Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

cebuano · April 2000

When you compare 3.27 with 3.55 you're talking about perhaps a 9-10% loss in gas mileage. Don't know if it's worth the extra acceleration - I've only driven a CV w/3.55 ratio - perhaps it's worthwhile in emergency situations . Oh well, it's not bad if you can get a free upgrade to a new model year.

cebuano · April 2000

From what I've seen in the Edmunds spread, in the current model year the speed rating seems to be the only tire difference between the different axle ratios in the hdlg/perf & non-hdlg/perf pkgs. You're looking at 225/60SR16 vs. 225/60TR16...same diameter/width.

tbear503 · April 2000

Hey i have a driver's door problem with my '99 MGM..give me some more details on your getting a replacem3ent CAR!..Thanks

mrf · April 2000

Actually the standard axle ratio in the CV and GM is 2.73. The handling and performance package has a 3.55 axle, which was increased from 3.27 for the '00 model year.

I have a '00 GM GS w/handling package, and so far am averaging around 22-23 mpg, 75% of which is highway. This may improve, as the car is barely broken in yet.

Anyway, I do have a question for the folks that know: what is the life expectancy of the rear air suspension? Has anyone had any major problems with it? Just wondering..

Thanx

kinley · April 2000

For what it's worth. Our 94 Towncar has 80,250 miles and the only parts we've replaced are the rear brake pads, coolant in the A/C, and tires. Not to worry about the air suspension and we often tow a 3500 lb boat/trlr. We are keeping this car until the Mercury Marauder appears.

bdavis8 · April 2000

My 99 cv does have a 3.27 axle. Not a 3.55. And does have the performance handling pkg. The 3.55 did not come on the 99. It is on the 2000. The door problem which caused ford to replace my vehicle was due to the drivers door not closing properly. This was due to a factory defect and could not be fixed without major repairs. The dealer tried to fix this problem 4 times without success. Ford did not want to admit that there was a problem, so I filed a Lemon law suit against ford, and won.

btroy · April 2000

For what it's worth, I have the 3.55 axle on my '96 police interceptor with 100K miles on it. I get a consistent 18 mpg. That's driving in town or commuting on the freeway in very heavy (often stop and go) traffic. I also get the same mileage pulling a 1000 pound trailer on the interstate. I think my regular highway mileage (no trailer) is about 22. I would think a newer, civilian car with the 3.55 would do at least as well, but probably a little better.

andor1 · April 2000

Any truth that the GM and CW will not be produced next year? I'm planning on buying either the GM or the CW around Sept. Oct. and am apprehensive about buying last make or model????

btroy · April 2000

I've read that Ford has committed to the union to keeping the production going through 2008. Maybe what you heard has to do with the fact that a redesign is in the works for the 2001 or 2002 model year. The new design will remain rear-wheel-drive. Of course, Ford may or may not do what it said it would do.

cebuano · April 2000

with GMC & Chrysler out of the traditional full size market, ford is now the exclusive supplier of many govt, police and taxi agencies. I don't think they would want to lose a niche like that. Of course if they chose to make only the commercial variety, we'd be out of luck finding a NEW CV in the future.

kinley · April 2000

With the advent of the Mercury Marauder next year, it appears the GM, CV, & TC will be around for quite a while. I'm very interested in replacing my TC with the Marauder.

bthomp · April 2000

I had a chance to ride in a 00 PI the other day. To tell you the truth, I think my 3.27 gears perform just as well. I really couldn't tell any difference. In fact, the Michigan State police reports don't show that much of an increase in the 0-60 sprint range either. The other thing to consider is that the civilian CV/GM seem to be arranged for more torque at lower rpm. My 98 CV seemed much quicker off the line than the 00 PI. The PI engine calibration is for higer rpm settings, that also includes the use of a smaller torque converter in the tranny. This allows the 4.6 to get more power out of the top end. But I always thought that in a race, equal horsepower, the engine that developed more torque won the race...

btroy · April 2000

Sorry to hear you got busted again. Hope you made bail ;-)

baltimore · April 2000

Can a person order the Police Interceptor model NEW (Year 2000, for example) thru a particular dealership??...just curious...I work in Washington D.C. collecting overdue rent from tenants and would like my car to be as "official" as it can get...

ktr1 · April 2000

I have a '95 CVLX. I bought it used in Dec. 1998 with 89k miles. It now was 113k and the air suspension has been fine throughout my time with it.

I love this car and want to run it into the ground, but have heard rumors that I want to check on -- someone I know who sells Fords told me that Ford will soon reserve the CV for fleet sales only. Personally, I saw his comments as a ploy to get me to buy from him -- sooner rather than later. As I went back through this topic and the previously archived one, I've seen much discussion about this rumor. If anyone has any new info, please enlighten me. If the CV will be beyond me anytime soon I need to know so I can start "working" on my wife to approve the purchase of a new car.

Thanks in advance for any info.

golfnut5 · April 2000

I recently purchased a 2000 GM, and so far I am a very pleased owner. I used to own a 1995 GM which I purchased new and put 131,000 miles on before trade. These two cars, although five years apart are virtually the same, however, listed below are the differences that I have noticed so far.

1. 2000 transmission is smoother with no shudder (95 had shudder between 40
& 45 mph).
2. 2000 seems to stay in overdrive longer at lower speeds than 1995 (I guess to
improve gas mileage).
3. 1995 had heated side mirrors, 2000 does not.
4. 1995 had button on inside drivers door to release fuel filler door, 2000 has
eliminated this and replaced with a plastic plug to fill hole next to trunk
release.
5. 1995 had carpet on under side of trunk lid, probably did not provide much
sound insulation, but was nice touch usually found on more expensive
automobiles.
6. 1995 full size spare option came with matching wheel, 2000 full size spare
option comes with black temporary wheel.
7. 1995 came with wheel lock key, 2000 has no wheel lock key (probably not
needed anyway).

You can see where the automakers cut corners to cut cost. If Ford saves $100 per vehicle and sells 100,000 units, Ford saves $10,000,000. I am sure that the Mercury folks thought noboby would notice or that 1995 GM owners are probably dead anyway (I am 41). Even with some of the above changes I still think the CV/GM are great cars for the money.

rea98d · April 2000

I don't think Ford sells the PI's to anyone other than law enforcement. For one thing, cops don't want bad guy running around in their hardware until they've had a chance to wear it out, but the main reason is that the Crown Vic is the only RWD cop car left, and Ford can barely crank out enough to satisfy the police departments, much less public demand. Although, I do like the blacked out taillights of the police interceptors.

allterrain · April 2000

Hiyall, I bought a "92 GM recently and have been very happy with the ride and also the fuel economy for such a large aotomobile. This is the first Mercury I have owned and I might add a creampuff for a "92 with 82k, (complete with the AARP sticker HA! HA!). However, driving home a week or so ago I encountered a serious engine miss. After taking it to one mechanic he told me he did not have the proper equipment to diagnose the problem and suggested I take it to the Ford Dealer. The Ford dealer where I live is Motor Inn in Spirit Lake Iowa. The told me that I needed new spark plug wires. They replaced them and they were right it has run fine since the repair. My problem is that they charged me $225 for this repair, I think this is robbery.......................................ANYON AGREE?????????????????????????

kinley · April 2000

they didn't charge you for replacing the old air in your tires with fresh air. Considering this bandit is a genuine Ford dealer, I'd share the work order/bill with the factory home office. Did they spend 5 hours diagnosing before R&R the eight plug wires? What does the dealer say to justify this bill?

btroy · April 2000

I think the wires run at a premium price of about $125, so that means they hit you with almost 2 hours of labor for that relatively simple repair. I think that's a bit high for both parts and labor, but not so high that they couldn't defend it to a judge in court. I can't say I'm all that surprised. What surprises me these days is when I get my car worked on and I DON'T get ripped off.

Next time I'd ask for an estimate ahead of time and when the ridiculous prices start flying, go to the parts store and do it yourself, or go to another shop. If you don't ask for a price before the work is done, they can basically charge you anything they want and there's almost nothing you can do about it at that point. Once a mechanic touches your car, he essentially owns it until you pay his bill in full, and he can sell it to pay off the bill if necessary, so you have no power at that point.

skeetz · April 2000

help, my dad recently passed away, leaving his beautiful 1992, dark blue Crown Victoria an orphan. I am not in a position to keep the car and must put it up for sale. I recall there is a something special about this car (engine wise). If anyone could spare a few minutes to share pertinent info about this car I would greatly appreciate it!

99crownvic · April 2000

Browsing this forum for the first time, I see several postings from people interested in driving police interceptors or look-alikes. I live in Philadelphia and decided to create my own PI-- because I like the utilitarian look and the behavioral impact it has on the scofflaw drivers we have in this city.
I started with a brand-new 99 Crown Vic standard model with the dual exhaust. Then I added the following functional modifications: a Superchips software-programmable engine control module which optimizes the ignition timing and fuel mixture for 92 octane gas; a 3.73 rear axle gear to replace the stock 3.27; a K&N air filter with the airbox snorkel removed; Bilstein gas-charged shock absorbers. Performance result: zero-to-60 in 8 seconds flat, approximate peak HP around 235 (up from stock 215); city MPG around 15; highway MPG around 20; suspension feel is very taut but not harsh; RPMs at 65 MPH cruising still feels relaxed despite the lower rear axle ratio. The mechanic programmed the Superchip for a top-speed engine cutoff at 135 MPH (instead of the stock 115 MPH). I have not yet gotten around to changing the stock S-rated touring tires to V- or Z- rated tires. It passed the Pennsylvania emission test with flying colors. The factory warranty should not be adversely affected.
A few cosmetic changes round out the package: Light window tinting (not "gangster" tint). Steel wheels with center caps ordered from a Ford dealer. A black grille to replace the ugly stock chrome one (also ordered from the Ford dealer; it is listed in the parts catalog as "police/fleet application"). I lowered the rear suspension 1 inch by bending the air-ride position sensor bracket(ride quality is unchanged, but I had to re-aim the headlights). Also had installed a Unity door-mount utility spotlight (these are legal for civilian vehicles, but don't be shining it into other cars). An external cellular phone antenna and CB antenna are finishing touches.
Total cost for all these modifications: about $3500. The "road presence" cannot be beat.

kinley · April 2000

$3500 into a CV so you can be a "wannabe stater"? It would have cost less to graduate from the academy & the state would have provided you with the "package" including the education of how to drive such a vehicle. Stay in therapy.

lochbuie · April 2000

I am thinking of purchasing a 2000 Crown Vic, but need more information before making a decision about the Performance and Handling package. Consumer Guide says that there is no significant benefit but no appreciable deficit in ride quality; Edmunds says it's a worthwhile option. CG also says that the 215 HP engine shows no perceptible increase in performance over the 200 standard engine, but I suspect that their test is a holdover from prior to the change from a 3.27 to a 3.55 axle ratio on the optioned car (I think the base remains at 2.73). I am anxious not to trade the soft-riding long-distance cruising qualities of the car for another $850 out-of-pocket and no real performance or handling benefit. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has been able to compare 2000 models both with and without the Performance and Handling Package option. My Ford dealer has none with the option in stock, so I'd be ordering "blind", but I am well aware that this type of package can make a major difference in how the car is to live with, particularly on the ice-ravaged and poorly maintained roads of the Northeast.
Also, an academic question: what's the top speed of the standard car? 108 MPH?

99crownvic · April 2000

Appreciate kinley's pithy comments.
Actually, setting up the car was a lot of fun. The idea was inspired by the "Lounge Lizard" project car from the November 1998 issue of Car and Driver. Kenny Brown Peformance sells a supercharged cop car rendition of the Crown Vic. (There must be a market segment of people as eccentric as I). Mine looks very similar (and is also black); however I did not want to spend $5000+ on a supercharger. Check it out Kenny's creation at
http://www.kennybrown.com/panther.html
and at
http://www.kennybrown.com/crownvic.html

cebuano · April 2000

Oh well, I never drove the CV with standard suspension, but I feel that my 2000 CV LX with P/H pkg has a very smooth, quiet ride. I read so many reviews recommending that option that I decided ahead of time of get it. I didn't go into it "blindly" though, because the one and only CV available for a test drive at my local Ford dealer had the P/H pkg and it seemed OK to me. I don't regret getting it. I also like the looks of my cross-spoked aluminum wheels. My only gripe is that the full sized spare tire is mounted on a black steel wheel which would look bad if used in a 5-wheel rotation.

btroy · April 2000

99, I'm curious about your lowering of the rear suspension only. Doesn't that give your car a bit of a tail-dragging look with the rear lower, but the front at the original ride height? If I recall correctly, the Kenny Brown Lounge Lizard car you mentioned was lowered on both ends. How does it look?

I can't help thinking it's ironic that you are removing premium alloy wheels and replacing them with plain steel rims. A bunch of people do the opposite, but I've never heard of going that direction. How about sending your take-offs to me?

yuryk · April 2000

I recently bought Crown Victoria, 99 LX (manufactured in March, 99).

It runs great, but gas mileage is about 16 in town, and not more than 21 on highway. Is anything wrong with this car, or such a mileage may be considered as normal?

I would appreciate your replies to yuryk@cucor.com

Yury

bthomp · April 2000

BTroy: No...I was in the front seat:-)
99crownvic: The C+D Lounge Lizard project replaced their front springs with the P71 ones before lowering the rear. Did you cut your front springs or get P71 parts? If so...where?
I am very interested in doing the spring and shock swap. The 00P71 I just rode in was very nice. Not harsh at all at low city speeds, yet very tight at 1**mph. I'm continually amazed that these guys run up over curbs on a daily basis and then go on a high speed run...try that with a standard performance car. The officer mentioned something about the 00PI having a different engine...as far as I know they haven't put the DOHC engine in there yet...anyone?

99crownvic · April 2000

btroy and bthomp:
I never did like the laced-spoke alloy wheels that came with the car. They collected a lot of dirt and brake dust within a few miles and were hard to clean. I know some people like those alloys, but I thought they were ugly. I ended up selling the alloys on eBay.com to a guy in Wisconsin who paid me $450 plus the shipping. When my current tires wear out, I intend to replace them with 235/60/R16 rubber which will fill up the wheel wells a bit more, although it will also throw off the speedometer calibration a tad.
Regarding springs: I left the front springs stock (meaning the ones that came with the 41G handling package). With the Bilstein shocks, the ride is plenty firm. The sway bars are also stock 41G. Stiffer springs (or cut-down springs) in combination with the Bilsteins I believe would have made the ride harsh and begun to induce body rattles and squeaks. In fact, with the stiffer shocks I notice the body will make flexing noises (creaking) on an abrupt undulating dip in the road. I would have preferred the reinforced frame of the true PI (or the welded-on tubular reinforcements of the Kenny Brown Lizard). But I could not justify the $$ outlay with my style of driving.
About the 1 inch rear drop: Indeed the car has a tail-down attitude. But if you look carefully at a real PI, they also have drooping tails. I think it actually gives the car an aggressive look, as if it is squatting down, ready to spring into motion. (To me, a nose-down/tail-up car looks like it's stopping under braking.) The real PI uses coil springs in the rear instead of air bags. I like the load-leveling feature of the air-ride.
I think my car strikes a much better handling/comfort balance than the real PI. Plus the Superchips/K&N/3.73axle combo actually makes mine a bit faster--though admittedly I have not put that to the test d;-)

stoots · April 2000

You guys seem to be more knowledgeable than the dealers, so perhaps you can help me out. I'm looking for a 98 GM and want the traction control option. I saw a 98 that I liked, sent an e-mail asking if it had traction control, and the dealer responded that it did not. A few days later I got another reply from him saying that they had found a button in the glove box that said traction control, so now he says it has ABS and traction control. I know very little about the Grand Marquis & nothing about the traction control feature, but isn't it pretty weird to have the button in the glove box? Is this just the shut-off? Do all of the 98s have this button, whether or not they actually have traction control installed? Have any of you used it in snowy weather?
Thank you!!

wnichols · April 2000

Yes, the button is in the glove box, which is inconvenient. This is the way to turn off the traction control. My 99 GM does not have traction control or ABS (I ordered it from the factory that way) and I've been happy through the past two MN winters. I recommend the p/h package as well.

99crownvic · April 2000

stoots:
That GM does indeed have traction control, and also ABS.
For the 1998 Crown Vic and Marquis the traction control and ABS brakes were only sold as a bundled option. For the 1999 model year (the year I bought my Vic) the traction control was sold separately, and ABS was standard equipment. I opted not to get traction control on mine.
The button in the glove box on the 1998 is to temporarily deactivate the traction control. If you shut the motor off and crank up again, the traction control will be on again.
The only driving experience I have had with traction control on a Ford panther platform vehicle was when I drove a rented Town Car in southern California. No snow, of course. There was a light on the dashboard that illuminated for a few seconds whenever the system activated in response to wheelspin. I noticed it was very sensitive to even minute amounts of wheelspin, and would kick in if you were accelerating out of a driveway where there was some gravel or sand on the pavement. I do not know whether that TownCar also had a limited slip rear axle.
I have read in magazines that the traction control might slightly decrease the responsiveness of the car in spirited dry-pavement driving, especially in combination with an open differential; however, it should help in the wet or snow or ice.
I would think that traction control (which retards the spark and also cuts the throttle) might be best when combined with a limited slip differential. I believe they are sold separately.
You should check to see if the 98 GM you are considering also has a limited slip differential. If the dealer is not sure, ask him to put the car on the lift with the transmission in park and the parking brake off. Turn one of the rear wheels with your hands. If the other wheel turns in the opposite direction, you have an open (i.e. not limited slip) differential.
Here's a question for the group: is the traction control sophisticated enough to actually apply the brake unilaterally to a spinning wheel in addition to just cutting power(like the Mercedes system or the Cadillac Stabili-Track does)? I don't know the answer.

btroy · April 2000

BThomp, are you sure the Crown Vic TCS is capable of applying a single rear brake instead of both at the same time? The '96 version cannot do that since it is based on a 3-channel ABS system instead of a 4-channel system. I know the '98+ TCS is more sophisticated, but I have looked for documentation of that particular enhancement and haven't seen a mention of it in the literature that I've read. I'm curious, too.

Regarding the combination of LSD with TCS (sounds like a drug cocktail), these are offered as mutually exclusive options, so you won't see them together on a CV unless the LSD was added as an aftermarket upgrade, which I would consider highly unlikely unless the car was previously owned by 99crownvic ;-)

bthomp · April 2000

Dammit, now I'll have to look!:-) I always assumed that they would only pulse one side, n' never been at the back end of my own car when it engaged I never noticed. Time to crack the tech manual AGAIN! What's interesting is that my service manual has a section on Trac-Lock rear axles...yet I believe that in 98, both ABS and TCS weren't available individually. The other thing I noticed the other day was that when I had TCS disengaged, I ran over a large highway heave and it felt like the high speed TCS kicked in. The car had a throttle back sort of feeling. ????

btroy · April 2000

About the loss of power - I wonder if you felt that because one of your rear tires left the ground momentarily when you rolled over the heave and it was really just a loss of traction.

roliver2 · April 2000

Hello all, I am looking for a used GM (or CV) for a 2nd car. I noticed edmunds shows the 95 with a much lower reliability rating than either the 94 or 96 model. Can any one explain this?

stoots · April 2000

Thanks for your help, guys - I really appreciate it!I'm off to the dealership to check it out ...

bthomp · April 2000

The ABS system on the 99P71 is a 4 channel system. I am assuming that the 98 is the same. I do not know what mechanical systems had to be "divorced" during the change from offering the ABS w/o TCS. There was a change back from the electronic to mechanical variable power steering system from 98 and 99 at least on the P71. Has anyone heard about the steering gear differences between P71 and P74?

btroy · April 2000

BThomp, thanks for the info on the TCS. I have experimented with the TCS on both '96 and '98 models, and the 98+ version seems vastly better (the '96 version seems lame). I'd bet it's due to the 4-channel set-up that allows single-wheel braking. I'd say Ford built it right.

I don't know any of the technical specifics about the police steering gear, except that it's described as providing "enhanced road feel" in the owner's manual.

macarthur2 · April 2000

I drove both of these cars, not once, twice, but three separate times trying to deceide. I finally bought a LeSabre Custom with Leather, Prestige Pkg, high zoot AM/FM/Cassette/CD, and the 16 inch tire package (not grand touring suspension). Recent 1000 mile road trip was great, the car is a little firmer for a Buick but most newer cars have become firmer riding the past few years. It averaged 30.1 mpg at 75mph on the interstate. The Grand Marquis V8 is great and has a great reputation but the Buicks 3800 has been around about as long and is also one of the most reliable engines on the market. Buicks V6 actually is rated at 205hp verses the V8's 200hp. The V8 wins in torque. Popular Mechanics recently tested a LeSabre at 7.9 seconds to 60mph so it is no slouch. I love the Buick but the decision was a tough one between these two. You just have to drive them. Buick was more willing to deal in this area (OKC) and I bought my LeSabre which stickered at $27340 for $24340 ---that is $500 below dealer invoice. If you are thinking about the grand touring package on the Buick drive it first, some find it jiggly and too firm around town. I usually think of a big luxury car riding nicely and Buick has gotten rid of the float and wallow and still left a very pleasing ride. Try them both and keep us posted.

mrf · April 2000

Before I bought my Grand Marquis, I tried the LeSabre also. I will admit a strong anti-General Motors bias upfront that is derived from several POS GM products I purchased in the 1980's..one of which was a 1985 Buick Century. I also had a look at the Chrysler Concorde... lously visibility, reliability is a big question mark and road noise to rival the best that Honda can do..:)

The Lesabre was nice, and it definitely wins in the gas mileage department, but after years of unit body, front wheel drive vehicles that includes a Buick, several Chryslers, Hondas and VW's I personally had had enough of that and appreciate a car that actually has a frame and is driven by the wheels that God intended

You don't know how much I DON'T miss torque steer.

That and the fact the the majority of LeSabres on the 2 Buick lots near me were stickerd out at close to or above 30k...that was just too much. My GM GS was stickered a bit over 25k and bought at 100 over invoice less a 1500 rebate...a true bargain for what you get. Also, the Buick sales idiot was surly at best, and I don't think took my interest in the LeSabre seriously since I'm 37 and not 65+ like most of their customers.

Anyway, best of luck with your LeSabre and happy motoring!

macarthur2 · April 2000

To each his own, little bigger, little smaller, front drive, rear drive, sooooper sooooft, or firmer, each has his/her own taste. That's why the best advice is to pick two or three cars then drive them until you find the one that suits your fancy. Happy motoring.

kingfishgus · April 2000

I have a 92 LeSabre and a 93 GM I bought new. They are so close to the current models I believe I can make a good comparison although there are some differences over the years. The fact that they haven't changed are a good testament to how good they are.
The Buick will develop a typical mushy feel to the suspension. The engine is noisier, and various plastic chrome parts in the interior will begin to peel. The seats will begin to get soft and you can feel the rails beneath. With 4 people it will drag it's rear or bottom out unless you have a high end ride height control. The valves are noisy and mine had several electrical relay problems.
The GM had brake rotor warp problems which are fixed by the 1998 larger brakes they are now using. The GM rides firmer, but doesn't sag under weight of people or luggage. The ride has been consistent througout the 100K miles I've put on it. The Buick gets mushier as you go. The Buick gets 29mpg, the GM 27. The buicks transmission has needed rebuilding before 100K, the Merc needs the trans oil changed every 30K miles to keep it from shuddering.
Next car will be a GM, although I really haven't had alot of "problems" with the Buick, it just doesn't hold it's driving characteristics or ride quality throughout it's like like a GM. I also like the safety factor of the GM being a 5 star, and mine was cruched once, and I was indeed inpressed with how much of a lick it took for teh condition it was in.

btroy · April 2000

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your ownership experience. This isn't really a "LeSabre vs. CV/GM" topic, but as long as it seems to be the current subject...

I beleive the current LeSabre was recently crash tested by NHSTA and scored impressively as well as the CV/GM. I also believe the LeSabre offers a safety feature the CV/GM does not: side impact air bags. Although they look smallish and lack any head protection.

The car looks great on paper, and it certainly is popular, but I blieve Consumer Reports dinged it in some way. I can't remember the details, but I think it was on reliability, and maybe seat comfort. CR still recommends the CV/GM.

I'd say the LeSabre is a close match for CV/GM. It's probably good for both to have some close competition. I'd bet the Lesabre's graceful lines appeal to more people, which may a primary reason it's the best selling full sized sedan. I certainly didn't buy my CV based on good looks, but it's one of the most important considerations for most buyers.

prodigalson · April 2000

I will be moving to the Chicago area after having spent a decade abroad. After a lot of Internet research, I have just about decided the Crown Vic is what I want to come home to. I wonder if anyone could give me some feedback on the following questions:

1. Is there any particular dealer in the Chicago area (I'll be in Lombard, about 20 miles west of Chicago) that gives solid service? Any I should avoid?

2. Are Crown Vics used by local police or State troopers in Illinois? If so, are there any particular colors used by law enforcement?

3. How can one tastefully tint windows? I understand there is something called "gangsta tint"??? How can I avoid looking like either a gangster or one of Illinois's finest? (I have to admit, however, that some CV police cars I've seen look very sharp.)

4. How long will I have to wait for the 2001 CVs to roll out of the great white north?

Thanks a zillion.

btroy · April 2000

Welcome back! I think you will love your new CV. I can't answer all of your questions, but the gangster tint is just any really dark tint job. The kind where you can't see into the vehicle from outside (like a limo). Or there are also other wierd ones like ones that are darker at the top than at the bottom, or that appear mirrored or sparkly from the outside. Stay away from that junk. You can get a relatively light or medium tint in a grey or brownish color that can look classy. Have it done by a reputable shop and get a high-quality, metallic film. To a great extent, you only get what you pay for.

I'm not sure what color all the local cops use, but a little further out in the western suburb of Schaumburg, where I visit occasionally, I believe they drive white Crown Vics. That is a relatively common color for police agencies throughout the country, especially those in small cities or towns. The other colors won't look especially cop-like expept maybe black or whatever your town's police use. My personal favorite is silver metallic.

The 2001 CV's? That's the $64 question. Usually they come out around September or October, depending on production and shipping delays. Sometimes there's an early introduction. Count on having a few to choose from in September, and plenty by November. I don't think even Ford can give a better estimate than that. The big question in my mind is whether it'll be a new style for 2001 or if it will wait until 2002 as some say.

btroy · April 2000

I noticed 3 new Crown Vic Police Interceptors being delivered to the NC Highway Patrol this morning. I pulled up next to them at a stop light. I noticed the window sticker didn't say "Crown Victoria," but instead just said "Police." It had the EPA estimated mileage on it listed as 16/21. That's a little lower than the regular CV which I believe is listed as 17/24.

One question I have is whether all civillian CV's get the same EPA numbers, or if they have a different one for the P&H cars. I think the sticker reads the same, doesn't it? If so, I would think the P&H cars would really be rated similar to the Police version if they were actually tested by EPA with that option, since both have the same rear axle ratio. I don't think there are other significant differences with the PI that would affect it's numbers in the EPA test relative to civillain CVs. Police cars do have a slightly higher idle speed, but this shouldn't affect the test much becasuse I think the test just includes driving.

This is just an FYI for those who have asked about mileage with the P&H package. I would expect about 1 to 3 fewer MPG.

macarthur2 · April 2000

Good report but your LeSabre and Ford are of the old build. The new, restyled LeSabre is a totally new vehicle, even different wheel base than the 99. There really is no comparison. All LeSabres have self leveling rear suspension. It is a great deal more solid, quieter, and not a wallowing floater any more. And as pointed out the LeSabre has been the best selling full sized car for eight consecutive years--must be a reason.
I would love to see FMC update the styling of the full size Ford/Merc. It needs a little more than a face lift (The Grand Marq is handsome however) but it missed out for a decade. Come on Ford do something.
My main recommendation is drive a NEW model of both of these cars there have been major improvements on both since the early 90's. Happy motoring.

kinley · April 2000

difference between the CV/GM and the LS is the engine/drive line. IMO the CV/GM has more bang for the buck. (OHC V8 4.6) vs VIH V6 3.8 and the Fords have REAR wheel drive. Why do the Indy cars have REAR wheel drive? Question: Is design and cosmetic more valuable than mechanics to the market?

Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

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