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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra
I'm considering a second car. It's between Hyundai
and Honda. I know that Honda is more reliable but
Hyundai has a better warrenty. I need help.
and Honda. I know that Honda is more reliable but
Hyundai has a better warrenty. I need help.
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
As for reliability, Hyundai is believed to have improved considerably. I do not know if this is the case since I have owned my vehicle for all of six months. I did develop a minor problem with my horn that was promptly fixed by the dealer. You would be covered for 5 years/60K bumper to bumper.
I believe that the car has a solid feel to it. Closing the doors greets you with a considerable thunk and the fit and finish is fine for a car in this class range. Overall, I am very satisfied with my vehicle.
Read the fine print on these warranties!
The best warranty is the one you never have to use!
Also, please consider the resale down the road. Hyundais are almost impossible to unload as used cars. They are almost as bad as Kia!
It's the total long term cost of ownership that really counts in the long run!
Boltguy
I agree that they are probably better than in the past. Still, for the money, I would much rather buy something used with a better record.
and...no, it doesn't have to be a Honda either. I just think there are MUCH better choices but, that's just my opinion.
the terrible resale values speak for themselves.
Maybe this buyer would like to hear from someone who has owned a Hyundai. Not someone spewing propaganda about the cars they sell. Early Hyundai's were crap, most everyone can agree on that. And the warranty is partially to ease the mind of potential buyers who only remember the late 80's - early 90's Excels.
But that "marketing tool" will help resale values as it carries over to used Hyundai buyers also. Do you remember when early Honda's were being bashed for poor quality and reliability? I sure do. Hyundai has grown up and learned from early mistakes (like Honda).
Hyundai Elantra's have more horsepower, a longer warranty, more standard features, and are a few thousand less than a Civic. Now that speaks for itself.
I'm sure this person plans on test driving both makes. Why don't you give it a try? We won't tell any of your co-workers. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Boltguy
It has had its share of problems, but mostly cosmetic and annoying (the glove box latch broke after 2 years, the dimmer switch fell out shortly after, the overhead light never worked right, the gauges could never be trusted - and after 5 years, the odometer/speedometer died - I think I had almost 120k on it before the engine died last night. But overall, no major problems. The only money I ever put into was for normal stuff - tires, brakes, oil, etc.
But I bought it right out of college because it was all I could afford at the time. I was never truly enamoured of it, but it got me from point A to point B ok. My wife hated it because it was "unsafe."
I am now eyeballing the Hyundai Elantra as 1) A good value; 2) In my budget and 3) Reliabe.
That is the key thing. Not only do I expect it to be as mechanically sound, but if things like knobs start falling off after a year or two, I would rather pay a couple thousand extra for a solid make.
Has this gotten better all around?
I have driven late model Hyundais and find them to be a vast improvement over the earlier models.
Sti,, I think they are pretty lackluster. I guess if a person is determined to buy a new rather than a used car, and initial price is the most important thing, they may not be a terrible choice.
Still, we cringe when a customer wants to trade one in. As a used car, they simply don't sell!
And, THAT is not my humbel opinion, it is reality!
When we call the local Hyundai dealers for buy bids, they either don't want them or bid thousands of dollars below book. Same applies with Kias.
I'm not here to bash anything, nor am I here to promote my own product. I am simply stating things from my perspective.
I do respect Hyundai for surviving against all odds!
When I bought it, I wanted a Civic. But my realistic choice was between a *used* Civic or a new Hyundai. The price on my Elantra was $10,600, and that was with zero miles, air conditioning, AM/FM cassette, and the 60/100K warranty... that's all standard.
For S10,600, I was looking at '96 model Civics with 30-50K miles! Hondas do hold their resale value, for sure, but if the choice is between a 3-year-old car with 30K and no warranty, or a new car...
As far as considering a *new* Honda, a base 3-door with air ($1000 option) and radio ($250 aftermarket) would have run almost $11,500. A 4-door would run over $13,000. By that time, you might as well consider an DX/EX for $15,000+, which brings it into base Camry, Tarus, etc. range. If you're going to pay $16K for a new small car, why not go for a recent used BMW 318ti?
The point is, nobody makes a base model car that comes remotely near the $11K Hyundai Elantra, period. If you were to debate the merits of the $14K GLS Hyundai vs. the $15K Civic DX/EX, then you've got a debate.... but that's no choice at all.
Hyundai sells a base model that you can live with, Honda doesn't.
-CSMarmot
But, just thinking, why not do one better, and buy a used Hyundai instead? These things take such a terrible depreciation beating in the first couple of years, that a 1 or 2 year old can be bought for a pittance! Now, that, in my opinion would be a much better value!
Some dealer would probably be tickled to sell a slow mover at a distressed price.
Now I have a Honda Civic, 1990. True, it has more power than my old car, but the reputation for Honda's lasting forever is overrated. I have had to spend at least a couple thousand dollars in repairs, and it's on it's last legs at 160,000 miles. I'm going to let the old girl die with dignity, but my new car will be an Elantra. Frankly, I just can't afford a Honda. True it may be a better car, but you can't always afford the best. Hyundai's are a very good second choice, especially since you get so much for the money. Look at Saturns too. They won't even give you air conditioning unless you buy the highest S model. If Hyundai's have improved since 1989, that's good enough for me since I was happy with my old car.
And by the way I have a theory about the old Hyundai's. They were cheap cars, so people treated them as throw away cars. I treated mine like a Cadillac, so it treated me back the same way.
As for Hyundai surviving against all odds. It is doing more than surviving it is breaking its own sales records. Some months sales increases have been 100% over last years.
I'm glad you had good luck with your Hyundai. I'm sure many others would agree with you. I don't think they were horrible cars. I think though they reflected the low prices they sold for. In 1989, they were pretty crude when compared to other cars. Consumer Reports blasted them for poor reliability and listed them as a car to avoid.
You made a good point, though. Maybe the low price attracted buyers who skimped on oil changes and skipped important service visits.
bri70,
Yeah, I think lackluster sums it up pretty well. They just don't do much for me. If you can please forget the fact I sell Hondas, I would MUCH rather spend the same amount and buy a used car I really like instead.
I feel the same way about Saturns. Buyers pay full MSRP for a car that isn't much more than a glorified Cavalier.
Please folks, I'm not here to promote Hondas or to slam Hyundais. I'm only stirring the pot by stating my opinions.
Given past reputation and the fact that they are SO hard to sell used, I just think there are better choices.
But...That is my humble opinion and I respect the fact that some will disagree with me!
isellhondas is also correct on the resale value. People don't want them used. It is a car to buy if you want a NEW car but don't want to pay that much, just like Kia and Daewoo. It holds no water in the used car market.
I paid 12.5K for my 2000 Elantra GLS. Kelly's list a 1999 Elantra GLS from 10,700 to 14,330. In fact when I compare the exact car that I bought, plug in the mileage I expect to do in a year (15K), I get a suggested retail value of $12,050. The 2000 Elantra depreciated all of $450 from the 1999 model. Not bad at all. Worse than average resale value I think is fast becoming another obsolete view of Hyundai.
Hyundai build an unforgetably cheap car a few years back, and this has had an effect on thier image (rightfully).
Yet, the current models, if not market leaders, appear to be "ready for prime time".
Let me bring you back to '73-75. A Japanese motorcycle maker was beginning its importation of cars to the US. It quickly bacame known that these cars were practicaly undriveable while cold. This was bad for that fledgling automaker, now the #2 imported vehicle, of course this is Honda. Those vehicles were pretty undesirable used, too.
Is the Hyundai less desirable than the Honda? Right now, YES. But it is also 10% less, and if I had the choice of a stripped Civic, or an Elantra w/ AC, power goodies, and the warranty, well, I'd stop to think...
The elantra i just got and it had some minor problems. Just treat them right and they'll last atleast a decade
The thing is that Elantra is as reliable as Honda Civic.
In fact, early 90s Civic's AIS reliability rating is lower than the Elantra's and its reliability has been widely exaggerated by the owners over the years.
And to the person who said resale value was just as good for the Elantra...yeah right. I checked the trade for a 99 Elantra with 15k in excellent condition with all options (auto, roof, alloys, power pack, etc) and the trade was $10,---, a comparable Civic was worth $16,---.... you do the math.
here you go:
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/UsedRelOver/Honda/Civic/Used.asp
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/UsedRelOver/Hyundai/Elantra/Used.asp
"I would like you to find ANYTHING that
backs up your statement that the Elantra is just as reliable as a Civic. I don't think you will find anything that comes even remotely close to saying that."
Looks like you have to eat your words.
isell_mitsus1.... don't you think that those numbers are a little incorrect?... say one is wholesale (elantra) and the other is retail (civic).
The way i see it is that those numbers seemed to be doctored up....
"And to the person who said resale value was just
as good for the Elantra...yeah right. I checked
the trade for a 99 Elantra with 15k in excellent
condition with all options (auto, roof, alloys,
power pack, etc) and the trade was $10,---, a
comparable Civic was worth $16,---.... you do the
math."
Wait a minute. I did not say that the resale value of an Elantra is just as good. What I said was that it is becoming average. I do believe that the Civic does hold its resale value better than the Elantra. I would not buy an economy car with the idea of selling it down the road. So this is not an issue with me. Even so, the Elantra's below average resale value is becoming fiction.
The numbers you stated, are they for Civic SI? What service did you use to check, Edmunds? Kelly's? As it has already been pointed out; who would buy a used Civic for 16K?
They are "back of book" cars...big time!
I am NOT saying they are *bad* cars. I am saying that they are an absolute DOG on the used car market. Few people will buy one and they sell for thousands BELOW book!
It's not fiction but pure fact! Who knows, maybe someday that could change?
Andes links were amusing. I have NO IDEA how this rating system happened. In my experience, the 91-93 Civics were bulletproof reliable, and really no worse than the current models.
I'm sure the opinion of another publication would differ. The current issue of Consumer's Reports give 1/2 red dots for Civic Engines in the years 92-93, and full red dots for 94's and newer.
So, I guess they disagree with Car Point.
And Consumer's Reports didn't even bother to rate Hyundai. Almost like they don't even exhist!
Probably not enough on the road for a sampling?
They are not based on someone's opinion or experience.
If you keep talking about opinions, then I have
to question your intelligence.
Consumer Reports do not rate reliability of cars.
They just publish the results of subscriber survey. Ask them why a rating system is not in place. They'll tell you that it's not fair to
rate cars reliability without actual repair data.
And, I stand by my statement that 1991-1993 Civic engines are VERY reliable. That's why I was surprised by the data you provided.
And, yes, that's my opinion which is based on quite a bit of front line experience.
It's March 22 today.
Example: 1991-1993 Honda Civic's had problems with the distributor, main relay, and fuel ignitor. If you have all three of these fixed it comes up to a total of $200. The Hyundai on the other hand exhibited problems with premature timing belt failure, engine valves (as a result of the timing belt) and the ECU. These items together total approx $2,000. You do the math. Let's see would I rather have a car that is worth $4,000 that I have to do $200 worth of repairs on or would I rather have a car that is worth $600 and do $2,000 worth of repairs... I don't know.. I may have to consult my psychic on this one.
Which brings up resale. You doubt my numbers here ya go. All of these are verifiable at www.kbb.com and www.carsdirect.com.
2000 Honda Civic EX with automatic transmission
www.carsdirect.com price = $16,341
www.kbb.com resale = $15,235
(kbb for 1999 15k in exc. condition)
$1,106 depreciation = 7% value drop/93% retained value
2000 Elantra GLS w/ automatic tranny and equivalent EX Civic options
www.carsdirect.com price = $13,264
www.kbb.com resale = $10,440
(kbb for 1999 15k in excellent condition)
$2,824 depreciation = 21% drop/79% retained value
So thanks for offering but I will be eating my baked chicken and cherry cheesecake, not my words.
Where does the report say the Elantra timing belts fail prematurely? It says it's a periodic problem.
The reason the belt failures are described as periodic failure is that the indy shop techs who don't know how to tension the belt properly keep changing them until they decide to ask for help.
Here's one example of a smart tech who asked fellow techs about the correct timing-belt installation procedure in advance on the iATN mailing list.
==================================================
1993 Hyundai Elantra 1.6 L
Trans: Automatic
Mileage: 130,000 mi
VIN: KMHJF22R6RU55003X
Misc Data: engine family 1.6GJVGAEA
Affected Item: Timing belts
___________________________FIX:___________________
I learned,from Paul Baldassarre, administrator, tech.assistance line,of Hyundai Motor America, and several others, that some early production (before 6/8/92)1.6's came without ballance shafts.After that they have them & the proceedure is the same as the 1.8's. I mention the 1.8 because Mitchell,Autodata,& possibly others don't give info. on the ballance shafts of any year 1.6! Because the rear shaft is
driven by the oil pump sprocket,and not at a 1 to 1 ratio,it is not enough to simply line up the index mark.Remove the 14mm hex bolt found on block, behind tail end of compressor(or starter), and ensure that a #2 phillips screwdriver will insert aprox. 60mm while indexed.Be aware that two special tools are specified for tensioning the
main t-belt.All of this is in Mitchell & Autodata but you need to look at text for 1.8! I also believe that their labor times are incorrect for the 1.6.The ballance shafts makes it worth a few extra tenths,and more if you change the (2 extra)seals!Thanks to everyone who responded! There are some sharp Hyundai guys out there!
____________________ORIGINAL MESSAGE:__________
Dear fellow members, Am doing t-belts on engine that has complaint of vibration & has had belts replaced before. I remember doing a similar Mitsubishi engine in the past & learned about the indexing hole/pin arrangement to ensure proper timing of rear ballance shaft. My concern this time is that Mitchell only refers to doing this on the 1.8 engine,not the 1.6! I am hoping that information is correct( because the A.C. compressor is mounted low on the back of the block ,where I would guess the inspection hole would be). Don't want to find out the hard way that this information is wrong! Can anyone confirm the proceedure on the 1.6? I have checked the archives,but only found reference to other engines. Thanks greatly,in advance,
Sincerely, xxx xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx@hotmail.com
Technician
Colonial Foreign Car Service, Inc.
Williamsburg, Virginia, USA
iATN Sponsoring Member
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About the ECU and ISC motor in early 90s Elantras
,do you know they were made by Mitsubishi Electric?
Ask an experienced factory-trained tech in your dealership how common the failures of these two parts are in old Mitsubishis.
92-93 Civics got 4 out of 5 in the reliability rating and you can't change the number by saying the problems are insignificant.
You say distributor, main relay and oxygen sensor failures are insignificant, but it's your personal, uneducated opinion that nobody cares to listen and doesn't hold water when the ratings are based on statistical analyses of the largest repair database in the nation.
And lastly, why are you quoting car prices?
I'm not buying a car from you. :P
The Civic is a good car, that fact is other car manufactures have caught up and surpassed Honda in quality/reliability/value. It was bound to happen, its called economic evolution. The Civic is a has been.
As for performance, according to Edmunds the Civic EX does 0-60 in 8.5 and the Elantra is 0-60 in 10.5. So where's the beef in the Elantra? Yes it has 13 more HP... but where's it at?
Vince8: I don't see how anyone can say the Civic is a "has-been". "Has-been" the best selling small car on the market maybe, "has-been" one of the highest rated small cars on the market in reliability and drivability maybe. Please tell me what make/model has surpassed the Civic in reliability/value/quality.
Special financing is not a sign that Civics are slipping, if that were the case all makes/models are slipping. I don't call 3.9% interest for 36 months giving the car away, do you?
andes: What facts have I distorted? I simply explained the Carpoint rating system and listed the costs that THEY said an owner would incur to fix it.
Why do you need to resort to name calling? Uneducated? Let me tell you one thing, calling names, insulting people, and being obnoxious will not help you get your point across. It makes YOU look like the one that is "uneducated". Strength of argument doesn't lie in who can call the most names or get the most insults in, strength of argument comes from knowing the facts, which you don't seem to know. It clearly shows that there were problems for more than 1 year with the Hyundai timing belt, not just the models produced before 1992.
You have shown ONE link that AT FIRST GLANCE would appear to show that the Hyundai is just reliable. But as I showed.. would you rather pay $200 for repairs on a $4,000 car or $2,000 in repairs on a $600 car? Answer seems pretty obvious even to my uneducated brain. I could show link upon link upon link showing how reliable the Civic is. Read Consumer Reports, look at IntelliChoice. What makes the Carpoint link any more believable than CR or Intellichoice?
comparable optionwise to me."
You are paying 3 thousand dollars more for those comparable options. There is nothing in the Civic that the Elantra lacks.
"As for performance, according to Edmunds the Civic
EX does 0-60 in 8.5 and the Elantra is 0-60 in
10.5. So where's the beef in the Elantra? Yes it
has 13 more HP... but where's it at?"
The Elantra's low-end torque is poor (though my car does better than 10.5), but at highway speeds; forget the Civic EX, the Elantra will have little problems passing a Civic EX.
Also, I remember racing a kid in a lime green Elantra with a purple stripe and a Folger's can exhaust. I was in a 1998 Civic EX sedan w/ manual transmission. It was closer from the start and I started pulling away with every shift. But that's subjective so I will stick with what Edmunds has to say.
Yes you are paying $3,000 more for the Civic but isn't a Hyundai more than a Kia? Does that mean you should buy the Kia? A car's value and dependibility are not just measure by initial cost. You have to take other factors into consideration.
Instead, I talk to the techs in our shop. Yes, they tell me, some early 90's Hondas had distributors that wore out prematurely. Big deal!
Was it 10%, 20% 25% ?? I don't know and neither do they. They tell me it wasn't that big of a number. Most never failed.
A bad distributor is NOT a bad engine! They will cause the engine to misfire, and I guess if a person were able to ignore these symptoms for a long time, the car could probably stop running.
Vince...You think the Civic is a "has been" ?
Think again, and wait a few months when the totally new Civic hits the market!
I guess that would make a Hyundai a "never was" ?
Isell mitsu...I think you for bring sanity to this forum. You have more patience than I do, and you do a good job of setting the record straight!
bill1170: Yes they do. I optioned them out with the same equipment using carsdirect.com and listed all options accordingly on kbb.com.
You are right, the numbers aren't perfect. But it will give you a good idea of the market for the car. It does depend on what the market will bare but I can't think of any market where the Hyundai would do as well as the Civic.
I know our company shies heavily away from the Hyundais and Kias because of warranty issues, desirability, and overall reliability. Actually one of our finance companys refuses to finance Hyundais due to the overwhelming % of repossessions that occur with that make for one reason or another. I have been working for my company for almost 2 years now and have yet to see a Hyundai for sale on our lot. I have seen a few on some of our other lots but I think I could count them on one hand.
If you do not care about resale value (or what your friends think about you) maybe the Hyundai is a good bet for you. But for me, I like a known entity and there is just a subliminal stigma in my brain attached to Hyundais. I don't care how long their warranty is, anytime I see a new Hyundai I can't help but think about the used one I just saw with a cloud of blue smoke spewing out of the tailpipe, or the one I saw before that deserted on the side of the road.
BUT THE CARS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THAT SMALL LITTLE COUNTRY CALLED KOREA IN ASIA THESE DAYS ARE PUTTING OUT SOME WORLD CLASS CARS! I JUST CAN'T WAIT FOR THEM TO GO UPMARKET.
i think that the koreans can put some pressure on the japanese.
oftentimes i find the japanese cars to be over-priced or under-equipped or both.
korea is an economic powerhouse and the products that are coming out of that country are starting to reflect that.
give 'em some credit.
the beneficiaries will be us americans.
But this will change. A few years ago, few people would have considered a forum topic of "Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra." Not only are people beginning to ask this question, but as you can see many people actually would pick the Hyundai.
Around eight thousand Elantra's are being sold a month. A 100% sales increase over last year. Who is buying these vehicles? Sure some may be more of a credit risk. My neighbor with a Sonata lives in a 275 thousand dollar house. Another neighbor a few blocks away has two Elantra's in his driveway. I can easily afford an Accord, Camry or even a BMW 3 series. I don't drive everyday so I fail to see the need for a more expensive vehicle.
Isell_mitsus1, I'm willing to bet that within 5 years not only will you be seeing more Hyundai's during your travel's (including an SUV and a near luxury model this year) but few people will be looking at them with derision. Your name may just be isell_korean. :-)