or even pay 100% for replacing the air conditioning condenser on my Civic, which failed with less then 5 years and 60,000 miles on the car. They did not--cost $800. It would have been covered 100% by the Hyundai warranty. They also didn't help me when the car needed a new clutch at 40k miles. I've never had a clutch wear out that fast.

    Did you ever call Honda corporate and asked? Did you expect the dealer to do the asking for you? AFAIK Honda corporate always looks after its customers.

    By the way a leaky condenser could have been due to road debris flying through it, or what not. Not even Hyundai's bumper-to-bumper will cover that.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Why should I take the problem to Honda corporate? The part failed out of warranty. The dealer said it was my responsibility. Based on the warranty terms, that was fair. If I had known Honda always pays for failed parts that are out of warranty, or at least 1/2 of the cost, as you claim, I would have asked Honda to do that.

    However, I know it is not the case that Honda corporate always takes care of its customers. For some examples, take a look at the Honda Accord Hybrid discussion for how Honda has treated some of its customers who purchased its most expensive car, when they reported problems in the XM radio etc.

    BTW, the condenser failed, period, according to the service tech. (Yes, Honda parts do fail.) Also, that same Civic was the only vehicle I have owned that showed significant body rust after less than five years. My '01 Elantra, driven through five Minnesota winters, shows zero signs of body rust. Maybe if I had complained to Honda corporate, they would have fixed the rust for free. :-^
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    BTW, the condenser failed, period, according to the service tech. (Yes, Honda parts do fail.) Also, that same Civic was the only vehicle I have owned that showed significant body rust after less than five years. My '01 Elantra, driven through five Minnesota winters, shows zero signs of body rust. Maybe if I had complained to Honda corporate, they would have fixed the rust for free. :-^

    Actually, they would have replaced the car for free, as everyone knows that Honda is covered for 5 years/ unlimited mileage against rust. The rust coverage is pretty plainly explained in the warranty section of the Owner's manual.

    I am not saying that Honda parts never fail, I am saying that if the parts fail Honda will stand behind it. I had the window regulators fail on my 2002 Civic within the first 6 months. They were replaced under warranty, I called Honda corporate and complained. They offered free extended warranty to 7 years/70,000 miles with $0 deductible.

    However, I know it is not the case that Honda corporate always takes care of its customers. For some examples, take a look at the Honda Accord Hybrid discussion for how Honda has treated some of its customers who purchased its most expensive car, when they reported problems in the XM radio etc.

    XM radio is not a Honda product and may well be out of Honda's hands. I don't know what problems people have with XM radios, and I am not going to read through a ton of posts.

    The dealer said it was my responsibility. Based on the warranty terms, that was fair. If I had known Honda always pays for failed parts that are out of warranty, or at least 1/2 of the cost, as you claim, I would have asked Honda to do that.

    It was in your interest to get Honda to cover the repair. It was in no way dealer's interest to bat for you. Had you called Honda corporate they would have most likeley covered the repair, and you would have been one happy customer. Remeber "squeaky wheel gets the grease"
  • bikerpabikerpa Member Posts: 68
    XM radio is not a Honda product and may well be out of Honda's hands. I don't know what problems people have with XM radios, and I am not going to read through a ton of posts.

    Just to be fair (and to get this slightly back more towards the Elantra/Civic debate and not the Hyundai/Honda in general debate), the Kenwood CD/MP3 player standard in the 2004 Elantra GT has been known to cease reliable playback of CD-R discs in either normal audio or MP3 modes, and Hyundai has regularly and without fail replaced the unit in every instance I have seen. I'm planning on taking advantage of it myself, since mine has just started to go. Hyundai has also shown that they've learned from that experience, as the Kenwood is no longer OEM equipment on 2005 models.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, I have the Kenwood unit on my '04 GT and it's worked great so far. But the thing about the radio in a Honda not being a "Honda part" is bunk. How many parts do automakers, including Honda, routinely buy from other suppliers? Not every part in a Hyundai is a "Hyundai part," and not every part in a Honda is a "Honda part." Yet all the parts are, or should be, covered under the warranty. It's interesting that the renowned Honda customer service has told these owners of the $30k HAH that problems with their radios are "normal." If that is any indication of the great Honda customer service, you can have it. Hyundai is not perfect, but they haven't squaked one bit when I asked them to fix things on my $11k Elantra that weren't even under warranty--for free. And I didn't have to go to Hyundai corporate either--I just asked the dealer's service writer. It's funny too that Honda would buy a new car for me if there is a spot of rust during the warranty period (which wasn't 5 years when I owned that Civic that rusted), but they won't own up to problems with a radio in a brand-new $30k car. I sense some inconsistencies here in the Honda customer support policies.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    "Remeber 'squeaky wheel gets the grease'"

    I ponder the experiences you describe and wonder whether the fixes are due more to Honda's good nature or your "squeakiness". Perhaps you are very good at negotiating what you want.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    XM radio is going to be standard on ALL Hyundais... That's crazy to me. That will get so many more people into showrooms, or at least get them to come back.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    "Remeber 'squeaky wheel gets the grease'"

    I ponder the experiences you describe and wonder whether the fixes are due more to Honda's good nature or your "squeakiness". Perhaps you are very good at negotiating what you want.

    The latter.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    Then extrapolating based on your experience to say Honda will pay for fixes out of warranty, or give you extra benefits in warranty, while Hyundai will not does not seem fair to me. You don't know what would happen if you owned a Hyundai Elantra with a similar problem as you had on your Civic and then complained to Hyundai directly.

    I think Hyundai is actually quite concerned about their image too. It's a key part of becoming a better auto manufacturer. I think even the people that don't like Hyundai have to agree that Hyundai is *trying* to improve their image. The disagreement, however, comes down to whether or not they are being successful in that endeavor.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Has it ever occured to anyone that a Honda Civic does not cost $4000 more to make than a Hyundai?

    Elantra GLSes normally sell for about $12,000 (-Edmunds TMV), and Civic LXes normally sell for about $16,000.

    Considering that these cars have about the same level of sophistication and equipment, and also factoring in that the Hyundai's price includes the 100,000 mile warranty, where is that other money going?

    Does a Civic cost $4000 more than an Elantra to build? I'd guess no.
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