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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

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Comments

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I had a test drive in the new Elantra today. It did not impress me. Acceleration not nearly as good as the Civic. Interior quality seemed cheap compared to civic. Outside it looked nice, better than the old Elantra by far, but far inferior to the Civic. I'm sorry, I just cant get excited about it.

    Elantra was rated higher than the Civic by Car & Driver with an overall score of 80 for the Elantra compared to 76 for the Civic for the areas of driver comfort, ergonomics, rear-seat comfort, rear-seat space, trunk space, features/amenities, fit and finish, interior styling, and exterior styling.
    Not surprising since the Elantra has equal to higher quality interior materials and better ergonomics than the Civic.

    C&D stated the Elantra has "Top Quality interior materials and details".

    The Civic was criticized for it's interior and road noise.

    Anyone with objectivity will realize that carfanatics comment Interior quality seemed cheap compared to civic. is simply a baseless biased attack on the Elantra by a Civic owner that is a hater of all things non-Honda.
    And carfanatic especially has a vendetta against VW, which is pretty funny since Rabbit came in 1st place and Civic came in 3rd place.
    In the area of Civic vs. Elantra, Civic loses in all areas except engine and handling.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, he could be one of those people who really love the space capsule styling of the Civic. C/D did say it was one of those love/hate things.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    The guy states his subjective opinion and you counter with objective data to show how his opinion is "baseless." See the problem with your logic? Must everyone love everything Hyundai produces? Have you test driven the Elantra?

    BTW, even your data you posted is wrong. How hard is it to just copy/paste numbers from C&D?
    The Civic scored higher than the Elantra in
    Fit and finish,
    Exterior styling,
    Fuel economy,
    Engine NVH,
    performance,
    steering feel,
    handling,
    ride,
    gotta have it,
    and fun-to-drive.
    The Overall score the Civic received was a 193 compared with a 174 for the Elantra. It wasn't a close race.

    "In the area of Civic vs. Elantra, Civic loses in all areas except engine and handling."

    Yeah, those little, non-important areas.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    BTW, even your data you posted is wrong. How hard is it to just copy/paste numbers from C&D?

    No, you are the one who fails to comprehend, germancarfan.

    quote from my earlier post-
    Elantra was rated higher than the Civic by Car & Driver with an overall score of 80 for the Elantra compared to 76 for the Civic for the areas of driver comfort, ergonomics, rear-seat comfort, rear-seat space, trunk space, features/amenities, fit and finish, interior styling, and exterior styling.
    Not surprising since the Elantra has equal to higher quality interior materials and better ergonomics than the Civic.

    Elantra 80
    Civic 76
    :surprise:

    80 is still higher than 76 last time I checked.

    If you read the article and what I posted several times you may begin to comprehend.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    I, for one, tend to love everything Hyundai produces and I have owned both... two Santa Fe's, and one Elantra (a 2000 model currently driven by my son with 147,000 miles on it)and a 2006 Civic with 6,000 miles purchased about this time last year. In those 6K miles I have had the following: both rear shocks faulty and leaked from new (7 miles)with resulting clunking noises from the rear suspension that got progressively worse until I had them replaced in July this year. An unexplained, until just a week ago, harmonic vibration/noise evident at around 1500 rpm in higher gears and recently at idle. There is now a Honda service bulletin issued to address the problem. I have scheduled to have this kit installed on Friday. I still have what many believe to be a noise caused by a faulty upper right side engine mount, now on its third redesign according to some. However, nothing official from Honda in the way of a service bulletin. All on a car with 6K miles. All my Hyundai cars had less problems combined, including the 140K mile car which has has new front brakes and rotors several times, new rear brakes once, new tires duh, and a couple of headlight/tailight bulbs(all routine and not unexpected) and the big repair...a new alternator at around 138,000 miles. The struts and shocks probably could be replaced but they aren't leaking. So getting back to your list and yes, I have driven the 2007 Elantra..
    1.fit and finish: tied, nice close fit lines and paintwork on both. Oh I found a screw under the front passenger seat of my Civic and never did find where it might go.
    2.exterior style: I really do like the Civic but could live with the Elantra and it does look much better than the previous generation. A subjective call huh
    3.fuel economy..well yes the Civic has better EPA estimates at 40 highway/30 city but in a year I never achieved either the best being 37.5 highway and typically 23-24 city. The Elantra is somewhat less at 36 highway 28 city but probably won't achieve those numbers either but actual numbers are undetermined at this time.
    4.engine NVH: The Honda is quiet and smooth at idle BUT so is the Elantra. At speed both are quiet except under hard acceleration when the Hyundai remains quieter.
    5.performance: Hyundai feels quicker to speed, yeah a subjective comment but I have seen no hard test numbers yet. The Civic is on the average to slow side (automatic version)at mid 9's to 60 mph and low 80' in the 1/4 mile and I expect the Elantra to match or beat those numbers since the previous generation could.
    6. steering feel: if by that you mean the Civic feels like a go-cart then yeah. I was all over the road the first few miles with the Civic over-correcting. Tiny steering wheel and quick direct feel. By contrast the Elantra feels more relaxed and less like that previously mentioned go-cart...is that better? Depends on what you think your car should drive like but both go around corners..well that's handling isn't it
    7. handling: both go around corners well enough for me but boy racers may feel the Honda more direct.
    8.ride: Oh dear the civic feels like that go-cart again stiff and noisy inside..mostly road and wind noise while the Elantra is QUIET and much smoother sooo if you want a relaxed drive the Elantra is all over the Civic.
    9.gotta-have-it: ah, who knows...depends on what you gotta have.
    10. fun to drive: OK the Civic is more entertaining if you constantly drive like a finish line looms in the distance, BUT if you simply want to relax in peace and quiet go for the Elantra.
    You forgot quality and yeah I know Honda IS quality except with this, my first Honda product of any kind, you couldn't prove it by me. While I'm on quality the interior door panels and trim on the Civic is about the cheapest one could imagine. Our driver door panel is scratched to hell, especially that waffle pattern around the door handles.
    You forgot price too with an automatic EX Civic sedan stickered at $20,000 it is certainly overpriced but it is a Honda after all right?! Oh, lets not forget interior space..headroom, legroom, hip room etc. (front and rear)..Elantra in spades...trunk space, Elantra there too
    After having looked at the new 2007 Elantra, while I think it is a nice car, I have decided on something else for my next car...a Sonata.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    germancarfanThe guy states his subjective opinion and you counter with objective data to show how his opinion is "baseless." See the problem with your logic? Must everyone love everything Hyundai produces? Have you test driven the Elantra?

    What does "feels cheap" equate to? Poor material quality? Exposed fasteners? Dislike of colors? Hard plastics? Uneven fit between panels? Few standard features?

    Without some degree of detail the opinion is biased and baseless when majority of reviews by professional automotive reviews of the Elantra praise the quality of the interior materials, ergonomics, and quietness and the criticism has been with the power, ride, and mpg..
    "Feels cheap" without any justification from someone who has a long track record of making generalized attacks on non-Honda vehicles is not credible.

    Do I see a problem with my logic? No, I see a problem with generalized, unsubstantiated negativity.

    Have I test driven an Elantra?

    Yes I have test driven an Elantra. I found it to be much improved compared to the previous Elantra. Very good ergonomics and high quality of materials in the inside. Fit and finish was very good.
    Compared to the Civic I prefer the handling and performance of the Civic. Civic and Mazda 3 I would describe as sport type handling emphasis and Elantra and Corolla are tuned toward comfort.
    Given the choice between a Civic and Elantra I would choose the Elantra. Given the choice between a Civic, Elantra, and Mazda 3 I would choose the Mazda.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    If you have enjoyed Hyundai vehicles as much as you say you have, why did you purchase a 2006 Civic (which by your own admission is overpriced) instead of a vehicle manufactured by Hyundai? Why not an Elantra or better yet, why not a Sonata...after all, it would have been cheaper after rebates than a 2006 Civic, right?

    Somehow I doubt any of what you say is truthful.

    1. A screw? a SCREW?!

    3. Your numbers don't jive with the general consensus over at the Civic "real world mileage" forum. In addition, C&D reports at least a 5MPG difference between the Civic and new Elantra avg. MPG.

    4. I guess C&D made up "downright annoying" just to infuriate Hyundai lovers.

    5. Civic is faster to 60 and to the 1/4 mile than the Elantra per C&D's test.

    6. Handling is about safety. In that regard, the Civic makes a mockery of the Elantra in the Lane Change MPH and skidpad tests.

    8. Did you even test drive the civic before plunking down that much cash? Your claims of owning a Civic continue to unravel.

    9. Apparently you thought you had to buy the Civic...after all, why did you purchase it?

    10. "BUT if you simply want to relax in peace and quiet go for the Elantra." Except over 72 MPH, right?

    Could you at least try and make it look like you actually own the car.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    "Elantra was rated higher than the Civic by Car & Driver with an overall score of 80 for the Elantra compared to 76 for the Civic for the areas of driver comfort, ergonomics, rear-seat comfort, rear-seat space, trunk space, features/amenities, fit and finish, interior styling, and exterior styling."

    Which car received higher marks for fit and finish? Civic
    Which car received higher marks for exterior styling? Civic

    The only place the Elantra beat the Civic in this SECTION was in space. Don't you think your statement is a bit misleading?

    "Not surprising since the Elantra has equal to higher quality interior materials and better ergonomics than the Civic. "

    I guess according to you (sat in a Civic?), but not according to C&D.

    "80 is still higher than 76 last time I checked. "

    I guess the Powertrain, Chassis, and Experience sections should just be eliminated, leaving 80 versus 76, right? Cars are like couches. We shouldn't care about how they actually drive, only if they have a few more centimeters of space, right?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I guess the Powertrain, Chassis, and Experience sections should just be eliminated, leaving 80 versus 76, right? Cars are like couches. We shouldn't care about how they actually drive, only if they have a few more centimeters of space, right?

    You are entitled to your opinion.

    If you place utmost importance on the overall score or utmost importance on Powertrain, Chassis and Experience sections then why are you even debating the 3rd and 4th place finishers?
    #1 VW Rabbit vs. #2 Mazda 3 is the topic for you.

    If buyers were to follow your logic, Why would anyone even consider a Civic or Elantra when they can buy two other vehicles that were rated higher by C&D?

    I guess according to you the Civic must be a couch in comparision to the Rabbit and 3. :P
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    The Civic wouldn't be my first pick, but then again that's probably pretty obvious. But this isn't about my opinion, it's about your issue with an individual who stated his opinion that he felt the interior felt cheap, and handling and acceleration were subpar in comparison to the Civic. In addition to him being allowed to have an opinion, the fact that C&D supports his acceleration and handling claims should further substantiate his claims. The Civic was also rated above the Elantra in Fit & Finish...doesn't that also show his claim is not baseless?

    Had he stated the Elantra's interior felt cheap in comparison to a Kia Rio, i'm sure we would all be in agreement on that one :)
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    You had better not doubt it bud it is true. Let me start by answering your first question why did I buy a 2006 Civic instead of a Hyundai product. Well it was September 2005..gas prices spiked at over $3.00 per for the first time ever I was driving an SUV (Hyundai Santa Fe) which we liked but got less fuel economy than I cared to see. I did not like the Toyota Corolla for several reasons the biggest being you could not get several features which were technically available but unavailable because Toyota did not build them with those features for our region. I knew the previous generation Elantra was on its last legs but could not wait for the 2007 redesign. I didn't even consider Mazda..Ford etc. The new and wonderful Civic had just been released and I loved it at first sight..I considered a 2006 Sonata before gas spiked so I bought for fuel economy plus a bit of spice and of course who could go wrong with a Honda?? Right?? So there you go question 1 answered.

    1)A screwing as I would now say..by Honda
    3)Don't care..that is MY "real world" mileage take it or leave it
    4)Don't care I own a Civic and as I stated it is quiet but so is the Elantra..I don't own anything to measure db of noise (except my ears) but the Elantra was...no seemed quieter
    5)Don't care..the Civic is adequate so is the Elantra.
    6)Don't care...both handle adequately so will a go-cart but the Hyundai is more comfortable. Further the next time I circle a skidpad I'll be sure to be driving a Corvette talk about mockery!!
    8) YES I did and what proof would satisfy you my VIN ??? Atomic blue EX sedan automatic VIN 1HGFA16876l00XXXX, there you go bud. Send me your email address and I may shoot off a picture good enough??
    9)asked and answered...see above. to amplify...I liked the way it looked better than what was available at the time and was deceived by all the claims to Honda quality.
    10)What??
    I do,and intend to trade it ASAP...oh how should I make it look as thought I actually own the car? praise Honda to high heaven???? Sorry no can do.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    We own both of these cars and couldn't be happier. The 3s is a great road car and just plain fun to drive. My Civic does what a car should do...get the job done with comfort, flawless fit & finish & class leading mpg's. Tried the Elantra, Corolla, Spectra & Jetta and ended up with the Civic & the 3s. Very happy campers.
    Was truly disappointed with the Elantra/Spectra cousins. Felt like I was driving my '96 Corolla again. Very underwhelmed. Was expecting so much more from Hyundai after really enjoying a Sonata rental.
    Hopefully won't get bashed to hard here as the last 1/2 dozen posts have bordered on the nasty side. Who cares what the "figures" say, buy what "fits" within your paramaters...just leave the personalities out of the equation. Really thought we were all aults in these forums....!

    The Sandman :D
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We're supposed to all be adults. Let's drop the personal stuff, please. No one needs to try to change anyone's mind; it's not gonna happen. We all have our own set of priorities and, fortunately, we have a lot to choose from.

    It's about making the choice that is right for you. It is NOT about trying to convince others that they are not entitled to their opinion - no matter how they say they arrived at it, they are entitled to hold it without getting figuratively beaten up about it.

    Time for some deep breaths...

    I'm Pat and I approve of this message.
  • thetransp0rterthetransp0rter Member Posts: 2
    You are putting a lot of energy into debating the merits of two go-carts. Try a Mazdaspeed3 if you want to get out of the slow lane.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you pay the up-tick for the car ($7000?), the extra $$$ for gas, and ante up for the extra insurance premiums (not to mention the speeding tickets I will certainly get), you're on!
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    It seems to me the title of this particular thread is "Honda Civic verses Hyundai Elantra" You want that kind of discussion but everyone gets bent out of shape when a spirited discussion ensues. What did "you" (everyone) expect when you ask a prickly question like that in an open forum? I based my comments on the fact (questioned by some)that I own a 2006 Civic and have owned several Hyundai products. I have been vocal that I am disappointed by my choice of Honda, no surprise there. So, ask me that question and don't be surprised by my answer. Further, all the supposed superiority of the Civic as posted by a certain person was based on a road test by C&D magazine. While I find C&D entertaining I absolutely know that they are biased toward performance/handling with perhaps the more important aspects of driving an automobile in the long term relegated to the lower end of consideration in ranking one of these comparison tests. Yeah, interior space and interior peace and quiet IS important if you intend to drive the car longer than the time required to perform a road test...C&D gives em back and they don't make payments for several years. Even their own published specs seemed to contradict i.e. the Elantra was the quietest at idle, AND at a 70mph cruise yet the text states that 72mph (a mere 2 mph over that 70mph cruise)"the engine roars" give me a break, that extra 2mph or even 5 more mph won't add but 100 or 200 rpm in 5th so how does it go fron the quietest to roaring 2-5 mph faster? Now that I have received my issue of C&D, something I didn't have yesterday, I can see the Civic IS marginally quicker, .2 seconds to 60 mph which is virtually undetectable as you merge on the interstate. The Honda was 1 mph faster and .2 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile but the Hyundai was faster in a roll on from 50-70mph in 5th gear..considerably faster than the Civic and in fact faster than all other entries in this test. All which goes to point out that both are more than acceptable in every day driving. C&D had nothing but praise for the Elantra interior materials and quality and space. Average performance figures and above average fuel economy in their type driving. The Civic was praised for above average performance.. best fuel economy but was ragged for interior space, too many interior textures, the instrument package,
    and interior noise/ride quality. By the way the Civic DID NOT win that comparison but finished 1 place ahead of the Elantra, 3rd..both finished ahead of the Toyota and new Sentra. You want a discussion about the merits of those two? there you go. My posts of yesterday were based on a road test of the Elantra and having owned a 2006 Civic for over a year. None of my comments were based on the C&D road test but my own feelings and perceptions.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Both the Civic and the Elantra are fast enough to get me into serious trouble with the law. I guess this is the sporty turbo intercooled version of the standard 3? Along with performance comes increased insurance premiums, premium fuel, expensive very low profile tires that are formulated for "grip" and little else that may last 15K miles if you are careful and "you" (the targeted age group owner) probably won't be with all that power at hand. The extra maintanence for such a vehicle. Nah, it is probably fun for a few miles but all the negatives will pile up over time/miles especially if you are "over the hill" as I am..a toy, no more, no less.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    Please use paragraphs next time, it helps us read your post.

    "While I find C&D entertaining I absolutely know that they are biased toward performance/handling with perhaps the more important aspects of driving an automobile in the long term relegated to the lower end of consideration in ranking one of these comparison tests."

    Really? If C&D was only concerned about performance and handling numbers, then WHY did they pick the VW Rabbit as their NUMBER ONE pick?

    The Rabbit was neither faster to 60MPH nor the 1/4mile, had respectable, but not top marks for skidpad and lane change MPH. Could it be the fact that the VW Rabbit has an excellent, solid, stable highway ride, "superior" interior materials, impecable fit & finish, excellent driver comfort and ergonomics? Maybe it was that the Rabbit didn't drive like an economy auto like the Elantra (or look like one), or that it had standard safety systems not even available on the Elantra (or Sentra/Corolla).

    I find it humerous that the same posters who bash C&D when their car comes in at the bottom, praise the magazine when they rate a car like the Sonata well.

    Also, please explain "driving an automobile in the long term [is] relegated to the lower end of consideration in ranking one of these comparison tests"?

    So, the Elantra will be better in the long term than driving a Civic? Right, because the Civic's better fuel economy, better resale value (much), and better predicted reliability I guess should place it BELOW the Elantra?

    Please explain.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Why did they pick the Rabbit #1? I honestly don't know..I only know I would never buy any Mexican made VW (or any VW product) but that is just me and if that is what you like go for it. In any case we are discussing Civic verses Elantra so the VW is irrelevent for this discussion.
    Find it as humorous as you please I said I find C&D entertaining but I am not going to buy a long term and expensive piece of machinery based on the momentary ride and drive of a bunch guys who are already testing the next batch of latest and greatest vehicles. As I said they don't own them or pay for them. FYI the Elantra didn't come in at the bottom and yes I am pleased that Hyundai is finally being recognized as in the case of the Sonata but I still don't base my opinions entirely on the text of a five page magazine article.
    I thought I was clear but for just you here it is again..the C&D boys drive a car for a week...hook up the test gear..get some test numbers..rank them as THEY like them based on preconceived parameters (performance and handling usually bearing more "weight" than other considerations(in deference to your VW win)...publish the test...give the cars back to the manufacturers who loaned them for the test..and what, MOVE ON to the next test. They have no idea how the car will fare over the next 100K miles or 10 years or care. Their objective is to sell magazines and if you put more weight into these tests than a purely number generating exercize "for comparison only" then you loose when your #1 Mexican Rabbit turns into hunk of crap in 5 years or less (if that should happen). Being #1 in a long forgotten car magazine test won't matter as you set (sit?) in the dealer customer lounge waiting for repairs unless they have some old issues of this months C&D. You can then review the test and console yourself that your car was #1
    And I guess you should revise your poor ideas of current Hyundai products quality,reputation, resale value,customer satisfaction is better than ever surpasing VW and closing on Toyota and Honda as well. Civic fuel economy isn't that much better so that I would rush out and buy another given the disappointment with my current Civic and you dare discuss so-called Honda reliability with me? Hah, don't you read??? all three of my Hyundai cars had less trouble combined than this 6K mile Civic. I will concede one thing the Civic has great resale value, something I am greatful for. I'll get a bunch when I trade on that Sonata, thank you Honda!!!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    quote Canadian Driver Review of Elantra-
    The trim levels don't tell the full story, though, as the Elantra is an exceedingly nice car to drive. It's quiet, smooth and solid, and its engine was more than adequate in the driving conditions we encountered on the country roads and highways around Quebec City. Fuel economy is excellent, at 8.4/8.3 l/100 km city, 6.0/6.0 highway, (figures for manual/automatic), and the build quality throughout is of a very high standard. More than that, the car is extremely pleasant to sit in, with useful storage containers located in all the right places, tasteful interior fabrics and materials, tidy control layout, and unexpected touches like chrome accents for switches and instruments. Compared with luxury brands from Europe and Japan, the Elantra may have humble origins, but it has definitely been to finishing school.

    And while the five-speed manual transmission endows the Elantra with a sporty driving feel, it's the automatic that best suits the character of the car. At 120 km/h with the manual, for instance, the engine is turning at about 3,300 rpm, and is definitely audible in the passenger compartment (even with the Elantra's extra insulation and triple door seals). In comparison, at the same speed an Elantra with the automatic transmission runs at a low 2,500 rpm, and is notably quieter and smoother.

    Over potholes and abrupt changes in road surface, the Elantra is unflappable, refusing to pitch or lurch where other cars may react unpredictably. The seats are comfortable, the cabin is spacious, the car feels substantial, and owners are likely to feel well pleased with their purchase when behind the wheel.
    -end

    Having driven the Elantra I agree with the Canadian Driver review observations.

    As for quality, latest (2006) JD Power results rate Hyundai #3 and Honda #6 in the Initial Quality Study. History has shown a very strong correlation between the leaders in initial quality and leaders in long term dependability.
    Highest ranked Compact Cars in 2006 were Toyota Corolla, then Hyundai Elantra, then Honda Civic.
    Predicted reliability goes to the Elantra.

    Also, the Hyundai warranty is far superior and longer than Honda's warranty.

    Residual value is still a weak area for Hyundai vehicles. If you plan on keeping your vehicle for 3 years or less then the Honda Civic is a much better choice when it is time for resale.
    Keep in mind that Hyundai Elantra has had a lower initial purchase price than Civic due to rebates and dealer discounts that are typically can not be obtained on Honda's.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    ..I only know I would never buy any Mexican made VW :confuse:

    What does this have to do with the Rabbit? The Rabbit is not made in Mexico. The previous generation of Golf was never made in Mexico.

    As far as Mexico, would you buy a Honda or Hyundai if they were made in Mexico, what if they were made in the USA?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    My point was trying to be that the personal jabs and comments about other members need to stop. Maybe because I went on about opinions I muddied that up - if so, I'm sorry. But that's all I meant. Of course we want a spirited comparison - of the cars, though, not each other!! ;)
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    " I only know I would never buy any Mexican made VW". It has to do with a personel preference and because I do believe the Rabbit is made in Mexico. I will research it further. USA consumption Hyundai products are NOT made in Mexico so that is a moot point. It is doubtful I would buy another Honda Mexican or otherwise so that is also a moot point. And as you well know both Hyundai and Honda are made in the USA so the answer to that question is yes.
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    "when your #1 Mexican Rabbit turns into hunk of crap in 5 years or less (if that should happen). Being #1 in a long forgotten car magazine test won't matter as you set (sit?) in the dealer customer lounge waiting for repairs unless they have some old issues of this months C&D."

    When your whole argument for not purchasing a car is based on inaccuracies and incorrect assumptions, don't expect people to sit back and not respond. The fact that I've spent hours waiting for repairs (on 7 different trips) on my 2004 Elantra and still numerous problems remain is evidence of the fact that every make and model has problems. The fact that BOTH VW and Hyundai are rated far BELOW average in JDPOWER long term dependability is also a concern.

    But this thread isn't about the VW Rabbit (i've created a new thread to post there), but rather, about the Civic vs. Elantra. I merely included the Rabbit to rebut your presumption (incorrect) that C&D only cares about performance and handling numbers to pick their cars. The #1 VW Rabbit is evidence of the fact that C&D uses many factors to arrive at their decision.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The fact that I've spent hours waiting for repairs (on 7 different trips) on my 2004 Elantra and still numerous problems remain is evidence of the fact that every make and model has problems.

    You were talking about "nonsensical arguments"? How are the problems you have experienced on your Elantra, one car, "evidence of the fact that every make and model has problems"?

    Do you know a car model that is problem-free? Have you seen the Civic problems discussion on Town Hall lately?
  • germancarfan1germancarfan1 Member Posts: 221
    Not sure how that is nonsensical. Hyundai is held in such high esteem here that mentioning that even the Elantra has problems shows that every car has issues at some point.

    "Have you seen the Civic problems discussion on Town Hall lately?"

    A brief glance at the 13 pages indicates abysmal problems in headrests and cupholders. I'm certainly not buying a Civic now.

    Please don't turn this into a discussion about how the Elantra has better reliability than the Civic. You don't have the numbers and I don't have the strength :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Look again at the problems on the 2006+ Civic: leaking struts, "lug bug" issue with the engine/transmission, crunching gearshifts, suspension noise, wind roar, problems with A/C controls, paint issues etc. Much more than "headrests and cupholders". I could post some quotes if you don't believe me, but I don't have the time (or the strength?).

    This is not to say that the Elantra is more reliable than the Civic overall, but that the Civic isn't the paragon of reliability that most people think it is, especially in its first year or so of a new design. The 2001 Civic had a lot of problems also, most of which had been corrected by 2002.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Of course, all those inaccuracies and incorrect assumptions tend to be messy don't they but didn't you see the disclaimer...if that should happen? As I said it is a personal preference (mine) not to buy a VW product whether the Rabbit is made in Mexico or Hong Kong and if it turns out it isn't made in Mexico oops, my bad but that doesn't change my opinion. In fact I am not trying to influence anybody to purchase anything. I do not sell cars for a living. I only presented my experience with a 1 year old Civic. In this thread entitled Civic verses Elantra I felt those experiences would be useful..or not. Take them or leave them at this point I care not.
    C&D is entertainment I like reading it but would more likely use Consumer Reports if I used magazine testing to find a choice of cars. Maybe I am misreading this whole issue but it seems to be about magazine rankings in a test to prove one brand better than another, not so. Here is my final word on this to prospective buyers, drive all the makes and models within your price range, pick whatever issues you care about most,quality, standard features, fuel economy, handling, ride, interior space, trunk volume,safety,color etc. and find the car that fill most of them best for you...good luck! Psst. buy Hyundai, just kidding!!
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Well said..as a 2006 Civic owner I can attest to that. Honda isn't the paragon of reliabilty I expected either. But I also don't have the strength to go on some will never be convinced.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Please don't turn this into a discussion about how the Elantra has better reliability than the Civic. You don't have the numbers and I don't have the strength

    JD Power has the numbers.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    C&D is entertainment I like reading it but would more likely use Consumer Reports if I used magazine testing to find a choice of cars.

    I take both magazines. They're both entertaining. But C/R doesn't tell you a lot about brand new cars generally, and C/D does. C/R is more useful for older cars to measure their performance and durability.

    Better than both, is personal experience, which I have, since I buy a fair amount of them each year. The Hyundai seems to have their crap together now, finally. But driving it is still not as sporty as the Accord, nor as smooth and easy to drive as the Camry. They offer a bargain, and you get what you pay for. The warranty is great - but they hold up well these days.

    Get what you like, and drive them all to see, that's what I recommend.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Please don't turn this into a discussion about how the Elantra has better reliability than the Civic. You don't have the numbers and I don't have the strength

    JD Power has the numbers


    Well, in initial quality, Hyundai is at least equal to Honda. But in the feel of the drive, the car quality, and long term performance, it is not yet established that Hyundai is as good. It isn't.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Have you owned Elantras for over 6 years, as I have? Then maybe you can give first-hand testamony to the "feel of the drive", the quality, and the long-term performance of Hyundais vs. Hondas (which I have owned also).

    Back in 2000 I could have purchased the all-new 2001 Civic instead of the all-new 2001 Elantra. In fact the Civic was my top choice "on paper". Just based on the cars themselves, I'm really glad I didn't. The fact I saved over $6000 in buying the Hyundai was icing on the cake.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Backy, as you know from my other posts, I too have previously owned Hondas and Toyotas. Resale value "still" is a problem with Hyundais, but I think this may be slowing changing. The point is, I seriously considered a new Civic when I bought my 2006 Elantra last December. But, the price differential for comparably equipped models - actual delivered price including TTL - was $6,500 in the Elantra's favor.

    There's no doubt the Elantra will depreciate faster than the Civic - but, I already have a positive $6,500 cash flow differential. Sometimes, I don't think this initial differential is taken into account. And, not a single quality or warranty-related problem with the Elantra after 11 months. By that time with my last Civic, I already had 3 warranty repairs.

    Since I keep my cars at least 10 years, sometimes 20, residual value and/or depreciation rate is somewhat a moot argument anyway.
  • blaze07blaze07 Member Posts: 10
    moparbad, THANK YOU!!!
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    This is a bit off topic...but I figured a little real life survey I did, though not mathematical, but a random sampling could give a real life clue into the buying preferences of middle class Americam workers. Here goes...and I apologize if the hosts deem this post wayyyy off topic.
    I work as a letter carrier, though recently injured, at a small annex with about 80 employees. We're all middle class workers with hourly wages. I did a quick survey recently and found about a 60/40 split of foreign brands versus American automobiles. Chevy & Dodge/Chtysler amount for over 50% of the American brands. But Honda/Toyota account for just over 75% of the foreign brands with 5 new '06 Civics on the lot. The rest of the foreign brands have some Nissans & 2 Hyundai/Kia models.
    Not a very scientific sampling here & I know that I'll get ripped to shreads here, but I have to say that I was not surprised at all by my finding. It just proved to me that "in this sampling" of middle class working folk, the benefits of a longer warranty and lower price of the "Korean brands" still haven't changed their market share all that much & they still have a ways to go against the other major foreign players.
    Like I said, this is just an unscientific random sample of my office and the kind of cars my co-workers choose to own. The one major conclusion that I came away with is that the reputation & perceived superior quality still influences people's buying decision, especially automobiles. Just thought I'd share this little experiment I did!

    The Sandman :)
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Statistically small sample, but still valid . . . I agree that reputation and perception is practically everything. It took the Japanese cars a decade or two to convince most consumers, and it will take the Koreans at least that long, perhaps longer. This is one of the primary reasons why many continued to buy Detroit iron in the '70s! But, those who bought Japanese cars ahead of the curve and against conventional thinking were the winners. Some could argue the same is true for those who are now buying Korean cars.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I just wonder if similar results would be seen with a more affluent sampling which has greater disposable income to spend on transportation. Would be interesting to see these results.
    On a side note, I did have the opportunity to sit in a new Azerra and was totally blown away by what I felt & saw. Excellent ergonomics, great fluidity in the controls and the feeling that everything fell to hand...everything felt to be in the right place with that tactile (?) feel that the foreign brands naturally have. Didn't get any road time, but was duly impressed. And the bang for the buck variable is definitely there. I also really enjoyed my Sonata rental almost as much, but I've stated that numerous times in these forums. The mpg's on these models just need to get closer to the Honda/Toyota duo & watch out world.
    Also, I did happen to see a couple of new Elantra's this week on the road and was very intriqued with the car from the C pillar back. Looks like a more upscale & larger car than I would have imagined. The photos on the Hyundai website do an injustice to this car. It's much nicer in person and if it indeed drives and has the quality that it needs in this highly contested market, Hyundai just might of hit a bullseye. Just like the rest of the lineup, Hyundai needs to get the mpg numbers up about 10%, and I have no doubt that this will happen within a few year.
    I really do wish Hyundai luck in this endevor. They've finally come into the 21st century as an automaker, and dare I say it...I might even consider a Hyundai within the next 5 to 7 years!

    The Sandman :)
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    I know of at least two families who drive a Hyundai, and one that drives a Kia (Sedona), and all of these families have incomes in excess of $150,000. For these families, they always pay cash for the cars and choose to invest their money in real estate and bonds, and not automobiles. I know they're certainly in the minority, and really skew the statistics as to who typically purchases a Hyundai or Kia, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless. Conversely, I wonder how many folks who drive a BMW, M-B, etc., are heavily levered, and deeply into debt??

    I agree on the new Elantra. The pics on the website do not do it justice. I drove a 2007 yesterday, and the interior is a big step up from the previous generation. MPG's do need to improve to be competitive with Honda and Toyota however.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually, the Elantra gets better fuel economy than the Honda of comparable (interior) size--the Accord. Remember, the Elantra is mid-sized, not a compact like the Civic or Corolla. I think it is the top-rated (EPA) non-hybrid mid-sized car for fuel economy.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    I have owned Hyundai's since Aug of 1999.
    Here's what we owned:
    1999 Sonata GLS-V6(at the time, the top of the line model) Had it from Aug 99-Sept 04. 118,000+ miles.
    2001 Tiburon, base model(June 01-Sept 04) 103,000+ miles.
    2004 GLS V6 Sonata( still have it) Sept 04- current.
    Miles: 36,000.

    Problems: 99 Sonata:
    Needed new alternator @88,000
    Needed new turn signal stalk(yes, you read correctly)at 93,000
    Needed new raditator at 103,000.
    Needed new water pump at 115,000.
    Went in 3 times for "computer chip-module" for the "fuzzy logic" shifting.
    Evap- flap(forgot what it's call, recircualtion valve , by gas tank, to collect gas fumes, and put 'em back into the tank?).... at 85,000.
    Nice car, BUT IRRITATING.
    2001 Tibby
    New fron axles and bearings at 99,303
    103,000+ auto tranny needed replaced, so we dumped the car for the Sonata(Unfortunately).
    2004 Sonata;
    Both back window gaskets and motors(power windows) needed replaced. One in July, One in Sept of this year, between 32-34,000 miles. Got harrassed about fixing it, so I threatened to call the District Factory Rep for ameeting at the dealership, they suddenly became co-operative again.

    Another gripe? We have cloth, and it is already wearing prematurely :mad: :surprise:
    The armrest, center console? and where you open and close the door, from the inside, is wearing, badly.

    --------------------------------------------------------
    We will never buy another Hyundai again in my household.

    As for Honda: well, my father in law(2 years ago) went to buy an Element, but they refused to knock off 1 red cent(were actually Arrogant when he spoke to them in person).
    December of 2004, they sent him an e-mail, saying" 1,399 off all Elements!" :mad:
    he relied" you are 3 months too late". he would have been glad with 1K off msrp in Sept.
    He now has a new SX4, Suzuki(*his 3rd Suzuki, really, if you inclulde th e90 tracker with 217,000 , and the 97 with 97,000, NO PROBLEMS, except the Trackers are like farm implements, the SX4? Excellent!).

    Anyhow.
    All cars I have owned had some issues:
    77 camaro: rusted like crazy, stalled alot thansk to the carb on it.
    87 "chevy" Spectrum: needed brakjes every 18,000 miles(pads), new master Cylinder @ 14,000 miles( back then, a warranty was 12,000, or 1 year), just a pain.
    90 sentra xe: stalled out at 7000 due to timing not set properly at factory or dealership. New stereo at 9000 miles, and re-glued door protection strip back on at 9,700 miles.
    Pitted badly once we moved back up North(was in military )due to road cinders on snowy roads... like sand blasting the door panels.
    97 200sx: 66K.... died due to timing chain jumped one notch, and needed starter rebuilt, ignition coil, new timing gear, etc... big pain.

    The rest is above, in the Hyundai comments, except for our 2004 Scion tC automatic. Great Little car, except it needed the wiper blade arm, passenger side, fixed, 2 times, in 6 weeks, in 2005. Also, 1 recall for sunroof .
    nearly 70,000 in 26 months.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    I just don't get into dealerships that act like you should pay them for being opened and selling you a car, lol.
    Toyota and Honda are good, btu i knwo Many people working 2 jobs now, or PT, etc, and can not afford more than maybe 10-12K, and they buy Accent or Elantra's on sale, due ot warranty(most people I know only drive maybe 10,000 miles a year, too).
    Or they buy a (on sale) Cobalt, or new Aveo.
    it has 5/100K on these.

    If people had the cash to throw around, yeah, they might buy a Accord or Top Of The Line(nearly 20K) Civic.

    relative who got the SX4 paid less than 15,000.
    AWD or FWD, flip of a switch.
    30 MPG.
    7/100K warranty.

    Most people who I know own Honda get them used, because they can't afford new, and loaded up like they want.
    Fit? They don't want one. they want a "normal" sized car, in case, well, one of these 8 tons SUV's hit them.
    ;)
    take care/not offense.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Let me start by stating I have a history here for being too ah, controversial. With that in mind I'll say that most, if not all the problems you encountered on the Hyundai products were more or less normal with regard to the miles at which they occurred. On your first Sonata: An alternator @ nearly 90K miles isn't too unusual. A water pump at over 110K miles? once again not too unusual. You don't state what happened to the radiator. Did a rock puncture it? Most modern cars have an aluminum core and plastic tank construction radiator which I have found to be less that ideal in my experience with Ford products (various Taurus and Sable cars) so I won't comment on the disposition of this one. The turn signal stalk usually controls various functions these days so one of those switches on this multi-function control could have crapped out..somewhat unusual but not unheard of. Fuzzy logic chip failure? I happen to work in electronics so I am aware how flakey they (microcircuits) can be..they will either work forever or die now, and again tomorrow and the day after that but electronics are generally reliable and this may have been a mishandling of the component by the service tech because microcircuits are prone to be damaged by static (ESD or electrostatic discharge).
    On the tiburon: wheel bearings/alxe shafts @ 100K miles? This is a bit premature but the rubber bellows that cover the actual joints (CVJ and DOJ)could have been ripped and not detected/replaced in a timely fashion allowing contaminents to destroy those items early..of course I don't know your maintainence habits I am just speculating here. The transmission?? again after having owned a few Taurus/Sable's I am not unfamiliar with transmission problems, some much earlier than 103K miles so while I won't comment on the fact it died relatively early it isn't unheard of either.
    On the 04 Sonata: having to replace window lift motors at any time is fairly common, they usually have plastic gears and they strip out, additionally you state that window gaskets were replaced at the same time. Could it be the gaskets jammed the windows in some fashion and caused the motors to burn out early?? Fabric seat material wear..that is another item subject to lots of abuse and cannot be said to last X amount of years with certainty. Sure it should be fairly durable but who can predict. All in all the Hyundai products didn't, in my opinion, show any really unusual behavior as far as failures with the possible exception of the transmission and without knowing your maintainence habits that too could have been something avoidable.
    Just a short personal experience..my son is driving a 2000 Elantra with 149,000 miles (We are the 2nd owner)and aside from some problems with front rotors(Hyundai replacements seemed to warp early) routine brake pad and tire replacement and 1 alternator @145,000 miles it has been trouble free. So for every person who says as you do "We will never buy another Hyundai again in my household" I can counter with how great our experiences have been. By the way,why are you so negative about Hyundai? Most of these failures are normal for any brand auto and not at unusually low mileages.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "Most people who I know own Honda get them used, because they can't afford new, and loaded up like they want"

    I was having a hard time deciphering this, but I think you were trying to say that most people that you know that buy Hondas, buy them used because they can't afford new ones.

    If this is what you are saying, I would have to disagree. Most people I know (myself included - I bought a new Honda back in March), buy them new, because people that try to sell slightly used Hondas seem to be under the impression that they hardly depreciate at all, and don't make it worth it to buy a slightly used one versus a brand new one. When we bought our new Honda back in March, we got it for about $1000 more than what I was being quoted for 2 year old models of the same trim level with 20,000+ miles on them. For me, it was a no brainer to drop $1000 more for a brand new version.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    If I may chime in here is what I own in Hyundais.

    2000 Elantra Wagon (still own closing in on 140K miles)

    2002 Accent (still own with 90+K miles)

    Problems with the 2000 Elantra
    Exhaust manifold cracked and replaced under warranty @ 120k Miles

    Problems with the 2002 Accent
    None.

    Of course the Elantra is showing her age, she doesn't ride as smooth as she used to, engine is a little noisy and road noise seems to be louder than it was at first. And she doesn't seem to be as fast as she used to be. But then she has survived 6 midwest winters, 1,000's of miles of dirt and gravel roads, several farmers fields, one fording of a creek and 140K miles so I am not complaining.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    But then she has survived 6 midwest winters, 1,000's of miles of dirt and gravel roads, several farmers fields, one fording of a creek and 140K miles so I am not complaining.

    Sounds like the pioneers needed your car when traveling the Oregon Trail! ;)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Naw I don't think it would have survives that.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Haha... I just liked the part where you mention fording a creek in the Elantra. Just gives me a silly mental picture in my mind. I love it...

    I think I'm gonna go 4-wheeling in my old Accord this weekend, see how she does in some soft clay mud. :P

    I'm proud for you with your successes with your vehicles. Shows that you have maintained them well.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    As I said it was a creek, maybe a few inches deep with a bottom of polished rocks. Really wasn't that hard to cross, we were following an old rutted road (used to be a stage coach trail) now occasionally used by horse back riders, farmers (for their tractors) and more adventurous drivers.

    At this crossing there is a nice paved road with a nice bridge about 100 yards up stream, but at that time it was closed being rebuilt. The detour was about 5 miles or so and all the locals were bypassing that using this little crossing. That was until the state closed off the access.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As I said it was a creek, maybe a few inches deep with a bottom of polished rocks. Really wasn't that hard to cross, we were following an old rutted road (used to be a stage coach trail) now occasionally used by horse back riders, farmers (for their tractors) and more adventurous drivers.

    At this crossing there is a nice paved road with a nice bridge about 100 yards up stream, but at that time it was closed being rebuilt. The detour was about 5 miles or so and all the locals were bypassing that using this little crossing. That was until the state closed off the access.


    Either way, it still makes a funny mental pic. I'm not knocking you, or your vehicle, please understand that... :)

    I just like the idea of a compact-car turned rugged mountain climber. It would be like Alex Trebek taking Stallone's role in "Rambo." Just a funny mental image.
  • percussionistpercussionist Member Posts: 204
    Since this is called "Civic vs. Elantra", I'll make some quick comments here. I have never owned an Elantra, though I have driven them as rentals, and some close friends of mine will buy nothing else, as they are so comfortable.

    However, I have owned 3 Civics, and I'll tell you all about them.
    95 - CX hatch - no air, no power anything, great little car for commuting, sold in '02 b/c I bought my sister's '96 Corolla which had more room and all power, AC, etc. (I still have that car w/175K miles, and it's awesome!)

    01 - DX sedan - added AC to car (it did not come in that trim) we thought it would be as reliable as the 95 was. The manual transmission (something CR has claimed Honda is well known for quality for at least 10 years) failed at 87K miles. Dealer told us $1800 would fix it. (If it had been a Hyundai, this repair would have been free) We did not fix it, as it was only worth $4000 at the time. We traded it w/my dad, who traded our car for an 06 Corolla.

    99 - LX Sedan - this is the car we received in trade from dad. It is probably the least enjoyable car I've ever driven, and that includes some real clunkers. Car squeaks constantly, engine whines, AT shifts strangely IMO, but it runs every day and goes point A to B.

    We are planning to buy a new car in Jan., and will probably buy the Elantra for warranty and features or a Camry for build quality and reliability. We will not consider a Honda this time around. In fact, even though our 99 Honda has 70K less miles on it than our 96 Corolla, we will keep the Corolla and trade in the Honda, as we believe it will outlast the Honda.

    Just a side note, my family and I are maintainance freaks about all our cars. They are kept clean and all fluids regularly changed.

    Thanks for reading!
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